Quoted: 2.  Second, in this paragraph it sounds like you are just claiming that the Pope is the RCC's organizational leader and that his authority does not extend to other Christians.  If that's the case it's kind of hard to argue with you.  But, you don't mean that do you?  If there is only one church and if the pope is the ultimate authority in that church, then all who call themselves Christians need to submit to that authority.  There's a big difference between universal spiritual authority and limited organizational leadership.  Which is it?

I am refering in this case here strickly as an organizational leader.

And yes this was about the physical location  of Peter,

ETH tends to try to turn a person words into meaning something they are not.

Quoted: This is the issue and the burden of proof is on DarkHalf.  DH can you show us in Scripture where the office of pope is established, where any provision for succession is made, where that office is connected with the city of Rome?

That was not the point of this thread.  But as you have stated there were early leaders and elders of the church during the first century.

It stands to reason that as time goes on and as an organization grows that changes and structure within that organization grow to accoummidate the needs of the group.  We see many examples of this occuring early on in Acts.  Churches get formed, and then certain people are chosen (not by God but man) to be sent out and visit those churches.

It would be silly to think that growth and change was not needed as the church continued to grow IMHO.

Also in Acts we read many examples of new converts coming to the apostiles for baptism as so forth and again being sent out to preach.  Paul is one of those examples.

Quoted: IF, IF, IF...... There was NO such position as pope/vicar/whatever established by Jesus Christ or by the Scriptures. The position of 'Elders' does have Scriptural basis. Simply because some men cannot 'contain' themselves is no condemnation of the office of Elder, but simply a condemnation of the sinful holder of such office.

How hard is for you to understand that the Pope is the elder of the RCC?


You amaze me at times ETH.

Quoted: Quoted: 2.  Second, in this paragraph it sounds like you are just claiming that the Pope is the RCC's organizational leader and that his authority does not extend to other Christians.  If that's the case it's kind of hard to argue with you.  But, you don't mean that do you?  If there is only one church and if the pope is the ultimate authority in that church, then all who call themselves Christians need to submit to that authority.  There's a big difference between universal spiritual authority and limited organizational leadership.  Which is it? I am refering in this case here strickly as an organizational leader.

The bishop of Rome is the 'organizational leader' of the Roman denomination.

Who here is arguing with that simple proposition?

And yes this was about the physical location  of Peter,

Is there any other reason, besides mere curiosity, that you would try and place St. Peter's location in Rome and not elsewhere?

Come, be honest.

ETH tends to try to turn a person words into meaning something they are not.

It's very difficult to 'try and turn' a person's words into something else IF those words are clear, concise, and to the point.

'Fuzzy' words can be made to mean anything.

Eric The(Vernacular)Hun

Quoted:

How hard is for you to understand that the Pope is the elder of the RCC?

As before, that simple proposition is obvious.

The Roman denomination has full liberty to choose its own leaders.

No doubt about that.

You amaze me at times ETH.

That's only because I am amazing.



Eric The(AlmostIncredible)Hun