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Posted: 12/22/2005 8:10:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/22/2005 8:11:00 PM EDT by niceguymr]
Without getting into too many details, I cannot mary someone who is not Jewish, although I don't consider myself to be very religous at all. I go to temple twice a year, and celebrate the major holidays with my family.

My girlfriend is Catholic and equally not religous. Our relationship is moving forward quite strongly, but we've encountered our first major challenge. Unlike many women who I've known who've graciously accepted the idea of converting to Judaism for their Jewish husbands, she doesn't seem to take to kindly to the idea. For some reason, she somewhat hostilly opposing the idea (although she contemplated it in the past with me previoiusly) Basically, her argument is why should SHE be the one expected to convert instead of me. I have a difficult time articulating the correct explanation, although it has more to do with traditional & family values than anything else. One interesting argument she posed is that her mother feels its a bad idea b/c she believes that Jews are targets for terrorists and are generally hated around the world. Her mother was raised Catholic in Panama, but has lived mostly in Virginia. My girlfriend seems to think she will be alienated by her family and friends for converting, but I think their fears are unfounded and they are trying to use fear as a means to stop her from considering it, rather than religious values.

I love this girl but I don't want my kids to grow up in a multi-religous home. Plus, I want her to be comfortable attending religous events with my family just as I have offered to do with hers. I told her I simply want to have a Jewish home and have kids that grow up Jewish. I told her I would gladly participate with her family in the Christmas holidays and the like, but not in my (our) home.

Has anyone had this dilema and how have they sucessfully dealt with it?
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 4:14:38 AM EDT
You are in a tough place, MrsWind was brought up, Italian Roman Catholic, until right before confirmation, when the Priest told her ot make a choice, CCD class or her mother who might be dying in the Hospital...He wasn't ver happy with the FU Father.....as she walked out. She was thinking about converting to Judiasm, I am Reform, until our son was StillBorn and the Temple sort of ignored it. She was deeply hurt. Sher could not understand that they were old time Jews and believed that the soul did not come to the body until 30 days.

We had been married in her mother's yard by my Rabbi, we went to temple together, but were married even though she was not a convert at the time. There is a Rabbi around you that will marry you...If she is non practicing, you do have a dilemia, as she could become ardent when children are involved. But she could also decide to change back..as in life you take chances.

The question is do you love her enough to overlook her being a Christian? As you start your life together, will she see you as a Jew or her husband. If you don't practice, what will you do for children.
We work as a coupole, I will educate our daughter as a Jew, she was Named in the Temple. She will know about Christianity, as she hears about Jesus from school friends. She is very smart and will make her mind up.

I was born a Celt, I questioned my Christian upbringing, then found what I felt, that the Celts were Jews for several centuries. I take it you won't marry her as a non Jew because of your religious beliefs, you should take alook into them. If they are strong enough to determine who you marry, you might look to becoming more active in your congreation and finding a Jewish women with your beliefs. For a marriage to work you need two partners on the same page. Just converting to Judiasm won't make her a Jew, she hasto do it becasue of her heart..I came home soley for beliefs, there was no woman involved...I have seen some good marriages where the woman converted, but they are both partners.

Judiasm is about family and community, that is what must be strong, a conversion for the wrong reason won't help a marriage, love and trust will,..
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:34:47 AM EDT
Celts = Jews.



Yeah.

Eric The(Historical)Hun
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:39:59 AM EDT
It can be done. My younger brother (Catholic) just married a Jewish girl last May. No problems.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:46:42 AM EDT
You could always become Catholic -- it works both ways you know.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 6:47:03 AM EDT
I wouldn't expect her to convert to judaism.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:00:24 AM EDT
just ditch both religions, you are both not very into it obviously so screw the hassle and forget them both.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:08:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 10:21:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 10:25:10 AM EDT by usma89]
So you are asking her to renounce Jesus Christ to marry you? As a 17 year vet of marriage, it is about give and take. You are all take and no give, you might want to rethink YOUR position. If you cannot respect her beliefs, you have no business getting married.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 11:42:31 AM EDT
Yes ETH...Jesus founded churches in the Isles, his family intermarried with the ArchDruid, If you wish more light, I can help you
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:31:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheWind:
Yes ETH...Jesus founded churches in the Isles, his family intermarried with the ArchDruid, If you wish more light, I can help you



I recently asked a question about how Jews could prove they were of the priestly family. Cohen was mentioned as the name of the family in modern times. Thats an Irish name right?


I'm interested in hearing more, if you would be willing to post it.

Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:36:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2005 3:39:07 PM EDT by GUNGUY1911]

Originally Posted By usma89:
So you are asking her to renounce Jesus Christ to marry you? As a 17 year vet of marriage, it is about give and take. You are all take and no give, you might want to rethink YOUR position. If you cannot respect her beliefs, you have no business getting married.

Pretty clear if you ask me! Couple that with the fact that you both seem token religious, why should either of you force your religion over the other! Just quit both and become Scientologists!()
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 3:44:09 PM EDT
If you cant articulate why she should convert instead of you, then you don't have a real reason why to start with.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:20:51 PM EDT
niceguymr,

I feel deeply for both of you. You both have put yourselves in very difficult circumstances. I'm sorry that I can't offer you an easy solution, and since your question is specifically directed to Jewish converts it isn't directed to me.

This is one reason, when dating, to find someone that shares similar upbringing, priorities, beliefs/religion, standards, etc. Marriage by its very nature involves a lot of adapting and work, since no two people are exactly alike. Throw a monkeywrench into the works like vastly differing religious values/backgrounds, and you're in for a boatload of hurt.

If neither of you is ready to change religion, I suggest that you end it amicably and move on.
Link Posted: 12/23/2005 7:32:47 PM EDT
Wow, now I have read everything. You think she is on a different site asking advice on your relationship from a bunch of strangers?

Merry Christmas
Link Posted: 12/24/2005 4:17:10 AM EDT
Dino, I recall something about genitic markers, youhave to be of the line on both sides I think, so you would need a few thousand years of a family tree. That wqould be to be a priest, or High Priest.
If you wanted to just know of if you were a descendent, you woul dneed a list of the derivative names. as Caan, Kahane, Cohane, and on and on. THere was a alot of name changeing witht he Jewish people
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:49:06 PM EDT
The central thing that ties our marriage together is our faith. Both Ekie and myself are of the Christian faith. We are "practicing" Christians. Many, many things in our lives are tied to this bond. How we celebrate holidays, how we raise our children, the choices we make. The list is endless.

If you desire to marry a Jewish woman, then you need to date Jewish women. If it is so important to you, perhaps you need to reassess and embrace your faith wholeheartedly....and look for the perfect Jewish woman for you!!

If you are not planning on having children, I do think you could perhaps have a harmonious marriage, even with marrying outside of your faith. But, children do funny things to you. Once you have that precious bundle in your arms you will feel differently about your religion, heritage and the things you want to teach your children. You will all of a sudden want to embrace your Jewish heritage and your wife would want to embrace her Catholic heritage! A nightmare in raising children.

Please consider this earnestly. In marriage, love is not enough to sustain. You must be on the same page on so many things to make it work. You must be in unison on religion, how to handle the finances, raising the children, making decisions. It is very complicated.

I wish you the best. Marriage can be the most wonderful thing. Choose wisely my friend.

Mrs. Ekie,
Proud wife to Ekie and mother to our glorious 4 children!
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:51:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2005 6:07:15 AM EDT by VA-gunnut]
***Edited<va-gunnut>***
Link Posted: 12/25/2005 7:54:19 PM EDT
She is the wrong person for you.
Link Posted: 12/26/2005 11:11:11 AM EDT
My aunt is jewish and my uncle is catholic, although neither of them are practicing.
They found a rabbi and a priest who would marry them in a dual ceremony.
They have two lovely daughters who each had a Jewish naming ceremony and a christian baptism.
(The baptism was performed in the Anglican church since we will baptize just about anybody.)
Be aware, that when you have kids, religion will suddenly become very important to both of you.
Things you thought were silly, you will decide are important.

Hope this helps.


I love this girl but I don't want my kids to grow up in a multi-religous home. Plus, I want her to be comfortable attending religous events with my family just as I have offered to do with hers. I told her I simply want to have a Jewish home and have kids that grow up Jewish. I told her I would gladly participate with her family in the Christmas holidays and the like, but not in my (our) home.


After reading that - this girl is not right for you.
You need one who will convert over to Judaism.

BTW - I was reading the OT the other day - didn't see any mention of "range reports"
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:15:16 AM EDT
This seems not a wise idea, as potential children will bi involved and, probably torn as much as the parents will be.

Reconsider this marriage.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:27:52 AM EDT
When a person takes their faith seriously it will affect every area of their life.

You say that right now you are both pretty casual on spiritual matters. What would happen when one (or both) of you got serious about applying the principles of your respective faiths to daily life?

A shared, common faith is a good foundation for a marriage. This is an integral part of the "two becoming one."

