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Posted: 4/19/2020 6:08:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your unscriptural answers only cause more questions. He's quoted Scripture directly. You've argued that you went straight to the Cross. Your words, not mine. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 6:10:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. I've been in Catholic Churches on five continents and I'll go ahead and non-concur on this observation. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 9:51:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By the way, for anyone wanting to know what the Catholic Church teaches, the Baltimore Catechism is excellent. It's brief, clear, and faithful. You can go to specific subjects directly or you can read the whole thing in a few hours or less. I think this is worth repeating, however I might qualify it by saying that this is what the Catholic Church "should be" (in an objective sense) teaching, even if in practice catechesis is lacking at a particular parish. I only point this out because growing up in a small rural Novus Ordo parish I was most certainly not taught this stuff. To an outsider (and some insiders), what they saw at one parish may not have accurately represented Catholic theology. I do remember a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment growing up. Jack Chick tracts were the main way a lot of people learned about the Church. Needless to say, these also do not accurately represent Catholic theology. I've never met a Catholic who believes anything like what those things say. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 10:15:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been in Catholic Churches on five continents and I'll go ahead and non-concur on this observation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. I've been in Catholic Churches on five continents and I'll go ahead and non-concur on this observation. I've already tried explaining to him that was only the case pre Guttenberg printing press when Bibles had to be printed by hand (try it some time with a quill and ink bottle and see how far you get) so some smaller, poorer parishes had to do without. Luther gave every literate and illiterate a Bible to interpret and redact on their own and now we have 40 thousand denominations with every one of them thinking they're smarter than the original Bibleless Church Fathers who administered the Sacraments (including Holy Orders) and taught from memory and tradition alone. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 10:38:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think this is worth repeating, however I might qualify it by saying that this is what the Catholic Church "should be" (in an objective sense) teaching, even if in practice catechesis is lacking at a particular parish. I only point this out because growing up in a small rural Novus Ordo parish I was most certainly not taught this stuff. To an outsider (and some insiders), what they saw at one parish may not have accurately represented Catholic theology. I do remember a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment growing up. Jack Chick tracts were the main way a lot of people learned about the Church. Needless to say, these also do not accurately represent Catholic theology. I've never met a Catholic who believes anything like what those things say. We had one old farm wife religion teacher (God bless her) who trash canned the new age commie book we were given by the diocese and taught us from the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism instead. The mid 60's on up were a horrible time for Catholic education (and the Church in general) and we have only bore bushels of rotten fruit and lost souls since then. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 9:23:53 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had one old farm wife religion teacher (God bless her) who trash canned the new age commie book we were given by the diocese and taught us from the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism instead. The mid 60's on up were a horrible time for Catholic education (and the Church in general) and we have only bore bushels of rotten fruit and lost souls since then. I agree. Doing away with the Baltimore charlatanism was a huge mistake. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 2:58:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nothing here is Scriptural. Just Catholic Catechism #5 The Protestors Your church claims to have wrote the Bible,etc, This is a lie. That claim has never been made by the church or in this thread But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. Another lie. Its obvious that you have never read the New Testament for yourself. If you did you would be a protester to. Amazing personal insight! Martin Luther did, and so did I. Aren't you special. And in rare company. Gnosticism on parade. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 3:02:28 PM EDT
[#8]
If God doesn’t care about good deeds, why would he care about bad?
