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Posted: 10/5/2005 8:33:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 1:37:57 PM EDT by FLAL1A]
A dear friend of mine, about 60 years old, was just diagnosed with lung cancer (he quit smoking 18 years ago) and will have surgery tomorrow. He was in my office to review his Living Will. I explained Pascal's wager to him, told him what I believe, and urged him to accept Christ. He politely declined. He's just too egotistical and was too much abused by the church (he's gay) and far too proud, at least for now. I told him the only thing I dread about Heaven is eternity without his company. He laughed it off, saying he's sure I'll be able to file motions on his behalf. Would that it were so.

UPDATE. He went in for surgery today (Thursday 100605). They opened him up, and found that the cancer has metastasized. Nearby lymph nodes are involved and necrotic. It's very aggressive cancer - he had a clear X-Ray 6 months ago, and the primary lesion is +5 cm now. His primary doctor (and lifelong friend) recommends that he cash out his retirement, et c., get his affairs in order, and live like there was no tomorrow - because there is no tomorrow. The doctor says maybe one month, maybe 6, maybe a year, but not long.

I guess I'll give him a day or two and see if I can get him to read Mere Christianity.

2d UPDATE: (101905) We moved my friend into a vacant bedroom at my place about 10 days ago. I took him to see the oncologist last Friday. Dr. wanted an additional MRI of the pelvis & femurs because of suspicious shadows on prior films. I took him for the MRI yesterday. My friend called me at the office this AM to tell me that the Dr. says there has been extensive metastasis, and his pelvis and femurs are heavily involved. We'll go back to the oncologist this Friday.

Anybody have any ideas how to get a ~300 lb man up & down stairs, in case his legs give out before his mind does?

3d UPDATE: (103005) Last Tuesday 102505, my sister called out of the blue to remind me that the old home place (where she lives, about a mile from my place) has a ramp to the front door and a guest room on the ground floor. The next day (Wednesday 102606) - out of the blue - my friend called and said that his doctor said in no uncertain terms NO MORE STAIRS, PERIOD. The cancer is in his bones, especially his legs, and the Dr says they could snap like matchsticks at any time.

The Lord moves in mysterious ways, does he not?

Thursday (102705) my wife (God bless her) spent the day getting the guest room at the home place ready for occupancy. Somebody took my friend to a hockey game and while he was gone (with his knowledge, of course) another friend and I moved all his stuff from my house to the home place, where he was dropped off after the game. There has been a little adjustment, but he is settling in nicely. My sister and my friend were once pretty close (just fell out of touch) and are renewing that relationship. Oddly, I miss my friend terribly. I feel like I did when my elder son went away to college, even though I see him every day and talk to him on the phone every few hours. It was such a plain and simple joy to have in my home someone of whom I am so fond; to see him over coffee in the morning, to hear him holler at me when I got home, to sit quietly on the porch with him in the evening. It is strange to me how quickly I became attached enough to those circumstances to be saddened when they changed.

On another note, there is nothing saccharine or weepy about it, but my interaction with Floyd has become (despite his recent move) so open and unabashedly loving, so filled with frank and unvarnished joy in one another's company, so easy and intimate that it as if I can hear angels sing whenever we talk. It is like every squeak, rattle, crumb, and bug has disappeared from our friendship and we just bask in one another's company. It's as if every one of those petty annoyances we all feel that others (including our friends and spouses) inflict on us is gone. It is quite glorious.

I slipped a copy of Surprised by Joy into a short stack of books I got for him. He met with the Hospice rep today, and oddly enough he mentioned to me that she told him "that they have clergy of every sort available on a moment's notice. So. [silence]" Perhaps the Spirit is moving!