It sounds like her conversion would cause a rift with her family.

You both need to consider the long-term consequences of a spiritually mixed marriage.
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:42:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slash-5:
She is the wrong person for you.



+1
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 8:56:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/28/2005 8:58:05 AM EDT by livefreeordieNH]
If you are 100% convinced that you "cannot marry someone who is not Jewish" then you don't really have a choice but to move on. You can't expect her to renounce her faith for you when you refuse to make any concessions for her, particularly when you have stated that you aren't even very religious. Marriage is about compromise.

Perhaps you should re-evaluate your priorities.



ETA: is this the girl you posted sex pics of here or was that someone else?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:04:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Without getting into too many details, I cannot mary someone who is not Jewish, although I don't consider myself to be very religous at all. I go to temple twice a year, and celebrate the major holidays with my family.

My girlfriend is Catholic and equally not religous. Our relationship is moving forward quite strongly, but we've encountered our first major challenge. Unlike many women who I've known who've graciously accepted the idea of converting to Judaism for their Jewish husbands, she doesn't seem to take to kindly to the idea. For some reason, she somewhat hostilly opposing the idea (although she contemplated it in the past with me previoiusly) Basically, her argument is why should SHE be the one expected to convert instead of me. I have a difficult time articulating the correct explanation, although it has more to do with traditional & family values than anything else. One interesting argument she posed is that her mother feels its a bad idea b/c she believes that Jews are targets for terrorists and are generally hated around the world. Her mother was raised Catholic in Panama, but has lived mostly in Virginia. My girlfriend seems to think she will be alienated by her family and friends for converting, but I think their fears are unfounded and they are trying to use fear as a means to stop her from considering it, rather than religious values.

I love this girl but I don't want my kids to grow up in a multi-religous home. Plus, I want her to be comfortable attending religous events with my family just as I have offered to do with hers. I told her I simply want to have a Jewish home and have kids that grow up Jewish. I told her I would gladly participate with her family in the Christmas holidays and the like, but not in my (our) home.
Has anyone had this dilema and how have they sucessfully dealt with it?




Gee..is that all you want? Ok, honey...I don't believe in Christmas, but I'll joyfully go along with all the shenanigans at your family if you really want to, but when we get home, Christ will no longer be our savior, and Christmas will cease to exist in our lives.

Happy Chanuka, honey. Now spin your dreidl like a good girl.

WTF?
Link Posted: 12/28/2005 9:09:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By daisywench:

Originally Posted By niceguymr:
Without getting into too many details, I cannot mary someone who is not Jewish, although I don't consider myself to be very religous at all. I go to temple twice a year, and celebrate the major holidays with my family.

My girlfriend is Catholic and equally not religous. Our relationship is moving forward quite strongly, but we've encountered our first major challenge. Unlike many women who I've known who've graciously accepted the idea of converting to Judaism for their Jewish husbands, she doesn't seem to take to kindly to the idea. For some reason, she somewhat hostilly opposing the idea (although she contemplated it in the past with me previoiusly) Basically, her argument is why should SHE be the one expected to convert instead of me. I have a difficult time articulating the correct explanation, although it has more to do with traditional & family values than anything else. One interesting argument she posed is that her mother feels its a bad idea b/c she believes that Jews are targets for terrorists and are generally hated around the world. Her mother was raised Catholic in Panama, but has lived mostly in Virginia. My girlfriend seems to think she will be alienated by her family and friends for converting, but I think their fears are unfounded and they are trying to use fear as a means to stop her from considering it, rather than religious values.

I love this girl but I don't want my kids to grow up in a multi-religous home. Plus, I want her to be comfortable attending religous events with my family just as I have offered to do with hers. I told her I simply want to have a Jewish home and have kids that grow up Jewish. I told her I would gladly participate with her family in the Christmas holidays and the like, but not in my (our) home.
Has anyone had this dilema and how have they sucessfully dealt with it?




Gee..is that all you want? Ok, honey...I don't believe in Christmas, but I'll joyfully go along with all the shenanigans at your family if you really want to, but when we get home, Christ will no longer be our savior, and Christmas will cease to exist in our lives.

Happy Chanuka, honey. Now spin your dreidl like a good girl.

WTF?




Link Posted: 12/28/2005 4:53:28 PM EDT
Yes ETH...Jesus founded churches in the Isles, his family intermarried with the ArchDruid, If you wish more light, I can help you


Holy Mackerel, now I have really heard it all


Amazing

Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:27:48 AM EDT
You need to listen to Dr Laura! If you want to marry a Jewish Girl you'd better date jewish girls. Not that two different religions can't marry. But one of 3 things will probably happen. She will give up her religion and become Jewish. You will become Catholic. Your children will grow up neither. And what she say's now will change when kids show up. For both of you, find someone else, or you'll be on a good start to a wonderful divorce.

