I'm finally getting around to refinishing my basement and part of the project is going to be a roughly 12' x 12' are dedicated to "home theater".  I've got the Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Theater Speaker set currently in my existing space but now I'd like to upgrade to something a bit cleaner for this new space that doesn't require stands, external mounts, or sub woofers sitting on the floor.

Below is a rough sketch of what the basement will look like when finished including the 12' x 12' area I'm setting aside for the TV area.  I'm thinking my best bet is In Wall speakers for the Left, Right, and maybe Center Speaker.  For the Left and Right Surround, my current thought is to go with In Ceiling Speakers just behind the couch on the far left and right that can be somewhat tilted towards the listener since I don't have two opposing walls to work with.  For the subwoofer, I'd like to keep it off the floor if possible so I'm thinking about an In Wall subwoofer on that small wall that juts out next to my wet bar area.  

I know only slightly more than nothing about which speaker brands are good but I've thrown a dart and landed on Klipsch and picked out the following:
Klipsch RW-5802 II IW SUB In-Wall Speaker - 1x
Klipsch R-3650-W II In-Wall Speaker - 1x Left / 1x Right
Klipsch R-5502-W II In-Wall Speaker - 1x Center
Klipsch CDT-3650-C II In-Ceiling Speaker  - 1x Left Surround / 1x Right Surround

Looks like about $2000 total once I throw in the amplifier for the Subwoofer.  I have an existing mediocre receiver but I'm not too worried about it right now as I can upgrade that anytime.  I'm more worried about getting the stuff that requires wiring and cut outs in the wall right at this moment.  I'll wire everything to a wall plate behind the TV stand where I'm presuming the receiver will be at least at the moment.

My questions are as follows:
1)  Am I on the right track in terms of the general configuration of this space including speaker types and general locations?
2)  I Klipsch good stuff or should I be looking at something else?
3)  Do those speakers look reasonably sized for this space?  I picked the smaller of the two options available (6.5" vs 8.0" woofers on the left front, right front, left surround and right surround)
4)  Any other things I should be considering in this space based on what you see not limited to the sound system.

Attached File

Find a way to get every thing centered in a space and way from the wall.  You have everything jammed in one small corner and snugged up against that wall on the left.  

Free-standing speakers are your friends.

1)  If it were my space, I would look at possibly changing the configuration. But that would depend on what the other 'space' is designated as.   What is the 'column' on the bottom wall?  Is that ducting?  If so, that negates that wall as it's right in the middle.  

The next best wall is the wall sharing the steps and then turn the seating 90 degrees clockwise from it's present position.   I would choose this wall for a couple of reasons.  The first is it will get your seating location more centered.  This will give you more spatial definition in object oriented surround environments.  In layman's terms, the 5.1 will sound better when you are sitting on your couch.  The second reason being your stipulations--no floor subs.  I would utilize the space under the stairs to 'hide' my floor subs.  Im not sure what sound you are going for, but if you want that theater experience in your home (feel the movie as oppose to just watch the movie), your in-wall subs aren't going to cut it.  You could get one or preferably two powered floor subs and hide them in that space and get the big movie sound but not have one (or two) boxes sitting out on the floor.  You could also mount your LCR channels in this wall although I personally would opt for free-standing cabinets for all three front channels and build the speaker faces into the wall.  You could also put your some gear behind that wall such as amps, etc or cut a rack into that wall so you have a built-in option for your equipment rack (over by the kitchen/wet bar and trim it out with the same casing as the cabinets.)  Then you wouldn't need a piece of furniture to hold your equipment and act as a stand for the TV.  Mount the display on the wall and you have a nice clean look.

If you are absolutely married to the idea of the current configuration, it can be done.  I would place my subs in that left top corner.  Without do a bass crawl, my guess is that corner is going to give you the best response.

2) Klipsch is good but I think there are other options out there to look at also depending on how flexible the in-wall speaker situation is.

3)  Again, this depends on what 'sound' you are going for.  If you want to feel the movie, I believe your current plan will leave you and your family/guests underwhelmed with the experience.  If you are going for more of a soundbar sound with surround experience, it will be just fine.