4th Update (111405) Not much new. He's settled in at my sister's. Spent Friday wearing my sedentary, lazy *ss out replacing the end of the ramp from the porch to the driveway so that he can motor himself out to the sidewalk in his new electric wheelchair, if he has a mind to, and replacing the window (Not the glass. The. WIN. DOW. ) in the bathroom so hedoesn't freeze while he's in there (it's down in the 40's in the AM some days now). OTOH, I afterward had as good a time as a man can have with his pants on. I made a fire in the fireplace and he and I and another close friend spent the evening talking and just sitting together watching the fire and reading aloud funny things we remembered from old books (of which there is a large collection at the old home place). Moments like that are golden. He had a big night at a hockey game last week - got to sit on the bench with the players (sort of a "Fan of the Week" thing) and some folks threw him a party at a local coffess house (here's the kind of guy he is: somebody gave him a 2 year Day Timer, and he almost choked to death laughing. You have to appreciate a guy like that.)

No appreciable progress on the spiritual front. I met with my priest last week, & he concurred that the thing to do is to pray that the Spirit will do its work on him, and to surround him with love. I'd like to see that matter resolved once and for all, and correctly. He made snide (though not blasphemous) comments when I said that I could have someone bring him Communion from church.

I'm starting to get a little worn, not so much from the work as from the fear that he is suffering or needing something and not telling me. I know that sounds self-aggrandizing, but it's the honest truth. If I were confident that he'd call me the instant he needed anything at all, from medication to a clean pillow case to a fresh toothpick, I'd be much more at ease. I'd hate to go by and find him silently grumbling over something out of a perverse desire to avoid "bothering" me.


5th UPDATE 012906: Abou 5-6 weeks ago, Floyd has a 3-day bout of intestinal upset and agony. We were hauling, dumping, and wiping indescribably vile effluvia. The 4th day was chemo day. Another friend took Floyd for a treatment. His blood counts were so out of whack the doctor admitted him to the hospital. He stayed over a month. He had an atrocious intestinal blockage. It looked, literally, as if he had a TV or a microwave under his gown. They got that taken care of, and he & the oncologist agreed to give up on the chemo (which had been merely palliative anyway). He went from the hospital to Hospice, where he stayed about a month. He had to leave because (I kid you not) it's a short-term facility & he's not dying fast enough.

About 2 weeks ago they started telling us that he would need to leave "soon." That's as precise as the notive ever got. He couldn't go to a nursing home without eating his entire estate, because his insurance is one he picked when nursing home care never crossed his mind. We told him to bring him back to my sister's house, which they did. On 4 hours' notice.

Thank God a buddy and I had cleaned and prepared his room on a whim Friday.

Floyd was pretty whipped by the stress of the move. He has semiskilled care from 8AM to 6PM (for which he pays out of pocket). His friends are pulling back together for night time sitting. I had last night, a buddy has tonight, and we're working on recruitment for the future. The sitter has agreed to try to ensure that bowel activity occurs while she's there, which will make it easier to recruit nighttime help. He is either on the express train, or is overmedicated. He's going in & out of lucidity, and is pretty grumpy. He still knows who everybody is, though.

No advances on the spiritual front that I can tell. An RC layman from the parish of another friend of Floyd's came by the hospital and visited a bit (doesn't know Floyd from Adam's housecat). He asked if he could pray with Floyd. Floyd said no and politely asked him to leave, which he did. Then the guy called him at 8 AM the following Sunday (I don't call my relatives at 8 o'clock Sunday morning), asking if he could come back. Floyd said "no, thanks." The guy showed up an hour later anyway, asking if he could pray and asperge Floyd with holy water. Floyd said "no," in what I assume were less than cordial terms. I admire the guy's perseverance, but if I felt compelled to follow up, I'd have just showed up (at a decent hour), spritzed him, prayed fast, and left. Oh, well. Keep him in your prayers.

FINAL UPDATE 020306: I spent most of Tuesday night praying over Floyd as he slept. He took a turn for the worse last night and isn't expected to last the weekend. This afternoon (Friday), Floyd (in my absence) cried out "Oh, Jesus!" The sitter who is with him during the day said "Jesus sent me to take care of you. Do you want Jesus? Do you give your soul to the Lord?" Floyd said "I want my Jesus!" Several friends came over later and report him shouting "Praise Jesus!" A lifelong friend asked him about 10 minutes ago if he wanted a priest. He said, loudly (and in my presence) "Yes!" The priest is en route to the house.

