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Posted: 3/4/2006 8:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 8:38:08 PM EDT by raven]
Where would a believer who believes in god, reveres Jesus but doesnt believe accepting him as god absolves all sins, and isn;t a Jew or Muslim, fit in? What do you do? Follow th 10 commandments, heed the books, and hope for the best? Is there no church or community?

Not worried about about making into heaven or getting sent to hell, but seeing the religious and spiritually-centered life or its own virtue is worth adoption n in itself.

Link Posted: 3/4/2006 9:05:13 PM EDT
Sounds like that person would embrace Buddhism easier than anything else.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 10:09:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 10:14:53 PM EDT by raven]
Even though I think the god of Abraham is for real? And I sincerely believe in him and obey Mosiac law?

I cant honestly say I'm a cHristian though, in the hoest sense of the word. It intellectually makes no sense to me. And I'd adhere to something thing else, but there is nothing else for the likes of me.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 10:34:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Where would a believer who believes in god, reveres Jesus but doesnt believe accepting him as god absolves all sins, and isn;t a Jew or Muslim, fit in? What do you do? Follow th 10 commandments, heed the books, and hope for the best? Is there no church or community?

Not worried about about making into heaven or getting sent to hell, but seeing the religious and spiritually-centered life or its own virtue is worth adoption n in itself.




Sounds like someone who doesn't accept the skewed theology that afflicts a lot of the southern splinter churches.

Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus. I can't really put this well, so maybe someone can help me sort it out. Christ is the embodiment of God, filled with the Holy Spirit. He is the ideal, the benchmark if you will, given to mankind by God so as to inspire mere men and lead by example. He is not a substitute for God, but merely one facet of God. A facet of God given to man in a form that is somewhat understandable by man.

Accepting Christ into your life does not mean worshipping him as God, but accepting him as the ideal, studying his teachings and aspiring to live in his footsteps. Simply saying "I love Jesus" doesn't get you a free ticket into Heaven. However, if you study and understand his teachings, you will develop a love for God and a deep respect for the lengths that Jesus went to in order to provide an ideal for mankind. God helps those who help themselves, and the teachings left by Jesus are his direction and assistance so that man may become cleansed of sin.

If you've studied His teachings enough so that you recognize the immediate benefits of living by his teachings, you are well down the road already. To quote Aristotle, although a little before the time period in question, "That I do without being commanded, what others do from fear of the laws."

As far as church or community, I haven't had any luck either. Religion is a sticky point with a lot of people. Waiting for others to come down on me with both feet for this post...
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 10:50:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/4/2006 10:53:46 PM EDT by raven]
All well and good. I totally see what you are saying. But the essence ,the primary thing about Christianity is that Christ himself is the manifestation of god, and by swearing to that and believing that , you abolve the inherent sin of your existence.

I basically know god is exists, but I have a hard time following the Christina line. And the Muslim line. And I am not a Jew. So as a belieiver of Abraham's god and Moses's Law, But I dont believe Jesus's claim, where do I fit in?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 11:21:17 PM EDT
Disclaimer here: I'm not a priest or in any other way qualified to dispense this advice, but on the other hand, this is the internet.

The key is in how you approach reading the Bible. If you approach it with the view that God is far more vast and complex than man is capable of understanding, and accept the statements contained within as an incomplete view of God written for the understanding of man, you allow yourself more flexibility in analyzing the statements within. Think about what "inherent sin" might mean.

On the other hand, if you assume that man can understand God completely and that the Bible is a literal instruction manual and must be followed blindly step by step, you straightjacket yourself. In my opinion, this is the height of arrogance, for if man could totally understand God, then could he not replace Him? Not only is it arrogance, but also a waste of man's God-given intellect.

It comes down to how strictly you interpret the "His own image" passage. There are some factors to discount a strictly literal interpretation. For one, humanity is vastly resourceful and anything we can understand, we will soon tame or conquer. I don't see humanity taming or conquering it's own Creator. We aren't doing it any time soon and there are serious doubts among many that we'd ever be able to do it. Do you think we'll be up to the task of creating a universe any time soon?

I really don't speak for God though. All I know is that I don't understand him. So in that, your guess is as good as mine.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:08:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Even though I think the god of Abraham is for real? And I sincerely believe in him and obey Mosiac law?

I cant honestly say I'm a cHristian though, in the hoest sense of the word. It intellectually makes no sense to me. And I'd adhere to something thing else, but there is nothing else for the likes of me.



I guess I'm more or less in the same boat as you.
Some people have called it "Deism"
I call it "Abrahamic Monotheism" - I believe in God, Christ, and the Bible, but I'm not really sure of all the details.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:22:00 AM EDT
Anglican. They take anybody . You sound closer to Islam. Do you like to kill people over cartoons? Islam claims to believe in Jesus but deny he is the Son of God. Islam is "eye for an eye" like the Jews. They claim to be Abrahamic.

Maybe you could start your own church. Call it Christians against Christ. "We believe in Jesus but don't "could be your motto.

Christian Science maybe?

You may be on your own on this one.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:18:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:20:47 AM EDT by raven]
Islam thinks of itself as the 3.0 version of Abrahamic religion. It's main flaw though is that Mohammed wasn't a prophet (or at least I really really really doubt he was), and Allah is a weird amalgamation of Abraham's lord and a pagan moon deity worshipped among many others in Mecca. Mohammed merged these religions and said this moon god WAS Abraham's god, and he was the greatest (Allahu ackbar)
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 10:49:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Where would a believer who believes in god, reveres Jesus but doesnt believe accepting him as god . . .



Personally, I would say that puts him in good company with Jesus. Jesus knew he wasn't God. He worshipped a God in heaven, the Father. Putting Jesus in the Godhead negates the entire old testament and it runs counter to Jesus' teaching.

A lot of this has been covered in detail in recent threads. We have discussed at length whether Jesus is God or not. You can find a lot of that discussion in the threads "What is a Christian" and "Is this common in the Catholic Church" among others.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 7:22:20 PM EDT
Thanks, I will
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:04:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Thanks, I will




I probably should be clear and say that those other threads only address the part of your question where you suggested that Christians must believe that Jesus is God. THey won't address the part that says:


"What do you do? Follow th 10 commandments, heed the books, and hope for the best? Is there no church or community?

Not worried about about making into heaven or getting sent to hell, but seeing the religious and spiritually-centered life or its own virtue is worth adoption n in itself."



To "heed the books" and living a spiritually-centered life requires prefering the creator over the creation. It requires laying aside self and elevating God. To be a CHristian also requires accepting Christ — accepting the word and spirit that he manifested and making it you. In Paul's words, you must crucify the old man and put on a new man. That new man is Christ in you.

That doesn't mean that you bellieve that Jesus is God. In fact, I believe it specifically requires that you NOT believe that (though most others clearly disagree). But it's not just a feel-good existance either. WHen you "heed the books" you'll read about suffering, battles, warfare and discipleship. THat process will produce "virture worth adoption in itself" but it ain't a cake walk.


Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:32:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 6:39:06 AM EDT by Dino]

Originally Posted By raven:
Where would a believer who believes in god, reveres Jesus but doesnt believe accepting him as god absolves all sins, and isn;t a Jew or Muslim, fit in? What do you do? Follow th 10 commandments, heed the books, and hope for the best? Is there no church or community?

Not worried about about making into heaven or getting sent to hell, but seeing the religious and spiritually-centered life or its own virtue is worth adoption n in itself.




Sounds to me like you are a Christian Unitarian

www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/


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