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Posted: 2/28/2006 5:47:49 AM EDT
OK, so those who have seen both, which one was better? Manhunter or Red Dragon?

Discuss....

Heres my take.

If I have to choose, hands down, Manhunter.

First of all, its directed by the Arfcom hall of famer, Michael Mann, of Heat fame

The music by Tangerine Dream is far better and interesting. I like the actors in it better for their parts. The color palette I like much more.

I like William Peterson as Graham way more than Ed Norton, Norton just seems to gay and wimpy. I like Dennis Farina as Crawford better than Keitel, although I think the best Crawford was Scott Glenn in Silence. The Reba character is a toss up...Joan Allen or Emily Watson...ehh, either or. Tom Noonan is far more creepy and scary as Doloarhyde than Ralph Fiennes. Noonan is hands down better. And I like Stephan Lang better as Lounds of Phillip Seymour Hoffman....

I also like aspects of Manhunter much more. The final breaking of Dolarhyde when he sees Reba getting dropped off by the other film guy was much cooler in Manhunter..."No, not Francis, Francis is gone, Francis is gone forever...."

Interestingly enough how different visually the two are, considering the cinematographer was the same, Dante Spinotti....I like the brilliant color palette of Manhunter much better than the muted dull palette of Red Dragon. The color in Manhunter was amazing....

The music in my book was far more interesting and ethereal in Manhunter than the standard symphonic stuff in Dragon. Tangerine Dream rules....

Also found it interesting that Delaurentis Group was responsible for both....

So in my book Manhunter all the way...

What say you guys?
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:57:10 AM EDT
I haven't seen manhunter yet but I own the Silence, Hannibal, and The Red Dragon so I need to pick it up.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:50:07 AM EDT
While Red Dragon is a more accurate version of the book there is really no reason for it to exist other than to make it part of the "official" Hannibal Lector series and line the pockets of the people involved with it. It is inferior to Manhunter in almost every way.

Edward Norton (American History X, Fight Club) had less than a fraction of William Petersen's intensity and conviction -- I didn't believe him as Graham for a second -- while Brian Cox played Hannibal Lector with an oily creepiness that Anthony Hopkins can only dream of.

The music was not by Tangerine Dream (that's Mann's Thief and The Keep) but Michel Rubini, The Prime Movers, Shriekback, Red 7, The Reds and, of course, Iron Butterfly.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 10:05:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2006 10:08:42 AM EDT by pzjgr]

Originally Posted By Zuma:
While Red Dragon is a more accurate version of the book there is really no reason for it to exist other than to make it part of the "official" Hannibal Lector series and line the pockets of the people involved with it. It is inferior to Manhunter in almost every way.

Edward Norton (American History X, Fight Club) had less than a fraction of William Petersen's intensity and conviction -- I didn't believe him as Graham for a second -- while Brian Cox played Hannibal Lector with an oily creepiness that Anthony Hopkins can only dream of.

The music was not by Tangerine Dream (that's Mann's Thief and The Keep) but Michel Rubini, The Prime Movers, Shriekback, Red 7, The Reds and, of course, Iron Butterfly.



The Reds....thats who I was thinking of....sorry my bad!

But I agree with you, Peterson was so much better as Graham. I did like Cox a lot as Lecktor (the spelling they used in Manhunter)...but I do like Hopkins...that character for me is a tough call.

Manhunter actually is one of my favorite movies of all time, I can watch it over and over again. Man, Noonan is creepy!

I wish they would do a Special Edition, with a cast and director comentary....\

I often wonder what Dante Spinotti thought of the two, considering he was cinematographer on both. There was nary a mention of Manhunter anywhere on the Red Dragon disc, save a few very brief comments by Ratner....

ETA Also enjoyed the Michael Mann "crew" in Manhunter...Dennis Farina and Bill Smitrovich (both in both Miami Vice and Crime Story), Kim Greist and Michael Talbott were in Vice. The guy who plays the SWAT guy who gave Graham the Glaser Safety Slugs was the Argentinian assasin in Vice (who I guess was also a real life pistol/gun expert). I think the kid was the same kid who played Sonny's son....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:43:56 PM EDT
There IS a 2-disc Special Edition which contains both the theatrical and Director's cuts along with a couple of featurettes (one, a conversation with -- as you wish -- Dante Spinotti) and a 24-page Collector's book but, alas, no commentary.

