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Posted: 3/12/2006 5:15:29 PM EDT
I know a few years ago, they didn't impress too many people, but then didn't harley buy them and make an attempt to save them.

Where do they sit these days? They really look interesting, that sport bike with a big v-twin thing.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:16:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enigma2y0u:
I know a few years ago, they didn't impress too many people, but then didn't harley buy them and make an attempt to save them.

Where do they sit these days? They really look interesting, that sport bike with a big v-twin thing.


If it's any indication, they are sold at some HD dealers. I know a kid in high school that was going to buy one.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:29:43 PM EDT
Having owned a 2000 S3T I would not recommend a tube framed Buell to anyone, it was one thing after the next. The new generation are quite clever and good looking machines. I have heard reliability is excellent after they replaced that little belt problem. That being said its no BMW
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:37:26 PM EDT
My boss is selling his mid 90's thunderbolt for $2500, it's very tempting even though it has 40k on it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:21:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Eli75:
My boss is selling his mid 90's thunderbolt for $2500, it's very tempting even though it has 40k on it.



I see in your futere..............rockerbox gaskets............................voltage regulators............................................and broken exhaust mount crap.............................


For $2500 I might give her a spin it was a fun bike to ride between unregularly scheduled maintance.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:57:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 2:16:50 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
They didn't fair too well at the Daytona 200 this last weekend.

BTW, the 37, by Jeremy McWilliams Buell below means it only made 37 laps of the 68 which make-up the race......, and his did the best.


Mike

ps - Results:

65th Daytona 200 By Honda Results
March 11, 2006
1. Jake Zemke, Honda, 68 laps.
2. Josh Hayes, Honda, 68.
3. Jason DiSalvo, Yamaha, 68.
4. Eric Bostrom, Yamaha 68.
5. Miguel Duhamel, Honda, 68.
6. Aaron Gobert, Honda, 67.
7. Geoff May, Suzuki, 67.
8. Eric Wood, Honda, 66.
9. Blake Young, Suzuki, 66.
10. Will Gruy, Yamaha, 65.
11. Ryan Elleby, Honda, 65.
12. Tony Meiring, Suzuki, 65.
13. Mark Crozier, Suzuki, 65.
14. Ricky Orlando, Kawasaki, 65.
15. Rob Frost, Kawasaki, 64.
16. Brian Stokes, Yamaha, 64.
17. Victor Chirinos, Kawasaki, 64.
18. Oliver Jervis, Kawasaki, 64.
19. Robert Fisher, Suzuki, 64.
20. Bostjan Pintar, Yamaha, 64.
21. Johnny Rock Page, Yamaha, 64.
22. Bostjan, Skuic, Honda, 64.
23. Opie Caylor, Suzuki, 64.
24. James Kerker, Honda, 64.
25. Dan Ortega, Suzuki, 63
26. John A. Ashmead, Kawasaki, 63.
27. Dirk Sanchez, Kawasaki, 63.
28. Marco Martinez, Yamaha, 63.
29. Joseph Ford, Yamaha, 63.
30. Mark McCormick, Yamaha, 63.
31. Jeremiah J. Johnson, Suzuki, 63.
32. David McPherson, Yamaha, 63.
33. Akiharu Shigeno, Kawasaki, 63.
34. Raymond Bowman, Suzuki, 63.
35. David Sadowski, Jr., Yamaha, 63.
36. John Caleb Linder, Yamaha, 62.
37. Jeffrey Purk, Yamaha, 62
38. Armonda Ferrer, Kawasaki, 62
39. Santiago Villa Venegas, Yamaha, 62.
40. Rick Shaw, Yamaha, 61.
41. Brett Champagne, Suzuki, 61.
42. Spencer Stuart, Yamaha, 61.
43. Lance Yeager, Kawasaki, 59.
44. Dejan Senk, Honda, 58.
45. Ray Gordon, Ducati, 55.
46. Morgan Murphy, Suzuki, 55.
47. Scotty Van Scoik, Kawasaki, 55.
48. Anthony Fania, Yamaha, 50.
49. Danny Eslick, Suzuki, 49.
50. Tyler McDonald, Yamaha, 47.
51. Bill Card, Yamaha, 43.
52. Jeremy McWilliams, Buell, 37.
53. Josh Day, Yamaha, 36.
54. Rico Penzkofer, Buell, 25.
55. Ty Howard, Honda, 21.
56. Trey Yonce, Yamaha, 19.
57. Keith Marshall, Suzuki, 15.
58. Steve Crevier, Buell, 14.
59. Justin Filice, Honda, 7.
60. Barrett Long, Yamaha 7.
61. Alastair Seeley, Yamaha 6.
62. Jean Paul Tache, Kawasaki, 6.
63. Nathan Hester, Yamaha, 2.
64. Mike Ciccotto, Buell, 2.p

