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Posted: 2/18/2006 2:01:56 AM EDT
I know some people say animals can't or don't go to Heaven, or that they don't have souls.
I believe they do.
I consider a soul who I am, my thoughts that make up me, cut off my hands or legs and I'm still me because who I really am is spiritual, not flesh, that to me is a soul. I consider animals to have these exact thoughts and emotions and traits, but of course intelligence wise overall mostly lower.
I believe they go to Heaven.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 7:58:34 AM EDT
All animals, or just "pets"?

If you truely believe what you posted applies to *all* animals, is turning betsy the cow into hamburger the equivalent of murder? What about eating eggs? That ok? After all, they're unborn animals.

I suspect that you, as most people I've talked to that claim animals go to heaven, are only talking about "pets" and more specifically, *YOUR* pets, since to apply your reasoning to all animals would be to say that PETA is right and that we should all be vegans.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:15:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I know some people say animals can't or don't go to Heaven, or that they don't have souls.
I believe they do.
I consider a soul who I am, my thoughts that make up me, cut off my hands or legs and I'm still me because who I really am is spiritual, not flesh, that to me is a soul. I consider animals to have these exact thoughts and emotions and traits, but of course intelligence wise overall mostly lower.
I believe they go to Heaven.



Here are of my thoughts on the subject.

In Christianity you dont get into heaven because you posses a soul. The only way is through Christ. Do animals have the capacity to accept Christ? Do they posses faith? Would them getting in take away from the significance of JC's sacrifice?

On the other hand, why were animals sufficient sacrifice in the OT? Was it purely to foreshadow Christ, or because they were sinless too? or because they were souless? The bible does mention animals, or "beasts" in heaven, but these are creatures unlike were have here on earth. They can speak and praise God.

blah blah blah, i dont mean to shit on your parade
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 8:38:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xjronx:

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I know some people say animals can't or don't go to Heaven, or that they don't have souls.
I believe they do.
I consider a soul who I am, my thoughts that make up me, cut off my hands or legs and I'm still me because who I really am is spiritual, not flesh, that to me is a soul. I consider animals to have these exact thoughts and emotions and traits, but of course intelligence wise overall mostly lower.
I believe they go to Heaven.



Here are of my thoughts on the subject.

In Christianity you dont get into heaven because you posses a soul. The only way is through Christ. Do animals have the capacity to accept Christ? Do they posses faith? Would them getting in take away from the significance of JC's sacrifice?

On the other hand, why were animals sufficient sacrifice in the OT? Was it purely to foreshadow Christ, or because they were sinless too? or because they were souless? The bible does mention animals, or "beasts" in heaven, but these are creatures unlike were have here on earth. They can speak and praise God.

blah blah blah, i dont mean to shit on your parade



___

"In Christianity you dont get into heaven because you posses a soul. The only way is through Christ."

__

Jews to the cattle cars!!


Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:04:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By xjronx:

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I know some people say animals can't or don't go to Heaven, or that they don't have souls.
I believe they do.
I consider a soul who I am, my thoughts that make up me, cut off my hands or legs and I'm still me because who I really am is spiritual, not flesh, that to me is a soul. I consider animals to have these exact thoughts and emotions and traits, but of course intelligence wise overall mostly lower.
I believe they go to Heaven.



Here are of my thoughts on the subject.

In Christianity you dont get into heaven because you posses a soul. The only way is through Christ. Do animals have the capacity to accept Christ? Do they posses faith? Would them getting in take away from the significance of JC's sacrifice?

On the other hand, why were animals sufficient sacrifice in the OT? Was it purely to foreshadow Christ, or because they were sinless too? or because they were souless? The bible does mention animals, or "beasts" in heaven, but these are creatures unlike were have here on earth. They can speak and praise God.

blah blah blah, i dont mean to shit on your parade



___

"In Christianity you dont get into heaven because you posses a soul. The only way is through Christ."

__

Jews to the cattle cars!!





Yep scuba_ed, your people and my people are going to hell even if we are good-hearted,devout monotheists;I believe, as a Muslim(even though I am pretty lapsed in my faith) that you get to heaven based upon your deeds in this world. Be a good person, believe in Allah/God, you go to heaven, this is all that applies to non-Muslims; for Muslims we still have to do the former, but we have the added obligation of following Shari`a and following the 5 pillars of our faith.

As for animals in heaven... since everything has a soul in Islam, I would presume that we would see animals in Paradise; however, I cannot answer with 100% certainty.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:30:43 PM EDT
The concept of heaven as it is presented on most cases, if not all, is an alien concept to traditional Jewish though. So I am not all the concearned with going to heaven anyways. And the Idea that I can get to heaven by believing a certain way solves a problem I never had
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:33:44 PM EDT
Only if I can eat 'em....
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:21:53 PM EDT
All animals, or just "pets"?

I believe all animals, I didn't write anything about just pets, peta or being a vegetarian.
You suspect wrong.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:32:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 5:33:48 PM EDT by barkley-addict]
"The only way is through Christ. Do animals have the capacity to accept Christ? Do they posses faith? Would them getting in take away from the significance of JC's sacrifice?"

In my opinion not at all, Jesus lived to save sinners. I don't believe animals are sinners and don't have the intellect to be. As far as I know man messed up living among God directly in the garden of eden and all creation.
It seems to me it could be considered along the lines of "from those who have been given much, much is expected...."
I read someone's argument against animals in Heaven 1 time that suggested that why should animals get into Heaven before men. My thought is simply that Jesus Christ died for the sin of everyone, all people have "the" way to Heaven before them, and any man who doesn't get into Heaven doesn't get there because of their personal doings.
Qustion I have is why shouldn't animals enjoy Heaven and life as God intended it just because of that which the condemed do. Why should those who condem themselves bring down all of God's creatures with them?
The condemed condem themselves, not others or everything else.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:14:05 PM EDT
Sorry dude......
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 9:16:20 PM EDT
nothing to be sorry about, somehow I don't think the plans and intentions of an almight God are subject to popular opinions on message boards, much less the actions of individuals.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 2:23:39 PM EDT
Animals are fully realized creatures here on earth. In effect, they are "PERFECT." They are all God intended them to be. As such, they are in heaven WHILE they are on earth doing their animal thing.

But that being said, all animals have available to them is a "breath of life" depth of spirit. They cannot progress any further. In this sense they are like Man which does not seek after God and embaraces and seeks nothing more than the breath of life God breathed into him. Solomon told us the fate of that man.

Ec 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:35:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
All animals, or just "pets"?

I believe all animals, I didn't write anything about just pets, peta or being a vegetarian.
You suspect wrong.



Not bashing, just trying to apply logic (I know, religion forum, wrong place for that)

You belive all animals have souls, like men, but they lack intelligence, correct? After all, you say animals "have these exact thoughts and emotions and traits, but of course intelligence wise overall mostly lower".

Therefore, is killing an animal the same as murder? If not, why do humans deserve special protection (ie, laws against murder) when you claim they have a soul, and the same thoughts and emotions and traits as humans?


I honestly don't expect an answer -- I should know better than to try to apply logic to religion.
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