ETA: The priest came and annointed him. FLOYD RECEIVED COMMUNION, CROSSED HIMSELF, AND SAID "IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER AND OF THE SON AND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AMEN."

GLORY, GLORY, GLORY!

Thank you for your prayers. A fine mind and a leonine heart have been won for the Kingdom.

Glory be to God.

Glory be to God.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:46:10 AM EDT
Sorry to hear that.

Not everyone Paul witnessed to was saved.

All we can do is present the opportunity. Each individual is responsible for what they do with it.

Let's keep him in prayer. As long as he's living it's not too late.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:54:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Brohawk:
Sorry to hear that.

Not everyone Paul witnessed to was saved.

All we can do is present the opportunity. Each individual is responsible for what they do with it.

Let's keep him in prayer. As long as he's living it's not too late.



Amen, and thanks. His name is Floyd.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:59:55 PM EDT
We can never take away someones free-agency. Hopefully he will come around.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 12:19:53 AM EDT
Remind him that it was the church that abused him.....not God [very often not the same thing] and no one is to cool to need help and he could use all the help he can get. And tell him that's from one old queen to another.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 11:28:33 AM EDT
Bump for update.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 12:23:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ModernDayIsraelite:
We can never take away someones free-agency. Hopefully he will come around.



Very true. You can always extend the invitation, but the individual still has to make the choice.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 12:37:33 PM EDT
Prayers sent


Sean
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 11:54:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/1/2005 3:16:44 PM EDT by Kacer]


Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Remind him that it was the church that abused him.....not God [very often not the same thing] and no one is to cool to need help and he could use all the help he can get. And tell him that's from one old queen to another.



FWIW, and I don't THINK we (FLAL1A and I) agree on this, but Pretty much what Stoner said. Being thick-headed, I didn't "get" that it was God's FOLLOWERS, not (where I think we don't agree) God who "disapproved" of my life. a great weight lifted off of me that day, and I re-committed myself and my life to God. If he was in the church "volunarially" (his idea, not parents or whomever) like me, he might be open to that revelation. <shrug>

ETA: Apparently, FLAL1A and I agree on more than I previously thought. (IM)
Link Posted: 10/21/2005 7:04:30 PM EDT
Sorry about your friend. Is there a room that he can use on the main level? My Mom was a pretty big girl and on a few occasions when she fell, we were forced to call the fire department to assist getting her either back in her chair or bed.
Link Posted: 10/21/2005 7:20:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
Anybody have any ideas how to get a ~300 lb man up & down stairs, in case his legs give out before his mind does?



Wheelchair like a dolly and two strong guys. Pull him up backwards. We do it for my sister inlaw who has a 200 LB electric wheel chair. It sucks, but it works.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:24:09 AM EDT
I will pray for this man, too. I also HIGHLY recommend C.S. Lewis' biography "Suprised by Joy"....as a gay man there are subjects that Lewis' touches on in that book that your friend may find very humorous and insightful.

For that matter....have him read "the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe" if you can get him hooked on the Chronicles of Narnia there are some BEAUTIFUL, BEAUTIFUL lessons about God's love in those books....yet God is never actually mentioned by name and the Bible is mentioned only ONCE and in passing!
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:35:02 AM EDT
May the Lord shine the light of love to drive away the darkness.
Link Posted: 10/23/2005 8:35:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2005 8:36:47 AM EDT by wildearp]

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
A dear friend of mine, about 60 years old, was just diagnosed with lung cancer (he quit smoking 18 years ago) and will have surgery tomorrow. He was in my office to review his Living Will. I explained Pascal's wager to him, told him what I believe, and urged him to accept Christ. He politely declined. He's just too egotistical and was too much abused by the church (he's gay) and far too proud, at least for now. I told him the only thing I dread about Heaven is eternity without his company. He laughed it off, saying he's sure I'll be able to file motions on his behalf. Would that it were so.

