Smallest effective zombie round?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Smallest effective zombie round? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 3/7/2012 1:45:34 AM EDT

Whats the smallest round you would go with for zombie head shots?

Are zombie skulls as hard as humans? Harder? Softer? Is .22 to small?

Posted: 3/7/2012 1:51:26 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Whats the smallest round you would go with for zombie head shots?
-Me personally, 9mm.

Are zombie skulls as hard as humans? Harder? Softer?
-Dont see why they would be any harder or softer.

Is .22 to small?
-Some would say it's the perfect round. Personally, I would feel undergunned with a .22 vs a skull.

Posted: 3/7/2012 4:04:11 AM EDT

[#2]

.22lr is the perfect round for the undead at less than 100yards...
provided that its coming out of a rifle.

Posted: 3/7/2012 4:56:12 AM EDT

[#3]

22 is a good round and will give enough penetration for zed head shots. That being said, it is not the most reliable round out there.
If I was holding up someplace or needing to be quiet, my 22 suppressed would be a great option.
If I was on the move and my immediate survival depended on it, i would use another round (9, 45, 223)

Posted: 3/7/2012 6:20:14 AM EDT

[#4]

40mm

Posted: 3/7/2012 6:40:31 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
Whats the smallest round you would go with for zombie head shots?

Are zombie skulls as hard as humans? Harder? Softer? Is .22 to small?

Depends on the Zombies.... Sprinters something accurate and heavy, hit hips first then coup de gras. shamblers .22 would do.

Posted: 3/7/2012 6:56:08 AM EDT

[#6]

I don't know shit about the .17, but isn't it slightly more powerful then the .22?

Posted: 3/7/2012 9:34:28 AM EDT

[#7]

It goes faster and flatter, so it could actually be an awesome zed round. The only problem is there are not as many weapons chambered in it, esp pistols.
Same problem exists with the 5.7- actually could be the perfect anti zed/ anti human round, but it is very difficult to find weapons that fire it, not even to speak of ammo. You would have to have it prior to zpoc and have stocked up on ammo for it to effectively use it.

Posted: 3/7/2012 10:25:38 AM EDT

[#8]

22 magnum

and one of these suppressed !!!!

Posted: 3/7/2012 10:50:02 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
22 magnum

and one of these suppressed !!!!
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SHOT2010_pmr30_small.jpg

I can't find one locally at all.

Posted: 3/7/2012 11:54:42 AM EDT

[#10]

That Kel-Tec would be a great pistol and I'd love to have one, but unfortunately they've only made about seven of them so nobody has them for sale.

Posted: 3/7/2012 11:55:05 AM EDT

[#11]

The 2 smallest callibures would be 22 magnum or .17 hmr. The 22 long rifle round is just to small and slow to be reliable. There is a reason why people who hunt don't use the 22 for anything bigger than a raccoon.

Posted: 3/7/2012 12:32:22 PM EDT

[#12]

You can't get those pistols in NY because of the mag capacity.

Last time I looked into them though people were having lots of feeding issues, maybe they are trying to fix the problem.

Posted: 3/7/2012 12:37:19 PM EDT

[#13]

I'd want something reloadable.

When the Zeds are taken care of, I'd police the brass for reuse.

I've got plenty of everything else to loadem back up for a good long time.

Danny

Posted: 3/7/2012 4:13:49 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
22 magnum

and one of these suppressed !!!!
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SHOT2010_pmr30_small.jpg

I can't find one locally at all.

There is one for sale here on the EE

And they have fixed the issues but with all Keltec stuff they are so far behind in production of there products

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_88/966880_Kel_Tec_PMR_30_REDUCED_.html

Hickok45 testing it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ti9bs-7ES2M

Posted: 3/7/2012 11:49:22 PM EDT

[#15]

I prefer 5.7mm, but assuming none of the zombies chasing you are wearing helmets .22LR should work fine.

Posted: 3/8/2012 1:04:36 AM EDT

[#16]

45/70 FTMFW of course...

Posted: 3/8/2012 5:10:57 AM EDT

[#17]

Jeez, thats like using a tank as a flyswatter!