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:06:11 AM EDT
Buell was bought by Harley a couple years back.
Neat, well engineered bikes
Not well built though.
Everyone I know that has owned a Buell has been stranded somewhere.
Maybe it's gotten better, but I dunno
the older ones are definately lemons.
big twins in sport bikes rock though.
Wheelie machines.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:28:33 AM EDT
Buell is one of those bikes I had hoped would turn into "the" american sportbike. Unfortunately, they use Harley motors (and are now owned by them), which means that they are hunks of shit and will always be hunks of shit. Unless hawgly suckison ever decides to build a truly modern motor, that is. That junk they tried to run this weekend at the daytona 200 certainly isn't modern in any real sense. I mean, in order to run in that race they had to talk the AMA into letting them run a 1327cc twin against all the other companies 600cc inline 4 cylinder bikes. - And what happened? Well, even with Jeremy McWilliams ( who is an ex GP rider ) on one, they got their ass handed to them on a silver platter. I think he qualified something like 10th (ish) where the other riders on those were much further back. At any rate, not a single one of those heaps of shit finished the race.

Oh yeah... And to top that off, there's serious question about the legality of even allowing that bike to run in that class at all. If they hadn't all broken down, they would have been protested. The reality is that those bikes have very little in common with the bikes a customer can buy off the show room floor regardless of any statements to the contrary on tv. And if those are "better" than the ones a customer can get... well lord help the poor customer. He's gonna be doing a lot of pushing when (not if) it breaks down.

It's pretty sad really. They built a bike that's got more than twice the displacement of any of the other bikes in the class and they _still_ can't win. Hell, they can't even keep the damn things running. What a joke.

Harley/Buell need to go back to doing what they do best: selling t-shirts and "image" to RUBs.

If you want a sportbike, get any of the inline 4 cylinder ones (honda, suzuki, yamaha, kawasaki). They're fast as hell and dependable too. If you just have to have a 2 cylinder engine though, buy a Ducati. At least you'll pretty much get what you pay for with their bikes. - If you don't care how many cylinders your bike has, but you want something "different", you might consider one of the new Triumph 675cc 3 cylinder bikes. All of the initial tests show them as really being good bikes and they make about the same amount of power as the inline 4 cylinder 600's. Nice looking bikes too! Take a look: www.triumph675.net/ From the link, click on the bike image to get to the rest of the site. Nice.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:36:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 7:37:38 AM EDT by m-dc]

Originally Posted By timb3:
Buell is one of those bikes I had hoped would turn into "the" american sportbike. Unfortunately, they use Harley motors (and are now owned by them), which means that they are hunks of shit and will always be hunks of shit. Unless hawgly suckison ever decides to build a truly modern motor, that is. That junk they tried to run this weekend at the daytona 200 certainly isn't modern in any real sense. I mean, in order to run in that race they had to talk the AMA into letting them run a 1327cc twin against all the other companies 600cc inline 4 cylinder bikes. - And what happened? Well, even with Jeremy McWilliams ( who is an ex GP rider ) on one, they got their ass handed to them on a silver platter. I think he qualified something like 10th (ish) where the other riders on those were much further back. At any rate, not a single one of those heaps of shit finished the race.

