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Posted: 3/23/2006 9:12:04 AM EDT
Anybody use or have knowledge of these for the street? Titanium?

www.upgrademotoring.com/wheels/lugnuts.htm

I want to change wheels on my car but the aftermarket wheels will add a few pounds unsprung weight. I figure if I switch to non runflat tires and lighter lug nuts I can stay close to stock unsprung weight, maybe even get a bit lighter.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:29:00 PM EDT
Not worth it. Aluminum nuts on steel studs means you will need to check these daily. These are highly stressed items, making them out of a less fatigue resistant material like aluminum is a gamble.

Aluminum used in airplane frames is generally under compressive stress with the skin as the tensile member. As such, the skin is easily inspected for fatigue cracking while the compressive loading of the frame does not fatigue except in shear which is easily designed to be a long fatigue life.

In lug nuts, the failure would be shear in the thread roots. You cannot visualize this failure until you lose a wheel.

The situation is compounded by the steel studs which being three times as stiff as the aluminum forces the load on the first three or so threads. The tolerances of the thread are such that the load plastically deforms the first three or so threads. After a few reuses, the nuts are gone.

If you never have to remove the nuts until you need to rotate the tires, you will probably have a corrosion problem, given the fact aluminum corrodes preferentially over steel. The nuts become locked to the studs unless you used an anti-seize grease. But the grease could cause torque problems...

They look to be very expensive. Much more so than the material costs. This might be due to the legal costs of such a product (like a ladder, most of the cost is due to people getting injured and suing the manufacturer).

Save your coin and buy lighter wheels. Skimping on lug nuts is bad economy.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:37:38 PM EDT
The weight savings isn't even close to worth it, IMHO. Unless you have several dozen lug nuts per wheel , it's a very small percentage savings when you take into account rotors/drums, wheel, etc.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:53:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 2:06:06 PM EDT by Eight]
Regardless of the theory that Keith_J is trying to state, I have used aluminum lug nuts for the last 7 years. I also worked at a car performance shop for 5 years. I installed suspensions, exhausts, turbos, wheels, etc. I have taken plenty of aluminum lug nuts off, whether to swap wheels or install suspension parts. I cannot say that I have never seen one fail. But, I have seen an equal number of factory, steel lugs (or whatever they are made of) fail. Most of the time, it's because the lug is on way too tight.

I do always use anti-seize, regardless of what the lugs are made of. Also, never had a problem with aluminum coming loose. As long as you torque them to spec, you'll be fine. I have been using the same set of Ray's aluminum lugs on my Volks for the past 2 years. Rotate every 5K miles.

Just my experience.

ETA: I used to auto-x, although not with my current car. The car I drove had aluminum lugs on it for the street (with aftermarket wheels). When I raced, I would switch back to the factory wheels, with factory lugs. The last year I raced, I probably switched wheels about 10 times. I rotated my street wheels, too. So the aluminum lugs went through a lot of on/off action. Never a problem. I would have used the aluminum lugs for racing, but they wouldn't fit my factory wheels.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:01:51 PM EDT
I don't think the weight savings would be worth it unless part of a whole car diet.

But if they aren't expensive and you want or need them then it certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

My dad always told me that 100 lbs was worth 1/10th of second in the 1/4 so you can see how little the weight savings or gain would affect the performance of the car. Now whether his teachings were correct I don't know it was just one of those things he taught me.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:09:16 PM EDT
I'll stick with my McGard tough nuts. I've been buying them 20+ years and never had a set peel or rust.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:13:39 PM EDT
Porche has used an aluminum alloy wheel fastener for many years. That being said I wouldn't spend exhorbitant amounts of money for the potential weight savings.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:16:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 7:16:57 PM EDT by Pthfndr]
You're going to spend $150 to save 6 ounces? Your Corvette(?), or you, wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Can I have some of that excess money you have?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:57:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
You're going to spend $150 to save 6 ounces? Your Corvette(?), or you, wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Can I have some of that excess money you have?



6 ounces per wheel of unsprung weight is a lot. It's about 10% of the weight I'd be gaining by going to aftermarket wheels plus I'll save several hundreds of dollars going with non runflat tires. I can sell the stock wheels for nearly what I'll pay for the aftermarket wheels so I'll actually come out ahead at my next tire replacement!

It's all in how you do the accounting.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:03:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
You're going to spend $150 to save 6 ounces? Your Corvette(?), or you, wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Can I have some of that excess money you have?



6 ounces per wheel of unsprung weight is a lot. It's about 10% of the weight I'd be gaining by going to aftermarket wheels plus I'll save several hundreds of dollars going with non runflat tires. I can sell the stock wheels for nearly what I'll pay for the aftermarket wheels so I'll actually come out ahead at my next tire replacement!

It's all in how you do the accounting.



Per their website it's .3 oz per lug nut over stock nuts. X 20 nuts is 6 oz TOTAL. Not per wheel.