Posted: 3/8/2012 5:46:56 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
45/70 FTMFW of course...

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s248/miamidave101/2012-02-26_18-50-12_874.jpg

Nice

Posted: 3/8/2012 6:11:03 AM EDT

[#19]

I've seen deer killed with 22lr, head shot. I would think if a 22lr can kill a deer, a zombie shouldn't be a problem. Bigger target and I would think the human skull is a little thinner/weaker than a deer skull.

Posted: 3/8/2012 11:19:34 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I would think the human skull is a little thinner/weaker than a deer skull.

you'd be incorrect on that one...

Posted: 3/8/2012 11:32:35 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
22 magnum

and one of these suppressed !!!!
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SHOT2010_pmr30_small.jpg

.22 Magnum with VMAX bullets would be the smallest I'd consider.

The 5.7 with the 40gr VMAX would be a better option as it's not a rimfire.

Though honestly I prefer 9mm because some of the threats may be living, and those other two rounds are marginal on humans.

Posted: 3/8/2012 11:36:37 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
I've seen deer killed with 22lr, head shot. I would think if a 22lr can kill a deer, a zombie shouldn't be a problem..

Deer have smaller brains - those small bullets don't need to destroy as much to render the deer ineffective. People have taken .22LR to the head and remained functional - depends where in the head you hit. I'd imagine Zombies would be the same way. Hit the brain stem and they'll drop like a sack - hit the area of the brain devoted to speech or long term memory I doubt they'd notice.

Posted: 3/8/2012 4:44:31 PM EDT

[#23]

Maybe they would forget they are zombies?

Dammit, there goes my higher groos motor function!

Posted: 3/8/2012 4:57:24 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I would think the human skull is a little thinner/weaker than a deer skull.

you'd be incorrect on that one...

I cut out a rack from a 3 year old buck last year, and I kid you not the skull was nearly 2 inches thick in the front. He must have done a lot of fighting to develop that fat of a head.

Point being though, a mature deer has a thicker skull than a human does.

Behind the ears though, pretty thin. That must be why the poachers always aim for behind the ear.

Posted: 3/8/2012 6:18:46 PM EDT

[#25]

I cut out a rack from a 3 year old buck last year, and I kid you not the skull was nearly 2 inches thick in the front. He must have done a lot of fighting to develop that fat of a head.

Point being though, a mature deer has a thicker skull than a human does.

Behind the ears though, pretty thin. That must be why the poachers always aim for behind the ear.

I've handled both, and I'm sticking with my statement. And while I'll give you that the antler plate can be thick on a mature buck, 2"? I find it a little difficult to grasp. Maybe you were cutting at an angle? Either way, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Posted: 3/8/2012 6:21:50 PM EDT

[#26]

Deer have smaller brains - those small bullets don't need to destroy as much to render the deer ineffective. People have taken .22LR to the head and remained functional - depends where in the head you hit. I'd imagine Zombies would be the same way. Hit the brain stem and they'll drop like a sack - hit the area of the brain devoted to speech or long term memory I doubt they'd notice.

My experience has been a .22lr when shot into a skull does one of two things, either lodges in the skull cap, or penetrates one side then spins around inside the skull cap turning brains to mush as there isn't enough KE to penetrate the other side typically.

Posted: 3/8/2012 7:01:36 PM EDT

[#27]

I've autopsied enough humans to know that 22's have no problem entering the cranial vault. My only concern with humans (the zombie type) and 22s is that when you look at a human (face on) you are looking at alot more face than cranium. Hit the forehead (living or zombie) and you're 99.9% golden. Hit below that and the little 22 will have to penetrate facial bones and if it can penetrate far enough it may still have the misfortune of veering right or left and miss the lower portion of brain (cerebelum) and brain stem.

Lots of people have been capped in the head with 22s and lived. My step mom is one of them. She was shot at an angle and the bullet crossed her facial bones and never entered the cranial vault. But then guess what. The asshole that shot her thought she was dead and he turned the gun on himself and he's dead because he didn't miss HIS brain.

