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Posted: 12/21/2005 7:49:18 AM EDT

Can you disappoint God?
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 7:52:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 7:56:16 AM EDT by arowneragain]
No.

edit:


Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.


God may be displeased (I am quite certain of it, in my own case) but He is never dissapointed, as He knew far in advance how things would play out.



For instance, if the weatherman shows up at the golf course only to find it raining, he can't be truly disappointed; he KNEW it was going to rain (in theory, anyway...). He can, however, be unhappy.

To refien the answer further, I should ask if I've accidentally hit an issue of semantics here, and if by 'disappointed' you meant 'displeased' - if so, the answer would be the exact opposite.


Link Posted: 12/21/2005 8:43:54 AM EDT
I tend to think our relationship with God is a lot like our children's relationship with us except on a higher level. I think we can often preceive how our children will act or react and forsee the outcome long before hand. Just as our children can disappoint us, I think we can disappoint God. I agree with arowneragain that since God is all knowning our reactions couldn't really surprise him however I am sure he is confident in his design of us and knows that we can do better with what he has provided us. Our choosing other must be a big disappointment.

Patty
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:09:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:29:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 11:31:27 AM EDT by scuba_ed]

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.





__

Re:

"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 11:38:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.





__

Re:

"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).





Are you trying to say that foreknowledge (by God) and free will (by man) are mutually exclusive concepts?

I disagree.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:11:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.





__

Re:

"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).





Are you trying to say that foreknowledge (by God) and free will (by man) are mutually exclusive concepts?

I disagree.




__

I would assert that free will was a gift from G-d. That has been the mainstay of Judaism to this day. To the extent that Christian interpretation believes G-d would destroy this gift by virtue of preordination would, by any definition of a loving G-d, be pernicious.

To the extent you believe such a G-d exists, then you must also understand that this is not a world, which has been redeemed. A redeemer has visited? Really? Do you read, and watch television broadcasts of the troubles in this world? Was this not the mission of the Christian messiah to correct (not instruct, as is a poor clue, but to correct? And, too, you’re telling me G-d was omnipresent and knowing of this failed mission?

Judaism has always believed in a joint-promise with the G-d of Israel, to help complete the work of creation…to help foster a world that one-day would fulfill the dream of a world at peace.

Judaism doesn’t believe that we all are predestined for a pre-determined outcome. Jews believe all of us, regardless of how we approach G-d, have an obligation to actively pursue justice in this world…not simply to sit on our collective hindquarters as “sheeple” and let events turn around us though we had no intellect or inclination to correct what is wrong with the world.

G-d gave us minds, and reasoning ability for something…if you don’t understand from the above, then you’ve let G-d down…and, more important, your fellows.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:17:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.





__

Re:

"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).





Are you trying to say that foreknowledge (by God) and free will (by man) are mutually exclusive concepts?

I disagree.




__

I would assert that free will was a gift from G-d. That has been the mainstay of Judaism to this day. To the extent that Christian interpretation believes G-d would destroy this gift by virtue of preordination would, by any definition of a loving G-d, be pernicious.

To the extent you believe such a G-d exists, then you must also understand that this is not a world, which has been redeemed. A redeemer has visited? Really? Do you read, and watch television broadcasts of the troubles in this world? Was this not the mission of the Christian messiah to correct (not instruct, as is a poor clue, but to correct? And, too, you’re telling me G-d was omnipresent and knowing of this failed mission?

Judaism has always believed in a joint-promise with the G-d of Israel, to help complete the work of creation…to help foster a world that one-day would fulfill the dream of a world at peace.

Judaism doesn’t believe that we all are predestined for a pre-determined outcome. Jews believe all of us, regardless of how we approach G-d, have an obligation to actively pursue justice in this world…not simply to sit on our collective hindquarters as “sheeple” and let events turn around us though we had no intellect or inclination to correct what is wrong with the world.

G-d gave us minds, and reasoning ability for something…if you don’t understand from the above, then you’ve let G-d down…and, more important, your fellows.





I simply stated that I disagreed.

