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Posted: 4/10/2006 5:35:18 AM EDT
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12243323

Sad, but I am pleased that their power to lobby on the Hill is diminished.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 6:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 6:17:41 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
You seem to have a rather strange fascination with Christians and Christian subjects.

Why?

Do you think I should dig up a wee bit of, shall we say, controversy about Judaism and within Judaism?

It's called trolling, I think, but you know I've never shied away from anything controversial.

Eric The(CrusadingJew,Himself)Hun
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:54:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
You seem to have a rather strange fascination with Christians and Christian subjects.

I would say I have a healthy curiosity of all religions not just Christianity.

Why?

I live in a country where Christians claim to be the majority. It is in my best interest to know what Christians are about.

Do you think I should dig up a wee bit of, shall we say, controversy about Judaism and within Judaism?

I have no thoughts on what you should post.

The Gospel of Judas and the Christian Coalition posts are national news items from my Excite start page, I did not have to dig for anything.


It's called trolling,

I would think that if I was trolling VA would be the first to say so.

I think, but you know I've never shied away from anything controversial.

I think you are a legend in your own mind.

Eric The(CrusadingJew,Himself)Hun


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:49:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 6:50:49 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
You seem to have a rather strange fascination with Christians and Christian subjects.

I would say I have a healthy curiosity of all religions not just Christianity.


Really?

How many 'How About Those Vedas"' threads have you started?

I cannot find any 'I Think Zarathustra Was Wrong' threads with your name on them, either.

So, uh, are you an ecumenical snob, or just a common snob?


I live in a country where Christians claim to be the majority. It is in my best interest to know what Christians are about.

Claim?

We can argue, I suppose, how large that majority might be, but I do know one small, diminishing, clannish religion that wouldn't be on anyone's 'Top Ten' listing.



Originally posted by Eric The Hun:
Do you think I should dig up a wee bit of, shall we say, controversy about Judaism and within Judaism?



I have no thoughts on what you should post.

You should have just stopped at 'I have no thoughts.'

We could have both agreed on that.

The Gospel of Judas and the Christian Coalition posts are national news items from my Excite start page, I did not have to dig for anything.

And?

And there was no JewsNews of the Day?

I would bet that I could find some?

I would think that if I was trolling VA would be the first to say so.

Maybe he thinks it wouldn't be Christian of him to say so.

I think you are a legend in your own mind.

Then, as in so many, many things....you simply 'think' wrong.

But I suppose that you've grown quite accustomed to that.

Eric The(CrusadingJew,Himself)Hun
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:47:31 AM EDT
Healthy curiosity? No. Every post regarding the Christian faith has something derrogatory or demeaning within. I not seeing the healthy or the curiosity.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:37:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Langadune:
Healthy curiosity? No. Every post regarding the Christian faith has something derrogatory or demeaning within. I not seeing the healthy or the curiosity.



__

"Every post ..." ?



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 12:58:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:

How many 'How About Those Vedas"' threads have you started?

None

I cannot find any 'I Think Zarathustra Was Wrong' threads with your name on them, either.

Correct, no Zarathustra threads.

So, uh, are you an ecumenical snob, or just a common snob?

Neither

Claim?

Yes, I said claim.

We can argue, I suppose, how large that majority might be, but I do know one small, diminishing, clannish religion that wouldn't be on anyone's 'Top Ten' listing.

Yes, we could argue but I will not.
I have never been concerned about anyones top ten listing.


You should have just stopped at 'I have no thoughts.'
We could have both agreed on that.

How witty

And?

And there was no JewsNews of the Day?

Not that I noticed on Excite.

I would bet that I could find some?

I would bet you could too.

Maybe he thinks it wouldn't be Christian of him to say so.

How about we let VA speak for himself.


I think you are a legend in your own mind.


Then, as in so many, many things....you simply 'think' wrong.

No, I have it right.

But I suppose that you've grown quite accustomed to that.

No, I have not.


Eric The(CrusadingJew,Himself)Hun


Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:11:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Langadune:
Healthy curiosity? No. Every post regarding the Christian faith has something derrogatory or demeaning within. I not seeing the healthy or the curiosity.



I have to agree.
--------------------------------------------------
OldGuy's own words: (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=450362&page=2)

"You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so."
--------------------------------------------------
Pretty self explanitory, really.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:25:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 2:29:53 PM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By Langadune:
Healthy curiosity? No. Every post regarding the Christian faith has something derrogatory or demeaning within. I not seeing the healthy or the curiosity.



