Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Since Jesus says that our resurrection bodies will be like the bodies of angels does that mean we will all be male in the resurrection? Yes, in our fathers image. No need for marriage, brothers one and all. Wow, Shaffer, that sounds like what the Gnostics preached.  They stated that women couldn't enter Heaven unless they became men.  Read the Gospel of Thomas, have you? Is that where you're getting all of your other off-the-wall ideas?  From ancient heresies? Never did I state that those souls that inhabit the female form of this flesh world could not enter Heaven. I said that the new body that which all those that inherit the kingdom heaven are given, will most likely be of masculine form as it is referred to with the emphasis of the male gender of the angelic body. Please obtain a Strong’s, you will see this pointed out in the definitions of those words which this deals with this like "sons of god". Flesh woman was a new form created from man, not the direct image or pattern of the angels or God.

So... you're saying that heaven is a sausage-fest?!?  I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.  I have to agree that the obsession with the penis among some religious folks is rather disturbing.  

That said, I'd venture that the Nephillim are the offspring of Fallen Angels and humans.  Back in the day, when man was supersticious and unscientific, they (the fallen angels) came as gods (i.e. greek and roman mythology, ezekiel's wheel, etc) in order to draw men away from worshipping God.  Now that we are scientific and "enlightened" they come as something else... to draw us further into our own arrogance so that we worship something other than God.

Do you REALLY believe that aliens have bothered with abducting people and flying around our atmosphere for 50-odd years to "study us?"  Yeah, right.  

As in the days of Noah, so shall be the time of the end.  

The question of the nephillim is not so important as "who were their sires?  and why did they do what they did?"
Matt

Quoted: Wdsman, I am at a loss as to where you came up with exepatesen / exapataomai?  In the Septuagint the Greek word is exapatao, from Strong`s 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive. The Companion Bible a 1611 KJ also makes reference to exapatao for this verse.

OK, reread the post and you can tell where I got exepatesen - II Cor. 11:3 in the original language.  (BTW, the Septuagint is the Greek translation of the OT and might have reference to the Genesis passage, but Corinthians ain't in it).  exepatesen is the 3 person singular first aorist indicitive active of exapatao (I added the mai when I tried to go from memory rather than use a reference. That was a mistake).  The meaning of exapatao is to "decieve or delude thoroughly" nothing about sex involved.  

Every word has what linguists call a semantic range.  For example our word "rifle" can mean 1) a long barreled firearm  2) to place rifling in the barrel of such 3) to steal.  (These are not strict definitions, just to make a point).  

Now suppose someone on the board says they are a sniper.  You look up sniper and see one of the synonyms is "rifleman."  Now you go to the definition for rifle and find out it can mean "to steal"  You then come out and say they've admitted to being a thief.  Ridiculous, correct!

What you are doing is taking the Greek word exepatao, which can mean seduce.  Then you are taking the English word seduce, which can imply sexuality.  BUT at this point you have left the meaning of the original word.  exepatao means to decieve.  Seduce can mean to deceive.  That is where the semantic ranges overlap.  But to say exepatao implies sexuality, just because one of its synonyms does is bogus.

Ok, I’ll give you two. God is speaking to Satan, who is symbolized in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in the garden. Genesis   3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Seed: Strong’s 2233 zera`; posterity: child. Who was Satan’s child? Cain, his actions alone will identify who his father was. Think about what God told him after he murdered Abel. Christ is identifying who the tares are, and who their father is. Matt.13 [36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. [37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; [38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; [39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Sowed: from Strong’s 4687 speiro; to scatter. Ok, follow along, if you look up seed Strong’s 4690 as used in verse 37 you will find it from 4687, sperma; something sown, i.e. seed, including the male “sperm”  by implying offspring. So Satan has earthly children from his seduction of Eve.  Now I do not expect anyone to accept that right away, but just chew on it for a while. Check it out. If you do not agree that is fine by me, I do not wish to argue with fellow Christians.

Just because sperma can mean seed and it can also mean male sperm doesn't mean that Satan is spreading his sperm all over.

The Semitic concept of father/son relationships had more to do with character traits than with genetics.

For example,  Paul calls Timothy his "son in the faith." Does that mean Paul slept with Timothy's mom? Barnabas means "son of encouragement."  Does that mean that the abstract idea encouragement became flesh and slept with Barnabas' mom?  Jesus tells a group of Jews that their father is Satan (John 8:44)  In the context he makes it clear he is not talking about genetics he is talking about behavior.

You don't have to trace your family tree back to Satan to part of Satan's seed.  You just have to act like him.

