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Link Posted: 3/13/2021 10:08:48 PM EDT
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I'll start with one: When Jesus prays in the garden of Gethsemane, the Gospels tell us His prayers; how could the author(s) of that passage know, being that the apostles were asleep?
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The bible is divine.
Link Posted: 3/13/2021 10:35:38 PM EDT
[#2]
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The bible is divine.
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The Bible contains the divinely inspired Word of God, but it is not divine.

I only mention this because ever since the introduction of Sola Scriptura, some place the Bible as equal to or above God. It is not. His deposit of Faith is larger, and He has the capacity to do with it as He pleases.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:16:30 AM EDT
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Are we just going to all ignore this pic??

Is this for real? How have I never heard anything about this before?
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Are we just going to all ignore this pic??

Is this for real? How have I never heard anything about this before?


Because you don't compete in photoshop contests?

blackbook, an American designer, created this Photoshop on 26th October, 2008 for DesignCrowd (Community Contests), a business in Australia. The Photoshop was designed for the project 'PS Bonus Contest: Archaeological Anomalies 12'. It was awarded 3 out of 5 stars.


https://www.designcrowd.com/design/8956652
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 5:42:35 PM EDT
[#4]
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The Bible contains the divinely inspired Word of God, but it is not divine.

I only mention this because ever since the introduction of Sola Scriptura, some place the Bible as equal to or above God. It is not. His deposit of Faith is larger, and He has the capacity to do with it as He pleases.
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The bible is divine.


The Bible contains the divinely inspired Word of God, but it is not divine.

I only mention this because ever since the introduction of Sola Scriptura, some place the Bible as equal to or above God. It is not. His deposit of Faith is larger, and He has the capacity to do with it as He pleases.


I don't know what that red herring is about.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 5:52:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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I don't know what that red herring is about.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
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It is not a red herring but a very important clarification of doctrine.

I also have no idea who your "people" are, but it is never good when any group is "destroyed" for their beliefs.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:01:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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Why did Jesus have so little patience for his disciples? He often seemed annoyed more than anything else in the Gospels.

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This is explained in the book of John.

Jesus loves the apostles but man, through sin and false doctrine grown blind and deaf to the word of god.  

He spoke in parables because they would have not understood him even if he spoke plainly.  So it was said by the prophet, and the scripture cannot be broken.

“This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified through it.”
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:09:17 PM EDT
[#7]
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Jesus loves the apostles but man, through sin and false doctrine grown blind and deaf to the word of god.  

He spoke in parables because they would have not understood him even if he spoke plainly.  So it was said by the prophet, and the scripture cannot be broken.
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I think I get what you are trying to say, but isn't it the opposite? He didn't speak in parables to confuse the Apostles. His actions were more for the people.

Matthew 13:10-17
"To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

‘You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it."

As such, he frustration was often over their lack of ability to understand at times rather than that being His goal.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:12:43 PM EDT
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Good question. I assume it may be a result of the revealing knowledge that came when they received the Holy Spirit"

The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”

Peter Addresses the Crowd
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
   I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
   your young men will see visions,
   your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
   I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
   and they will prophesy.


Again though, this is all speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable that if they could receive the ability to discern foreign languages to aid in the spread of the Gospel that they could receive knowledge of some unseen incidents to also aid in the spread of the Gospel.
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I'll start with one: When Jesus prays in the garden of Gethsemane, the Gospels tell us His prayers; how could the author(s) of that passage know, being that the apostles were asleep?


Good question. I assume it may be a result of the revealing knowledge that came when they received the Holy Spirit"

The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost
2 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken. 7 Utterly amazed, they asked: “Aren’t all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 Then how is it that each of us hears them in our native language? 9 Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome 11 (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!” 12 Amazed and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”

13 Some, however, made fun of them and said, “They have had too much wine.”

Peter Addresses the Crowd
14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
   I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
   your young men will see visions,
   your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
   I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
   and they will prophesy.


Again though, this is all speculation on my part, but it seems reasonable that if they could receive the ability to discern foreign languages to aid in the spread of the Gospel that they could receive knowledge of some unseen incidents to also aid in the spread of the Gospel.


12“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
13However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
[b]14He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.

15All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

Sorrow Will Turn to Joy

16“A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to the Father.”

17Then some of His disciples said among themselves, “What is this that He says to us, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’; and, ‘because I go to the Father’?”
18They said therefore, “What is this that He says, ‘A little while’? We do not [d]know what He is saying.”

