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Posted: 9/6/2010 5:06:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:32:04 PM EDT
I'm going to cancel my healthcare just so I can refuse to pay the fine! Who's with me?
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:34:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:35:37 PM EDT by jeh311]

Originally Posted By sfunk1x:
I'm going to cancel my healthcare just so I can refuse to pay the fine! Who's with me?

i refuse to pay a fine for that bullshit.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 7:01:53 PM EDT
Of course it will fail. It has to. It's not a solid proposal. It's unsupportable and unsustainable.


CJ
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:46:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course it will fail. It has to. It's not a solid proposal. It's unsupportable and unsustainable.


CJ


That's right! With all us tea party members out there cancelling our insurance, we're going to make the IRS go broke trying to enforce their fines!
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:54:30 PM EDT
It has already failed in that most of it hasn't even been written yet. There are hundreds of references to conditions and requirements "to be determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services". In other words, what they did was give themselves the authority to manipulate the American people through legislation that enables them to pass any law they want without following the traditional Congressional process, control business by giving the gov't the ability to redefine what constitutes a legitimate health care plan on a case by case (or business entity by business entity) basis, allowing the gov't to reward or bankrupt businesses, and adds hundreds of new taxes that haven't been fully defined in the bill. We're already screwed and most of it hasn't even kicked in.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:05:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 8:06:28 PM EDT by NeedMoreAmmo]

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course it will fail. It has to. It's not a solid proposal. It's unsupportable and unsustainable.


CJ
Yup. Horse dead before the first corner....

The problem is what the .gov will do before giving up on it.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:42:43 PM EDT

I'm assuming that they will just keep tax refunds until you pay off whatever the fine will be for not having insurance.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 8:51:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KingRat:

I'm assuming that they will just keep tax refunds until you pay off whatever the fine will be for not having insurance.



Then you just change your withholding.


Vulcan94
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 9:34:12 PM EDT
the sleeper is the no pre existing conditions part.

there is absolutely n opoint in spending money on insurance when you can buy it AFTER you get sick. The fine is a fraction of what coverage costs and it wont take many years for people to figure this out and ALL insurance companies will go bankrupt. That is the plan.

There are two options when the industry is killed.

1. government claims to big to fail and takes them over and subsidizes the losses and increases the fees for the rich and gives more free shit to the poor. (defacto socialized healthcare)


2. They let them fail completely and try to blame it on the free market even though their legislation FORCED the fall of insurancee companies and hope people are stupid enough to vote for socialized medicine to replace the insurance companies.


Im hoping this happens sooner than later so people remember who caused it and they are not able to blame it on republicans like they did with the housing bubble they created.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 5:11:40 PM EDT
The Individual Mandate will Not be considered Constitutional by SCOTUS when it get's there, and because of the rush to get it thru the Senate before the Christmas holiday, the House left out a severance clause, that would have been added back in later assuming Scott Brown was going to lose. This Law will never be enforced and probably will not recieve any more funding beyond what has allready been approved. They overplayed thier hand beyond all expectations and hopefully they ( the progressives ) will be driven underground for another 70 years and We the People wont forget how easy it is to Destroy US from within. When 47% of the Taxpayers pay no Tax, Trouble is just around the corner.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:38:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brothermike:
The Individual Mandate will Not be considered Constitutional by SCOTUS when it get's there, and because of the rush to get it thru the Senate before the Christmas holiday, the House left out a severance clause, that would have been added back in later assuming Scott Brown was going to lose. This Law will never be enforced and probably will not recieve any more funding beyond what has allready been approved. They overplayed thier hand beyond all expectations and hopefully they ( the progressives ) will be driven underground for another 70 years and We the People wont forget how easy it is to Destroy US from within. When 47% of the Taxpayers pay no Tax, Trouble is just around the corner.



I think you're making a huge assumption about the non-constitutionality of the legislation, particularly without reading it and having a pre-disposition of disliking it.

Not trying to troll, but trying to point some things out. What is the objective definition of "General Welfare"? How about the subjective version of that definition? Will that "General Welfare" change from time to time, because of advancements in technology, knowledge and attitude towards the population as a whole? Or will we expect people to always have the same mindset as an 18th century citizen?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:38:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sfunk1x:
Originally Posted By brothermike:
The Individual Mandate will Not be considered Constitutional by SCOTUS when it get's there, and because of the rush to get it thru the Senate before the Christmas holiday, the House left out a severance clause, that would have been added back in later assuming Scott Brown was going to lose. This Law will never be enforced and probably will not recieve any more funding beyond what has allready been approved. They overplayed thier hand beyond all expectations and hopefully they ( the progressives ) will be driven underground for another 70 years and We the People wont forget how easy it is to Destroy US from within. When 47% of the Taxpayers pay no Tax, Trouble is just around the corner.



