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Posted: 8/3/2017 2:03:51 PM EDT
Hello again, homebrewing forum,

Executive Summary (TL;DR):
1. Without gravity measurements, how do I know when the time is right to bottle my mead?
2. Is aging in a corked bottle equivalent to aging in a secondary/tertiary, or are they completely different?
3. Are there any good books specifically about wine/mead making for beginners?

Background: I have followed this recipe (more or less) and its cheaper, easier cousin to make 3 1-gallon batches of mead so far. Batch I and Batch II are about a month into their secondaries; Batch III is a few days from racking into its secondary.

(Other batches: 2 gallons of awful cider - so bad it gave me a headache before it got me drunk, but i muddled through; 1 gallon of better-planned cider that'll be at 2 weeks in primary in a few days, whereupon i'll let it sit a bit and mellow out for a couple months)

Fermentation conditions are not ideal: it's been getting 80-85*F in my apartment during the weekdays during the summer. I lucked into a heat tolerant yeast for Batch I (red star pasteur blanc), II just used some janky grocery store yeast, and I specifically chose a heat-tolerant yeast for Batch III (red star premiere cuvee). At some point I'll get a cooler deep enough to accommodate a 1gal carboy with an airlock on, then I'll work on controlling my temperatures better.

Because I keeps my clown shoes strapped on tight, I didn't take starting specific gravity measurements for any of my mead batches.

The Current Plan: Based on some half-assed reading of recipes and poking around, my current plan is for meads to be 1-3 weeks in primary, until bubbling becomes very slow. Then a quick taste while transferring to their secondaries to make sure they're not rotten garbage, and a minimum of 2 months in secondary. After that things get hazy:

Questions:
1. Given that I don't have specific gravity measurements, how do I know when I should bottle them? Recipes and sites seem to suggest that the longer you let them sit in the secondary (or tertiary, fourth-erary, etc.) the better. The recipe I used says start at six months and go. Some sources say a year+. Do I just keep tasting it, and when I figure it's pretty close it all goes in the bottles and gets put up for another six months?
   
1a. For that matter, would I know when to bottle if I had starting SG measurements?
   
2. I've read that corked bottles allow a very small amount of gas exchange to go on during bottle aging, sort of like the airlock on a slow late-stage fermentation. Are latter stages of fermentation at all interchangeable with bottle aging, or are they totally separate stages and concepts and ne'er the twain shall meet?
   
3. Can y'all recommend any books about beginner meadmaking (or, failing that, winemaking)? I've been needling my brother with questions, but he's mostly into brewing beer, and most of his books seem geared toward that as well.
Thanks very much for your time!
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 2:40:41 PM EDT
[#1]
A homebrew shop should have answers to your question, and some books. Do you have one in your area? Mine has been a great help.

I have never made a mead, but I am going to.

If you are making a wine, you will also need to consider deactivating your yeast, and degassing your mead. Otherwise, it will continue to ferment in your bottles, possibly pushing out the cork or breaking the bottle. Also, possibly using a clearing agent, like issinglass. These are standard for making grape wines.


And, like wine, you bottle the mead when it is totally, totally clear. I believe a lot of mead makers do multiple rackings to remove most of the yeast, maybe enough so that fermentaion is minimal.

That's all I think I know.


ETA. There are also youtube videos.
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 3:41:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A homebrew shop should have answers to your question, and some books. Do you have one in your area? Mine has been a great help.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
A homebrew shop should have answers to your question, and some books. Do you have one in your area? Mine has been a great help.
Thanks, Scott!

There's an "American Brewmaster" not far away. The guys there have helped me out a couple times, but they're more beer-focused, and it's far away and I feel like a dork when i go in and ask them a bunch of questions.

I could use some books - based on what I'm seeing on forums and stuff, books about winemaking seem like they'd be more appropriate than books on beer, but I'm not sure who to trust, yet.

The forums I've been looking at seem to suggest that bottle conditioning (as long as the seal is semipermeable, like a natural cork) and secondary fermentation are similar in purpose and duration for aging, but people say "bulk aging" (in the fermenter) is better because the results will be the same across all the bottles, and when it's in a carboy, you can check on it whenever you want and see how it's doing.