Dropping a zed with a 22 wont be as easy as just hitting them anywhere in the head. You will have to hit the top third of the head and keep it centered so there is no deflection. This won't be easy on a moving target. I've seen plenty of deflected rounds. The people still died because the rounds still made a "keyhole" in their skull and sent shards into the brain, but for a zombie I wouldn't count on incapacitation from this.

For slow shamblers a 22 rifle will be fantastic. Faster MOVING targets will be more difficult and less forgiving to non upper 1/3 and centered head shots.

Get some 22s and 5 thousand rounds of ammo. It won't cost you much at all. You could get all that for less than $500. But you really need some other major calibers on hand because until the SHTF you really won't know what caliber the situation will call for and Frankly normal humans scare me more than Zombies.

Posted: 3/8/2012 7:18:00 PM EDT

[#28]

12 ga w/ 00

Some of them sumbitches are fast.

Posted: 3/8/2012 7:51:09 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I've autopsied enough humans to know that 22's have no problem entering the cranial vault. My only concern with humans (the zombie type) and 22s is that when you look at a human (face on) you are looking at alot more face than cranium. Hit the forehead (living or zombie) and you're 99.9% golden. Hit below that and the little 22 will have to penetrate facial bones and if it can penetrate far enough it may still have the misfortune of veering right or left and miss the lower portion of brain (cerebelum) and brain stem.

good info, a lot more to learn from an autopsy then what we get on scene.

Posted: 3/8/2012 7:58:27 PM EDT

[#30]

I have a stock pile of 5.7 and a fn five seven with 5 mags ready for z-day, I think it is the most ideal zombie caliber. but like said before it a little expensive, but because few people use it it is almost always in stock. and when scars happen the the first obama scare it was cheaper than 45.

on the note of the pmr 30 it is an amazingly fun gun to shoot I wish there was a 17 hmr version

Posted: 3/8/2012 8:11:49 PM EDT

[#31]

How many people here carry a 22LR everyday for self defense?

Why would you want to carry a less effective defensive round when the world is ending?

Posted: 3/9/2012 7:05:51 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Why would you want to carry a less effective defensive round when the world is ending?

I think it's because they are expecting FAR FAR more targets, and the targets will be slow moving and require head shots.

The low cost, low noise, and low recoil of the .22 means you can stock and transport 1000s of rounds on your person, it's not so loud that every zombie in a mile will be drawn to you, and the low recoil allows for faster followup shots should you miss or have multiple targets.

That being said I perfer to stock up on larger calibers because the biggest threat will be the ones that are still alive.

Posted: 3/9/2012 5:15:08 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why would you want to carry a less effective defensive round when the world is ending?

I think it's because they are expecting FAR FAR more targets, and the targets will be slow moving and require head shots.

The low cost, low noise, and low recoil of the .22 means you can stock and transport 1000s of rounds on your person, it's not so loud that every zombie in a mile will be drawn to you, and the low recoil allows for faster followup shots should you miss or have multiple targets.

That being said I perfer to stock up on larger calibers because the biggest threat will be the ones that are still alive.

+1

Posted: 3/9/2012 7:03:43 PM EDT

[#34]

I'm of the opinion that when the world ends I'm gonna have fun with it. I want as much 223 as possible and look at the world as a giant prairie dog hunt.

Posted: 3/9/2012 10:41:53 PM EDT

[#35]

This has been hashed over and over in ad fin um.

If a .22 won't kill a person reliably what makes anyone think it will work effectively on a zed when most people not trained and under stress are lucky to hit even the body mass? I have seen a guy on drugs take (8) 9mm hits to the body and still fight back. They had to kill him with multiple large caliber rifle shots to the head.

I don't care about deer skulls or bear skulls or squirrels unless they are also zeds. I care about what is effective on human targets: BOTH zed and live because this will have to be addressed.

If you know of people using .22lr on deer I would point out that hunting rounds are limited to those above that of the .22lr for the very reason that they DON'T kill animals (except small game) effectively. Mostly it is poachers using those rounds for game as they can be easily carried and used and are not as noisy as other rounds. You CANNOT reload .22lr rounds and they do not store well for long periods. Sometimes they have duds. You want to bet your life and those you care about with that?