19Now Jesus knew that they desired to ask Him, and He said to them, “Are you inquiring among yourselves about what I said, ‘A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me’?
20Most assuredly, I say to you that you will weep and lament, but the world will rejoice; and you will be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.
21A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world.
22Therefore you now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you.

23“And in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.
24Until now you have asked nothing in My name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

Jesus Christ Has Overcome the World

25“These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.
26In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you;
27for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God.
28I came forth from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I leave the world and go to the Father.”

29His disciples said to Him, “See, now You are speaking plainly, and using no figure of speech!
30Now we are sure that You know all things, and have no need that anyone should question You. By this we believe that You came forth from God.”

31Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe?
32Indeed the hour is coming, yes, has now come, that you will be scattered, each to his own, and will leave Me alone. And yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.
33These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:14:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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I agree with this answer.

Very little (per se) of what Christ actually said is in the Bible. Like Christ walked around completely silent his entire ministry, and only said and did what comparatively few things was actually written down.

What I believe is the answer is explained in these posts... The Bible contains only a fraction of Christs ministry.
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Alternately, Jesus could have filled them in before the Ascention.  You know they talked endlessly for those 40 days but so little of that seems to have been written down.


This is also a plausible answer. Sometimes people forget that the Bible contains only a minute part of the things that Jesus did, said, and revealed.


I agree with this answer.

Very little (per se) of what Christ actually said is in the Bible. Like Christ walked around completely silent his entire ministry, and only said and did what comparatively few things was actually written down.

What I believe is the answer is explained in these posts... The Bible contains only a fraction of Christs ministry.


He spoke in parables
if not in parables, he did not spake
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:16:17 PM EDT
[#10]
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Wasn't it John who said there weren't enough books in the world to record all of Christ's miracles?

So that must mean the ones that were recorded were selected for a reason.  

Have you noticed most of this healings were on the Sabbath?  Why?  To "stick it" to the religious establishment?  They are the ones who said no work on the Sabbath but as Jesus said "if one you had a sheep fall in a well on the Sabbath, who among you would not fetch it out?"  Clearly some work is then approved and indeed encouraged.  

Let me admit here that l am a simpleton.  In school when we were required to read books and figure out what the author meant, you know,  those classics like "Animal Farm", Slaughterhouse Five, and such,  l always pulled failing grades.  I never could understand them on anything other than the superficial surface.  

I have much the same problem reading the Bible.  I have a hard time gleaning things deeper. Yet l do better than the other readings.
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I agree with this answer.

Very little (per se) of what Christ actually said is in the Bible. Like Christ walked around completely silent his entire ministry, and only said and did what comparatively few things was actually written down.

What I believe is the answer is explained in these posts... The Bible contains only a fraction of Christs ministry.


Wasn't it John who said there weren't enough books in the world to record all of Christ's miracles?

So that must mean the ones that were recorded were selected for a reason.  

Have you noticed most of this healings were on the Sabbath?  Why?  To "stick it" to the religious establishment?  They are the ones who said no work on the Sabbath but as Jesus said "if one you had a sheep fall in a well on the Sabbath, who among you would not fetch it out?"  Clearly some work is then approved and indeed encouraged.  

Let me admit here that l am a simpleton.  In school when we were required to read books and figure out what the author meant, you know,  those classics like "Animal Farm", Slaughterhouse Five, and such,  l always pulled failing grades.  I never could understand them on anything other than the superficial surface.  

I have much the same problem reading the Bible.  I have a hard time gleaning things deeper. Yet l do better than the other readings.


Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath.  

keep reading it will come.  

NKJ
KJ
YLT

understand them.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:24:15 PM EDT
[#11]
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Here's one for you guys. It's always stumped me as far as chronology is concerned:

There are numerous verses where Christ or the Apostles allude to the idea that the return of Christ will be within the lifespans of those early Christians. For example,

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

There are numerous others. I have looked up commentaries and the like, but I would like you'als take on it.
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RE: The coming of the son of Man.

He is present multiple times.  Even if you do not see his ministry as a return, what does that have to do with Mathew's verse ".....the Son of man Comes"  Comes, Not Returns.  Though, he arguably returned, since (and there are more reasons)


1) Beresheet (In the Beginning) there was THE WORD.  The Word was With GOD.  And the Word Was GOD. Through Him all things were created.

2) Furthermore, in John,

        10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him:

        11 to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him


3) Furthermore, in ACTS

ACTS 4;10 12
be it known to all of you, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye did crucify, whom God did raise out of the dead, in him hath this one stood by before you whole.
Jesus did not openly declare himself the messiah to everyone.  To some he revealed the secrets of heavens, to some he ministered, and to some he rebuked, as only the lord can.  