Just some advice from an older married guy.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:47:05 AM EDT
Why dont you find someone who believes as you do?

If you


don't consider myself to be very religous at all


find a non-believer like yourself
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 6:57:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:08:34 AM EDT
I try not to talk about religion, especially in my personal life, but.... I'm a Protestant (Baptist by birth, United Methodist by choice) who married a lovely Yom Kippur/Rosh Hashanah/Passover Jew. Both sets of parents were "concerned" about our future and our children's future. My wife and I had many long, late night talks about religion. Long story short, my faith was stronger, and my beautiful wife has come to see the light, so to speak. Our children are Christian with strong ties to the Jewish holidays. We celibrate Christmas, but we also do Hannukah with my inlaws. My kids understand that what they believe isn't necessarily the only "right" set of beliefs, but they are comfortable with what they believe. In the end, it's all come down to being comfortable with who and what you are. Marriage like life is all about compromise. Some things we just aren't willing to compromise. Religion for example......
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 7:41:43 AM EDT
You could become Messianic Jews. They follow Jewish traditions but believe Jesus is the Messiah.
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 12:41:15 PM EDT
A woman is more important to you than eternal salvation?
Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:46:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gks452:
You could become Messianic Jews. They follow Jewish traditions but believe Jesus is the Messiah.



___

This option would be most useless to both parents, particularly the Jewish parent. Messianic Judaism is an outreach program heavilly funded by evangelists as a means toward the method of attracting uneducated Jews into a christian dogma.

The problem this potential couple are facing will not be addressed by this option.

As man and woman, they need to seriously discuss their commitment to each other, and how their children will be raised.

Many Jewish Conservative and Reform Congregations have intra-faith groups that help deal with this.

That said, nobody should convert for anything other than love, and the willingness to be an active participant in a spiritual relationship agreed upon by both.

I haven't seen that agreement stated here; perhaps both need to reconsider marriage.


Ed



Link Posted: 12/29/2005 2:58:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By gks452:
You could become Messianic Jews. They follow Jewish traditions but believe Jesus is the Messiah.



___

This option would be most useless to both parents, particularly the Jewish parent. Messianic Judaism is an outreach program heavilly funded by evangelists as a means toward the method of attracting uneducated Jews into a christian dogma.

The problem this potential couple are facing will not be addressed by this option.

As man and woman, they need to seriously discuss their commitment to each other, and how their children will be raised.

Many Jewish Conservative and Reform Congregations have intra-faith groups that help deal with this.

That said, nobody should convert for anything other than love, and the willingness to be an active participant in a spiritual relationship agreed upon by both.

I haven't seen that agreement stated here; perhaps both need to reconsider marriage.


Ed






I would slightly disagree. Nobody should convert for anything but sincere personal belief. If you don't believe it, then love isn't going to bind you to it.
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:15:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TomJefferson:
Tag

Who knows maybe someone will come up with a way to have Jewish Catholic children.



I thought the method was the same, regardless of the mixers?

Or was that Martinis?


Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:16:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DarkHalf:
A woman is more important to you than eternal salvation?





Pay attention...HE is the one who is JEWISH...NOT her!
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 8:25:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:

I would slightly disagree. Nobody should convert for anything but sincere personal belief. If you don't believe it, then love isn't going to bind you to it.



You got that right! +1
Link Posted: 12/30/2005 9:13:50 AM EDT
It sounds as if both of you are missing the entire point of one's faith. It is the foundation of one's view on not only your conduct in this world, but how you will spend eternity. Conversion from Christianity to Judaism or Judaism to Christianity isn't like changing political parties and raising your children Republican or Democrat. This is a question of eternity and how you will spend it.

I urge you both to consider your faiths and then consider the consequences of your decisions. I am a Christian who believes strongly in God's Plan of Salvation" through the virgin birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ as payment for the sins of all who will believe. This is at the core of my being and not something to be negotiated away for the convenience of entering into a transient earthly relationship of the flesh. I can totally understand your girl friend's reaction and her opposition to conversion. Even though she is not a religious person, it appears she is aware of the consequences and of the possibility for eternal damnation from a rejection of Jesus as her personal saviour.

I am by no means attempting to judge you or your girl friend. I just want you to seriously reflect on this decision as it may be eternal.

