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Posted: 4/2/2006 1:11:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 1:11:52 AM EDT by Kalahnikid]
today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-03-30T204217Z_01_N30395850_RTRUKOC_0_US-PRAYER.xml&rpc=22


CHICAGO (Reuters) - A study of more than 1,800 patients who underwent heart bypass surgery has failed to show that prayers specially organized for their recovery had any impact, researchers said on Thursday.

In fact, the study found some of the patients who knew they were being prayed for did worse than others who were only told they might be prayed for -- though those who did the study said they could not explain why.

The patients in the study at six U.S. hospitals included 604 who were actually prayed for after being told they might or might not be; another 597 patients who were not prayed for after being told they might or might not be; and a group of 601 who were prayed for and told they would be the subject of such prayer.

The praying was done by members of three Christian groups in monasteries and elsewhere -- two Catholic and one Protestant -- who were given written prayers and the first name and initial of the last name of the prayer subjects. The prayers started on the eve of or day of surgery and lasted for two weeks.

Among the first group -- who were prayed for but only told they might be -- 52 percent had post-surgical complications compared to 51 percent in the second group, the ones who were not prayed for though told they might be. In the third group, who knew they were being prayed for, 59 percent had complications.

After 30 days, however, the death rates and incidence of major complications was about the same across all three groups, said the study published in the American Heart Journal.

COMPLICATIONS AFTER SURGERY

"Intercessory prayer itself had no effect on whether complications occurred (and) patients who were certain that intercessors would pray for them had a higher rate of complications than patients who were uncertain but did receive intercessory prayer," the study said.

There is "no clear explanation" for the latter finding, it added.

The study -- called the largest of its kind -- was designed only to try to measure the impact of intercessory prayer on heart surgery patients, an intervention that some earlier reports had showed seemed to be beneficial.

"Our study was never intended to address the existence of God or the presence or absence of intelligent design in the universe" or to compare the efficacy of one prayer form over another, said the Rev. Dean Marek, director of chaplain services at the Mayo Clinic, one of the authors.

The patients in the study had similar religious profiles with most believing in spiritual healing and almost all also thinking that friends or relatives would be praying for them as well, he said.

"One caveat is that with so many individuals receiving prayer from friends and family, as well as personal prayer, it may be impossible to disentangle the effects of study prayer from background prayer," Manoj Jain of Baptist Memorial Hospital, Memphis, Tennessee, another author of the report.

The authors said one possible limitation to their study was that those doing the special praying had no connection or acquaintance with the subjects of their prayer, which would not usually be the norm.

"Private or family prayer is widely believed to influence recovery from illness, and the results of this study do not challenge this belief," the report concluded.




Might as well give it up if its proven by scientists not to work!
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:59:01 AM EDT
praying is our only power but every thing is in his time ing not ours i think about stoping to
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:09:06 AM EDT
All this shows is man cannot manipulate God's will (Big surprise). I have seen prayers answered and unanswered. I would not dare to claim that 8400 prayers could sway God, but would claim that 1 prayer can make all the difference that is needed. Sometimes physical recovery is not in the person's best interest and it is obviously not always the will of God. I find that in my weakest moments when I feel all is lost or the pain seems to be unbearable, I do not pray for an end to the pain, suffering, or ailment, but for comfort through it. I have found that this comfort comes from Christ and while he does not take it all away, it is bearable and I feel my prayers answered. Perhaps my cross is not too large for me to handle when I choose to be near Him.

Kalahnikid,

I am not sure if you posted this in sarcasm or if you are seriously troubled by it. Frankly I wouldn't pay it any attention, but if you would like to further discuss this, I welcome you in public or private.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:16:49 AM EDT
God is moved by faith, not by need.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 12:48:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NukeMech:
Kalahnikid,

I am not sure if you posted this in sarcasm or if you are seriously troubled by it. Frankly I wouldn't pay it any attention, but if you would like to further discuss this, I welcome you in public or private.



I was being extremely sarcastic, there is no greater power on earth than prayer.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:54:35 PM EDT
Guess I would have gotten that if I had looked under your name:

" 'Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:19:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NukeMech:
Guess I would have gotten that if I had looked under your name:

" 'Get ready; be prepared, you and all the hordes gathered about you, and take command of them.



Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:23:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 7:27:11 PM EDT by Krackels]
This story goes to show the variation in how the media chooses to report it. The Seattle Times? and the New York Times reported the story completely differently.

What the study does show is:
When people pray for someone and they don't know they are being prayed for, they do better.
When people pray for someone and they know they are being prayed for, they don't.


Don't forget praying isn't just about verbalizing your requests before God, its about having fellowship with the living God. Prayer more often does more to change us.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:21:11 PM EDT
Ok, taken at face value this study is basically saying that based on the group sampled, having others pray for a patient has no effect on the patient's recovery. Ok, i'll buy that. However, the more interesting question that is unanswered is if the patient's prayers (or lack of prayers) has any effect. No doubt we all hear stories of those who say prayer pulled them through, but I'd be interested in hearing some numbers from a "controlled" study.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:22:52 PM EDT
Do it just in case they are wrong.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:51:01 PM EDT
Tell this to the sevral people I know that have been healed without any medical explanation. I think the article is BS personally, and God doesnt move to prove himpself, he doesnt need to.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:22:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:28:10 PM EDT by ShadowOne]
I think the point of the study was to assess the effect of placebo, not to test religion using a scientific method. Anectodal evidence suggests that optimists are overall healthier and recover from illnesses more effectively than those who are always down. Personally, I think it has to due with hormones. If you're always stressed and pessimistic about yourself and the world around you, there can be an increase catabolic hormone release which breaks down tissue.
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 5:51:33 PM EDT
The power of prayer and God's will cannot be proven or disproven by a mere random sampling. God's creation is infinite. Without assessing the whole for what it is, all is folly, and can provide no tangible result.

Even then, I doubt you could prove or disprove anything.

Prayer works through the power of faith. Faith is, and will always be, sorely lacking in evidence. That's the point.
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