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Posted: 9/7/2010 9:18:31 PM EDT
On one hand, if their hearts are full of hate, not OK.

On the other hand, it's just a book in the eyes of a Christian. So then, where should a good Christian stand on burning books?

Quote the Bible if possible, please.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:25:24 PM EDT
"Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver." (Acts 19:19)
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:32:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 5:39:41 AM EDT by Paul]
[conduct code violation remove, warning issued - Paul]
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:34:26 PM EDT
So are their actions immoral or merely amoral?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:34:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 2:10:11 PM EDT by HardShell]
< Comment removed –– please keep everything serious, respectful, and on-topic here. IM sent. HS >

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:35:33 PM EDT
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Luke 6:31
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:38:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
"Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver." (Acts 19:19)

It wasn't the Christians doing the burning, but the magicians. So if there were Muslims burning the Qur'ans, it would be one thing. But I think this is another.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:40:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ae1:

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
"Also, many of those who HAD practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver." (Acts 19:19)

It wasn't the Christians doing the burning, but the magicians. So if there were Muslims burning the Qur'ans, it would be one thing. But I think this is another.


reading comprehension fail

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:47:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 9:48:46 PM EDT by ae1]

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
Originally Posted By ae1:

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
"Also, many of those who HAD practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver." (Acts 19:19)

It wasn't the Christians doing the burning, but the magicians. So if there were Muslims burning the Qur'ans, it would be one thing. But I think this is another.


reading comprehension fail


OK, so is this a group of former Muslims burning Qur'ans?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:01:42 PM EDT
I think about 10 feet from the flames should do it.

Seriously, though, I don't get why we'd burn books at all. As a Christian, I think it's sending the wrong message. We're not sent here to tick off other people maliciously, we're here to present the message of Christ and serve one another. I don't really see where burning the Koran fits into this.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:15:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 10:16:21 PM EDT by Diehard187]
Originally Posted By tbonifie:
I think about 10 feet from the flames should do it.

Seriously, though, I don't get why we'd burn books at all. As a Christian, I think it's sending the wrong message. We're not sent here to tick off other people maliciously, we're here to present the message of Christ and serve one another. I don't really see where burning the Koran fits into this.


Do you think Jesus' attitude towards the money changers in the temple was "not to tick off other people" as you said? You cannot live your life according to other people's standards of what is offensive. The Koran is a false teaching and leads people to hell and therefore as a christian you should fight it and condemn it. I personally do not see any value in burning the koran in public for show but if you want to burn your own koran because you had a conversion to christianity, I would commend you as long as you did not spitefully burn it in public as a show to intentionally cause unnecessary strife.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:15:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tbonifie:
I think about 10 feet from the flames should do it.

Seriously, though, I don't get why we'd burn books at all. As a Christian, I think it's sending the wrong message. We're not sent here to tick off other people maliciously, we're here to present the message of Christ and serve one another. I don't really see where burning the Koran fits into this.

I agree completely.

I suppose the point of this thread is to understand where in the Bible DWOC finds its motivation.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 10:47:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:18:10 PM EDT by Dave_A]
Christianity is not a religion of a vengeful & hateful god who commands his followers to lash out at other religeons.

Now, God had plenty of wrath to dispense in the Old Testament, but that is nowhere to be found in the New. We see God's judgment played out on his own followers & those who pretend to follow for their own gain, but no 'striking down' of anyone who's not a Jew or Christian (or at least pretending to be such) in the NT...

There is no biblical basis for 'crusades' or 'forced conversion'... The example set by the apostles is one of reasoning with those of other faiths and convincing them to convert of their own free will, NOT of ransacking their towns, burning their stuff and forcing them to accept God or die... That's what the bad guys do - that's what Mohamed did... Not Christ.

There is also no Biblical basis for burning books of other religions with the intent of offending them - the only NT 'book-burning' is done by Christian converts, burning their OWN books as an expression of their abandoning their old ways (say, like an American who just became Christian burning his porn collection) - in fact, purposefully offending members of another religion by destroying copies of their holy book is about as un-Christian as it gets...

The Apostle Paul did not go through Greece smashing statues of the Olympians, and burning scrolls - he reasoned with those he encountered, in some cases using the local religion as a lead-in to convert men to Christianity (the Athenians had an altar to 'an unknown god' - Paul didn't break it, he said 'here is the unknown God - the one true one').

THAT is our model.

We're supposed to want them to find Christ, not antagonize them & confirm what their religeous leaders tell them about us...

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:14:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 11:26:11 PM EDT by Diehard187]
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Christianity is not a religion of a vengeful & hateful god who commands his followers to lash out at other religeons.

Now, God had plenty of wrath to dispense in the Old Testament, but that is nowhere to be found in the New. We see God's judgment played out on his own followers & those who pretend to follow for their own gain, but no 'striking down' of anyone who's not a Jew or Christian (or at least pretending to be such) in the NT...

There is no biblical basis for 'crusades' or 'forced conversion'... The example set by the apostles is one of reasoning with those of other faiths and convincing them to convert of their own free will, NOT of ransacking their towns, burning their stuff and forcing them to accept God or die... That's what the bad guys do - that's what Mohamed did... Not Christ.