Link Posted: 12/30/2005 11:05:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1cheapshot:
You need to listen to Dr Laura! If you want to marry a Jewish Girl you'd better date jewish girls. Not that two different religions can't marry. But one of 3 things will probably happen. She will give up her religion and become Jewish. You will become Catholic. Your children will grow up neither. And what she say's now will change when kids show up. For both of you, find someone else, or you'll be on a good start to a wonderful divorce.

Just some advice from an older married guy.



Pay attention to this.

Remember that kid captured in Afghanistan they called the "American Taliban", John something?

IIRC, his father was a Buddhist and his mother was a non-practicing Jew, or some such combination. There's no way that recipe could have given him a strong foundation, and it's no wonder he went searching for something else.

IMHO, two committed Jewish parents would be better than two parents who practice separate religions separately. One of the biggest responsibilities is to "bring up a child in the way he should go."
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:43:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 8:25:09 AM EDT by TheWind]
That kid is no the way he is becasue of mixed religious beliefs...he is that way becauseof two fruitcake liberal californican parents, who have no clue who they are, let alone raise a kid.

as for.

Holy Mackerel, now I have really heard it all


Remember that the church and those politically linked to it wrote the majority of the history...not as the truth, but as a support of their positions.
How is the War of Northern Aggression covered in history book?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:47:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheWind:

How is the War of Northern Aggression covered in history book?



Talk about re-writing history.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:09:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2006 5:49:50 AM EDT by akethan]
Typical jew, everything is about me.

It was a joke sorry if I offended anyone.


Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:28:40 AM EDT

Long story short, my faith was stronger, and my beautiful wife has come to see the light, so to speak


If she becomes a Christian as a matter on conscience...not because your faith is stronger, then it wouuld be true...my faith is stronger than my wife, she was brought up Roman, I have never tried to convert her, it wiill be her choice or it doen't count!

My faith could be stronger than yours? wwill you convert?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:52:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
Typical jew, everything is about me.



Did you take time out from your goose stepping classes to read this thread?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:50:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 10:52:13 AM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By akethan:
Typical jew, everything is about me.



___

akethan, how do enjoy exposing yourself as an anti-Semite? That’s just my typical response to such as you.

Regarding the topic, I converted to Judaism from Catholicism from a love for my wife and a desire to “cast my lot” with the Jewish people. The Jewish services I attended at the USAF Academy during the late 1980’s while stationed in Colorado Springs with my Jewish girlfriend spoke to what my spiritual self was seeking. Further discussion of that is just my story.

Though, I did marry, and later converted; still I continue my study of Judaism. That, too, is just my story. Though, I feel free to admit that it did begin with my love of a Jewish woman and a growing and undiminished desire to share my love of Judaism with my wife. That, too, is simply my own story, though what I share through that story resonates to the love and devotion of Ruth to Naomi as is recognized as the first biblical narrative of a conversion to Judaism.

I wouldn’t recommend my life decision to the couple involved in the original thread, as my choice was intensely personal, and took many years (we dated for three, and I cast my lot with the Jewish people two years after marriage), of thought, dedication, and study to what I spiritually wanted my role to be in the creation of a Jewish life, and a Jewish family. Again, just my story.

So must theirs be; accept a mixed-marriage with the evident confliction that may or may not follow between man and woman, or risk even more when the question of how to raise the children is the focus.

I wish for the best outcome for the couple discussed in the original thread.

Much must be discussed; nothing should be coerced or assumed before marriage.



Ed
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:01:49 PM EDT
OMG this is the funniest thread ever! I just love the Jew jokes ....oh man, and the Christians are a riot

oh man, thousands of years of this and you guys still bicker. This is truely a classic!

Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:06:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:10:47 PM EDT
I think its selfish of you for not allowing her to celebrate christmas, not saying you are a bad person, and only expressing my opionion of course. but why should she convert and why not leave her religeon the way it is? you already admitted that religion is not that big of a deal, if thats the case why not just marry her for the way she is?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:39:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:54:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 4:57:45 PM EDT by lu380]

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Don't be a slave to your religion. If you love her and she loves you, marry her. I'm SURE that God will not object.


CJ



^^ Listen to this man. Don't worry about it. You can raise your kid as a Jew even though your wife is not.

My father is not a Jew, and his wife is. She's a mega-Jew, and even has a pointy beard with funny sideburns. My brother (from another mother) is being raised as a Jew. There doesn't seem to be a problem.


BTW: My mother is Jewish too. I don't hate Jews, so don't take my post seriously.
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