If you had cross drilled rotors you'd save 10 times that in unsprung weight.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 4:16:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By Pthfndr:
You're going to spend $150 to save 6 ounces? Your Corvette(?), or you, wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Can I have some of that excess money you have?



6 ounces per wheel of unsprung weight is a lot. It's about 10% of the weight I'd be gaining by going to aftermarket wheels plus I'll save several hundreds of dollars going with non runflat tires. I can sell the stock wheels for nearly what I'll pay for the aftermarket wheels so I'll actually come out ahead at my next tire replacement!

It's all in how you do the accounting.



Per their website it's .3 oz per lug nut over stock nuts. X 20 nuts is 6 oz TOTAL. Not per wheel.

If you had cross drilled rotors you'd save 10 times that in unsprung weight.



Frome the website:

(the Rays lug nuts are 0.8 oz. each compared to 2.1 oz. for the stock pieces).


That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:19:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.



Can't find a lightweight wheel that you like? Heck, I was looking at aftermarket wheels to replace the stock 17" Aluminum wheels and found that I could easily find several lighter wheels even switching from a 17" to an 18" (Stock 17" about 17 lbs and 18s could be found that weighed less than 15 lb apiece.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:49:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 6:52:56 AM EDT by captainpooby]

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.



Can't find a lightweight wheel that you like? Heck, I was looking at aftermarket wheels to replace the stock 17" Aluminum wheels and found that I could easily find several lighter wheels even switching from a 17" to an 18" (Stock 17" about 17 lbs and 18s could be found that weighed less than 15 lb apiece.



The wheels I want will add about 5 or 6 pounds, factory corvette wheels are pretty light for OEM. Non runflats will offset most of that. If I want lighter wheels in the style I want it will cost way more than those lug nuts.

I cant find the exact weights of the tires or the wheels charted anywhere but those are the #s thrown about on the vette forum.

These are the wheels I want:

Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:51:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 6:52:10 AM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.



Can't find a lightweight wheel that you like? Heck, I was looking at aftermarket wheels to replace the stock 17" Aluminum wheels and found that I could easily find several lighter wheels even switching from a 17" to an 18" (Stock 17" about 17 lbs and 18s could be found that weighed less than 15 lb apiece.



The wheels I want will add about 5 or 6 pounds. Non runflats will cover most of that.

I cant find the exact weights of the tires or the wheels charted anywhere but those are the #s thrown about on the vette forum.



have you tried www.tirerack.com? They often have the weight of lightweight wheels (that they carry) listed and for tires that they carry, weights are listed in the 'specs' section, typically.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:54:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.



Can't find a lightweight wheel that you like? Heck, I was looking at aftermarket wheels to replace the stock 17" Aluminum wheels and found that I could easily find several lighter wheels even switching from a 17" to an 18" (Stock 17" about 17 lbs and 18s could be found that weighed less than 15 lb apiece.



The wheels I want will add about 5 or 6 pounds. Non runflats will cover most of that.

I cant find the exact weights of the tires or the wheels charted anywhere but those are the #s thrown about on the vette forum.



have you tried www.tirerack.com? They often have the weight of lightweight wheels (that they carry) listed and for tires that they carry, weights are listed in the 'specs' section, typically.



Been there done that. The specs on the tires dont list weight.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:25:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By captainpooby:

That's 1.3 oz per lug, 1.3x20=26 oz or 6.5 ozs per wheel.



Can't find a lightweight wheel that you like? Heck, I was looking at aftermarket wheels to replace the stock 17" Aluminum wheels and found that I could easily find several lighter wheels even switching from a 17" to an 18" (Stock 17" about 17 lbs and 18s could be found that weighed less than 15 lb apiece.



The wheels I want will add about 5 or 6 pounds. Non runflats will cover most of that.

I cant find the exact weights of the tires or the wheels charted anywhere but those are the #s thrown about on the vette forum.



have you tried www.tirerack.com? They often have the weight of lightweight wheels (that they carry) listed and for tires that they carry, weights are listed in the 'specs' section, typically.



Been there done that. The specs on the tires dont list weight.



what tires? size? are you sure?

They have tire weights for every tire I've looked at:

example
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:28:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 11:24:57 AM EDT by captainpooby]
How did I miss that? I swear, that wasnt there yesterday!

ETA: Cool, if I go with the Khumo ECSTA, I will drop 5# front, and 6# rear.

Now if I can find the wheel differences, I'll be set. Thanks all for your hep.

OK, I got all the info and by going to non runflats I'll be 1.5#s lighter on the back and 1.5#s heavier on the front. I can live with that, maybe.

Anybody know where I can get ten Ti lug nuts?

Stock tires 30#fr 35# rr.
Khumo 25#fr 29#rr.
less 5# 6#

If I go with a lower profile 245/40/17 on the front I can kill it at 23#s. I can go a little wider on the back too.

Stock wheels 17#fr 20#rr.
repros I want 23.5#fr 24.5#rr.
more 6.5# 4.5#
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