"The son of man said, 'during this generation the son of man shall come' "    They did not know he was standing in front of them.  
Does this help
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:28:40 PM EDT
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I'm not sure about this. There are numerous other verses that speak to the preparedness and ambiguity of the end time in a better manner the these. Take the "thief in a night" verses for example.

No, the verses I am referring to are more specific in nature.
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Yes, a warning is what I get from it. I think procrastination was a trait of 'the 12' that frustrated Jesus.


I'm not sure about this. There are numerous other verses that speak to the preparedness and ambiguity of the end time in a better manner the these. Take the "thief in a night" verses for example.

No, the verses I am referring to are more specific in nature.


Daniel foretold the date of the Annointing
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:30:20 PM EDT
[#13]
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This is easily understood for Catholics as the understanding of Scripture is different is some ways that many Protestants. We take the Bible literally insofar as the author's intent, but not always for the words on the page. This is particularly the case with the Old Testament. Here is a decent article that may help some understand.

The Catholic Approach to Some Parts of Scripture

Paragraph #116 of the Catechism gives us more on the literal sense of Scripture, “The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: ‘All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.’”

Okay, what is being said here? Yes, Catholics take the Bible literally.  What that means, though, as the Catechism states, is that we look for the meaning that the author of any given Scripture passage meant to convey, we don’t just look at the words on the page and take them at face value.  An example: If I said that I went to a concert last night and there were a million people there, does that mean that I am trying to tell you that there were exactly one million people at the concert?  No, of course not.  Everyone in our particular culture would take that to mean that I went to a concert last night and it was absolutely overflowing with people.  That could mean hundreds, or even thousands, depending on the size of the arena where the concert was held, but it definitely does not mean exactly one million people, even though I actually said there were a million people there.  

This is what is known as an idiom of speech – using words that, taken at face value, actually mean one thing, to mean something else.  Another example: Often, when watching the weather reports on the local news, you’ll hear the weather person say something along the lines of, “The sun came up at 5:33 this morning.”  Everyone knows what that means.  Yet, that word – sunrise – taken at just a surface meaning, actually implies that the weather guy or gal thinks the sun is revolving around the earth.  The truth is, the sun does not rise in the morning.  What actually happens is that the earth’s rotation causes people to be able to see the sun at a particular time each morning. But, instead of saying, “The earth’s rotation caused the sun to come into view at 5:33 this morning,” we just say “the sun rose at 5:33 this morning,” and everyone knows the meaning we are intending to convey."
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Cain and Able were the first and second sons of Adam and Eve, the first humans.

After Cain murdered Able, God punished him by banishing him to be a restless wanderer of the Earth.  But to protect him, God marked Cain to prevent him from being slain by others.

Who are these others if not Adam and Eve or some of Cain’s younger siblings?


This is easily understood for Catholics as the understanding of Scripture is different is some ways that many Protestants. We take the Bible literally insofar as the author's intent, but not always for the words on the page. This is particularly the case with the Old Testament. Here is a decent article that may help some understand.

The Catholic Approach to Some Parts of Scripture

Paragraph #116 of the Catechism gives us more on the literal sense of Scripture, “The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: ‘All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.’”

Okay, what is being said here? Yes, Catholics take the Bible literally.  What that means, though, as the Catechism states, is that we look for the meaning that the author of any given Scripture passage meant to convey, we don’t just look at the words on the page and take them at face value.  An example: If I said that I went to a concert last night and there were a million people there, does that mean that I am trying to tell you that there were exactly one million people at the concert?  No, of course not.  Everyone in our particular culture would take that to mean that I went to a concert last night and it was absolutely overflowing with people.  That could mean hundreds, or even thousands, depending on the size of the arena where the concert was held, but it definitely does not mean exactly one million people, even though I actually said there were a million people there.  

This is what is known as an idiom of speech – using words that, taken at face value, actually mean one thing, to mean something else.  Another example: Often, when watching the weather reports on the local news, you’ll hear the weather person say something along the lines of, “The sun came up at 5:33 this morning.”  Everyone knows what that means.  Yet, that word – sunrise – taken at just a surface meaning, actually implies that the weather guy or gal thinks the sun is revolving around the earth.  The truth is, the sun does not rise in the morning.  What actually happens is that the earth’s rotation causes people to be able to see the sun at a particular time each morning. But, instead of saying, “The earth’s rotation caused the sun to come into view at 5:33 this morning,” we just say “the sun rose at 5:33 this morning,” and everyone knows the meaning we are intending to convey."