I have to agree.
--------------------------------------------------
OldGuy's own words: (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=135&t=450362&page=2)

"You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so."
--------------------------------------------------
Pretty self explanitory, really.



___

"Every post..." ?

___

Originally Posted By Shane333...same thread.

"OldGuy's next response includes a backhanded question about Christians reading the NT and then the OT. Frankly, since this is a discussion about the Bible and not the Torah, I don't see why OldGuy makes such a fuss about such things. Unless OldGuy has motives other than trying to hellp the original poster..."

Re:

"Frankly, since this is a discussion about the Bible and not the Torah..."

That's a fairly loose interpretation, given the thread referred to.


"You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so."
--------------------------------------------------
Pretty self explanitory, really"


__

The full text Shane was referring to was more like:

"I think you are being overly sensitive.

I asked a legitimate question, you are not compelled to answer so ignore the question and me.

You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so.

ETA

Constructive Criticism

For those who might be so inclined the local Lubavitcher Rabbi has what he terms a "Bnai Noah Class" which is doing very well as far as particpation goes.

Perhaps there is something like this is your area. "


___

OldGuy posted a current topic news item. Commentary from that point simply eroded from a discussion to a rant..."Pretty self explanitory, really...." ?



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:44:03 PM EDT
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 2:56:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



__

I'll let the moderator determine who is a Troll, sir.

Further, perhaps the RF should be sub-divided for separate religious viewpoints. Expanding upon topics posted in this forum shouldn't, or perhaps may be impossible for people to freely discuss, in the case of the overly-sensitive posters.



Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:03:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



__

I'll let the moderator determine who is a Troll, sir.

Further, perhaps the RF should be sub-divided for separate religious viewpoints. Expanding upon topics posted in this forum shouldn't, or perhaps may be impossible for people to freely discuss, in the case of the overly-sensitive posters.






I don't need a moderator to give me an opinion on who is a troll and who isn't. It isn't my jurisdiction to moderate this forum, but I can still make my own decision about who I think is obviously trolling.

As for sensitivity, why are you so defensive about being a troll?
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:08:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 3:09:49 PM EDT by scuba_ed]
Wasn't defensive about being one, simply being accused. However, I consider the source.

Done for the night, and finished with this thread...keep fishing for an argument, or trolling....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 3:14:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

I do not recall VA citing Ed or myself for trolling in that thread, perhaps I am mistaken.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Sounds ominous.

You may not believe this but I was actually stunned that someone, a Christian , would solicit my criticism. What you were seeing was incredulity.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



Perhaps it is time to lobby for an ignore feature on the board.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:24:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:52:49 PM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



__

I'll let the moderator determine who is a Troll, sir.

Further, perhaps the RF should be sub-divided for separate religious viewpoints. Expanding upon topics posted in this forum shouldn't, or perhaps may be impossible for people to freely discuss, in the case of the overly-sensitive posters.






I don't need a moderator to give me an opinion on who is a troll and who isn't. It isn't my jurisdiction to moderate this forum, but I can still make my own decision about who I think is obviously trolling.

As for sensitivity, why are you so defensive about being a troll?



___

Well, Shane...aren't you the pot calling the kettle black!

My goodness...!

From the thread "General • Religion • Gospel of Judas??? ", you were similarly queried in the following dialogue:


Originally Posted By hydgirl:

Originally Posted By Shane333:

Originally Posted By EricTheHun:
Doesn't upset me one little itty bitty bit

What's upsetting is that some folks who think they know Christianity seem to believe that by 250 AD to 350 AD Christianity was still searching for a message.

The Message was completed in the early part of the First Century AD.

And yet, St. Paul was contending with gnostic heresies even at this early date.

You would expect otherwise?

Satan did everything he could to destroy what cannot be destroyed....but the very gates of hell could not, and can never, prevail against it.

Of course there were heresies that were created when orthodox Christianity met other Middle Eastern religions, but orthodox Christianity won out.

And it's still winning after 2,000 years.

Get over it.



Eric The(SonOfAbraham)Hun



Very good point, ETH. Very true.