So I guess what I'll probably do is let them sit in the carboy for the duration until I think they're decent enough to drink, and only THEN put them in bottles, and probably sit on them for at least a couple more months before I start inflicting them on friends and wellwishers.

Along the way I've read a little more about all the stuff I've been doing wrong (apparently you're supposed to aerate/oxygenate wines a bunch during their primary, until the yeast have eaten 1/3ish of the available sugar. whoops!). I'm standing here at work rearranging my apartment in my head to make room for more carboys.

If you are making a wine, you will also need to consider deactivating your yeast, and degassing your mead. Otherwise, it will continue to ferment in your bottles, possibly pushing out the cork or breaking the bottle. Also, possibly using a clearing agent, like issinglass. These are standard for making grape wines.

And, like wine, you bottle the mead when it is totally, totally clear. I believe a lot of mead makers do multiple rackings to remove most of the yeast, maybe enough so that fermentaion is minimal.

That's all I think I know.
That's a good point. They're all in 1-gallon carboys, so I can cap them and shake the hell out of them to force most of the CO2 out of solution before bottling the still stuff, and I'll make sure I bottle the sparkling stuff only in bottles meant for it.

I'll look into clearing agents. Some of the recipes I've looked at mention racking the mead 2 or 3 or 4 times to clear them out -- the first rack on Batches I and II cleared them up quite a lot. The thing that sucks about doing it over and over is that these are only one gallon batches, so if I move them too many more times, there won't be much mead left, haha.

ETA. There are also youtube videos.
Ooh, I haven't even been looking at youtube. Good idea, thanks!
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 4:12:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Please dont YouTube...it's like trying to learn how to shoot a pistol by watching YouTube.

Head over to wine making talk or home brew forums to get the right answers.  Nothing like making 2 gallons of screaming headache to dampen your enthusiasm on this hobby.

P S.  Im a home winemaker, but no Mead.
Link Posted: 8/4/2017 5:48:21 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Nothing like making 2 gallons of screaming headache to dampen your enthusiasm on this hobby.
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Quoted:
Nothing like making 2 gallons of screaming headache to dampen your enthusiasm on this hobby.
Ahead of you on that count - made two gallons of awful cider, bottled them (in plastic 2L bottles, naturally) right out of the primary, and drank them as soon as the yeasts put a little bit of CO2 in them. That stuff was ba-a-a-ad.

I'll be a lot more bummed out if my first few batches of mead turn out awful, but I'm trying to keep my expectations low and trying to learn as much as i can from my first few little batches.

P S.  Im a home winemaker, but no Mead.
Are there any books you recommend? I'll definitely check out Wine Making Talk and the Home Brew Forums. Thanks very much for your help!
Link Posted: 8/5/2017 11:43:44 AM EDT
[#5]
Fora list of books, check amazon.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 2:09:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Hello again, homebrewing forum,

Executive Summary (TL;DR):
1. Without gravity measurements, how do I know when the time is right to bottle my mead?
2. Is aging in a corked bottle equivalent to aging in a secondary/tertiary, or are they completely different?
3. Are there any good books specifically about wine/mead making for beginners?
View Quote


1) First off, you should get a hydrometer. Why not? The last one I got was $6 and you also need a graduated cylinder or thief.

Besides, that you want it to clear.
2) Not completely different. The main reason people transfer from one fermentation vessel to the next it to clarify, you are getting most of the liquid away from the yeast and sediment. But they call that "bulk aging" in the carboy, bottle aging happens slower.

3) Yes Ken Schramm wrote a book
"The Compleat Meadmaker: Home Production of Honey Wine From Your First Batch to Award-winning Fruit and Herb Variations"

Honestly start here:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=429241
You'll make way better mead in a much shorter time than traditional methods. Trust me.
Link Posted: 8/7/2017 2:48:17 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
1) First off, you should get a hydrometer. Why not? The last one I got was $6 and you also need a graduated cylinder or thief.
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Quoted:
1) First off, you should get a hydrometer. Why not? The last one I got was $6 and you also need a graduated cylinder or thief.
Got one. Gonna get a refractometer, too (it seems a lot easier to use, and requires the same amount of math). I just didn't have at the time when I was making Batches I, II; and I forgot to take a starting measurement when I put up Batch III.