If you want that big movie experience, those speakers are undersized, imo.  You have to remember that while your viewing area is 12x12, the area you are filling with sound is about 3 - 3.5X that (if the drawing is close to scale.)  Sound doesn't stop at the edge of your couch.  You are basically filling that entire volume with sound so the speakers need to be able to contend with that space.  If you walled in that 12 x 12 area, they would be just fine.

4)  I'd ditch the ceiling speakers for the SL/SR channels.  I know you are stipulating no stands, etc.  But there is a big time problem with mounting ear-layer surround channels in height-layer space.  That sound will be 'raining' from the top like an Atmos effect instead of coming from LR ear levels like a traditional 5.1/7.1 surround setup.  And the aren't directional so you can't even mount them further back and then aim them at the listening position.

I made the mistake with my first theater iteration of paying more attention to aesthetics than I did adhering to proper speaker selection and placement.  And I can tell you, I paid for it.  Often times, what looks good isn't what sounds best--or even sounds good.  And I think the ceiling mounted speakers for your bed layer surrounds is one of these mistakes.  (On a side note, if you do want to wire for the ceiling speakers, by all means do it.  Even if you current AVR isn't Atmos-capable, any upgrade in the future most certainly will be.  Then you'll have the wiring all ready to go and you'll just need to plug them in!  Im a big proponent of Atmos/DTS:X. )  

There are a couple of options.  You could do a sofa table placed behind the seating and put your rear channels on that.  Yes, I know...speakers, wiring and wives usually don't mix, but if you get creative, they can become part of the decor.  (Check out the 'peanut' speakers in the new Parts Express catalog to see what I mean.)  You could wire a jack on the far left wall right where the couch is and come out of it with your rear channel speaker wires.  Then conceal them from the wall under the couch and up the legs facing the couch to the speakers themselves.  Or, they do make some very nice decorative stands complete with cable management.  Im currently using these in my theater.  Very clean looking.  

You are going to have to get creative or compromise, but I would do everything I could to get those two rear channels out of the ceiling.


Here is a pic of the stands Im using for the SR/SL/SBR/SBL channels.  The rear speaker channels are run down that center columun and then the wire under the couch and the to the stands and up the cable management tubes.  Im using them because I wanted exact placement of the 4 rear channels.  You can also see the equipment rack cut into the wall in the front right.  That room behind it houses all of the equipment for the entire theater.  Speakers, amps, projector, TVs, etc all runs back to that location.  The cubes I use for music/album storage would also give you an idea of how a sofa table could be utilized to sit speakers on.




And here is a picture of the gaming area.  Im using these speakers as the SR/SL channels in a 5.1 system.  They are designed to mount at that angle.  But even at that angle pointing directly at the listening position, the surround is 'compromised' and it drives me nuts.  But it's the Xbox area for my son so I don't worry about it that much.    Without the ability to angle it and with them just pointing straight down, the surround effect would be almost completely useless/lost.

@quick2k3

Thank you very much for the detailed response.  It is greatly helpful.  To answer a few of your questions:

1)  The drawing is perfectly to scale down the 1/4" so what you see is what I'll end up with once I settle on everything.

2) The column on the bottom is hiding a vertical sanitary line.  With that said, I'm removing lally columns and replacing the main beam in this remodel so I'm certainly not afraid of moving that line into or at least significantly closer to the wall.  The one thing that my previous render didn't show, and is probably more meaningful in terms of room constraints is duct work running down the center of the room which will be in a soffit with a finished height of 6'4 compared to 7'2 for everywhere else in the basement.  My idea was to put the couch underneath that soffit so I was making the most of my low ceiling areas for places where people won't be standing anyway.  With the duct work being where it is, I don't have much opportunity to use the wall where my stair well is for the screen because the ductwork cuts right down the middle of the available portion of that wall.

With that in mind and considering yours and others feedback, I have another idea which is also workable, gives more room for this space, and might open up the feel of the room.  I've also added in the HVAC soffit to the model so you can see how that impacts things:

Attached File


Attached File


With this concept I'd be switching to a projector and at least a 100" screen (as drawn) due to the increased viewing distance.  Once again, knowing very little about the subject, my plan would be to mount the projector on the ceiling above the seating area so tall guests don't wack their head on it walking around.