You type out several paragrpahs about how Jesus was false, and I'm a disappointment to God for believing in Him.

I'm really sorry that you feel that way.


Link Posted: 12/21/2005 12:27:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2005 12:28:11 PM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:
How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).



No offense, but with all due respect I find your logic "off-course" on this issue. God knows, we don't... how would His foreknowledge affect, in any way, our efforts to "live better?"


As to the original question, I must agree with my brethren above: displease, yes; dissappoint, no.
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 1:53:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Disappointment would imply that you somehow (negatively) surprised Him.




That's the way I see it.

Disappointment is when you expect a person to do one thing, and they do something else.

Since He is omniscient and knows tomorrow, nothing I do is unexpected to Him.

Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those.





__

Re:

"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).





Are you trying to say that foreknowledge (by God) and free will (by man) are mutually exclusive concepts?

I disagree.




__

I would assert that free will was a gift from G-d. That has been the mainstay of Judaism to this day. To the extent that Christian interpretation believes G-d would destroy this gift by virtue of preordination would, by any definition of a loving G-d, be pernicious.

To the extent you believe such a G-d exists, then you must also understand that this is not a world, which has been redeemed. A redeemer has visited? Really? Do you read, and watch television broadcasts of the troubles in this world? Was this not the mission of the Christian messiah to correct (not instruct, as is a poor clue, but to correct? And, too, you’re telling me G-d was omnipresent and knowing of this failed mission?

Judaism has always believed in a joint-promise with the G-d of Israel, to help complete the work of creation…to help foster a world that one-day would fulfill the dream of a world at peace.

Judaism doesn’t believe that we all are predestined for a pre-determined outcome. Jews believe all of us, regardless of how we approach G-d, have an obligation to actively pursue justice in this world…not simply to sit on our collective hindquarters as “sheeple” and let events turn around us though we had no intellect or inclination to correct what is wrong with the world.

G-d gave us minds, and reasoning ability for something…if you don’t understand from the above, then you’ve let G-d down…and, more important, your fellows.





I simply stated that I disagreed.

You type out several paragrpahs about how Jesus was false, and I'm a disappointment to God for believing in Him.

I'm really sorry that you feel that way.





___

For having scathed me previously simply for stating a Jewish opinion, I believe you will survive...remember your tag line...not your "B.S. line" in the future.

Link Posted: 12/21/2005 6:35:13 PM EDT
Nope...
Link Posted: 12/21/2005 9:37:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:

Originally Posted By Brohawk:

Originally Posted By arowneragain:


















The backspace key is my friend!

I don't think we can negatively surprise the Almighty, and we can surely displease Him. However, if we take disappoint to mean "to let someone down," then yes, I think that we can disappoint God. He gave us free will, and we freely choose the wrong. The fact that He is outside of time doesn't change the fact that He has "good works" for us to do, and that we grieve Him when we shirk them.
Link Posted: 12/22/2005 7:23:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scuba_ed:


"Granted, there are things that don't please Him, and I try to minimize/avoid those."

How? As you've already indicated that tomorrow is known, how do avoid the predestination problem? Logic indicates you would have no option to "minimize/avoid those". Your premise is uncertain, your logic is definitely off-course. It's probably a mental problem...uhh, yeah...the inability to predict what is ordained and to reconcile that with your apparent knowledge of "...there are things that don't please Him.".

Though it's not really "...don't ...", is it? It's won't! What a horrible circular arguement to have in your mind!!

Your logic is screwed...maybe you are to?

Better, perhaps, to worry more about disapointment with yourself (can be fixed!), and disapointment with those you love (can be fixed!).




I once was screwed, but now I'm saved.

What is illogical about living life so that when I am faced with a decision, I try to choose the path that will please my Heavenly Father?

I acknowledge that I am imperfect in this, but my imperfection doesn't make me throw up my hands in despair and quit.

Do you make decisions based on what will be pleasing to Him, or do take a fatalistic approach of "Whatever happens is His will anyway", and rationalize away personal responsibility?

I would hope that He would be the main consideration in your decision making process.
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