2) Not completely different. The main reason people transfer from one fermentation vessel to the next it to clarify, you are getting most of the liquid away from the yeast and sediment. But they call that "bulk aging" in the carboy, bottle aging happens slower.

3) Yes Ken Schramm wrote a book
"The Compleat Meadmaker: Home Production of Honey Wine From Your First Batch to Award-winning Fruit and Herb Variations"
Honestly start here:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=429241
You'll make way better mead in a much shorter time than traditional methods. Trust me.
Awesome! I went ahead and bought the book, and I'll start reading it soon. I'll check out that recipe - I just got a new carboy in the mail that I need to rack my cider into (that stuff makes miles of sediment! dang!), and I just emptied my brew bucket...

Crap. I might have to order the stuff for this and make it this weekend.

Thanks very much for your advice, djkest!
Link Posted: 8/8/2017 12:45:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Cool, let us know how it goes. I am getting ready to start entering my meads into competition!

ETA: I should mention I got all the chemicals from MoreBeer, and I got the medium or large size so I could make at least 20 batches haha.
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 10:35:32 AM EDT
[#9]
1. you can taste test for sweetness,

IMO you don't need the measurements if you are working form a recipe.

2.
aging in the bottle will have more sediment in the bottle-not enough to matter but if you want clear leave it in the fermentor.

3. I would go to a brew club and talk to multiple people-there is not "correct" way.


I make mead this way: boil to sanitize ingredients, forget about it for a few months.

No need for secondary, fussing or farting with it.  

IMO your overthinking it because the internet has so many opinions you get lost in all of it.
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 2:12:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1. you can taste test for sweetness,

IMO you don't need the measurements if you are working form a recipe.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1. you can taste test for sweetness,

IMO you don't need the measurements if you are working form a recipe.
My takeaway from this is "when it tastes about right, put it in bottles and then sit on it a while". I know two of my batches are meant to be kinda sweet, and one is meant to be pretty dry. Do I need to terminate the fermentation of the sweet ones before bottling, or at that point is continued fermentation not just a matter of leftover sugar?

3. I would go to a brew club and talk to multiple people-there is not "correct" way.

I make mead this way: boil to sanitize ingredients, forget about it for a few months.
That's the impression I'm getting from some people on other non-mead-specific forums, haha. Lots of people saying "the best mead i ever made was the batch i forgot about in my basement for a year"

IMO your overthinking it because the internet has so many opinions you get lost in all of it.
Now that's for darn sure. I got all the gear (and some raspberries!) for my next batch, but I think I'm gonna hold off until I'm done reading a couple of my books before I start it.

Thanks very much for your advice, TaylorWSO!
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 11:50:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
1. you can taste test for sweetness,

IMO you don't need the measurements if you are working form a recipe.

2.
aging in the bottle will have more sediment in the bottle-not enough to matter but if you want clear leave it in the fermentor.

3. I would go to a brew club and talk to multiple people-there is not "correct" way.


I make mead this way: boil to sanitize ingredients, forget about it for a few months.

No need for secondary, fussing or farting with it.  

IMO your overthinking it because the internet has so many opinions you get lost in all of it.
View Quote
If you boil your honey you might as well just use sugar and artificial honey flavoring, because you're losing all the subtleties of the honey flavor.
Sure, it'll make mead. But it's better if you take some extra time.

Also ANY mazer will tell you that nutrient additions are helpful to make better tasting mead. Sure, you can make it without adding nutrients, but it simply won't be as good.

Why purchase expensive ingredients and waste your time to make something mediocre?
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 2:16:44 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
If you boil your honey you might as well just use sugar and artificial honey flavoring, because you're losing all the subtleties of the honey flavor.
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It will kill the enzymes/known bacteria, hardly affect taste as long as you don't hard boil it.

I keep bees and know a little bit about honey.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 2:32:02 PM EDT
[#13]
You only need to know the starting gravity if you're interested in computing alcohol percentage. Get a hydrometer and take measurements a week apart. When they don't change, the fermentation is complete.

Refractometers are slightly easier to use, however they are affected by the presence of alcohol. They're most useful when you're doing all-grain brewing and want to check the gravity before fermentation.

Using a refractometer requires even more math.