UPDATE. He went in for surgery today (Thursday 100605). They opened him up, and found that the cancer has metastasized. Nearby lymph nodes are involved and necrotic. It's very aggressive cancer - he had a clear X-Ray 6 months ago, and the primary lesion is +5 cm now. His primary doctor (and lifelong friend) recommends that he cash out his retirement, et c., get his affairs in order, and live like there was no tomorrow - because there is no tomorrow. The doctor says maybe one month, maybe 6, maybe a year, but not long.

I guess I'll give him a day or two and see if I can get him to read Mere Christianity.

2d UPDATE: (101905) We moved my friend into a vacant bedroom at my place about 10 days ago. I took him to see the oncologist last Friday. Dr. wanted an additional MRI of the pelvis & femurs because of suspicious shadows on prior films. I took him for the MRI yesterday. My friend called me at the office this AM to tell me that the Dr. says there has been extensive metastasis, and his pelvis and femurs are heavily involved. We'll go back to the oncologist this Friday.

Anybody have any ideas how to get a ~300 lb man up & down stairs, in case his legs give out before his mind does?



I have been through this, and have a family member that was diagnosed with an agressive cancer, just this weekend.

Recently I had to carry my 300 lb friend to his bed, no stairs (also cancer). You won't be able to do it, and probably 4 people can't do it. However, paramedics will do it for you. I doubt that they will charge for it. Are you working with a Hospice? They may have some solutions for you, and will bring you a electric hospital bed for the ground floor. If you aren't, please look into this. If your friend had med insurance, it will be covered. They can assign a nurse too, and can provide counseling, which I highly recommend.

I just flew the wife out this AM. Her Dad lost about 35 lbs, and showed some delirium. It has metastisized into his brain and stomach from his lungs, and this is after docs said he was fine a week ago.

Be strong, this is a part of life, and losing a good friend is very hard.
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 8:39:19 PM EDT
Bump for 3d Update (in original post)
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 9:44:06 PM EDT
why do you feel the need to recruit him for god?
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 9:58:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
why do you feel the need to recruit him for god?



That's rather an odd question, but I'll answer it. My motivation is not primarily to recruit him for God, but to ensure that I am able to spend some portion of eternity enjoying his company, because I find him delightful. Secondarily and less selfishly, I would like to spare him eternity writhing in Hell, because I love him.

Tertiarily, I would like to recruit him for God because he is a prize. He is a genius who is fluent in about a half-dozen languages. He is so smart that in more than ten years of close friendship, he has fully understood without explanation everything I have discussed with him from relationships to etymology to Latin grammar to Linguistics to Philosophy except ballistics, internal combustion engines, and the allure of the female pudendum. He is a gifted pianist and a keen observer of humanity. Only a fool would fail to want him as a member of his clan, team, club, or heavenly kingdom.
Link Posted: 10/29/2005 10:31:04 PM EDT
serioudly, I still don't get it?
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 6:51:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
serioudly, I still don't get it?



BECAUSE GOD TOLD US TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

was that clear enough?
Link Posted: 10/30/2005 8:56:23 AM EDT
why can't he have his own beliefs? Why does he have to have yours? Your god will send him to hell even if he's a fair and just man, that helps others, just because he doesn't share the same belief you do and your god has provided no more support for him then another religion?
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 10:29:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
why can't he have his own beliefs? Why does he have to have yours? Your god will send him to hell even if he's a fair and just man, that helps others, just because he doesn't share the same belief you do and your god has provided no more support for him then another religion?



Why are you so adamant that he not share FLA1A's beliefs? If the man explains them to his friend, and his friend accepts them as his own, then there is no more to it than that.