The lord rebuke
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:37:42 PM EDT
[#14]
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He had to be difficult in some ways. Could you imagine having a disagreement with Jesus?  In the book of Mark, everybody seemed scared out their minds whenever he showed up. He even flashed anger on occasion (Mark 3:5).

But did he have belching competitions with his bros around the fire? I want to think he did things like that. Did he pet dogs and make them bicycle? (they have paws and are unclean so likely not). The bible records the dramatic, but what was Jesus like in the mundane. I suspect he was loving, kind, patient, etc.... But did ask his disciples to ponder the question: Why did chicken cross the road?  
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This is off-topic in my own thread, but I've wondered what Jesus was like in "real life". As you've said: We only know a tiny fraction of what His life was like. There was a series on the Bible on Netflix that was pretty good, and there's a scene on the life of Jesus where He and Peter are sitting in a boat on shore after he'd recruited some of the disciples. Peter asks Him (paraphrasing) "So now what? What are we gonna do?" Jesus replies with a sly smile "We're going to change the world." We all have a version of what Jesus was like in our heads, but ultimately we don't know. He *was* human after all. Did He goof around? Did He tell tell jokes? Was He always serious? Was there a food He hated? What kind of a kid was He? I never thought about that before seeing this scene in a relatively insignificant movie/documentary.


He had to be difficult in some ways. Could you imagine having a disagreement with Jesus?  In the book of Mark, everybody seemed scared out their minds whenever he showed up. He even flashed anger on occasion (Mark 3:5).

But did he have belching competitions with his bros around the fire? I want to think he did things like that. Did he pet dogs and make them bicycle? (they have paws and are unclean so likely not). The bible records the dramatic, but what was Jesus like in the mundane. I suspect he was loving, kind, patient, etc.... But did ask his disciples to ponder the question: Why did chicken cross the road?  



How can the imperfect look upon the perfect? Sin unto the redeemer?

Jesus is The Love and The Law, Justice and Mercy, The good shepherd, the door, the testament, and the judgement.  

The light confounds the darkness.

"Love each other like I have loved you, for that people shall know you are mine"
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 6:44:34 PM EDT
[#15]
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It is not a red herring but a very important clarification of doctrine.

I also have no idea who your "people" are, but it is never good when any group is "destroyed" for their beliefs.
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I don't know what that red herring is about.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.


It is not a red herring but a very important clarification of doctrine.

I also have no idea who your "people" are, but it is never good when any group is "destroyed" for their beliefs.


It is an important quote from Hosea, as pertaining to this discussion

God destroys many for their beliefs. God is Good.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 7:21:21 PM EDT
[#16]
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All things are made through Christ.

Christ was in the beginning.

Christ returned (1st time) EXACTLY when those early Christians lived.  

HE WHO HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR
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Daniel foretold the date of the Annointing
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The lord rebuke
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I mean this sincerely and without any disrespect; What in the world has anything you've posted have to do with the questions being asked?

I really am trying to follow but it's almost as though someone is asking what is the capital of Idaho, and you answer with "Bananas are shaped like a boomerang".

Could you please clarify a bit more? I get the gist of what you are attempting to do, which is sound profound and mysterious in your replies, but I need some context in order to follow along.

Link Posted: 3/14/2021 7:40:40 PM EDT
[#17]
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I mean this sincerely and without any disrespect; What in the world has anything you've posted have to do with the questions being asked?

I really am trying to follow but it's almost as though someone is asking what is the capital of Idaho, and you answer with "Bananas are shaped like a boomerang".

Could you please clarify a bit more? I get the gist of what you are attempting to do, which is sound profound and mysterious in your replies, but I need some context in order to follow along.

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All things are made through Christ.

Christ was in the beginning.

Christ returned (1st time) EXACTLY when those early Christians lived.  

HE WHO HAS EARS, LET HIM HEAR

Quoted:


Daniel foretold the date of the Annointing

Quoted:


The lord rebuke


I mean this sincerely and without any disrespect; What in the world has anything you've posted have to do with the questions being asked?

I really am trying to follow but it's almost as though someone is asking what is the capital of Idaho, and you answer with "Bananas are shaped like a boomerang".

Could you please clarify a bit more? I get the gist of what you are attempting to do, which is sound profound and mysterious in your replies, but I need some context in order to follow along.