Manhunter (Director's Cut, Limited Edition Set)
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:52:17 PM EDT

Absolutely love Manhunter, hands down, much better than Red Dragon.



ETA Also enjoyed the Michael Mann "crew" in Manhunter...Dennis Farina and Bill Smitrovich (both in both Miami Vice and Crime Story), Kim Greist and Michael Talbott were in Vice. The guy who plays the SWAT guy who gave Graham the Glaser Safety Slugs was the Argentinian assasin in Vice (who I guess was also a real life pistol/gun expert). I think the kid was the same kid who played Sonny's son...

If you watch the movie Thief, check the part where James Caan goes into the bar to get his date, kinda roughs her up a little and one of the bar staff come at James Caan---that is William Peterson.

I love how Michael Mann uses a lot of the same actors in different roles in his movies.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 1:54:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zuma:
There IS a 2-disc Special Edition which contains both the theatrical and Director's cuts along with a couple of featurettes (one, a conversation with -- as you wish -- Dante Spinotti) and a 24-page Collector's book but, alas, no commentary.

Manhunter (Director's Cut, Limited Edition Set)



Yeah, the regular disc has the same featurettes. The only reason I didn't get teh 2-discer, is I understand the "Directors cut" is horrible, cobbed together with working prints, etc...almost unwatchable in quality. I didn't think it was worth the extra scoots.

Maybe someday someone will do it right (My understanding is Anchor Bay didn't even get the theatrical release right, as it is missing some dialogue....

The conversation with Dante of course took place before Red Dragon, so there are no thoughts from him comparing the two....
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 3:43:05 PM EDT
Yeah, the Director's Cut was originally cobbled together for a Showtime series of "Director's Cuts" many, many years ago. I actually editied the original and the Showtime versions together (on a Betamax -- that's how long ago it was) and it's almost identical to the DVD Director's Cut. There are a couple of different edits and alternate takes (such as the police briefing Graham attends) and a tacked-on ending of a scarred and battered Graham visiting the family who would have been Dolarhyde's next victims, just to "see" them. The video quality is below DVD spec but certainly not unwatchable.

I could have sworn Spinotti commented on his Red Dragon work in that featurette, but maybe not.

BTW, I have the shredded, fake-blood stained green satin jacket that Jim Belushi was wearing when he was shotgunned to death in Thief, complete with lead squib backs and wiring. We knew the owner of the "Rocket" auto lot Caan's character owned in the film and got one of the two jackets (from two different takes) after the scene wrapped.

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:56:03 PM EDT
Manhunter was far superior to Red Dragon. The cast was better matched in Manhunter than Dragon with the execption of Anthony Hopkins. And who would'nt love that Miami Vice type soundtrack.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:10:33 PM EDT
Manhunter was great.
Holy shit, what a movie.
Both are awesome, you can't go wrong.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 8:45:13 PM EDT
Manhunter is the better of the two. William Peterson is a superior Graham...

But I still like the line

'... have you ever seen blood in the moonligh? It looks quite black...'

David
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 9:19:13 PM EDT
I prfer manhunter, but i think red dragon was a better done more "mature" film
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:53:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 12:55:51 AM EDT by OFCJAX]
Manhunter hands down. That said; I liked the extended story of Red Dragon. I felt it was necessary to explain his reluctance to work with DR. Lector.
(side note: I liked the CSI episode that W. Peterson and T. Noonan did together! That must've been fun.)

BTW Anybody else think that Hannibal was a great book, till they read the ending? For once I'm glad the movie was different from the book.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:58:42 AM EDT
I prefered Manhunter............ Tom Noonan as The Tooth Fairy......... Talk about made for the part......
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:49:14 AM EDT
Hopkins was far better than Cox as Lecter. In every other way, Manhunter is superior.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:23:33 PM EDT
Manhunter, hands down.