He has not tried, from what I have read, to force anything on this man. He has merely offered him something that he perceives as a sacred gift of kindness, borne from a deep, sincere care for the man's immortal soul.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 10:44:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
why do you feel the need to recruit him for god?



why not? why does it offend you so? becuase he inst a pagen is that why?
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 11:27:52 PM EDT
no. It's just that christians are the only ones that seem to want to recuit people, while all pagans only inform if they're asked and seek knowledge on our own. I just do not understand why you want people to be a certain religion.

I belive there are many paths and we will all share the same fate
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 11:39:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
no. It's just that christians are the only ones that seem to want to recuit people, while all pagans only inform if they're asked and seek knowledge on our own. I just do not understand why you want people to be a certain religion.

I belive there are many paths and we will all share the same fate



The last sentence of your post contains the answer. If you think all roads lead to Atlanta, there's no reason to offer directions, no matter how lost a fellow motorist seems to be. If, on the other hand, you think that some roads go to Atlanta and others to Macon, it behooves you to offer a map to anybody you'd like to meet in Atlanta.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 11:42:21 PM EDT
Well I belive it is a spiritual path that you take. There is the left or right hand path you can choose. good evil, light dark, whatever you want to call it. Most can be right and it's the individual's choice what path is the best for them. What will teach them the most and gain them the most knowledge.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 3:19:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
no. It's just that christians are the only ones that seem to want to recuit people, while all pagans only inform if they're asked and seek knowledge on our own. I just do not understand why you want people to be a certain religion.

I belive there are many paths and we will all share the same fate



christians are not the only religion that "recruits" people. why does it bother you that they do anyway? it shouldnt even affect you.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 5:04:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:
no. It's just that christians are the only ones that seem to want to recuit people, ....




Oh really?!? Taliban John ring a bell?

I like shooting and hunting and I encourage my family and friends to give it a try. Is that bad? No.

In my experience salvation is a wonderful thing. Why would I want to deny my friends and family of such a good thing?

Shok
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 5:12:35 AM EDT
You have planted the "mustard seed." It is growing inside of him. Outwardly he may be rejecting your words, but inside I bet he, like all other things you have discussed, is taking it in and giving it deep and serious consideration. You may never see the fully grown tree until you get to heaven, just know that it is growing inside him. Even the smallest seed can split the hardest of stone and flourish.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 10:28:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By Luxan:
no. It's just that christians are the only ones that seem to want to recuit people, while all pagans only inform if they're asked and seek knowledge on our own. I just do not understand why you want people to be a certain religion.

I belive there are many paths and we will all share the same fate



christians are not the only religion that "recruits" people. why does it bother you that they do anyway? it shouldnt even affect you.



It does effect me because I have christians that stand next to stores and if they see a pentacle they start preaching to me. I have been told I am a sinner, going to hell, need to change, and I've been called evil and a devil worshiper. All just because I wanted to get something at a store.

I am more wondering why it is done by the christians, because I do not know that religion as well.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 11:41:04 AM EDT
FLAL1A, you are doing what you can for your friend out of love and compassion. Continue to pray for him and do whatever you can to help him. You are showing him love and compassion and that will mean more for him spiritually than any words at this point. He has heard your words. The seed has been planted. Just continue to be there for him as a friend. I pray that God blesses you and your friend.
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 12:44:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:

It does effect me because I have christians that stand next to stores and if they see a pentacle they start preaching to me. I have been told I am a sinner, going to hell, need to change, and I've been called evil and a devil worshiper. All just because I wanted to get something at a store.

I am more wondering why it is done by the christians,



Sometimes I wonder the same thing. Evangelism doesn't work that way. Jesus was quite frank but he never like that.

    Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.
    Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
    Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.




because I do not know that religion as well.


As well as what other religion?