Quoted: ....Just because sperma can mean seed and it can also mean male sperm doesn't mean that Satan is spreading his sperm all over. The Semitic concept of father/son relationships had more to do with character traits than with genetics. For example,  Paul calls Timothy his "son in the faith." Does that mean Paul slept with Timothy's mom? Barnabas means "son of encouragement."  Does that mean that the abstract idea encouragement became flesh and slept with Barnabas' mom?  Jesus tells a group of Jews that their father is Satan (John 8:44)  In the context he makes it clear he is not talking about genetics he is talking about behavior. You don't have to trace your family tree back to Satan to part of Satan's seed.  You just have to act like him.

You make good points.  I would like to point out another example from the OT.  Ben-oni means son of my sorrow or pain.  Jacob however called him Ben-jamin meaning son of my right hand.  Pain/sorrow nor Jacob's right hand begott Benjamin and so as Wdsman pointed out "son" often refers to something other than father/son relationship.

Shok

The question of the nephillim is not so important as "who were their sires? and why did they do what they did?"

Good questions.  I believe the Nephilim/Anunnaki were just humans of human parentage.  I think they were from the east, Oriental.  They looked and acted differently than the indigenous Mesopotamians and thus were called "subtle serpents". I think they had a more highly developed civilization than the indigenous Mesopotamians.

I belive they migrated into Mesopotamia following the eruption of the Mt Toba supervolcano in Sumatra approximately 74,000 years ago which reduced the estimated human population on the earth to near extinction levels.  Tribal memories of this volcanic cataclysm were preserved as stories of Lakes of Fire in the Book of Enoch.

Having a more advanced civilization than the indigenous Mesopotamians, the Nephilim/Anunnaki established themselves in postions of power as a royal dynasty because they could.  They interbred with the indegenous Mesopotamians because inbreeding and high rates of birth defects are the likely result of limiting one's gene pool, especially when human population levels have already been reduced to near extinction levels.

Being royal, oriental despots they took the Eastern Star as their symbol and took full advantage of any myths concerning their alleged divine descent as Sons of God to proclaim themselves actual Sons of God and divine right monarchs.  They're not above reasserting such claims today though, again, they're only has human as the rest of us.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Since Jesus says that our resurrection bodies will be like the bodies of angels does that mean we will all be male in the resurrection? Yes, in our fathers image. No need for marriage, brothers one and all. Wow, Shaffer, that sounds like what the Gnostics preached.  They stated that women couldn't enter Heaven unless they became men.  Read the Gospel of Thomas, have you? Is that where you're getting all of your other off-the-wall ideas?  From ancient heresies? Never did I state that those souls that inhabit the female form of this flesh world could not enter Heaven. I said that the new body that which all those that inherit the kingdom heaven are given, will most likely be of masculine form as it is referred to with the emphasis of the male gender of the angelic body. Please obtain a Strong’s, you will see this pointed out in the definitions of those words which this deals with this like "sons of god". Flesh woman was a new form created from man, not the direct image or pattern of the angels or God. So... you're saying that heaven is a sausage-fest?!?  I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you there.  I have to agree that the obsession with the penis among some religious folks is rather disturbing.   Never, and where did you get that from my statement? Thats just sick, Gods children having sex in heaven where did you get that? Your not looking for seventy virgins when you get their are you? But your still not getting the fact that it is infered that the bodys that the soul occupies is of a likeness of the male form/gender. That said, I'd venture that the Nephillim are the offspring of Fallen Angels and humans.  Back in the day, when man was supersticious and unscientific, they (the fallen angels) came as gods (i.e. greek and roman mythology, ezekiel's wheel, etc) in order to draw men away from worshipping God.  Now that we are scientific and "enlightened" they come as something else... to draw us further into our own arrogance so that we worship something other than God. Yes, but to also destroy the blood line of Christ. Do you REALLY believe that aliens have bothered with abducting people and flying around our atmosphere for 50-odd years to "study us?"  Yeah, right.   Never, we are it in the universe, no other "worlds". As in the days of Noah, so shall be the time of the end.   Exactly, with all the evil and wickedness. The question of the nephillim is not so important as "who were their sires?  and why did they do what they did?" Matt But it is important who sired them, or God would not have told you. But why? Again, to destroy the blood line that Christ would come.