I think you're making a huge assumption about the non-constitutionality of the legislation, particularly without reading it and having a pre-disposition of disliking it.

Not trying to troll, but trying to point some things out. What is the objective definition of "General Welfare"? How about the subjective version of that definition? Will that "General Welfare" change from time to time, because of advancements in technology, knowledge and attitude towards the population as a whole? Or will we expect people to always have the same mindset as an 18th century citizen?
our founders wrote of it as not to be used outside of the enumerated powers. So if you want to stretch that then you might as well burn the whole constitution as liberals are and have been doing for decades.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 5:59:35 AM EDT
Nowhere in the Constitution does the Federal Govt. get the authority to mandate Citizens purchase anything. This law was not written like social security where it is voluntary nor was it written as a tax even though the IRS is charged with enforcing it, it is still not a tax. It was written in a way as to to regulate interstate commerce. The problem is that to choose not to purchase a product does not affect interstate commerce and the Fed's are stuck trying to convince the court's it does. The Virginia case will be heard sept.19 and we will know what direction this is going by Christmas. I predict the Fed's lose and appeal to SCOTUS and the case gets heard in the 2010-2011 session.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:00:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Of course it will fail. It has to. It's not a solid proposal. It's unsupportable and unsustainable.


CJ

This. It is non-compatible with reality.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 1:15:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brothermike:
Nowhere in the Constitution does the Federal Govt. get the authority to mandate Citizens purchase anything. This law was not written like social security where it is voluntary nor was it written as a tax even though the IRS is charged with enforcing it, it is still not a tax. It was written in a way as to to regulate interstate commerce. The problem is that to choose not to purchase a product does not affect interstate commerce and the Fed's are stuck trying to convince the court's it does. The Virginia case will be heard sept.19 and we will know what direction this is going by Christmas. I predict the Fed's lose and appeal to SCOTUS and the case gets heard in the 2010-2011 session.




Since when has social security been voluntary? Are you one of those people who has rescinded their SSN/Card and lives without it?
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 1:44:39 PM EDT
Please let it be an Epic failure.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 1:49:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By victorgonzales:
the sleeper is the no pre existing conditions part.

there is absolutely n opoint in spending money on insurance when you can buy it AFTER you get sick. The fine is a fraction of what coverage costs and it wont take many years for people to figure this out and ALL insurance companies will go bankrupt. That is the plan.



Wow, I'd hate to be your dentist. Ever have physicals and things like that? I guess I don't understand because my employer picks up that tab on all that. Not the best insurance around, but it's something.

Originally Posted By victorgonzales:

There are two options when the industry is killed.

1. government claims to big to fail and takes them over and subsidizes the losses and increases the fees for the rich and gives more free shit to the poor. (defacto socialized healthcare)


2. They let them fail completely and try to blame it on the free market even though their legislation FORCED the fall of insurancee companies and hope people are stupid enough to vote for socialized medicine to replace the insurance companies.


Im hoping this happens sooner than later so people remember who caused it and they are not able to blame it on republicans like they did with the housing bubble they created.



Well, who cares if insurance companies fail? Just pay the doctor directly.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 12:57:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sfunk1x:
Originally Posted By brothermike:
Nowhere in the Constitution does the Federal Govt. get the authority to mandate Citizens purchase anything. This law was not written like social security where it is voluntary nor was it written as a tax even though the IRS is charged with enforcing it, it is still not a tax. It was written in a way as to to regulate interstate commerce. The problem is that to choose not to purchase a product does not affect interstate commerce and the Fed's are stuck trying to convince the court's it does. The Virginia case will be heard sept.19 and we will know what direction this is going by Christmas. I predict the Fed's lose and appeal to SCOTUS and the case gets heard in the 2010-2011 session.




Since when has social security been voluntary? Are you one of those people who has rescinded their SSN/Card and lives without it?


Well at least youre aware that there are Citizens who do'nt play by the established rules.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:00:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vulcan94:
Originally Posted By KingRat:

I'm assuming that they will just keep tax refunds until you pay off whatever the fine will be for not having insurance.



Then you just change your withholding.


Vulcan94


yes the IRS will rape you oral, anally and vaginally
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