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Posted: 8/24/2017 7:13:18 PM EDT
After 5 hour oral exam I get in the airplane. We take off and climb to 3000. Demonstrate steep turns and that goes ok. Go to demonstrate lazy 8's left is ok right is a bit jerky but thought it was fine. Examiner has me do them again and fails me because the pitch and roll did not constantly change and also I blew the altitude (that's BS 100%, but I left it alone). Read the pts and nowhere does it specify constant change as a requirement it only says coordinated. The kicker though is the examiner proceeds to tell me if this was a comm check ride I would have passed!
 But I need to get 100% perfect to be a cfi...
EDIT: ACS does specify constant change, but that is beside the main point. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:34:19 PM EDT
[#1]
Your examiner is a dick.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:38:58 PM EDT
[#2]
Complain to FSDO- after you get your ticket.
With enough complaints, the prick will himself be re-examined. Happened to an examiner in my AO; FAA did a surprise sit-in on him. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:44:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Complain to FSDO- after you get your ticket. With enough complaints, the prick will himself be re-examined. Happened to an examiner in my AO; FAA did a surprise sit-in on him. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 8:49:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Complain to FSDO- after you get your ticket. With enough complaints, the prick will himself be re-examined. Happened to an examiner in my AO; FAA did a surprise sit-in on him. |
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:12:21 PM EDT
[#5]
What are the PTS for CFI. I have been flying for 20 years and I have never seen "perfect" as a standard!
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:41:04 PM EDT
[#6]
So after doing some reading the Cfi pts references the old comm pts which is no longer valid. So using the comm ACS there is a requirement that the maneuver is performed with a "constant change of pitch and roll rate and speed". So I guess holding the 30 degree bank at the 180 point for too long is a fail. All that is fine with me but the part that gets me is the "if this were a comm check ride you would pass." We are using comm standards sooooooo.
 I used this examiner for my inst, comm and now cfi but I am going to be hesitant to recommend him after this. He does not work for the faa. His fee is also $600 for the cfi which I thought was a lot.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:48:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Something like 75% of CFI applicants bust that ride the first time.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 9:53:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Something like 75% of CFI applicants bust that ride the first time. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 8:43:43 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So after doing some reading the Cfi pts references the old comm pts which is no longer valid. So using the comm ACS there is a requirement that the maneuver is performed with a "constant change of pitch and roll rate and speed". So I guess holding the 30 degree bank at the 180 point for too long is a fail. All that is fine with me but the part that gets me is the "if this were a comm check ride you would pass." We are using comm standards sooooooo. I used this examiner for my inst, comm and now cfi but I am going to be hesitant to recommend him after this. He does not work for the faa. His fee is also $600 for the cfi which I thought was a lot.
I just remembered a clown in the Jax area. That guy was a nut.....like certifiably mentally unstable, I won't go naming names but he is well known for his antics. I did my first CFI ride with him, I ended the ride during the oral when he told me his answer was correct and the FAR/AIM was wrong. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 10:25:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a designated examiner n the Atlanta area who was so bad he was known as 2-ride. IIRC he only charged 1/2 the fee for the second one.
I just remembered a clown in the Jax area. That guy was a nut.....like certifiably mentally unstable, I won't go naming names but he is well known for his antics. I did my first CFI ride with him, I ended the ride during the oral when he told me his answer was correct and the FAR/AIM was wrong. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 11:09:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a designated examiner n the Atlanta area who was so bad he was known as 2-ride. IIRC he only charged 1/2 the fee for the second one.
I just remembered a clown in the Jax area. That guy was a nut.....like certifiably mentally unstable, I won't go naming names but he is well known for his antics. I did my first CFI ride with him, I ended the ride during the oral when he told me his answer was correct and the FAR/AIM was wrong. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 12:54:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Dude, Im sorry. BTDT.
I busted my CFI checkride. In fact, its the only bust I have ever had in 19 years, 8 in the military. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 1:04:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ES? |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 1:59:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Don't feel too bad. I busted my private ride because I said "oh shit" when I entered the auto rotation.