There is also no Biblical basis for burning books of other religions with the intent of offending them - the only NT 'book-burning' is done by Christian converts, burning their OWN books as an expression of their abandoning their old ways (say, like an American who just became Christian burning his porn collection) - in fact, purposefully offending members of another religion by destroying copies of their holy book is about as un-Christian as it gets...

We're supposed to want them to find Christ, not antagonize them & confirm what their religeous leaders tell them about us...



Amen, brother, but the "vengeful God" part I disagree with.. " God is jealous, and the Lord avenges; The Lord avenges and is furious. The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;" (Nahum 1:2) and "Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord." (Romans 12:19)

Link Posted: 9/7/2010 11:40:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Christianity is not a religion of a vengeful & hateful god who commands his followers to lash out at other religeons.

Now, God had plenty of wrath to dispense in the Old Testament, but that is nowhere to be found in the New. We see God's judgment played out on his own followers & those who pretend to follow for their own gain, but no 'striking down' of anyone who's not a Jew or Christian (or at least pretending to be such) in the NT...

There is no biblical basis for 'crusades' or 'forced conversion'... The example set by the apostles is one of reasoning with those of other faiths and convincing them to convert of their own free will, NOT of ransacking their towns, burning their stuff and forcing them to accept God or die... That's what the bad guys do - that's what Mohamed did... Not Christ.

There is also no Biblical basis for burning books of other religions with the intent of offending them - the only NT 'book-burning' is done by Christian converts, burning their OWN books as an expression of their abandoning their old ways (say, like an American who just became Christian burning his porn collection) - in fact, purposefully offending members of another religion by destroying copies of their holy book is about as un-Christian as it gets...

We're supposed to want them to find Christ, not antagonize them & confirm what their religeous leaders tell them about us...



Amen, brother, but the "vengeful God" part I disagree with.. " God is jealous, and the Lord avenges; The Lord avenges and is furious. The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;" (Nahum 1:2) and "Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord." (Romans 12:19)


Agreed, in that personal sense...

The point was that God left the wholesale destruction of civilizations, 'holy war', and such behind in the OT...

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:41:29 AM EDT
Considering what we did in the crusades, and what the Israelites did back in the day. Is burning their book really all that bad?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:33:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 6:38:49 AM EDT by beready]
They burn our flag, our bible, they murder chirstians by the thousands around the world try and be a christian in a musilm country's. So i quess the sad thing according to The God of Aberham,Issac and Jacob is this
2 Peter 3:4-9
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
You will know christians by their love for one another.
1 John 4:7-11
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
Hear is what Our Lord and Savior had to say
Matthew 24:7-14 (NKJV)
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.
10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (The moon god allha)
12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:11:03 AM EDT
Paper contains substantial thermal energy. It could be quite useful on cold winter days.

I think it's ok, considering the great treatment we Christians recieve from the i-slam community.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 9:35:57 AM EDT
I think this is what what the true and living God would want us to do
Ephesians 5:11-14
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
(Killing of thousands on 9/11 In the words of Jesus Matthew 7:20 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them).
13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light."
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:13:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 11:13:51 AM EDT by Cognomen]
My personal opinion is that this church hasn't been able to justify their reasons at all. They may honestly believe that they are going to accomplish something, but it seems to be a publicity stunt and little more. In a recent interview, which was admittedly a bit of a hatchet job, the minister was utterly incapable of sufficiently explaining his or his church's motivations, or in countering his critics within Christianity.

This act will not do anything to "take a stand" against radical Islam, nor to bring anyone to Christianity; it will just be an embarrassment and danger to Christian communities. It will help to reinforce stereotypes of practicing Christians as uneducated, bigoted, and superstitious people.

ETA: I failed to give any Biblical citation, as the OP requested, but so did the church behind this.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 11:49:04 AM EDT
Quotes from tradition also work.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:30:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ae1:
Quotes from tradition also work.


Well couldn't the church who is burning the qurans use the same reasons that the muslims use in the mideast and around the world to burn our Flag, and Bibles?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:02:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dave_A:

Originally Posted By Diehard187:
Originally Posted By Dave_A:
Christianity is not a religion of a vengeful & hateful god who commands his followers to lash out at other religeons.

Now, God had plenty of wrath to dispense in the Old Testament, but that is nowhere to be found in the New. We see God's judgment played out on his own followers & those who pretend to follow for their own gain, but no 'striking down' of anyone who's not a Jew or Christian (or at least pretending to be such) in the NT...

There is no biblical basis for 'crusades' or 'forced conversion'... The example set by the apostles is one of reasoning with those of other faiths and convincing them to convert of their own free will, NOT of ransacking their towns, burning their stuff and forcing them to accept God or die... That's what the bad guys do - that's what Mohamed did... Not Christ.

There is also no Biblical basis for burning books of other religions with the intent of offending them - the only NT 'book-burning' is done by Christian converts, burning their OWN books as an expression of their abandoning their old ways (say, like an American who just became Christian burning his porn collection) - in fact, purposefully offending members of another religion by destroying copies of their holy book is about as un-Christian as it gets...