But who, exactly, decided what heresy actually is? It wasn't Jesus. It wasn't even Paul. It was Iranaeus, Bishop of Lyon. He decided what was heretical and what wasn't. He invented and defined the concept. And thanks to his writings, we actually know more about the gnostics now than if he had never written anything against them. The Gospel of Judas, we know from his writings, actually dates from around 180 AD (around the same time that the Gospel of John was written, I believe).

Speaking of Paul, just as there is more than one way to skin a cat, there is more than one way to interpret an epistle. Elaine Pagles wrote a book on exactly that subject called The Gnostic Paul: A Gnostic Exegis of the Pauline Letters. There is more than one way to think.



___


Oh, so let me understand...it's okay for discussion from or within your ken, yet if Jews post similarly, or otherwise inform or interject (wow! maybe a heresy interpreted by the insecure!), and then you talk of Troll-dom!

I appologize for the hi-jack from hydgirl. Though the point is, and has been made on other threads.

"But who, exactly, decided what heresy actually is? "

Shane, please, if you're capable...please apply the same standards to Jews as you would suffer others who don't agree [(perhaps Christian, Muslim, or applogetic) - it would seem your favorite amongst that group doesn't offend you ] without your by application of the "Troll" thingy.




Shane, you are the......





Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:35:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



Maybe because Jews know that Christians are severely lacking on their knowledge of Judaism and are blasphemous and ignorant, by the very basis of their beliefs.

Hard to have constructive criticism of a religion that cannot claim to be based off of any other religion with a straight face.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:43:16 PM EDT
Did you read the story?

The story implied
The coalition came about because of clinton,and with a conservative President the coalition is not needed so much.

I dont think that is so sad. I am sure if we get another pres. like clinton elected, the coalition or some similar group will rise up.

Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:51:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 5:58:49 PM EDT by scuba_ed]
It was an interesting article; all Americans should be involved with an understanding of religious movements and their implications upon politics.

That was where it started...that's where it should have ended.

In any other forum, a news quote posted (general, ammo, ar15, etc.), may have hit 40-pages+, though knee-jerk reactions by a second poster, and another with little to add, should not have caused such a horribly sensitive point in the RF...given what other religous members of the same ken are willing to cope with...amongst each other.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:35:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Scuba_ed,

you're just upset that you and OldGuy were caught in your trolling of that thread.

OldGuy's comments are still indicative of his attitudes towards Christians. His comments in the religion forum have long since proven that. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed it, as is evidenced in this very thread.

So OldGuy's comment, "You want constructive criticism from a Jew to a Christian????

I do not think so," still stands as a witness against him.

Some of us are getting a little tired of yours and OldGuy's obvious anti-Christian remarks in almost every thread that relates to Christianity.



His comments are not any more offensive than those made by Belloc and ETH. When speaking of religious differences it takes effort on the part of the speaker to choose less offensive terms. It also takes effort on the part of the listener not to take the worst interpretation of every statement.

The statement above is simple fact. Christians and Jews disagree on some pretty fundamental things, so when a Jew speaks of the Jesus or the OT (which they view as a corruption of their holy book) its going to ruffle some feathers.

One of the big things that could be done is stop using the and to reply to someone's religious posts, which almost everyone is guilty of in this forum. Its offensive in the extreme, yet VA lets it continue.

BTW we had this discussion before so i'm calling dupe.


Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:40:53 AM EDT
As much as these guys hate us, they need to wake up to the fact that it's the conservative Christians who are generally the only people left in the world who truly give a damn about Israel in international affairs.

The liberal, Christian-haters want to see a Palestenian state and Israel dismantled.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 7:09:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 8:54:51 AM EDT by Shane333]
Sometimes it's good to "sleep on it" before coming back to a discussion. I left the discussion yesterday afternoon obviously frustrated with certain posters. Well, I went home and thought about it, and decided that I was being too antagonistic in my comments to OldGuy and Scuba_ed.

So I come back this morning to apologize to OldGuy and Scuba_ed for being antagonistic yesterday. It isn't easy...but there it is.

Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to take a break from this thread....

Edited to add: I came into this thread without contributing a single constructive thing. Bad form on my part, especially after I was critical of others for the same thing in the past.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:07:38 AM EDT
Hi Shane...Thank you, and please too accept my apology.

Dino, Thank you also. I’ll do better to keep the “emoticons” in bay; they add little and take much more away….

BenDover…nobody hates anyone that I’ve been able to discern from this forum. We have our differences, of course.