"Outcome of the maneuver was in doubt". |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 2:34:34 PM EDT
[#15]
When I did my interview for the major airline where I currently work they sat me down and reviewed my application with me line by line. One of the background questions they had, no bullshit, was "have you ever failed a check ride other than your CFI?"
While it's nice to have no failures, this one alone won't substantially impact you. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 2:39:07 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love flying, but sometimes I really can't stand aviation! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was a designated examiner n the Atlanta area who was so bad he was known as 2-ride. IIRC he only charged 1/2 the fee for the second one.
I just remembered a clown in the Jax area. That guy was a nut.....like certifiably mentally unstable, I won't go naming names but he is well known for his antics. I did my first CFI ride with him, I ended the ride during the oral when he told me his answer was correct and the FAR/AIM was wrong. I'd rather slam my nuts in a car door, than take a 5 hour oral. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 3:44:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I did my interview for the major airline where I currently work they sat me down and reviewed my application with me line by line. One of the background questions they had, no bullshit, was "have you ever failed a check ride other than your CFI?" While it's nice to have no failures, this one alone won't substantially impact you. Uhhh...about that. Welcome to computerized resume vetting. Fedex, for example asks have failed any rides while paid as a professional pilot. Delta and Southwest ask if you've EVER failed any checkride or stage check, or if you've failed more than one ride. Clicking these radio buttons on the database websites doesn't improve your points. One reason I'd recommend Part 61 flight training to no one wishing to do this for a living. I'm not telling the O-P to pack it in and stack lumber at Home Depot. Just saying that in an era of computerized resume scoring, things seem to have a different impact than the good old days and how and why so. JMO. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 3:46:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So after doing some reading the Cfi pts references the old comm pts which is no longer valid. So using the comm ACS there is a requirement that the maneuver is performed with a "constant change of pitch and roll rate and speed". So I guess holding the 30 degree bank at the 180 point for too long is a fail. All that is fine with me but the part that gets me is the "if this were a comm check ride you would pass." We are using comm standards sooooooo. I used this examiner for my inst, comm and now cfi but I am going to be hesitant to recommend him after this. He does not work for the faa. His fee is also $600 for the cfi which I thought was a lot.Yeah, fuck that guy. Let the other CFIs know about it, too. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 6:40:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't feel too bad. I busted my private ride because I said "oh shit" when I entered the auto rotation. "Outcome of the maneuver was in doubt". |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 6:44:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uhhh...about that. Welcome to computerized resume vetting. Fedex, for example asks have failed any rides while paid as a professional pilot. Delta and Southwest ask if you've EVER failed any checkride or stage check, or if you've failed more than one ride. Clicking these radio buttons on the database websites doesn't improve your points. One reason I'd recommend Part 61 flight training to no one wishing to do this for a living. I'm not telling the O-P to pack it in and stack lumber at Home Depot. Just saying that in an era of computerized resume scoring, things seem to have a different impact than the good old days and how and why so. JMO. |
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Posted: 8/25/2017 8:47:41 PM EDT
[#21]
I had a Fed bust me on my ATP ride. The ride was in a King Air C90 and our Check Airman was in the right seat, with the Fed in the aft forward-facing club seat on the right. He was observing my CA give a 135 ride, and was giving me my ATP at the same time.
That was the best oral (snicker) and flight I've ever had on a check ride. The needles during my steep turns never moved; approaches were solid. I felt great! Last thing of the day, single-engine ILS to a landing, piece of cake. It's a rough and gusty day, and as I'm coming down the Loc to maybe 100' above minimums, a gust picks the plane up. No biggie- I ease the nose over and stay on the GP, which never got close to 1-dot deflection. We land and taxi in. My CA is excited for me and said that was an outstanding check ride. Even the Fed steps out and was all smiles with how well it went, and even said "Man, you flew that airplane like you were wearing a suit!" Then said, "Buuut, I want to see that SE ILS again....I don't want to diving for the GS when so low to the ground."  W....T.....F?!?!?! I was livid, and my CA was royally ticked as well. No matter what we said, I was done. That's my ONLY bust ever.
To this day, 10 years later, the only thing I can think of is that when I eased down to stay on the GS, with him sitting WAY in the back of the plane, it probably felt like the tail came up high and I was diving. OMG I'm still pissed. Probably why SWA isn't calling.  