3)  I'm ok with tossing out the idea of an in-wall subwoofer.  I'm not married to the idea of in-wall LCR speakers but I certainly am attracted to it.  Perhaps the biggest consideration here is 1) Getting stuff off the floor that I know for a fact my toddler is going to want to mess with and 2) Doing something aesthetically pleasing for the wife.  For the surround speakers, I've been looking at in-ceiling ones that could be pointed something other than straight down.  I think the Klipsch ones I listed have that ability.  I'm not sure I could go for floor standing speakers, which I grasp would be ideal, but I could possibly use the left wall on one side and the soffit on the other for mounting some external speakers pretty much exactly like how you show in your gaming area.  What would you call those types of speakers that fit up in a corner like that?

3)  ATMOS sounds cool.  I could definitely put those speakers in ahead of time in the ceiling.  That wouldn't be a problem at all.  Is a 2 speaker setup fine for that or am I missing out by not going to 4?  I won't have a drop ceiling once it's finished so it'd be a big project to try and come back to it later.

4) I appreciate your ideas for an in wall AV cabinet.  I could put it in the stairwell but now it'd be directly behind the viewer.  I know I can use an IR extender to solve at least that problem but I wonder if I'd run into other problems that I'm not thinking about.  My current devices would be a Receiver, Xbox One, Xbox 360, and Cable Box.  What do you think?  

Thanks again for taking the time with your response and your pictures.  It is GREATLY appreciated and has already impacted my thinking.

If you went with that current layout but pushed the seating more to the center of the room, you could even out the sound and you could utilize the stairwell wall for your in the wall surrounds.  

With the seating up against on wall (either left or right) you are going to get some weird sound waves in the room that even room correction software or sound treatments are going to have a hard time overcoming.  If you can get that seating more in the middle of the room, you'll achieve a more balanced space for the sound.  

And if the seating was centered more, you could position your SL and SR channels on that back wall.  The SL channel might be tricky but you could lay it out with blue tape and see what it looks like (if it clears the treads on the steps.)

But that would all depend on if you can utilize the entire space for a home theater.  Wives and kids have a way of getting in the way of what may sound best and forces compromise.  

Your projector could be ceiling mounted just above and slightly behind the seating so no one should be hitting it.  It wouldn't be in the traffic area at the foot of the stairs.

There are numerous project calculators on the web.  projectorcentral.com is like the arfcom technical forums for projectors.  You can find the projectors you are interested in and the respective screen size you want, select them from the drop down and it will give you a minimum and maximum throw distance for that particular projector.  Layout your seating with blue tape and see how far it is from the wall/screen to the projector mounting point and see if it falls within that min/max throw distance.

Toddlers.  That's all that needs to be said.  I definitely would NOT do speakers on stands with little ones.  The speakers are extremely heavy and if a small child pulled one down on their head...well, it would be a very bad thing.  Floor speakers/towers would even be iffy.  I think your in-wall solutions are probably going to be best.  But I would still go with the bigger option since you have quite a bit of cu ft to fill with sound.  Klipsch are very efficient speakers but make sure you have the amps to push them adequately.  

The speakers that I used for the gaming area in the picture I provided are Polk Audio OWM3 On-Wall speakers.  Don't get me wrong, they sound good but Im very nitpicky about surround sound.  I have learned over the years that there really is no substitute for getting the tweeter of all bed channels within an inch or two of the listeners ear while seated.  Imaging a plane extending out from the listeners ear.  Your tweeters should all be intersecting that plane.  And obviously my speakers in the gaming area are not anywhere close to ear level.  

This effect only gets worse when you introduce the height layer in Atmos/DTS:X.  The ear can't tell when something is coming from the surround channels or the height channels.  It just gets all mushed together.  Whereas if the bed layer is clearly separated form the height layer, the ear can easily distinguish the difference when a sound is behind the listener and when a sound is above the listener.