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:16:12 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's quoted Scripture directly. You've argued that you went straight to the Cross. Your words, not mine. Yes I went to the Cross, its the answer and the only answer that God sent for mans problem, which is sin. Everything you need from Salvation, deliverance from sin and bondages and the ability to live a life pleasing to God is found in the Cross. The Cross, is the foundation (Cornerstone) of the Christian church and all doctrine comes from it. If there is another place or thing to do, please tell us. 1 Cor1:17-18 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:28:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've already tried explaining to him that was only the case pre Guttenberg printing press when Bibles had to be printed by hand (try it some time with a quill and ink bottle and see how far you get) so some smaller, poorer parishes had to do without. Luther gave every literate and illiterate a Bible to interpret and redact on their own and now we have 40 thousand denominations with every one of them thinking they're smarter than the original Bibleless Church Fathers who administered the Sacraments (including Holy Orders) and taught from memory and tradition alone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. I've been in Catholic Churches on five continents and I'll go ahead and non-concur on this observation. I've already tried explaining to him that was only the case pre Guttenberg printing press when Bibles had to be printed by hand (try it some time with a quill and ink bottle and see how far you get) so some smaller, poorer parishes had to do without. Luther gave every literate and illiterate a Bible to interpret and redact on their own and now we have 40 thousand denominations with every one of them thinking they're smarter than the original Bibleless Church Fathers who administered the Sacraments (including Holy Orders) and taught from memory and tradition alone. I never saw a Bible in grade school, just religion books that were printed by the church. have been in Catholic churches from time to time for funerals, weddings. Last time was last year, never saw a Bible. So your church Fathers were Bibleless? May want to read what I posted to H46driver on Peter preaching the Gospel with the Old Testament, Jesus was the Word in the flesh. And in 2 Peter 3: 15-16 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Peter must have read some or all of Pauls letters because Peter talked about them. The book of Romans must have been written to another church in Rome, because you say you didn't have it. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:36:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bold statements. Apparently, in addition to assured forgiveness, God also gave you the gift of clairvoyance since you can 'know' what abnk has read and studied, permission to bear false witness whenever you choose to, and fellowship with Luther. Gnosticism on parade. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nothing here is Scriptural. Just Catholic Catechism #5 The Protestors Your church claims to have wrote the Bible,etc, This is a lie. That claim has never been made by the church or in this thread But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. Another lie. Its obvious that you have never read the New Testament for yourself. If you did you would be a protester to. Amazing personal insight! Martin Luther did, and so did I. Aren't you special. And in rare company. Gnosticism on parade. Why can't anybody know they are saved? The writers of the NT did, otherwise they would not be able to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You just don't believe anything. I agree with you, Catholics did not write any of the New Testament, and its easy to tell if some one does read a Bible, from the things they say. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:37:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had one old farm wife religion teacher (God bless her) who trash canned the new age commie book we were given by the diocese and taught us from the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism instead. The mid 60's on up were a horrible time for Catholic education (and the Church in general) and we have only bore bushels of rotten fruit and lost souls since then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think this is worth repeating, however I might qualify it by saying that this is what the Catholic Church "should be" (in an objective sense) teaching, even if in practice catechesis is lacking at a particular parish. I only point this out because growing up in a small rural Novus Ordo parish I was most certainly not taught this stuff. To an outsider (and some insiders), what they saw at one parish may not have accurately represented Catholic theology. I do remember a lot of anti-Catholic sentiment growing up. Jack Chick tracts were the main way a lot of people learned about the Church. Needless to say, these also do not accurately represent Catholic theology. I've never met a Catholic who believes anything like what those things say. We had one old farm wife religion teacher (God bless her) who trash canned the new age commie book we were given by the diocese and taught us from the St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism instead. The mid 60's on up were a horrible time for Catholic education (and the Church in general) and we have only bore bushels of rotten fruit and lost souls since then. Theres more then 1 Catholic catechism? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:39:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with you, Catholics did not write any of the New Testament, and its easy to tell if some one does read a Bible, from the things they say. I'm missing your argument... So, the Catholic Church DIDN'T canonize the Bible? |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 5:41:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm missing your argument... So, the Catholic Church DIDN'T canonize the Bible? I do believe that is what Twire said. Me -Your church claims to have wrote the Bible,etc, Twire-This is a lie. That claim has never been made by the church or in this thread I don't know how to use this editor, to properly post the quote. |
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Posted: 4/20/2020 11:05:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But you will never see a Bible in a Catholic church, just printed material from the Catholic church. I am not a Catholic. But I know that statement is not accurate. We went to Mass ~two years ago. They had scriptures all over the place. And they quoted from scripture left, right, and upside down. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 1:25:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do believe that is what Twire said. Me -Your church claims to have wrote the Bible,etc, Twire-This is a lie. That claim has never been made by the church or in this thread I don't know how to use this editor, to properly post the quote. You argue very passionately but with a deliberately obtuse understanding. You are the blunt instrument of Christian fundamentalism. How someone with that much hate can call themselves saved is beyond me. |