Best to all!

Let’s meet again in another thread here to exchange ideas!

Happy Easter and Pesach to all!

B’Shalom,

Ed
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:45:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 8:49:02 AM EDT by BenDover]
Okay, maybe 'hate' was a poor choice of words.

Overtly arrogant expression of disdan towards we Christians, the only political ally you have left in the world. If I were a zionist Jew in America, I would be rallying around every conservative, Christian politician I could find.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:04:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BenDover:
Okay, maybe 'hate' was a poor choice of words.

Overtly arrogant expression of disdan towards we Christians, the only political ally you have left in the world. If I were a zionist Jew in America, I would be rallying around every conservative, Christian politician I could find.



The Christian desires to help the Jewish people are not based on actual desire to help the Jews, but on the desire to instigate the end times... as well as "secure" a place in heaven for themselves. I find it pretty hard to believe Christians honestly would support the Jews if there wasn't a benefit to them; Afterall, the Jews are all going to Hell by Christian beliefs.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:05:53 AM EDT
Well, actually it's Christians & Jews working together in the end times... but that's okay, Revelations is a tough read.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:11:29 AM EDT
Unfortunately there is not much 'news' in headlines such as "Christian Congregation Quietly Helps Community", "Church Pastor Leads Volunteer Effort". (dog bites man headline)

There is news in the likes of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, etc. (man bites dog scenario).

As people in the Jewish and other non-Christian communities often only recieve news of activities by Christians through the media, there is a preponderance of "newsworthy" unfavorable press.

The very fact that an article about an organised Christian effort which appears to be losing backing (for whatever reason) is aberrant enough to be newsworthy, is evidence that the status quo is of good people living decent lives and doing good works with general public approval.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:08:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

The Christian desires to help the Jewish people are not based on actual desire to help the Jews, but on the desire to instigate the end times... as well as "secure" a place in heaven for themselves. I find it pretty hard to believe Christians honestly would support the Jews if there wasn't a benefit to them; Afterall, the Jews are all going to Hell by Christian beliefs.



Michael Corleone voice;

Just when I think I am free of this thread, it sucks me back in.

I have never understood how Christians reconcile this. See red.

Jerry Falwell when asked recently about this red said that he had to stick to his beliefs that Jews would go to hell if they did not accept Jesus.

Please, there is nothing "back handed" about my comments, I just do not understand why no one sees the irony.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:14:44 AM EDT
0ldGuy, why not ask G-d in the matter?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:10:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 11:12:59 AM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By BenDover:
0ldGuy, why not ask G-d in the matter?



__

Ben, I'm not quite sure of your agenda....

"...why not ask G-d in the matter?"

He has, I have.

What more do you want? Or what are you trying to stir-up?

This thread should be finished...if you have a question, I would invite you to open a new thread.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:46:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

The Christian desires to help the Jewish people are not based on actual desire to help the Jews, but on the desire to instigate the end times... as well as "secure" a place in heaven for themselves. I find it pretty hard to believe Christians honestly would support the Jews if there wasn't a benefit to them; Afterall, the Jews are all going to Hell by Christian beliefs.



Michael Corleone voice;

Just when I think I am free of this thread, it sucks me back in.

I have never understood how Christians reconcile this. See red.

Jerry Falwell when asked recently about this red said that he had to stick to his beliefs that Jews would go to hell if they did not accept Jesus.

Please, there is nothing "back handed" about my comments, I just do not understand why no one sees the irony.





The Michael Corleone-ism seems to apply to me too today.

(disclaimer: the views I'm about to present are Christian views.)
The Jews are a covenant people of the Lord. A time will come when many modern Jews will accept Jesus as their Messiah, and become heirs to great blessings as a result.

Even in their current state, having rejected Jesus as their Messiah, the Jews are still a chosen people of the Lord and those who persecute Israel will be held accountable to the Lord. Those who do what they can to help Israel will be blessed by the Lord.

I don't see any irony in that.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:09:43 PM EDT
PreMed Gunner,I think you hit the nail right on the head.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:18:23 PM EDT
I'm curious. Would OldGuy and PreMed_Gunner prefer that conservative Christians not help the Jews?

Why would you question Christians' motives?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:53:14 PM EDT
Being neither Christian nor Jew, I can kind of see why there is discomfort here.