In the presence of alcohol, refractometer measurements get even more complicated. Alcohol throws off the refraction even more. The good news is, it can be corrected for if the OG is known. Sean Terrill posted research on the subject and arrived at the following equation which we have taken to be the most accurate:

FG = 1.0000 – 0.0044993*RIi + 0.011774*RIf + 0.00027581*RIi² – 0.0012717*RIf² – 0.0000072800*RIi³ + 0.000063293*RIf³
View Quote
https://www.brewersfriend.com/2013/04/24/using-your-refractometer-correctly-for-maximum-accuracy-in-home-brewing/
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 3:43:57 PM EDT
[#14]
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Truly, there is no hobby that cannot be improved by the implementation of a relevant spreadsheet calculator.

Thanks for the links, phurba! I gave a couple of them a quick once-over at work, and I've bookmarked them for further reading.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 4:08:07 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Truly, there is no hobby that cannot be improved by the implementation of a relevant spreadsheet calculator.

Thanks for the links, phurba! I gave a couple of them a quick once-over at work, and I've bookmarked them for further reading.
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Quoted:
Truly, there is no hobby that cannot be improved by the implementation of a relevant spreadsheet calculator.

Thanks for the links, phurba! I gave a couple of them a quick once-over at work, and I've bookmarked them for further reading.
Also, depending on the yeast you used, it might dry out the mead more than you want. In which case you'll need to sulfite it to kill off the yeast. Which is fine if you're doing a still mead but if you want sparkling, at that point you can either wait for the SO2 to dissipate and then add more yeast and sugar, or force carbonate it using CO2.

Sulfiting it will also keep it a lot more stable so you can age it longer. You mentioned a headache-inducing batch - did you add tannins either in the form of tannic acid powder or a cup of black tea? Either way, you can clean up some of the headache-inducing short chain tannins with sulfite while still leaving some tannin character in the final product.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 5:21:40 PM EDT
[#16]
I know a couple mead guys.  They wait as long as painfully possible.  They re-rack a few times.  They are looking mainly for complete clarity.  The stuff they make is pure magic. 
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 6:44:15 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
I know a couple mead guys.  They wait as long as painfully possible.  They re-rack a few times.  They are looking mainly for complete clarity.  The stuff they make is pure magic. 
View Quote
Yep, nothing like time to make mistakes go away.  I never bottle less than 6 months and sometimes a year.
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 1:13:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like OP is in a hurry. I don't even taste my meads until they 6 months old. No bottling for at least a year unless something special happens in the carboy....
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 12:13:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Sounds like OP is in a hurry. I don't even taste my meads until they 6 months old. No bottling for at least a year unless something special happens in the carboy....
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That's because your yeast are starving. I can make awesome meads that taste great after 1 month.  Read up on TOSNA. Honey lacks the nutrients to keep yeast healthy.
The guy who developed staggered nutrient additions (Kenn Schramm)  is a world-renowned meadmaker who sells bottles for up to $150 each so he knows a thing or two about quality. He literally wrote the book on meadmaking.

Also degassing the mead daily is good for your overall yeast health. Healthy yeast finish the mead faster and reduce by-products like fusel alcohols. I can take a sample of my 4-day old mead and it tastes delicious (sweet, obviously).  Still delicious at 7 days. Still good at 14 days.. etc.
Link Posted: 10/23/2017 7:29:10 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


That's because your yeast are starving. I can make awesome meads that taste great after 1 month.  Read up on TOSNA. Honey lacks the nutrients to keep yeast healthy.
The guy who developed staggered nutrient additions (Kenn Schramm)  is a world-renowned meadmaker who sells bottles for up to $150 each so he knows a thing or two about quality. He literally wrote the book on meadmaking.

Also degassing the mead daily is good for your overall yeast health. Healthy yeast finish the mead faster and reduce by-products like fusel alcohols. I can take a sample of my 4-day old mead and it tastes delicious (sweet, obviously).  Still delicious at 7 days. Still good at 14 days.. etc.
View Quote
I use yeast nutrient and energizer. I am stagger feeding a batch right now. Clarity and taste at least for me, still come with time. I do not claim to be an expert.
Link Posted: 10/24/2017 8:34:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Tag for later reading.
Mead is something i've been meaning to try
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