Posted: 3/10/2012 7:40:44 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
This has been hashed over and over in ad fin um.

If a .22 won't kill a person reliably what makes anyone think it will work effectively on a zed when most people not trained and under stress are lucky to hit even the body mass? I have seen a guy on drugs take (8) 9mm hits to the body and still fight back. They had to kill him with multiple large caliber rifle shots to the head.

I don't care about deer skulls or bear skulls or squirrels unless they are also zeds. I care about what is effective on human targets: BOTH zed and live because this will have to be addressed.

If you know of people using .22lr on deer I would point out that hunting rounds are limited to those above that of the .22lr for the very reason that they DON'T kill animals (except small game) effectively. Mostly it is poachers using those rounds for game as they can be easily carried and used and are not as noisy as other rounds. You CANNOT reload .22lr rounds and they do not store well for long periods. Sometimes they have duds. You want to bet your life and those you care about with that?

Exactly, hence my selection of 12 ga. Siaga 12 w/ multiple drum mags would be ideal. Or maybe one of those belt fed 12ga.

Posted: 3/10/2012 11:49:18 PM EDT

[#37]

I salute you and your boomstick sir....lol

Posted: 3/11/2012 11:01:22 AM EDT

[#38]

.22 LR can do fine assuming ocular window or open mouth hits at relatively close range.

Wildcat calibers have serious resupply issues assuming ZPAW.

Posted: 3/12/2012 10:36:34 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
12 ga w/ 00

Some of them sumbitches are fast.

+1

While I do have an AR, I don't plan on shooting a few shamblers out to 200+ meters. Might attract more. I don't need that.

I do have a .22lr, but it would more then likely be used to get some small game animals.

I have loads and loads of 00 buck for my 500. More damage and at a distance I might take out more then 1 if I'm lucky from the spread...depending on how closely bunched up them sumbitches are.

Posted: 3/12/2012 11:50:06 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
12 ga w/ 00

Some of them sumbitches are fast.

+1

While I do have an AR, I don't plan on shooting a few shamblers out to 200+ meters. Might attract more. I don't need that.

I do have a .22lr, but it would more then likely be used to get some small game animals.

I have loads and loads of 00 buck for my 500. More damage and at a distance I might take out more then 1 if I'm lucky from the spread...depending on how closely bunched up them sumbitches are.

00 Buck is awesome, but a shotgun has 3 major downfalls against it: capacity, load time and weight/size of ammo.

I can see a Saiga 12 being used with a drum to quicken load time and up the capacity over other shotguns, but its damn hard to justify the weight, especially when you're on the run.

I have several very nice shotguns at home and thats where they would stay.

EDIT: Thought it would be fun to do some quick weighing. The average loaded 30 round P-Mag weighs 1 pound. The average loaded 20 round MD Arms Saiga drum weighs 4 pounds. 120 rounds of 223 vs 20 rounds of 00 buck.

I didnt include 22LR since i wouldnt use it for a defensive situation. I do own 2 CMMG conversions for my AR's and carry them in BOB's with a couple hundred rounds of Stinger, but more for small game.

Posted: 3/12/2012 5:12:09 PM EDT

[#41]

Well, I dont know if it would be viable for a human defensive round, but as a zed it should work wonders;
I picked up a box of the 60 grn Augila 22SSS today, ran it thru my AR conversion.
Holy s&*( is that quiet!!!! I was hitting bowling pins at 100 yrd, no hearing pro!
The damn cycling of the bolt made more noise than the round! I know what I am stocking up on!

Posted: 3/13/2012 2:35:04 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
12 ga w/ 00

Some of them sumbitches are fast.

+1

While I do have an AR, I don't plan on shooting a few shamblers out to 200+ meters. Might attract more. I don't need that.

I do have a .22lr, but it would more then likely be used to get some small game animals.

I have loads and loads of 00 buck for my 500. More damage and at a distance I might take out more then 1 if I'm lucky from the spread...depending on how closely bunched up them sumbitches are.