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Posted: 4/21/2020 5:13:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I said that as a direct rebuttal to your lies and mischaracterizations. And that statement has NOTHING to do the fact that the CANON of scripture was compiled and approved by the Catholic Church, i.e. there is no Bible without the Church. Nor does that have anything to do with the fact that the Bible is a PRODUCT of Divine revelation and not a singular source of revelation. You argue very passionately but with a deliberately obtuse understanding. You are the blunt instrument of Christian fundamentalism. How someone with that much hate can call themselves saved is beyond me. In all my posts I used Scripture to answer questions and comments directed at me. If you don't know if your saved? then maybe you should look at your Church and figure out why? As I said in an earlier post, the Book of Romans was written to some other Church in Rome and not whats called the Roman Catholic church. Because Romans refutes everything in the Catholic Church. Rom 8: 14-17 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. |
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Posted: 4/22/2020 10:23:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because Romans refutes everything in the Catholic Church.  Like... Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, ...among others. If you read Romans in isolation rather than in the context of the entire New Testament, you would be convinced into being a hardcore Calvinist. Then again maybe you already are. You really let the hate flow, man. The use of the term 'blunt instrument' earlier by me was unfortunate in that it likely offended hammers everywhere. |
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Posted: 4/22/2020 5:12:22 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like... Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, ...among others. If you read Romans in isolation rather than in the context of the entire New Testament, you would be convinced into being a hardcore Calvinist. Then again maybe you already are. You really let the hate flow, man. The use of the term 'blunt instrument' earlier by me was unfortunate in that it likely offended hammers everywhere. Rom 3:24-27 The Cross and the Cross only 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 9:52:12 AM EDT
[#20]
So....you choose Romans quote B only, the RCC chooses quotes A+B but the RCC is totally wrong and you are totally right. In your world The Bible is the ultimate authority...except when the scripture passage disagrees with your mindset. That's rich.
No, that's historical ignorance and incredible hubris. But, it must be nice to be able to pick and choose which parts of the Bible are worthy of consideration and which are able to be discarded. |
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Posted: 4/23/2020 5:32:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So....you choose Romans quote B only, the RCC chooses quotes A+B but the RCC is totally wrong and you are totally right. In your world The Bible is the ultimate authority...except when the scripture passage disagrees with your mindset. That's rich. No, that's historical ignorance and incredible hubris. But, it must be nice to be able to pick and choose which parts of the Bible are worthy of consideration and which are able to be discarded. Don't you always post the same 3 verses picked out of a conversation and twist them to your liking? I could have posted the whole Book of Romans, And the whole Bible is about Jesus Christ the Living Word. Faith alone in Him is what saves and Sanctifies. John 1: 1-4 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Also John 1:14 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Matt 4:4 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. The Word became Flesh, Jesus Christ. was the Word in the Flesh. The Bible is the Word of God, Jesus is the living Word. Theres you Biblical "Sola Scripture only", Spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Matt 4:4 "Consume the Word" The Bible, it will shed some Light and His Life into your darkened church. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 8:35:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you always post the same 3 verses picked out of a conversation and twist them to your liking? I could have posted the whole Book of Romans, And the whole Bible is about Jesus Christ the Living Word. Faith alone in Him is what saves and Sanctifies. Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't you always post the same 3 verses picked out of a conversation and twist them to your liking? I could have posted the whole Book of Romans, And the whole Bible is about Jesus Christ the Living Word. Faith alone in Him is what saves and Sanctifies. 'Faith alone' appears nowhere in the Bible. The Word became Flesh, Jesus Christ. was the Word in the Flesh. The Bible is the Word of God, Jesus is the living Word. Theres you Biblical "Sola Scripture only", Spoken by Jesus Christ himself. Matt 4:4 "Consume the Word" The Bible, it will shed some Light and His Life into your darkened church. There is more scripture in a single Catholic Mass than most people read in weeks. Get over your hatred and prejudice. I think your tiresome comments have revealed your true colors. |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 6:14:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And I could post the whole book of James and you would also ignore that. 'Faith alone' appears nowhere in the Bible. Do you really believe that I haven't read the Bible and don't continue to do so? There's that divine gift of clairvoyance again. You really do have 'special knowledge.' There is more scripture in a single Catholic Mass than most people read in weeks. Get over your hatred and prejudice. I think your tiresome comments have revealed your true colors. Disagreeing with you is not hate, however you hate everyone that left your church. And its evident in your posts. I have read James, but its not, Work in order to receive from God, its works as a result of Faith. Glad to see your reading the Bible, keep reading, you will see all the numerous Scriptures about Faith alone. to many to post. I am so glad the Lord save me from that bondage of religion your in, same thing over and over and over again, but not even knowing if your saved. That alone should make you see its wrong. Keep working, when you get tired then go to the Cross and rest in the Finished Work of Jesus Christ and what He did there. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. John 6: 28-29 |
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Posted: 4/24/2020 6:19:55 PM EDT
[#24]
This has reached its end.
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