The photos are from KillBoy who lives near and makes a living photographing The Tail of the Dragon.

The reason the front tire isn't spinning in #2 is because his engine guard touched down and the front tire came off the pavement, NOT because he grabbed a handful of brake.

This is definitely a case of rider error, not an inherent issue with the bike design.  Different bikes for different purposes.  How many sportbike riders can take a 700-1000 mile day?  I can do this easily and still walk when I get off the bike.  Many cruiser riders simply got tired of the upper body pain from long days on rockets and decided that being a biker is soooo much more than going like a bat out of hell.  Yes, I can analyze a twisty road and aim for the perfect apex to take it at top speed, but that's just part of the fun.

Lastly, I know of many cruiser riders who are former road racers and will shame most squids on a twisty road, even astride a big cruiser.  Bottom line...it's not the bike, it's the rider.  Period.

Quoted: The photos are from KillBoy who lives near and makes a living photographing The Tail of the Dragon. The reason the front tire isn't spinning in #2 is because his engine guard touched down and the front tire came off the pavement, NOT because he grabbed a handful of brake. This is definitely a case of rider error, not an inherent issue with the bike design.  Different bikes for different purposes.  How many sportbike riders can take a 700-1000 mile day?  I can do this easily and still walk when I get off the bike.  Many cruiser riders simply got tired of the upper body pain from long days on rockets and decided that being a biker is soooo much more than going like a bat out of hell.  Yes, I can analyze a twisty road and aim for the perfect apex to take it at top speed, but that's just part of the fun. Lastly, I know of many cruiser riders who are former road racers and will shame most squids on a twisty road, even astride a big cruiser.  Bottom line...it's not the bike, it's the rider.  Period.

Oh good lord. I'm fully aware of why people say they ride cruisers. After having ridden many of both though, I'll have to say that while some sportbikes are pretty uncomfortable, I find most of the ones I've ridden to be _more_ comfortable than the cruisers I've ridden. I guess that's just a personal preference thing. But on to the real point. You just stated yourself that the reason the front wheel was in the air was because the engine guard drug the ground and lifted it into the air. If you will go back and read what I said above, you'll find that that is almost exactly what I stated myself (I called the engine guard "all that shit hanging off his bike" or something to that effect though). Now, how can you sit there and say that the design of that bike didn't have any effect on that accident? Once again, as I stated above, yes, rider error initiated the problem, but also as I stated above, I didn't start this thread in order to focus on that fact. What I wanted to point out, and have successfully done, regardless of the cries and whining of cruiser riders here, is that with all other things being equal, a sport bike offers more ground clearance. More ground clearance equates to more lean angle before dragging parts on the ground (like engine guards) that will cause the wheels to lift up in the air, causing a crash. Got it? If you can't understand that, it's because you don't want to. The "different bikes for different purposes" arguement is just completely irrelevent. That dude was on that road going at that speed while posing for a camera and made a small error because he wasn't paying attention. He obviously hit the brakes and tried to lean the bike over to turn it, but because he was on that HD cruiser he very quicky ran out of cornering clearance and crashed. Had he been on a bike with more clearance he would at least have had more of a chance to make the corner. - And since you just really want to talk about the rider, then regardless of what his skill level is, you'll notice that he _did_ attempt to lean the bike further than it could go considering it's lack of clearance. Yes, that was an error in judgement on his part, but it still doesn't change the FACT that if he had more ground clearance (as much as a modern sportbike), he could EASILY have continued to lean the bike further over and would have made it through the corner with no problems. What is so hard for you to understand in this statement? Hell, you just basically said it yourself before saying that it didn't have anything to do with it.

Like I said before, some of you guys just don't like admitting that a sportbike in that situation would have been better/safer. Note, that I'm NOT saying that you need to go out and get rid of your cruisers, or that you should like sportbikes more than cruisers. Nor am I saying that there aren't any sportbike racers who don't have and like cruisers. NONE of that has one damn thing to do with the statment that in the situation in the photograph, that dude could have used more ground clearance. Good GOD people! Do you just lack reading comprehension, or are you that damned DUMB?
- Several of you have typed "you're wrong", but I don't see _any_ of you explaining - in technical terms - your version of why you think I'm wrong. All you guys are doing is sitting there trying to change the subject and tell me how you and other people like cruisers... which has nothing to do with it. LIKE WHAT YOU WANT!!!! But don't try to bullshit anyone about the fact that they just aren't as able to corner as well as a sportbike. If they could, you'd see them on racetracks everywhere.

Damn... I already said I wasn't gonna keep repeating this shit just because some of you can't comprehend plain english. I guess it really doesn't matter what I say, 'cause you guys have your minds closed and made up. But that's typical of HD riders. You boys are just too damn good for yourselves so you can't be told anything. Dumbasses.

Anyone with a brain will have no problem understanding what I've said here, and I'm not about to go into the business of being a special-ed teacher for autistic cruiser riders... so that's good enough for me. Spout your bullshit all you want. I'm done with this thread.