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Posted: 8/25/2017 9:53:53 PM EDT
[#22]
"Read the pts and nowhere does it specify constant change as a requirement it only says coordinated."
Not saying it is not BS... However: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/commercial_airplane_acs.pdf "CA.V.D.S5b b. Constant change of pitch and roll rate and airspeed" |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:18:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Read the pts and nowhere does it specify constant change as a requirement it only says coordinated." Not saying it is not BS... However: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/commercial_airplane_acs.pdf "CA.V.D.S5b b. Constant change of pitch and roll rate and airspeed" That's the whole point of it. A graceful, coordinated maneuver. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:51:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your Instructor failed you OP. Constant change, is how it's done. That's the whole point of it. A graceful, coordinated maneuver. As said before the main issue I had with it is not the fact I failed a portion but the fact the examiner said it would have been a pass if I was taking a comm check ride. There is no difference in standards between comm and cfi performance for the lazy 8. To top it off same examiner passed a friend today for his comm and then his advice on lazy 8's...Hold the aircraft steady for a few seconds at the 90 degree point, wtf. Exactly opposite of what he told me he wanted to see from me. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 6:04:52 AM EDT
[#25]
The CFI fail rate at the Dallas FSDO was 85% when I did my CFI.
That bust alone won't raise any red flags for anyone. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 6:10:50 AM EDT
[#26]
I think some DPEs do it just to get the retest fee. They just make you do what you "failed" in the retest, so it's quick and they get to charge you again.
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:19:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The CFI fail rate at the Dallas FSDO was 85% when I did my CFI. That bust alone won't raise any red flags for anyone. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:57:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I seem to recall hearing the same number when I got mine out of Addison. This was back around 1999. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 1:36:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My CFI bust story still makes my blood boil. That fat fuck busted me TWICE for a BS reason and then asked me to take him for a ride in my plane since he hadn't flown a Mooney in years. That dude is one of two men in my life where I have refused to shake his hand. |
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Posted: 8/26/2017 8:45:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that out of Addison? What an a-hole. H. S. Were his initials. |
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Posted: 8/27/2017 7:11:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The CFI fail rate at the Dallas FSDO was 85% when I did my CFI. That bust alone won't raise any red flags for anyone.
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Posted: 8/27/2017 1:07:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't feel too bad. I busted my private ride because I said "oh shit" when I entered the auto rotation. |
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Posted: 8/30/2017 8:51:11 AM EDT
[#33]
Went back and finished it up last night. I think the instructor needed a bust. He didn't charge me to finish, we flew for 15 minutes, and I did my lazy 8 about the same as before. Maybe a touch smoother. At least it's done. We bs'd for 30 minutes while looking at his shop just so he doesn't get flagged for a check ride under 1 hr...
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Posted: 8/30/2017 10:32:12 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Went back and finished it up last night. I think the instructor needed a bust. He didn't charge me to finish, we flew for 15 minutes, and I did my lazy 8 about the same as before. Maybe a touch smoother. At least it's done. We bs'd for 30 minutes while looking at his shop just so he doesn't get flagged for a check ride under 1 hr... |
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Posted: 10/1/2017 11:56:23 AM EDT
[#35]
A perfect FAA lazy 8 requires an airplane with absolutely no sticktion in the controls, other wise it's going to be jerky. I don't know why this maneuver is included in the suite, it's not a real lazy 8
 , and doesn't really demonstrate any remarkable skill.
In the 80's the St. Louis FSDO had an examiner well known for stupid long ass check rides. He would drag a guy around all day long, then bust the ride at the end of the day without giving a hint they ought to stop. He was also a customer at our glider operation, and I hated towing him as he was unpredictable. |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 12:22:41 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Went back and finished it up last night. I think the instructor needed a bust. He didn't charge me to finish, we flew for 15 minutes, and I did my lazy 8 about the same as before. Maybe a touch smoother. At least it's done. We bs'd for 30 minutes while looking at his shop just so he doesn't get flagged for a check ride under 1 hr... |
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Posted: 10/8/2017 8:23:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Sent you a pm.
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