Thanks,

Shok
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 1:03:07 PM EDT
I know several pagan religions. Roma, Wicca, asatru, druidism, and of cource witchcraft. I know many christians and am friends with them but much of they're beliefs and the way people act confuse me.

such as in Pagan religions everyone does they're own research. You are only interested if you are learning, and you enjoy learning about it. In the christian religions most people never even read they're booke (bible thing) and go to huge churches and sit, text message, and impatiently wait while checking they're watches while someone just spoon feeds them information which they just agree with. And even worse many of them disagree with parts of they're religion making them NOT that branch of christianity but they still go and call themselves this.

Do they do this to fit in? Or are most christians always want the easy way out?

If this is easy, and if they don't want to go, why do they go to these churches and sit and waste 1 hour of they're life all the time?
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 2:24:41 PM EDT
Why not just be his freind and make his last days fun?
Link Posted: 11/1/2005 4:53:37 PM EDT
FLAL1A,

FWIW, I read the various updates, and comments of others... tears of joy flow down my cheeks. I'm so happy for your experiences, if still saddened by the events that prompted them.

I was DXed w/MS in 1998. By 2000, I could no longer work, about 6 months latr I was legally blind in my right eye. Was all of this VERY hard to deal with? Absolutely, it was. But I believe God wants us to find the positive in any situation, regardless how bad it may be. And I think there is. At least every terrible thing, has eventually become wonderful for me, even my MS. I have recovered from it extensively, a couple more years, and I SHOULD be back to 100% (if quite a bit older) my sight has returned (even though man (the doctors) said it COULDN'T. Most of my symptoms have resolved. I have learned much from having it (and fixing it) and share this info freely, as it was given to me - freely (okay, I DID pay a tad in anguish, time and pain, but still, basically, free. Others have suffered too, and suffer still) . I fully attribute the knowledge I gained as coming from God. I honestly don't think I'd have put it together if I had been even a year prior or a year after receiving the DX. (MAYBE I could have if a year prior, but it would have been, IMO, far more difficult.) Everything just came together so easilly... sure the ravaging my body was going through really was awful, but I'd not trade a minute of it. (And no, I am NOT a masochist, however I know it had to be so, as I needed some motivation to to FIND the answers).

So, part of me envies you, and part of me cries w/you, for we know how it is like to end. I hope your friend finds God, (if he hasn't already - sounds to me like he may well have), I hope his time is long, and as pain free as is possible, and that you are able to experience this process with as little pain as is possible, sharing to the fullest the time that he has left. God bless.
Link Posted: 11/2/2005 1:13:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dvr9:
You have planted the "mustard seed." It is growing inside of him. Outwardly he may be rejecting your words, but inside I bet he, like all other things you have discussed, is taking it in and giving it deep and serious consideration. You may never see the fully grown tree until you get to heaven, just know that it is growing inside him. Even the smallest seed can split the hardest of stone and flourish.



I would tend to agree. Even in our last moments, God's grace is still close at hand, and available to those who would accept it. You've planted the seed, and even though he may never let on to you that he's accepted salvation, God knows what is in his heart.
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 4:10:20 PM EDT
Bump for Update IV
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 7:48:21 PM EDT
Prayer sent for your friend and you.
Link Posted: 1/17/2006 8:39:55 PM EDT
It is the work of the Holy Spirit to draw men to salvation.

It is our obligation to share the "Good News" and plant the seeds. You have more than fulfilled your obligation to share and plant the seeds. Now, we pray that the seeds will bloom into fruit.

You are also fullfilling the blessed commandment to "love thy neighbor as thyself." The love of Christ flows through our actions to our fellow man.

Keep loving and showing Christ's love. Your friend may be too proud to let you know that salvation is pulling at his heart. He may not be ready to let go of his "issues" with the church. BUT, know that nothing on this earth can prevent the work of the Holy Spirit. There is MUCH hope!!

Mrs. Ekie
Link Posted: 1/18/2006 8:23:45 PM EDT


Prayers sent.

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 6:03:45 PM EDT
Bump. Update V.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:25:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:27:32 AM EDT by dolanp]
Good luck to your friend.