Quoted: I suppose you could say I have a "chip" for harley though. They build antiquated crap product and run around telling the world how they are "the best". HA. What horseshit. The ford model-t just about makes them look old tech. hat,

Heres a site youll fit right in:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/main.asp?webtag=americanangst&nav=start&prettyurl=%2Famericanangst

Its a site of people like you that hate harley davidson.   Enjoy the hate.

Damn dude, you need to take your medication more regularly.

The topic of the thread is One reason sport bikes are safer than cruisers....

The point is that sport bikes are not safer than cruisers...period.  If the rider were operating within the limits of both his skill and his equipment he wouldn't have lost the bike...period.

To say one style of bike is "SAFER" than another simply because of ground clearance is simply assenine.  I could just as easily say that all cruisers are "SAFER" than sport bikes because they're more stable at slow speeds or that all bikes are "SAFER" than all cars because they're more maneuverable.  All of those statements are blatently false.

Oh, and before you say anything, I also own a Ninja (and don't ride a Harley) and have been riding sportbikes off and on for twenty years.  Believe me when I tell you, neither is safer than the other, particularly with a dumbass in the saddle.

'nuff said.

The fact that people ride a bike up to and past their limits doesn't make them equally unsafe.... By definition, a sportbike has higher limits than a different type of bike, ergo, it is safer as there is more "reserve" safety/performance than you would enjoy on a cruiser.

Like I said, a sportbike would do exactly the same thing that Mad Dog McDangleDick's Harley did, it would just be going 30mph faster doing it. Take that 30mph away and the sport bike would arc through that corner like it was any other day. That means the sport bike is safer.

It's called Rider Error.

Quoted: neither is safer than the other, particularly with a dumbass in the saddle.

Exactly.

I get to deal with morons from both groups here in So WI. Cant say which is worse, the idiots riding in traffic like they are in MotoGP or the bar hoppers. Either way the rest of us here in Janesville are f-ed on bikes due to the new COP being anti-bike (with the old COP it was just sportbikes. Now every bike is a target inthe new ones eyes.)


BTW nearly went down today. 15 mph turning on a side road and didnt see the small patch of sand. Front started to tuck and literally pushed the bike back verticle with my leg before getting traction again. Wouldnt had mattered if I was on a cruiser or sportbike, I MISSED seeing the danger since a car was stopped beyond the stop sign and I was paying mroe attention to it.

A sportbike has loads more capability than any cruiser in terms of performance.  

99.5% of all sportbike riders don't have the skill to use really even come close to using the bike's capabilities.  

In one sense, a sportbike will be more forgiving than any cruiser in the situation in the photos.  

He likely would not have crashed on a sportbike in the same corner, at the same speed, in the same conditions.  (Assuming he had enough skill).  

Having said that, I've seen the EXACT same crash by a friend on a "sportbike."  It was a 1992 ZX-11.  "Sporty" for sure, but it didn't have enough ground clearance to make the decreasing radius right-hander that our GSXRs and CBR900RRs did.  Three of us made it through no problem, but the ZX-11 touched down a peg, levered up its front end, and went down.  

A rider MAY be more likely to exceed the safe parameters of a "cruiser" than a sportbike, simply because the cruiser is so limited in terms of performance.  In that sense, then yes, a sportbike IS "safer" than a cruiser--given the same speed and conditions.  

But a sportbike CAN be pushed too far, especially with an unskilled rider or simply too much speed for the conditions.  Moreover, a sportbike rider might be more inclined to push the limits of his machine, making a crash more likley.  

I'd prefer to be on a sportbike in almost any condition, simply because the machine itself has a huge reserve of capabilities that might allow me to recover from either rider error or something unexpected happening (braking, cornering, and acceleration greatly exceed any cruiser with any sportbike made in the last ten years).  

If sport bikes were inherently safer, actuaries wouldnt peg their insurance premiums at the top of the scale.

More people crash and get killed on sport bikes and by your logic, they are inherently less safe because they go faster.

Not anymore.... It's not kids crashing on sportbikes anymore as much as it is re-entry riders or first time older riders are making claims.

Ohhhhhh. I think I'll go for a ride. On my HARLEY. I LOVE my HARLEY. I LOVE all HARLEY'S. I wouldn't own anything but a HARLEY. Except, maybe, a custom CHOPPER. I don't care what you ride, I hope you have a safe, and a great season.

Quoted: If sport bikes were inherently safer, actuaries wouldnt peg their insurance premiums at the top of the scale. More people crash and get killed on sport bikes and by your logic, they are inherently less safe because they go faster.

Premiums on them are high because of teh age group that buys them and the fact they are designed for RACING/PERFORMANCE. Same reason that a Accord has a lower rate than a Corvette.

Ironically most fatal bike accidents here are cruisers (no helmet req state here). Sportbike riders are more likely to WEAR GEAR and full face helmets than cruiser riders here.

Roadhog, wild guess, Ya got a Road King dont ya?

Oooh Snap!!!