00 Buck is awesome, but a shotgun has 3 major downfalls against it: capacity, load time and weight/size of ammo.

I can see a Saiga 12 being used with a drum to quicken load time and up the capacity over other shotguns, but its damn hard to justify the weight, especially when you're on the run.

I have several very nice shotguns at home and thats where they would stay.

EDIT: Thought it would be fun to do some quick weighing. The average loaded 30 round P-Mag weighs 1 pound. The average loaded 20 round MD Arms Saiga drum weighs 4 pounds. 120 rounds of 223 vs 20 rounds of 00 buck.

I didnt include 22LR since i wouldnt use it for a defensive situation. I do own 2 CMMG conversions for my AR's and carry them in BOB's with a couple hundred rounds of Stinger, but more for small game.

I guess we would need to divide this into two categories. First, bug out and move. Second, hold the fort.

For the first, if I had to pick one weapon it would be a AR SBR in .223 or the mobility and load weight restrictions mentioned above.

For the second, 12 ga. Once the shooting starts more will come and engagement will most likely be close and fast.You would want to be positioned at the same elevation as the zeds but behind a good barricade. Being on the same level will proved the most effective trajectories through dispersed targets. It's called grazing fire. Aim all your shots at head level and the pellets that don't hit the target you are shooting at have a change of finding another behind.

Posted: 3/14/2012 5:17:47 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
.For the second, 12 ga. Once the shooting starts more will come and engagement will most likely be close

It will have to be - you're using a shotgun.

and fast.

So you choose a weapon with one of the smallest magazines, slowest magazine to reload, AND has heavy recoil slowing down your next shot?

Fast shooting should be from a large capacity, quick to reload, low recoiling firearm - 5.56, 5.45, 5.7 are all good choices in that regard.

You would want to be positioned at the same elevation as the zeds

Yeah it makes for easier head shots up close - but that limits your range and reduces the time they need to get to you should the barrier be breached.

Posted: 3/14/2012 10:36:40 AM EDT

[#44]

.223 but I'll bust out my .22lr and try it if I wake up and zombies are running around

Posted: 3/16/2012 6:04:13 PM EDT

[#45]

I like the idea of 22 LR for offense and 12g00 for defense, but that selection would suck if I ran into hostile humans sporting 'found' armor, heavy hitting rifles and a long range awareness. As such, you almost always need an EBR or equivalent. Then again, you'd be nuts to stay in an urban setting and easily get caught off guard by contacts only a dozen feet away.

Posted: 3/16/2012 6:06:09 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
.223 but I'll bust out my .22lr and try it if I wake up and zombies are running around

Lol you know we are all gonna be doing that just to answer the big "will they alert from suppressed 22" and "will they go down from 22" debates.

Posted: 3/17/2012 5:57:13 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
The 2 smallest callibures would be 22 magnum or .17 hmr. The 22 long rifle round is just to small and slow to be reliable. There is a reason why people who hunt don't use the 22 for anything bigger than a raccoon.

All I can say is I have a couple cousins who used .22lr to hunt much larger animals than raccoon and they were quite successful. And .22lr has been used to kill livestock (hogs & cows) when it was slaughter time.

Posted: 3/17/2012 5:59:11 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I've seen deer killed with 22lr, head shot. I would think if a 22lr can kill a deer, a zombie shouldn't be a problem..

Deer have smaller brains - those small bullets don't need to destroy as much to render the deer ineffective. People have taken .22LR to the head and remained functional - depends where in the head you hit. I'd imagine Zombies would be the same way. Hit the brain stem and they'll drop like a sack - hit the area of the brain devoted to speech or long term memory I doubt they'd notice.

Why stop with 1 round?

Posted: 3/17/2012 11:41:47 AM EDT

[#49]

CB Long might have enough "Ooomph" to penetrate the skull (at a close enough distance) and be effective & quiet.

Posted: 3/17/2012 1:29:43 PM EDT

[#50]

ONly prob there is cycling issues in semi autos. From what I understand, CB wont/ cant cycle in semis due to no powder. If you had a wheel gun or bolt action it would prob work.....as you said, at very close quarters.

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