I would be happy to explain anything.  I have made allusions to scripture, where do you want clarification. Start with the first question, perhaps?
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 7:46:37 PM EDT
[#18]
btw im not trying to sound deep or hold any mystery, the bible sounds deep on its' own and through it these questions are answered.
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 7:46:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
He spoke in parables
if not in parables, he did not spake
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Quoted:

I would be happy to explain anything.  I have made allusions to scripture, where do you want clarification. Start with the first question, perhaps?
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Here's one:

He spoke many times without using parables, so do you mean only when teaching He used parables?
Link Posted: 3/14/2021 8:33:26 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


He spoke in parables
if not in parables, he did not spake
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Alternately, Jesus could have filled them in before the Ascention.  You know they talked endlessly for those 40 days but so little of that seems to have been written down.


This is also a plausible answer. Sometimes people forget that the Bible contains only a minute part of the things that Jesus did, said, and revealed.


I agree with this answer.

Very little (per se) of what Christ actually said is in the Bible. Like Christ walked around completely silent his entire ministry, and only said and did what comparatively few things was actually written down.

What I believe is the answer is explained in these posts... The Bible contains only a fraction of Christs ministry.


He spoke in parables
if not in parables, he did not spake



To clarify, i quoted Mathew 13, whereupon Jesus explains why he speaks to the multitudes only in parables.  

The bible is sufficiently rich in describing the character of Christ.  Every single book speaks of him, in one way or another.

There is none more well known.  Sufficiently described, that to seek him is the way to salvation.  

But now, like before,

"made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close, lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand, and turn back, and I might heal them.

And happy are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear,
for verily I say to you, that many prophets and righteous men did desire to see that which ye look on, and they did not see, and to hear that which ye hear, and they did not hear."

We know more about the messiah than Solomon, but we are unsatisfied.

His Grace is sufficient.

We wonder if he ministered OTHER TIMES, as if we fully grasp that which has been told. The gate is narrow, it must be actively sought.

In Jesus name I bid that you all seek the light, and beware of false doctrines.  
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 6:24:22 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


Daniel foretold the date of the Annointing
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Yes, a warning is what I get from it. I think procrastination was a trait of 'the 12' that frustrated Jesus.


I'm not sure about this. There are numerous other verses that speak to the preparedness and ambiguity of the end time in a better manner the these. Take the "thief in a night" verses for example.

No, the verses I am referring to are more specific in nature.


Daniel foretold the date of the Annointing


To clarify - The Prophet Daniel has prophecies concerning the end times.  There are essentially two "end times"..   The anointing is a key concept here.  

There are essentially two halves to the story of the Earth.  There are two covenants.  Two times, basically. The "time of the jews" and the "time of the gentiles", OT/NT, for after Jesus one could be grafted into the "house of Israel" through faith in Jesus.  See Paul's gospel, and his argument with peter, who admitted that paul was right.

The, Masha/Messiach/"Anointed one"/"He who is spread out like water", victorious against death. A high Priest FOREVER, unto the order of Melchezidik.  Before He is anointed on the Cross, and he sits on the Mercy seat, he calls those "the last days" ... but that was 2000 years ago.  I will stop there, for it is sweeter to find yourself in the scripture, and you will see, for the holy spirit is active in this time.  But you must seek.  

"For ours is The God of Knowledge"
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 12:01:14 AM EDT
[#22]
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Few I've wondered, as I just read through the Bible cover to cover in the last 10 months. First time actually finishing in less than a year.

Why do people live past 120 years after God said their years would be limited to 120?
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I have read this as a 120 year clock started counting down to the flood.  I checked the Geneology, and Noah fathered sons after 500 years old.  The Flood occurred when Noah was 600.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 12:08:09 AM EDT
[#23]
It's been a while since I read the Bible.  
It struck me as odd that, at first, God had to look to men for advice.  He is God, he should know everything.
Also, the difference in God between the Old Testament, and the New Testament.  In the Old Testament, he was a punishing God.  In the New Testament, his personality changed to a loving God.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 12:11:40 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
It's been a while since I read the Bible.  
It struck me as odd that, at first, God had to look to men for advice.  He is God, he should know everything.
Also, the difference in God between the Old Testament, and the New Testament.  In the Old Testament, he was a punishing God.  In the New Testament, his personality changed to a loving God.
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Look to men for advice - cite?

Different “Gods” = Marcionism and is easily shown false if you throw up some sample citations.

Link Posted: 3/18/2021 12:34:59 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
It's been a while since I read the Bible.  
It struck me as odd that, at first, God had to look to men for advice.  He is God, he should know everything.
Also, the difference in God between the Old Testament, and the New Testament.  In the Old Testament, he was a punishing God.  In the New Testament, his personality changed to a loving God.
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This is a common misconception held by some who have not spent much time comparing the Old and New Testaments. There is, among this group, a tendency to ascribe a wrathful nature to the "God of the Old Testament" and a loving and clement nature to the "God of the New Testament". This is ludicrous from so many different vantage points.