On a side note, Pascal's wager is not logically valid because it doesn't take into the account that even if you choose to believe in a religion, there are others who will say you won't get into heaven. This mutual exclusivity ruins the theory. Moreover, even if you accepted religion based on this theory, you would be doing so for the wrong reason.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:51:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Luxan:


Do they do this to fit in? Or are most christians always want the easy way out?

If this is easy, and if they don't want to go, why do they go to these churches and sit and waste 1 hour of they're life all the time?



Its human nature to want the easy way out, it not something christians have a payent on.

The ones who go and waste time? Probably becvause they are with a spouse and killing time. Perhaps their denomination is one of the MANY who are a works based denomination? But for the most part its human nature to go through the motions even if grudgingly. Many have no love for God, they only want Him to get inot Heaven, but for everything else, they shut Him out.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:26:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WildBoar:

Originally Posted By Luxan:


Do they do this to fit in? Or are most christians always want the easy way out?

If this is easy, and if they don't want to go, why do they go to these churches and sit and waste 1 hour of they're life all the time?



Its human nature to want the easy way out, it not something christians have a payent on.

The ones who go and waste time? Probably becvause they are with a spouse and killing time. Perhaps their denomination is one of the MANY who are a works based denomination? But for the most part its human nature to go through the motions even if grudgingly. Many have no love for God, they only want Him to get inot Heaven, but for everything else, they shut Him out.



I go because I both believe and feel that I am joining in the eternal feast of the Lamb, giving praise and worship at the foot of His throne. In going to church, I get a foretaste of heaven, and as clear a view of God's majesty and unimaginable beauty as my tiny mind can handle. I ain't killing time. I wish it lasted all day, and I eagerly await the day that I go to worship and find that it will never end, whatever I have to do to make it from here to that everlasting Sunday morning.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:53:11 PM EDT
Bump for final update.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:07:52 PM EDT
Wow! I'm very happy that your friend accepted Jesus. That truly is a glorious thing.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:42:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Shane333:
Wow! I'm very happy that your friend accepted Jesus. That truly is a glorious thing.



I am beside myself with joy.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:42:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
A fine mind and a leonine heart have been won for the Kingdom. Glory be to God.



Praise God!

That is truly wonderful.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:10:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 12:27:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/4/2006 12:28:28 AM EDT by EricTheHun]
Thank you, my Brother in Christ, for doing what any Christian worth the name would be honored to do.

And He spake this parable unto them, saying,

What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Luke 15:3-7

THANK YOU

I dreamed I went to heaven
And you were there with me
We walked upon the streets of gold
Beside the crystal sea
We heard the angels singing
Then someone called your name
You turned and saw this young man
And he was smiling as he came

And he said, Friend
You may not know me now
And then he said, But wait
You used to teach my Sunday School
When I was only eight
And every week you would say a prayer
Before the class would start
And one day when you said that prayer
I asked Jesus in my heart

CHORUS:
Thank you for giving to the Lord
I am a life that was changed
Thank you for giving to the Lord
I am so glad you gave

Then another man stood before you
And said Remember the time
A missionary came to your church
And his pictures made you cry?
You didn't have much money
But you gave it anyway
Jesus took the gift you gave
And that's why I am here today!

CHORUS [repeat]

One by one they came
Far as the eye could see
Each life somehow touched
By your generosity
Little things that you had done
Sacrifices made
Unnoticed on the earth
In heaven now proclaimed

And I know up in heaven
You're not supposed to cry
But I am almost sure
There were tears in your eyes
As Jesus took your hand
And you stood before the Lord
He said, My child look around you
Great is your reward!

CHORUS (repeat)

I am so glad you gave....

by Ray Boltz, 1988

We are all so glad that you gave.....

Eric The(VeryBlessed)Hun
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 5:50:17 AM EDT
PRAISE GOD!!
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 6:11:02 AM EDT
I have been reading the updates and I just felt compelled to reply.

I am not a church going person, I do believe in God and Jesus.

I was very moved by the update today.

I will be thinking of your friend.
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