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Posted: 4/5/2006 5:47:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:49:06 PM EDT by ShadowOne]
A very small percentage of the human population are "tetragametic chimeras." They are one single person derived from two fertilized embryos that fuse together, so they have two distinct sets of DNA. Some tissues have one set, some tissues have the other. This phenomenon has been reported in medical journals, although there is no real explanation for its cause or how it even happens at the cellular level.

If a single-cell embryo is defined as a living being, according to some religions, then does a chimera have two souls? Or does one of the souls depart to the afterlife immediately when the embryos fuse? Or does one soul get a do-over and gets another body when the next embryo comes along?

Seems almost like a riddle.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:48:44 AM EDT
A lot of your question boils down to the question:

At what point/moment does the soul enter into the body?



I personally don't know the answer to that question. I oppose abortion on the grounds that it is "like unto murder" and is contrary to God's plan.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Human Chimera has only one soul.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:52:03 AM EDT

How Many Souls in a Human Chimera?


Wrong question. Humans ARE souls (Genesis 2:7). We do not have souls in us.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:52:57 AM EDT
Every single woman on the planet if a chimera. 55% is not a smal percentage.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 9:55:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ghengiskhabb:

How Many Souls in a Human Chimera?


Wrong question. Humans ARE souls (Genesis 2:7). We do not have souls in us.



try not to get stuck on poetic language.

The general concensus is we are two parts, the body and the soul.

Whether you describe us as a body containing a soul or a soul encased in mortal shell, you are saying the same thing.

Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:46:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
A lot of your question boils down to the question:

At what point/moment does the soul enter into the body?



I personally don't know the answer to that question. I oppose abortion on the grounds that it is "like unto murder" and is contrary to God's plan.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Human Chimera has only one soul.



I oppose abortion not becuase the fetus may have a soul in it, but because left alone, that fetus is intended to be a vessel for one.

But that's not the topic. It does, however, tie in to it, in my mind.

The human body is a whole being. One soul for one being. I'm fairly certain that only one soul would be tied to a human chimaera.

Why?

Do you think this fusing of cells was beyond God's knowledge? Regardless of how and when the two embryos fused, i'm certain that God had a plan all along, and alloted only one soul for the eventual one person. Hence nothing was displaced.

But that's only my opinion.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:23:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:
Every single woman on the planet if a chimera. 55% is not a smal percentage.



You mean "mosaic."
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:28:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattimeo:

Originally Posted By Shane333:
A lot of your question boils down to the question:

At what point/moment does the soul enter into the body?



I personally don't know the answer to that question. I oppose abortion on the grounds that it is "like unto murder" and is contrary to God's plan.

Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, a Human Chimera has only one soul.



I oppose abortion not becuase the fetus may have a soul in it, but because left alone, that fetus is intended to be a vessel for one.

But that's not the topic. It does, however, tie in to it, in my mind.

The human body is a whole being. One soul for one being. I'm fairly certain that only one soul would be tied to a human chimaera.

Why?

Do you think this fusing of cells was beyond God's knowledge? Regardless of how and when the two embryos fused, i'm certain that God had a plan all along, and alloted only one soul for the eventual one person. Hence nothing was displaced.

But that's only my opinion.



So your god also knows exactly which embryos frozen in nitrogen at fertility clinics are to be selected and born in to human beings? And your god would also know which ones are to be discarded or donated for research?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:24:06 AM EDT
Human beings are not souls...we are incarnate spirits, bodies animated by spiritual souls.

So from this perspective, when we die, that is, when our spiritual soul is separated from ITS body, the body decays but the soul endures... what's left isn't a man, but a human soul. It needs a body to be a man, ergo the existential need for resurrection to be complete (which is why in the Bible, the ultimate destiny of humanity is not to be disembodied souls but risen men and women in heaven...)

looked at another way... your essence is to 'be' a corporeal being, animated by a spiritual soul. So when the corpus - the body, the physical stuff needed for life is there, the soul is there as it's animating principle.

The soul - as an animating, ordering principle doesn't add stuff to the body.

In the case of identical twins, as soon as there is enough matter for two individuals, the second soul is created ex nihilo as the organizing principle of that second individual substance.

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:34:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Human beings are not souls...we are incarnate spirits, bodies animated by spiritual souls.

So from this perspective, when we die, that is, when our spiritual soul is separated from ITS body, the body decays but the soul endures... what's left isn't a man, but a human soul. It needs a body to be a man, ergo the existential need for resurrection to be complete (which is why in the Bible, the ultimate destiny of humanity is not to be disembodied souls but risen men and women in heaven...)

looked at another way... your essence is to 'be' a corporeal being, animated by a spiritual soul. So when the corpus - the body, the physical stuff needed for life is there, the soul is there as it's animating principle.