If you are interested in an explanation of this error but are wary of too profound a jump into the works of men like Aquinas or Augustine, then read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It does an excellent job, in layman's terms, of highlighting the failings of this idea using simple analogies, common sense, and reasoning.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 11:26:55 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
It's been a while since I read the Bible.  
It struck me as odd that, at first, God had to look to men for advice.  He is God, he should know everything.
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Quoted:
It's been a while since I read the Bible.  
It struck me as odd that, at first, God had to look to men for advice.  He is God, he should know everything.


Maybe view it as you asking your child for what flavor of Ice Cream they want.

Not so much taking advice, but including your wants, dream, into his overarching plan for the redemption of mankind as they fit into it. This is why we pray.  


Quoted:
Also, the difference in God between the Old Testament, and the New Testament.  In the Old Testament, he was a punishing God.  In the New Testament, his personality changed to a loving God.


He was loving in the OT also (see book of Hosea).  And he was punishing in the NT (see the sack of Jerusalem). Just as he sent Babylon and Assyria to punish teach Israel in the Old Testament, so also did he use the Romans just after the New Testament.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 1:28:51 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
He was loving in the OT also (see book of Hosea).  And he was punishing in the NT (see the sack of Jerusalem). Just as he sent Babylon and Assyria to punish teach Israel in the Old Testament, so also did he use the Romans just after the New Testament.
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There are strands of discipline and patience throughout both testaments, but yes these are some examples.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 9:44:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 9:52:45 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

Which of St. Thomas' works is that discussed in? I have all three Summas, but I haven't read but a tiny bit.
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You are making me reach WAY back into my memory now! LOL

MAYBE The First Part of the Second Part, 105-110?

Someone else feel free to correct me here.
Link Posted: 3/18/2021 11:08:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Not sure he devotes any articles to Marcionism in the ST. Maybe the SCG?

The referenced sections are comparing the old vs new law, but not specific claims of God being different.

Tertullian wrote 5 books against Marcion.

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0312.htm
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 8:35:56 AM EDT
[#31]
There has only been one person alleged to live over 120 and it is very possible she was not that old when she died. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/02/17/was-jeanne-calment-the-oldest-person-who-ever-lived-or-a-fraud
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 7:45:35 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:



Here's one:

He spoke many times without using parables, so do you mean only when teaching He used parables?
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Jesus spoke in parables because..

John 2:24 But Jesus didn’t trust them, because he knew all about people.

People in the context is his lost sheep..

Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts,

Mathew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh
against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Jesus is referencing Gabriel the Holy Spirit, as his sheep  
favored Michael, since Gabriel did not deliver the sheep (to say it nicely).. Ezekiel.

Mathew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil,
speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Luke 22:43 And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, to strengthening him

Mathew 26:56 Then all the disciples forsook him, and fled.

Jesus knew what and when to say to his own, as the Angel Gabriel revealed what our Father revealed, the truth as I have received.
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 8:03:57 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Jesus is referencing Gabriel the Holy Spirit, as his sheep  
favored Michael, since Gabriel did not deliver the sheep (to say it nicely).. Ezekiel.
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Where are you getting this from?

Gabriel cannot be the Holy Spirit. As part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is therefore God. Gabriel is not God.
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 9:30:45 PM EDT
[#34]
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Quoted:

Where are you getting this from?

Gabriel cannot be the Holy Spirit. As part of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit is therefore God. Gabriel is not God.
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Again as I have received it, “your” truth or journey may differ.

Holy Spirit is referenced in the Bible in the context of..

1. Revelation of God or guiding system, no disagreement here.

2. Angel who brings revelation-Law

Daniel  8;15, 9:21, Gabriel is the first Angel who introduces

Michael, Zakaria-Mary Luke 1:11, 1:38, answering Jesus prayer not to be crucified Luke 22:43 Angel answers prayer..

3. Prophet ...Jesus Promises  Another Helper conditional departure..

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper..

John 16:7..It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you;..but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Mathew 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

A  series of Angels and prophets.

Mathew 22:35-40..On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Based on Jesus own words God is one but St.Paul-Trinity incorporated the Roman concept of Mitra the sun god, Sunday worship etc..while first Christians were pure monotheistic by “practice”.