We're supposed to want them to find Christ, not antagonize them & confirm what their religeous leaders tell them about us...



Amen, brother, but the "vengeful God" part I disagree with.. " God is jealous, and the Lord avenges; The Lord avenges and is furious. The Lord will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;" (Nahum 1:2) and "Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord." (Romans 12:19)


Agreed, in that personal sense...

The point was that God left the wholesale destruction of civilizations, 'holy war', and such behind in the OT...

Malachi 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I do not change...

Ever read the book of Revelations? It speaks of wholesale destruction of the world.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:42:20 AM EDT
Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake: Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.

Matthew 5:38-39 You have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other:

In the words of moral theologian Pia de Solenni "He who is without sin can burn the first Quran."
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 2:28:51 AM EDT
My first questions would be:

- What good will this act produce?

- Willl this build relationships with non-Christians to open lines of communication so I can share the Gospel?
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 6:00:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2010 6:03:25 AM EDT by beready]
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
My first questions would be:

- What good will this act produce?

- Willl this build relationships with non-Christians to open lines of communication so I can share the Gospel?


My quess would be, it would show just how intollerant the muslims are, the acts of murder (children included) and destruction that would escalate). The restraint the Christians show world wide towards those who burn bibles is a demonstration of their tolerance and foregiveness. Its the differance between our God Jesus forgiveness, and their god allah vengance.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 12:42:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By beready:
Originally Posted By Brohawk:
My first questions would be:

- What good will this act produce?

- Willl this build relationships with non-Christians to open lines of communication so I can share the Gospel?


My quess would be, it would show just how intollerant the muslims are, the acts of murder (children included) and destruction that would escalate). The restraint the Christians show world wide towards those who burn bibles is a demonstration of their tolerance and foregiveness. Its the differance between our God Jesus forgiveness, and their god allah vengance.


Just don't mistake my tolerance for approval. That's the liberal view on tolerance.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 12:54:34 PM EDT
I saw a photo earlier today in the local paper of Iraqi police guarding a Protestant church in Baghdad. The police were stationed there to protect the church in case of a backlash. This preacher has placed the lives of thousands of Christians at risk just so he can drum up some publicity and make himself feel more important and relevant than he was a few weeks ago.

While we shouldn't alter what we do out of fear there is no reason to knowingly provoke violence from others.

He should know dang well that his actions will have no other result than to anger Muslim extremists and get people killed. This burning will not convert any Muslims, it will not "build bridges" and it will not produce anything good.
Link Posted: 9/10/2010 3:09:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tater22:
I saw a photo earlier today in the local paper of Iraqi police guarding a Protestant church in Baghdad. The police were stationed there to protect the church in case of a backlash. This preacher has placed the lives of thousands of Christians at risk just so he can drum up some publicity and make himself feel more important and relevant than he was a few weeks ago.

While we shouldn't alter what we do out of fear there is no reason to knowingly provoke violence from others.

He should know dang well that his actions will have no other result than to anger Muslim extremists and get people killed. This burning will not convert any Muslims, it will not "build bridges" and it will not produce anything good.


i was wondering if this is the same reason the muslim iman is using to create division and disunity in our country. "so he can drum up some publicity and make himself feel more important and relevant"
Where is the muslim imans compassion towards those familys of the murdered children, moms, dads, brothers, sisters, grandparents murdered in the name of allha at ground 0. I think iman money would be better spent educating muslims to not fly planes into our buildings or teaching childre to strap bombs on their back and killing people who disagree with their way of thinking. Who made muslims the moral autority to think they can dictated to the world how we should behave and if you do not agree we can blow you up.

Link Posted: 9/10/2010 4:19:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By beready:
Originally Posted By tater22:
I saw a photo earlier today in the local paper of Iraqi police guarding a Protestant church in Baghdad. The police were stationed there to protect the church in case of a backlash. This preacher has placed the lives of thousands of Christians at risk just so he can drum up some publicity and make himself feel more important and relevant than he was a few weeks ago.

While we shouldn't alter what we do out of fear there is no reason to knowingly provoke violence from others.

He should know dang well that his actions will have no other result than to anger Muslim extremists and get people killed. This burning will not convert any Muslims, it will not "build bridges" and it will not produce anything good.


i was wondering if this is the same reason the muslim iman is using to create division and disunity in our country. "so he can drum up some publicity and make himself feel more important and relevant"
Where is the muslim imans compassion towards those familys of the murdered children, moms, dads, brothers, sisters, grandparents murdered in the name of allha at ground 0. I think iman money would be better spent educating muslims to not fly planes into our buildings or teaching childre to strap bombs on their back and killing people who disagree with their way of thinking. Who made muslims the moral autority to think they can dictated to the world how we should behave and if you do not agree we can blow you up.



I responded to the original question. I think the whole New York mosque is shady and I have serious reservations about the developer's intent. But to try and justify the Florida pastors actions by diverting attention to the actions of another is irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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