Let's say I come the tribe of Blue House Painters. My ancestors invented the skills of building houses and of making paint and painting houses. We believe that all houses should be painted Blue.

Some many years ago, a Blue House Painter invented Red paint. Many people of various nations admired the Red Painted houses and Painted their houses Red.

With the passage of time, and after many, many rounds in City Council Zoning Enforcement Court, enmity ensued between some but not all Blue and Red House Painting Clans. Many individuals were good neighbors, and even though they individually felt (or "knew") that either Blue or Red was the proper way to paint, they helped one another and got along great.

Others developed deep grudges, and became stricter in their conventions, and each came to believe that they other would incurr great wrath from the Great House Painter.

As few if any external enemies threated the to Paint Color Peoples, they raged against one another.

But within the last several centuries, the heathen tribe of Aluminum Siding looms upon the horizon as a common enemy. The Blue House people are settled along the border closest to the Aluminum Siding Enemy. The Red House People agree to help them, even though many of them believe their Blue Paint will condemn them to a bad end, and the Red Paint people believe that the Blue proponents will only come to a good end by converting to Red Paint.

The Blue House People invented 1) Houses, 2) Paint and 3) the art of House Painting.

They are uncomfortable with the idea that the Red Painters are helping fight a common enemy ONLY with the goal of eventually converting them to the virtues of Red Houses and Red Paint.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:19:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By psyops4fun:
Being neither Christian nor Jew, I can kind of see why there is discomfort here.

Let's say I come the tribe of Blue House Painters. My ancestors invented the skills of building houses and of making paint and painting houses. We believe that all houses should be painted Blue.

Some many years ago, a Blue House Painter invented Red paint. Many people of various nations admired the Red Painted houses and Painted their houses Red.

With the passage of time, and after many, many rounds in City Council Zoning Enforcement Court, enmity ensued between some but not all Blue and Red House Painting Clans. Many individuals were good neighbors, and even though they individually felt (or "knew") that either Blue or Red was the proper way to paint, they helped one another and got along great.

Others developed deep grudges, and became stricter in their conventions, and each came to believe that they other would incurr great wrath from the Great House Painter.

As few if any external enemies threated the to Paint Color Peoples, they raged against one another.

But within the last several centuries, the heathen tribe of Aluminum Siding looms upon the horizon as a common enemy. The Blue House people are settled along the border closest to the Aluminum Siding Enemy. The Red House People agree to help them, even though many of them believe their Blue Paint will condemn them to a bad end, and the Red Paint people believe that the Blue proponents will only come to a good end by converting to Red Paint.

The Blue House People invented 1) Houses, 2) Paint and 3) the art of House Painting.

They are uncomfortable with the idea that the Red Painters are helping fight a common enemy ONLY with the goal of eventually converting them to the virtues of Red Houses and Red Paint.



You left out a few more important parts.

1. The Red Painters are forbidden, by law, from proselytizing the virtues of red paint on the Blue House property. Yet the Red Painters continue to support the Blue Painters because the Red Painters believe that it is what the "Great House Painter" wants.

2. Also, the Red Painters believe that the color was always red, and that the Blue Painters have simply been color blind. I only include this line because of the earlier assumption that the color was blue to begin with.

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:20:14 PM EDT
damn that made my head hurt.

you could've just summed it up with "Beware the Greeks bearing gifts"

Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:32:12 PM EDT
Very good points, Shane. And I'm glad to see this very sensitive issue discussed in figurative terms rather than mudslinging. Those really are good points which I actually had not thought of yet.

Incidentally, most of the Christian people I have met and gotten to know tend to believe that the Almighty is most kindly disposed to the Jewish people, and would not think of venturing to say that they are destined for "hell".

Unfortunately it's not the millions of quiet Christian individuals who live their faith who get the press attention, but rather a few "outspoken" individuals.

Happy Resurrection Sunday to you and yours, and I do mean that sincerely
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 1:37:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:
damn that made my head hurt.

you could've just summed it up with "Beware the Greeks bearing gifts"



Well, You're just smarter than I am, Dino

I'm just glad to get this debate up on a civil and figurative level... no small feat considering the centuries of enmity and even bloodshed.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:27:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333
You left out a few more important parts.

1. The Red Painters are forbidden, by law, from proselytizing the virtues of red paint on the Blue House property. Yet the Red Painters continue to support the Blue Painters because the Red Painters believe that it is what the "Great House Painter" wants.