If I say Jesus said he came for his lost sheep not Gentiles (Mathew 15:24) I would be dismissed disregarded because it doesn’t conform with Nicea doctrine and Rabbi means master not lord.

John 16:12 I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.


Good luck on your journey brother.


Link Posted: 3/31/2021 9:40:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 10:05:50 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:

Let's just say that you're on your own with that interpretation.

Now let's get back to the thread subject...
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Fair enough on my own and experiencing, back on topic.

Job 25:4 how can he be clean that is born of a woman

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Link Posted: 3/31/2021 10:19:58 PM EDT
[#37]
What made me go Hmmmm is when I was impacted by the truth of the crucifixion and resurection.  I've heard the message my entire life.  One day, it hit me and I couldn't stop researching it.  

I'm a believer.  For better or worse, I'm a believer.
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 10:39:49 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
Job 25:4 how can he be clean that is born of a woman

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

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Job: We can't be clean because we all were born with the stain of Original Sin. How then does this apply to Christ...look into the Immaculate Conception.

Mark 10:18
"None is good. Of himself, entirely and essentially, but God alone: men may be good also, but only by a participation of God's goodness."
Link Posted: 3/31/2021 11:01:19 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:


Job: We can't be clean because we all were born with the stain of Original Sin. How then does this apply to Christ...look into the Immaculate Conception.

Mark 10:18
"None is good. Of himself, entirely and essentially, but God alone: men may be good also, but only by a participation of God's goodness."
View Quote


The issue with inherit sin is it suggest babies are born flawed and not of angelic pure realm which contradicts...

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The crucifixion has eye witness problem (Mark 14:50) Angel came to strengthen and answer Jesus prayer to pass the cup, hiding as a gardener (John 20:14-15) why hide unless your still Alive as Jesus said his last sign is the sign of Jonah
(Mathew 12:38). Jonah never died in the belly of the fish.

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Jesus will return and was of miraculous birth, but he is not God according to own words and a resurrected person needs not to hide in disguise.

Link Posted: 4/1/2021 8:11:40 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
Jesus will return and was of miraculous birth, but he is not God according to own words and a resurrected person needs not to hide in disguise.
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@Apollyon123
Christ is not God, but the Archangel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit? That's a new one.

Moreover, by saying "a resurrected person needs not to hide in disguise" are you somehow implying that Christ did not resurrect?

There are more books in the Bible than Ezekiel. I think you could profit from looking into them.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 9:23:51 PM EDT
[#41]
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Quoted:


@Apollyon123
Christ is not God, but the Archangel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit? That's a new one.

Moreover, by saying "a resurrected person needs not to hide in disguise" are you somehow implying that Christ did not resurrect?

There are more books in the Bible than Ezekiel. I think you could profit from looking into them.
View Quote


Third party evidence does not support death and resurrection.
The sacrifice was Confirmed with Abraham and his son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will  guide you into all truth! For He Shall Not
Speak From Himself
But Whatsoever He Shall Hear, That Shall  He Speak.

John 12: 49 For I speak not from myself; but the Father that sent me, he hath given me the commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Luke 12:12: ” For the Holy Ghost shall teach you
in the same hour what ye ought to say.”

1 John 4: 1 Beloved, believe not every Spirit, but
try the Spirits
whether they are of God; because
many false Prophets are gone out into the World.

1 John 4: 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit 1 of God: Every Spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God.

Source of revelation is “always” an Angel who appears in form of a man, transmitting the truth of God through a prophet.The term ghost now appears correct as spirit, Greek (Pneuma) translate’s to spirit. As I noted prior and per context spirit is either in reference to prophets or archangel Gabriel.

The Comforter (John 14: 26) is not the “Holy Ghost” because Jesus explained - John 14: 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you Another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever.

Up to you to find the “another” and who Moses noted in - Deuteronomy 18:18 like Moses in all regard, birth, death, nation.
Link Posted: 4/5/2021 10:28:52 PM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 4/9/2021 9:38:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 9:43:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Here’s one that I find perplexing. Why does Joseph have two different fathers?

The only two Gospels that even attempt to provide us with Joseph’s lineage, disagree with each other in one of the most damning contradictions found in the NT.

Matthew 1:16 tells us that Joseph’s father was Jacob.

Luke 3:23 tells us that Joseph’s father was Heli

Link Posted: 4/22/2021 9:48:35 AM EDT
[#45]
I would imagine someone of Jewish faith would understand how a Jewish writer would record a family history vs. a gentile writer.