Quoted: Quoted: If sport bikes were inherently safer, actuaries wouldnt peg their insurance premiums at the top of the scale. More people crash and get killed on sport bikes and by your logic, they are inherently less safe because they go faster. Premiums on them are high because of teh age group that buys them and the fact they are designed for RACING/PERFORMANCE. Same reason that a Accord has a lower rate than a Corvette. Ironically most fatal bike accidents here are cruisers (no helmet req state here). Sportbike riders are more likely to WEAR GEAR and full face helmets than cruiser riders here. Roadhog, wild guess, Ya got a Road King dont ya?

Nope. Never owned a cruiser and havent owned a bike in quite some time. The last bike I had was Muzzy kitted ZX11. The bike before that was a GSXR 750.

I was a bike mechanic for nearly twenty years and I've driven them all. Ever wheelie a Yamaha Venture? I have.

Rob940..... yup. 03 (100th ann.) Road King. black, lotsa chrome. 95 in, Andrews t-37 cams, just had the fins diamond cut. rode it to Daytona, and Sturgis last year. BTW, from what I saw of WI (I-90), it's a beautiful state. Had a great time riding S.Dakota and Wyoming.
Our local HOG group is very active, with several weekend trips, overnighters, monthly dinner rides, and monthly day trips. you'll not find a safer bunch of people to ride with. Several LEO in our group also.

Quoted: No chip for cruisers in general. I wouldn't put it that way. They just aren't engineered for maximum performance. That's all. Now, that doesn't mean that some cruisers aren't better than other cruisers. There are certainly many that stand head and shoulders above others in the performance and safety areas. I suppose you could say I have a "chip" for harley though. They build antiquated crap product and run around telling the world how they are "the best". HA. What horseshit. For instance, a friend of mine has a Honda VTX1800, and that thing is *light years* better than any HD product in every way (unless you're a harley guy who just isn't "cool" on a "rice burner"). It has power, reliability and much better ground clearance, etc. - But that's just one bike of many that make HD look like crap.

If you would have just titled the thread "HD Blows" I would have been with you from the start.

I ride a Yamaha Warrior so I can relate to being light years ahead of any HD product like your friend's VTX.  The Warrior and VTX are in the sport cruiser class so its not really fair to compare them to regular cruisers though.

If your friend wants the same speed but with 10 times better handleing, tell him to move up to a Warrior.

Quoted: Rob940..... yup. 03 (100th ann.) Road King. black, lotsa chrome. 95 in, Andrews t-37 cams, just had the fins diamond cut. rode it to Daytona, and Sturgis last year. BTW, from what I saw of WI (I-90), it's a beautiful state. Had a great time riding S.Dakota and Wyoming. Our local HOG group is very active, with several weekend trips, overnighters, monthly dinner rides, and monthly day trips. you'll not find a safer bunch of people to ride with. Several LEO in our group also.

Well then you went by my place within 4 miles if ya took I-90

I Ride with a HD club on occassion. They dont mind me and my YZF since I dont screw around on the bike during group rides. Usually go on the HD MDA rides when I can. Wont ride teh local HD one due to the number of rubs there and their crappy attitudes towards other bikes. Ironically I've put more miles on a HD than most of them have and I dont even onw a HD yet. The local dealer (Kutter) is a good place though. Sauk City HD's (nw of Madison) MDA ride the last time I went was about 4,000 bikes.

When I finally get my HD (either a FXSTB or FLHTC if I can swing that one), the chrome is gonna be powdercoated black. After having to clean and polish 8 HD's every month for 7 yrs....

Quoted: I was a bike mechanic for nearly twenty years and I've driven them all. Ever wheelie a Yamaha Venture? I have.

I have also. Had 2 of those bad boys. One 83 and one 85 model. LOVED those bikes with a passion. And if I could find another one I'd buy it in a heart beat. I just don't like the new ones all that much. Too much like hogs.

Back in the eighties when sport bikes started getting real "sporty" there was an accident study completed that showed your typical Harley rider was much more likely to be involved in a fatality acident rather then the sport bike rider.  I like sportbikes because they put you in a more aggresive riding position rather then a position that causes you to become too relaxed.

Quoted: Quoted: I was a bike mechanic for nearly twenty years and I've driven them all. Ever wheelie a Yamaha Venture? I have. I have also. Had 2 of those bad boys. One 83 and one 85 model. LOVED those bikes with a passion. And if I could find another one I'd buy it in a heart beat. I just don't like the new ones all that much. Too much like hogs.

V-Max with bags and a fairing.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I was a bike mechanic for nearly twenty years and I've driven them all. Ever wheelie a Yamaha Venture? I have. I have also. Had 2 of those bad boys. One 83 and one 85 model. LOVED those bikes with a passion. And if I could find another one I'd buy it in a heart beat. I just don't like the new ones all that much. Too much like hogs. V-Max with bags and a fairing.

Oh man yes they were. First time I got on my bike I had major wood by the time I got off. I'd traded my car for it because I was in danger of loosing my license and needed something less likely to get pulled over than an RX7.

Man that bike would just GO!

Damn it now I'm going to look for another one and sell my vulcan. DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!!