And the Red painters know nothing of the housing development plants of the Blue painters, and how Red paint never really was needed in the first place.



2. Also, the Red Painters believe that the color was always red, and that the Blue Painters have simply been color blind. I only include this line because of the earlier assumption that the color was blue to begin with.




The Blue painters say that you cannot get Red from Blue, and thus the Red painters have no connection at all to the founding of the Blue painters.

Quitting with the metaphors: Christians understand very little about Judaism and quite frankly base there religion on two incredible fallacies:

1) We need a sacrifice to atone for all of our sins and give us salvation... this isn't true, sacrifice only partains to accidental sins(OldGuy correct me if I am wrong) and Jews don't see any need of salvation. There isn't a Hell in Judaism, so what is there to be saved from?

2) That G-d would sacrifice a human being for sins. This is already wrong from the reasons given in part 1); however, G-d forbid human sacrifice, so Jesus being sacrificed wouldn't have atoned for anything. Human sacrifice is part of pagan religions, as is the idea of G-d coming in human form.

Now, I don't like Judaism, and I do not like Israel in the slightest... and I am not Christian; however, I realized early on that there is no logical reconciliation of Christianity with Judaic beliefs - it is heresy.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:42:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By Shane333
You left out a few more important parts.

1. The Red Painters are forbidden, by law, from proselytizing the virtues of red paint on the Blue House property. Yet the Red Painters continue to support the Blue Painters because the Red Painters believe that it is what the "Great House Painter" wants.



And the Red painters know nothing of the housing development plants of the Blue painters, and how Red paint never really was needed in the first place.



2. Also, the Red Painters believe that the color was always red, and that the Blue Painters have simply been color blind. I only include this line because of the earlier assumption that the color was blue to begin with.




The Blue painters say that you cannot get Red from Blue, and thus the Red painters have no connection at all to the founding of the Blue painters.

Quitting with the metaphors: Christians understand very little about Judaism and quite frankly base there religion on two incredible fallacies:

1) We need a sacrifice to atone for all of our sins and give us salvation... this isn't true, sacrifice only partains to accidental sins(OldGuy correct me if I am wrong) and Jews don't see any need of salvation. There isn't a Hell in Judaism, so what is there to be saved from?

2) That G-d would sacrifice a human being for sins. This is already wrong from the reasons given in part 1); however, G-d forbid human sacrifice, so Jesus being sacrificed wouldn't have atoned for anything. Human sacrifice is part of pagan religions, as is the idea of G-d coming in human form.

Now, I don't like Judaism, and I do not like Israel in the slightest... and I am not Christian; however, I realized early on that there is no logical reconciliation of Christianity with Judaic beliefs - it is heresy.



When the "Great House Painter" arrives we will all have our final answer, won't we.

If you reject the idea that mankind is imperfect and has need for salvation, so be it.

If you reject Jesus as being the Savior, so be it.

I'm not telling you that you have to agree with me. I was merely providing an answer to the question OldGuy asked regarding the Christian motives for aiding Israel, and pointing out with psyops4fun's example that Christians are aiding Israel despite the fact that Christians can't even proselytize there.

I know that you don't like Judaism, and that it probably bothers you that Christians give aid/support to Israel.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:09:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
When the "Great House Painter" arrives we will all have our final answer, won't we.



Indeed, and I hope my religion is right, because then we all will be in Paradise to discuss this issue, instead of the other case, where 2 of us 3 are guaranteed to be in hell.



If you reject the idea that mankind is imperfect and has need for salvation, so be it.



Muslims don't believe in original sin; however, we do believe man is imperfect. We differ on Christians on that we don't believe that Allah requires an intermediary to forgive us for our sins, we can go straight to the source.


I'm not telling you that you have to agree with me. I was merely providing an answer to the question OldGuy asked regarding the Christian motives for aiding Israel, and pointing out with psyops4fun's example that Christians are aiding Israel despite the fact that Christians can't even proselytize there.



okay.


I know that you don't like Judaism, and that it probably bothers you that Christians give aid/support to Israel.


It wouldn't bother me in the least if they were doing it for noble reasons, both groups are already on my list of groups never to associate with.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:19:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 0ldGuy:
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12243323

Sad, but I am pleased that their power to lobby on the Hill is diminished.

I'm sad that your pleased.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 6:23:34 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
By request.
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