I had a post on here that since fell off due to inactivity, but I had a couple of different iterations of my home theater.  On the first one, I was using 4 bipole/dipole speakers mounted 3/4 way up the wall for my surrounds.  This used to be the traditional way to mount surrounds in 5.1/7.1 configurations.  Once I went with Atmos, I was extremely disappointed with my first couple of tests because I just couldn't get the effect separation that I knew I heard in other Atmos demo rooms.  I finally yanked the surround speakers off the wall, setup TV trays and stacked books on them, sat the speakers on the books, ran some temporary speaker cable to them and voila...magic.  It was as if they were completely two different systems even though I was still using all the same equipment, speakers, etc.  The only difference was about a foot and half or two on speaker placement.

This sorta pissed me off because I really liked the way my old theater looked with the speakers neatly mounted on the walls...just like a real theater.  But when I re-did my theater I told myself that I was going for absolute best sound and I would find the best aesthetic solution to accommodate that placement.  Not the other way around.  But I was lucky in that I had 100% say in the space (my wife has say in every other part of the house but the garage and basement are mine) and I didn't have to contend with small children.

So all that being said, I personally would opt for your in the wall speakers placed as close to ear level as possible over speakers placed too far above ear level.  Again if at all possible.

Atmos is cool.  And there is a lot of hoopla on some of the boards about it being a gimmick, etc.  A say phooey on that.  Way back in the day, I remember people saying surround sound was gimmicky, too.   That being said, for it to work correctly, it needs some pretty precise speaker placement.  4 is definitely better that 2 ONLY if you have the space to do it.  Otherwise, you'll be wasting cash on two speakers and the amp to drive them.  And don't even mess with the Atmos-enabled speakers.  They ARE gimmicky.  Ceiling mounted or bust, imo.

Dolby has a really good document on their website about proper Atmos placement.  If you decide to do it; read it and follow it.  Basically you want your seating position to be in the middle of the F Atmos speakers and the R Atmos speakers with all speakers pointing to the primary listening position.  When seated, all those speakers should be facing you.  If dont correctly, you should be surrounded by a virtual dome of speakers.  The closer you get them to the exact placement, the more perfect that dome of sound will be.  If the movie has an action scene with an archer firing a crossbow bolt from the balcony behind the camera, you'll be able to hear that crossbow release in the back right/top, hear the bolt whiz across the ceiling speakers and then hear the it find it's target in the front L channel.  Or in American Sniper, the bullets whizzing now have a new dimension to them.   Thunder, rain, birds in a forest, voices....it's all in the Atmose channels.  And movies and sound artists are getting better and better at utilizing them.  The intro to Mad Max is just insane in a properly setup Atmos theater.  

I used (4) RSL C34E for my ceiling speakers.  They have a nice white magnetic grill with them so they'll blend seamless into the ceiling.

I don't think you'll have any issue with the cabinet behind the viewing position.  In fact, it's favorable because any lights from the equipment are not causing a distraction during the movie.  Im pretty sure the Xbox won't be an issue and if any remotes/devices are, you could use the IR extenders as you pointed out or something like a Harmony Hub.  The Harmony remote communicates with the hub via RF and the use the IR mini blasters to control the IR devices in the rack.


ETA:  I forgot to add.  If you do the projector and a 110" ish screen, your family will be blown away.  BUT, you mentioned toddlers so I have to throw this out there.  Screens have an optical coating to them that is fairly delicate.  Fingerprints, etc aren't an issue but lightsabers are.    My son and his friend were watching Star Wars when they were just little kids and he had his plastic lightsaber down there.  Of course, a lightsaber battle ensues and the screen got hit.  You couldn't see the mark with the naked eye but as soon as the bright bulb his the screen, a 18" swipe across the middle of the screen just lit up like the fourth of July.  I tried everything to get it off but to no avail.

I know you said you have a toddler and getting things off the floor would be beneficial.  A fixed screen could potentially be an area of concern even though it's off the floor.   You could go with a retractable screen but that's going to up the budget a bit.  Just wanted to throw that out there as something to consider.

Go with a cheap screen for now.  I built my 103" screen with wood from Lowe's and blackout fabric from Joann's.  If the fabric gets damaged then replace it for $15.

Down firing subs or ones with metal grills like the SVS Ultra models will be safe from tiny hands.  My subs have titanium cones so they are pretty strong.  Unfortunately they are out of production.