That said, Red Dragon was one of the most fascinating and frightening books I have read, at least confined to fiction.

Dolarhyde was vividly described as HUGE, very powerful, constantly lifting weights, some of the wierdest conversations he had with the dragon were while lifting weights. He also bit on a rubber block to build his jaw strength.

I don't know anyone working in Hollywierd who could fill those shoes, but Tom Noonan needed to gain 100 lbs of muscle to to the Red Dragon justice.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:48:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Manhunter, hands down.

That said, Red Dragon was one of the most fascinating and frightening books I have read, at least confined to fiction.

Dolarhyde was vividly described as HUGE, very powerful, constantly lifting weights, some of the wierdest conversations he had with the dragon were while lifting weights. He also bit on a rubber block to build his jaw strength.

I don't know anyone working in Hollywierd who could fill those shoes, but Tom Noonan needed to gain 100 lbs of muscle to to the Red Dragon justice.



Christian Bale as seen in Batman Begins, or Jason Statham.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:49:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 3:55:25 PM EDT by RiffRandall]

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Manhunter, hands down.

That said, Red Dragon was one of the most fascinating and frightening books I have read, at least confined to fiction.

Dolarhyde was vividly described as HUGE, very powerful, constantly lifting weights, some of the wierdest conversations he had with the dragon were while lifting weights. He also bit on a rubber block to build his jaw strength.

I don't know anyone working in Hollywierd who could fill those shoes, but Tom Noonan needed to gain 100 lbs of muscle to to the Red Dragon justice.



Richard Kiel ("Jaws" in the James Bond movies)?? He's a bit big at 7'2" & playing the "toothfairy" in Manhunter/Red Dragon might be typecasting a bit. Not that many huge, muscled up actors in Hollywood.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:56:51 PM EDT
Another Manhunter fan here.

Ah, the scene in the jet as it comes in for the landing. Which of the drivers license is the “Winner?”

No contest.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:51:50 AM EDT
No question Manhunter.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:58:05 AM EDT
Manhunter. I loved it the first time I saw and still watch my old VHS copy of it, even though I have a copy on DVD.



This needs a poll.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:22:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:
Manhunter. I loved it the first time I saw and still watch my old VHS copy of it, even though I have a copy on DVD.



This needs a poll.

Not really. Everybody here says that Manhunter is the better movie.

It’s just that there are some things in Red Dragon that aren’t in Manhunter that we appreciate.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:55:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bblake00:
Manhunter. I loved it the first time I saw and still watch my old VHS copy of it, even though I have a copy on DVD.



This needs a poll.



Well, ok for shits and grins, even though I think we know the answer, I'll add a poll.....
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:16:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Dolarhyde was vividly described as HUGE, very powerful, constantly lifting weights, some of the wierdest conversations he had with the dragon were while lifting weights. He also bit on a rubber block to build his jaw strength.

I don't know anyone working in Hollywierd who could fill those shoes,



Brian Thompson
back in the day when manhunter was made he would have been perfect
hes not near as big as he used to be
IMDB link
he was the killer in Cobra
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:24:47 PM EDT
Red Dragon sucked azz......

Ralph Fiennes is the last person on earth I would have cast as Dolarhyde. Adam Sandler, Carrot top or Pauly Shore would have been better in that role and they suck azz pretty bad too.

Edward Norton was also miscast. I think Fiennes would have been better in his part. Philip Seymour Hoffmann stole the movie with his flaming wheelchair stunt.

I complain about all the re-makes hollyweird is making these days but this is one movie they need to remake NOW to atone for the pathetic thing they released in 2002.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 3:27:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
Manhunter, hands down.

That said, Red Dragon was one of the most fascinating and frightening books I have read, at least confined to fiction.

Dolarhyde was vividly described as HUGE, very powerful, constantly lifting weights, some of the wierdest conversations he had with the dragon were while lifting weights. He also bit on a rubber block to build his jaw strength.

I don't know anyone working in Hollywierd who could fill those shoes, but Tom Noonan needed to gain 100 lbs of muscle to to the Red Dragon justice.



I think a younger Jesse Ventura might have made a pretty good dollarhyde.
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