Quoted: Quoted: Wdsman, I am at a loss as to where you came up with exepatesen / exapataomai?  In the Septuagint the Greek word is exapatao, from Strong`s 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive. The Companion Bible a 1611 KJ also makes reference to exapatao for this verse. OK, reread the post and you can tell where I got exepatesen - II Cor. 11:3 in the original language.  (BTW, the Septuagint is the Greek translation of the OT and might have reference to the Genesis passage, but Corinthians ain't in it).  exepatesen is the 3 person singular first aorist indicitive active of exapatao (I added the mai when I tried to go from memory rather than use a reference. That was a mistake).  The meaning of exapatao is to "decieve or delude thoroughly" nothing about sex involved.   Every word has what linguists call a semantic range.  For example our word "rifle" can mean 1) a long barreled firearm  2) to place rifling in the barrel of such 3) to steal.  (These are not strict definitions, just to make a point).   Now suppose someone on the board says they are a sniper.  You look up sniper and see one of the synonyms is "rifleman."  Now you go to the definition for rifle and find out it can mean "to steal"  You then come out and say they've admitted to being a thief.  Ridiculous, correct! What you are doing is taking the Greek word exepatao, which can mean seduce.  Then you are taking the English word seduce, which can imply sexuality.  BUT at this point you have left the meaning of the original word.  exepatao means to decieve.  Seduce can mean to deceive.  That is where the semantic ranges overlap.  But to say exepatao implies sexuality, just because one of its synonyms does is bogus. Ok, I’ll give you two. God is speaking to Satan, who is symbolized in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in the garden. Genesis   3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Seed: Strong’s 2233 zera`; posterity: child. Who was Satan’s child? Cain, his actions alone will identify who his father was. Think about what God told him after he murdered Abel. Christ is identifying who the tares are, and who their father is. Matt.13 [36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. [37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; [38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; [39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Sowed: from Strong’s 4687 speiro; to scatter. Ok, follow along, if you look up seed Strong’s 4690 as used in verse 37 you will find it from 4687, sperma; something sown, i.e. seed, including the male “sperm”  by implying offspring. So Satan has earthly children from his seduction of Eve.  Now I do not expect anyone to accept that right away, but just chew on it for a while. Check it out. If you do not agree that is fine by me, I do not wish to argue with fellow Christians. Just because sperma can mean seed and it can also mean male sperm doesn't mean that Satan is spreading his sperm all over. The Semitic concept of father/son relationships had more to do with character traits than with genetics. For example,  Paul calls Timothy his "son in the faith." Does that mean Paul slept with Timothy's mom? Barnabas means "son of encouragement."  Does that mean that the abstract idea encouragement became flesh and slept with Barnabas' mom?  Jesus tells a group of Jews that their father is Satan (John 8:44)  In the context he makes it clear he is not talking about genetics he is talking about behavior. You don't have to trace your family tree back to Satan to part of Satan's seed.  You just have to act like him.

I also am trying to take the word in this verse back into the Greek. The problem is we disagree on its use in that sentence. But  I have several sources that state very clearly the Greek word in II Cor. 11:3 is exapatao and that its correct definition is to seduce wholly as used in that sentence. They include but are not limited to…..

The Companion Bible 1611 KJ (notes the use of exapatao)

Strong’s Concordance (Strong’s #1818 Greek dictionary, with the complete definition)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1136479045-3731.html#3 (notes  the use of exapatao in this verse)