The soul - as an animating, ordering principle doesn't add stuff to the body.

In the case of identical twins, as soon as there is enough matter for two individuals, the second soul is created ex nihilo as the organizing principle of that second individual substance.




Deep, but eloquently put.

So in the case of tetragametic chimerism, when the "second matter" is fused to another and eventually forms one single man or woman, that second matter was never a "living being" in its original state. Hence, that second embryo was not an "animated soul." Or, is it that the original two embryos served as vehicles for two independent souls, and when those vehicles fused together one soul was displaced?

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:31:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Human beings are not souls...we are incarnate spirits, bodies animated by spiritual souls.

So from this perspective, when we die, that is, when our spiritual soul is separated from ITS body, the body decays but the soul endures... what's left isn't a man, but a human soul. It needs a body to be a man, ergo the existential need for resurrection to be complete (which is why in the Bible, the ultimate destiny of humanity is not to be disembodied souls but risen men and women in heaven...)

looked at another way... your essence is to 'be' a corporeal being, animated by a spiritual soul. So when the corpus - the body, the physical stuff needed for life is there, the soul is there as it's animating principle.

The soul - as an animating, ordering principle doesn't add stuff to the body.

In the case of identical twins, as soon as there is enough matter for two individuals, the second soul is created ex nihilo as the organizing principle of that second individual substance.




Deep, but eloquently put.

So in the case of tetragametic chimerism, when the "second matter" is fused to another and eventually forms one single man or woman, that second matter was never a "living being" in its original state. Hence, that second embryo was not an "animated soul." Or, is it that the original two embryos served as vehicles for two independent souls, and when those vehicles fused together one soul was displaced?




but siamese twins ARE two people, they are just connected physically through their organ systems. I feel that the soul is in the mind, and thus, as long as there are two different brains, there are two different people.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:28:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:29:25 PM EDT by ShadowOne]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Human beings are not souls...we are incarnate spirits, bodies animated by spiritual souls.

So from this perspective, when we die, that is, when our spiritual soul is separated from ITS body, the body decays but the soul endures... what's left isn't a man, but a human soul. It needs a body to be a man, ergo the existential need for resurrection to be complete (which is why in the Bible, the ultimate destiny of humanity is not to be disembodied souls but risen men and women in heaven...)

looked at another way... your essence is to 'be' a corporeal being, animated by a spiritual soul. So when the corpus - the body, the physical stuff needed for life is there, the soul is there as it's animating principle.

The soul - as an animating, ordering principle doesn't add stuff to the body.

In the case of identical twins, as soon as there is enough matter for two individuals, the second soul is created ex nihilo as the organizing principle of that second individual substance.




Deep, but eloquently put.

So in the case of tetragametic chimerism, when the "second matter" is fused to another and eventually forms one single man or woman, that second matter was never a "living being" in its original state. Hence, that second embryo was not an "animated soul." Or, is it that the original two embryos served as vehicles for two independent souls, and when those vehicles fused together one soul was displaced?




but siamese twins ARE two people, they are just connected physically through their organ systems. I feel that the soul is in the mind, and thus, as long as there are two different brains, there are two different people.



So life in the flesh begins when the brain begins to form?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:24:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By ShadowOne:

Originally Posted By JusAdBellum:
Human beings are not souls...we are incarnate spirits, bodies animated by spiritual souls.

So from this perspective, when we die, that is, when our spiritual soul is separated from ITS body, the body decays but the soul endures... what's left isn't a man, but a human soul. It needs a body to be a man, ergo the existential need for resurrection to be complete (which is why in the Bible, the ultimate destiny of humanity is not to be disembodied souls but risen men and women in heaven...)

looked at another way... your essence is to 'be' a corporeal being, animated by a spiritual soul. So when the corpus - the body, the physical stuff needed for life is there, the soul is there as it's animating principle.

The soul - as an animating, ordering principle doesn't add stuff to the body.

In the case of identical twins, as soon as there is enough matter for two individuals, the second soul is created ex nihilo as the organizing principle of that second individual substance.




Deep, but eloquently put.

So in the case of tetragametic chimerism, when the "second matter" is fused to another and eventually forms one single man or woman, that second matter was never a "living being" in its original state. Hence, that second embryo was not an "animated soul." Or, is it that the original two embryos served as vehicles for two independent souls, and when those vehicles fused together one soul was displaced?




but siamese twins ARE two people, they are just connected physically through their organ systems. I feel that the soul is in the mind, and thus, as long as there are two different brains, there are two different people.



So life in the flesh begins when the brain begins to form?



Nope, when the cerebral cortex is formed, until then, fetuses are little more than parasites, IMO; However, I do not believe a fetus is imbued with a soul until they are born.
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