Right?
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 9:51:24 AM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:
I would imagine someone of Jewish faith would understand how a Jewish writer would record a family history vs. a gentile writer.

Right?
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Yup. Neither are mine.

"You may have noticed that Luke says Joseph’s father was Heli. So the question is, who was Joseph’s father, Jacob or Heli? Remember, Luke is researching the life of Christ so he would have chosen to look at public or family records. During those days in the land of Israel, the women were placed under the protection of their fathers until they married and then upon marriage, they were placed under the protection of their husbands. Today, for instance, in many Middle Eastern countries, women are placed in the passports of the fathers until marriage and then in the passports of their husbands upon marriage. On paper, it looks like the women do not exist and when searching for their documents you have to look under the name of the father or the husband. That is what life was like during Joseph and Mary’s days. Mary would have been placed under the name of her husband so when looking to see who the father of Mary was, you would have to look under Joseph’s name, hence Joseph appears (on paper) to have two fathers. Heli is the father of Mary. So, Luke presents  Christ’s heritage through His mother Mary, back to David. Jesus is the rightful ruler of the throne of David, both from His mother’s side and His earthly father’s side.

As you can see, there is no contradiction in the Bible. Joseph has one father and his name is Jacob. Heli is Joseph’s father-in-law. So those who claim that the Bible contradicts itself by saying that Joseph has 2 different fathers, are wrong and they prove that they do not study the Bible and do not understand the cultural context of the Bible. I hope that this has been helpful to you."

"Moreover, in the genealogy, Heli is listed as the father of Joseph, who had 2 daughters. The first is Mary, and the other was Zebedee’s unnamed wife (Matthew 27:56; John 19:25). When there were no sons to preserve the inheritance in accordance with the Law of Moses (Numbers 27:1–11; Numbers 36:1–12), the husband would become the son upon marriage to keep up the family name. Therefore, Joseph, when he married Mary, became the son of Heli according to the Law of Moses and could legally be included in the genealogy."

So either we are dealing with someone who is poor in knowledge of their own faith, or someone who is aware of this and merely trying to stir the pot.

Link Posted: 4/22/2021 10:01:45 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:


Yup. Neither are mine.

"You may have noticed that Luke says Joseph’s father was Heli. So the question is, who was Joseph’s father, Jacob or Heli? Remember, Luke is researching the life of Christ so he would have chosen to look at public or family records. During those days in the land of Israel, the women were placed under the protection of their fathers until they married and then upon marriage, they were placed under the protection of their husbands. Today, for instance, in many Middle Eastern countries, women are placed in the passports of the fathers until marriage and then in the passports of their husbands upon marriage. On paper, it looks like the women do not exist and when searching for their documents you have to look under the name of the father or the husband. That is what life was like during Joseph and Mary’s days. Mary would have been placed under the name of her husband so when looking to see who the father of Mary was, you would have to look under Joseph’s name, hence Joseph appears (on paper) to have two fathers. Heli is the father of Mary. So, Luke presents  Christ’s heritage through His mother Mary, back to David. Jesus is the rightful ruler of the throne of David, both from His mother’s side and His earthly father’s side.

As you can see, there is no contradiction in the Bible. Joseph has one father and his name is Jacob. Heli is Joseph’s father-in-law. So those who claim that the Bible contradicts itself by saying that Joseph has 2 different fathers, are wrong and they prove that they do not study the Bible and do not understand the cultural context of the Bible. I hope that this has been helpful to you."

"Moreover, in the genealogy, Heli is listed as the father of Joseph, who had 2 daughters. The first is Mary, and the other was Zebedee’s unnamed wife (Matthew 27:56; John 19:25). When there were no sons to preserve the inheritance in accordance with the Law of Moses (Numbers 27:1–11; Numbers 36:1–12), the husband would become the son upon marriage to keep up the family name. Therefore, Joseph, when he married Mary, became the son of Heli according to the Law of Moses and could legally be included in the genealogy."

So either we are dealing with someone who is poor in knowledge of their own faith, or someone who is aware of this and merely trying to stir the pot.

View Quote


No agenda here.  I’m just pointing out what I believe to be “damning contradictions” in order to learn.
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 10:03:52 AM EDT
[#48]
The part where they describe Jesus then you see a pic of him on the wall and he has blonde hair and blue eyes lol
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 10:05:34 AM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
The part where they describe Jesus then you see a pic of him on the wall and he has blonde hair and blue eyes lol
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Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 4/22/2021 10:07:48 AM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:
No agenda here.  I’m just pointing out what I believe to be “damning contradictions” in order to learn.
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A most "perplexing" one...
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