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wdsman, I am at a loss as to where you came up with exepatesen / exapataomai?  In the Septuagint the Greek word is exapatao, from Strong`s 1537 and 538; to seduce wholly: - beguile, deceive. The Companion Bible a 1611 KJ also makes reference to exapatao for this verse. OK, reread the post and you can tell where I got exepatesen - II Cor. 11:3 in the original language.  (BTW, the Septuagint is the Greek translation of the OT and might have reference to the Genesis passage, but Corinthians ain't in it).  exepatesen is the 3 person singular first aorist indicitive active of exapatao (I added the mai when I tried to go from memory rather than use a reference. That was a mistake).  The meaning of exapatao is to "decieve or delude thoroughly" nothing about sex involved.   Every word has what linguists call a semantic range.  For example our word "rifle" can mean 1) a long barreled firearm  2) to place rifling in the barrel of such 3) to steal.  (These are not strict definitions, just to make a point).   Now suppose someone on the board says they are a sniper.  You look up sniper and see one of the synonyms is "rifleman."  Now you go to the definition for rifle and find out it can mean "to steal"  You then come out and say they've admitted to being a thief.  Ridiculous, correct! What you are doing is taking the Greek word exepatao, which can mean seduce.  Then you are taking the English word seduce, which can imply sexuality.  BUT at this point you have left the meaning of the original word.  exepatao means to decieve.  Seduce can mean to deceive.  That is where the semantic ranges overlap.  But to say exepatao implies sexuality, just because one of its synonyms does is bogus. Ok, I’ll give you two. God is speaking to Satan, who is symbolized in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, in the garden. Genesis   3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Seed: Strong’s 2233 zera`; posterity: child. Who was Satan’s child? Cain, his actions alone will identify who his father was. Think about what God told him after he murdered Abel. Christ is identifying who the tares are, and who their father is. Matt.13 [36] Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. [37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; [38] The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; [39] The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. [40] As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Sowed: from Strong’s 4687 speiro; to scatter. Ok, follow along, if you look up seed Strong’s 4690 as used in verse 37 you will find it from 4687, sperma; something sown, i.e. seed, including the male “sperm”  by implying offspring. So Satan has earthly children from his seduction of Eve.  Now I do not expect anyone to accept that right away, but just chew on it for a while. Check it out. If you do not agree that is fine by me, I do not wish to argue with fellow Christians. Just because sperma can mean seed and it can also mean male sperm doesn't mean that Satan is spreading his sperm all over. The Semitic concept of father/son relationships had more to do with character traits than with genetics. For example,  Paul calls Timothy his "son in the faith." Does that mean Paul slept with Timothy's mom? Barnabas means "son of encouragement."  Does that mean that the abstract idea encouragement became flesh and slept with Barnabas' mom?  Jesus tells a group of Jews that their father is Satan (John 8:44)  In the context he makes it clear he is not talking about genetics he is talking about behavior. You don't have to trace your family tree back to Satan to part of Satan's seed.  You just have to act like him. I also am trying to take the word in this verse back into the Greek. The problem is we disagree on its use in that sentence. But  I have several sources that state very clearly the Greek word in II Cor. 11:3 is exapatao and that its correct definition is to seduce wholly as used in that sentence. They include but are not limited to….. The Companion Bible 1611 KJ (notes the use of exapatao) Strong’s Concordance (Strong’s #1818 Greek dictionary, with the complete definition) http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1136479045-3731.html#3 (notes  the use of exapatao in this verse)

Please read carefully!  I said that the root word was exapatao!  I just parsed it for you.  It's like the difference between run, ran and running.  I gave you the person, number, tense etc.

The bottom line is exapatao doesn't imply sex!  Even seduce in English doesn't imply sex.

Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary says

seduce  fr. L to lead away 1.  to persuade to disobedience or disloyalty   2.  to lead astray usually by perusasion or false promises  3.  to carry out the physical seduction of perusasion

Notice even today, physical seduction is the third most common definition of the word.  One of the rules of interpretation is that you don't assume an unlikely definition unless the context makes it CLEAR that you should.  

You are building your entire argument on the tertiary definition of an English word listed as one of three possibilities for the translation of a particular text.  That is an EXTREMELY weak argument.

Perhaps the Targum of Jonathan is the source of this misconception?  From what I've read Targum's can be allegorical at best and easily misinterpreted.

Targum of Jonathan

VI.   And it was when the sons of men began to multiply upon the face of the earth, and fair daughters were born to them; and the sons of the great saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and painted, and curled, walking with revelation of the flesh, and with imaginations of wickedness; that they took them wives of all who pleased them. And the Lord said by His Word, All the generations of the wicked which are to arise shall not be purged after the order of the judgments of the generation of the deluge, which shall be destroyed and exterminated from the midst of the world. Have I not imparted My Holy Spirit to them, (or, placed My Holy Spirit in them,) that they may work good works? And, behold, their works are wicked. Behold, I will give them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance, and not perish.

[JERUSALEM. And the Word of the Lord said, The generations which are to arise shall not be judged after (the manner of) the generation of the deluge, (which is) to be destroyed, and exterminated, and finally blotted out. Have I not imparted My Spirit to the sons of men, because they are flesh, that they may work good works? But they do works of evil. Behold, I have given them a prolongment of a hundred and twenty years, that they may work repentance; but they have not done it.]

Schamchazai and Uzziel, who fell from heaven, were on the earth in those days; and also, after the sons of the Great had gone in with the daughters of men, they bare to them: and these are they who are called men who are of the world, men of names.

Maybe it also came from the Quran and the Story of Harut and Marut who fell from heaven?

Quran (Surah II., Al Baqarah, 96)

"Solomon did not disbelieve, but the Devils disbelieved. And they teach men sorcery and what had been sent down unto the two angels in Babel, Harut and Marut. And they teach not anyone until they both say, ‘Verily we are Rebellion, therefore do not thou disbelieve.’"

Our bible never says that angels mated with women or that the nephilim were angels.

Shok