Oh yeah... And to top that off, there's serious question about the legality of even allowing that bike to run in that class at all. If they hadn't all broken down, they would have been protested. The reality is that those bikes have very little in common with the bikes a customer can buy off the show room floor regardless of any statements to the contrary on tv. And if those are "better" than the ones a customer can get... well lord help the poor customer. He's gonna be doing a lot of pushing when (not if) it breaks down.

It's pretty sad really. They built a bike that's got more than twice the displacement of any of the other bikes in the class and they _still_ can't win. Hell, they can't even keep the damn things running. What a joke.

Harley/Buell need to go back to doing what they do best: selling t-shirts and "image" to RUBs.

If you want a sportbike, get any of the inline 4 cylinder ones (honda, suzuki, yamaha, kawasaki). They're fast as hell and dependable too. If you just have to have a 2 cylinder engine though, buy a Ducati. At least you'll pretty much get what you pay for with their bikes. - If you don't care how many cylinders your bike has, but you want something "different", you might consider one of the new Triumph 675cc 3 cylinder bikes. All of the initial tests show them as really being good bikes and they make about the same amount of power as the inline 4 cylinder 600's. Nice looking bikes too! Take a look: www.triumph675.net/ From the link, click on the bike image to get to the rest of the site. Nice.



Even though I am no fan of the tube frame Buells I find tons of holes in that theory. For what its worth no Buell has ever left Wisconson with a "big twin" they have always had a sportster based motor. The new ones have a high bread based version of that powerplant but in reality they share very few traits.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:52:05 AM EDT by timb3]
Are you talking about the engine in the XB-RR race bike? I don't know what you mean by "theory". It's all well documented. Go out and buy the March 2006 issue of Roadracing World. There's a big article on it.

Well, okay, I'm sorry. I was wrong. The engine isn't 1327cc's. The buell website claims it's 1340cc's. Still a peice of junk though.

Here's Buell's own site:
www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/xbrr.asp

1340cc's and still whipped by 600cc bikes. Pretty sad. I mean, Ducati produces 1000cc twins that make roughly the power of a 750cc inline four... so it's obviously possible to do MUCH better than hawgly suckison is doing... even sticking with twins.

Edited to add another URL so you don't have to watch the dumb intro section on the buell website. This one takes you to the main XBRR page: www.buell.com/en_us/mania/racing/xbrr2.asp
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:52:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:53:40 AM EDT by in_burrito]
Harley bashing and biased bullshit aside....


The new Buells are quite fun to ride. Yes, a good rider on a 600cc jap bike will still beat you in a straight line, but the Buells aren't drag bikes. They handle extremely well and extremely tight and generate alot of low end torque and hp. You ride them completely differently than you would a 600cc jap bike.

Despite what our ignorant friend posted above, the Buells are commercialy available for road riding in two engine sizes, a 60 cubic inch (983 cc) and a 74 cubic inch(1212cc). Neither are as speedy as jap bikes of similar displacement.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:22:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:41:45 AM EDT by Cheesebeast]
I have a 2003 XB9R and it is a quality bike. It is a bit odd, though. The fuel tank is in the frame, the oil is carried in the swingarm, etc.

It is not as fast as an inline watercooled 4 cylinder Jap bike, but that doesn't matter to me.

One thing to watch out for is the suspension is fully adjustable, and you should take this into account as the machine is sensitive to setup. You dial it in for your weight and riding style and you will be pleased. The stock Dunlop D207s are crap, but mine wears Pirelli Scorpions (big improvement).

On the upside you don't have to adjust the valves on it and you don't have to mess with chains. It is belt driven.

Buell's reputation was ruined by the earlier tube frame bikes. The XB line is quite good- but don't take my word for it. The upside is the XBs don't have a very good resale value, so deals can be had. Try one out for yourself. Don't be surprised if you like it.



Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:32:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:30:45 AM EDT by timb3]
edited to delete a completely useless rant. I think I misunderstood something in_burrito said. Sorry.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:42:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:29:35 AM EDT by timb3]
Here's a link to Roadracing World magazine's website. Their latest issue has a full write up on the XBRR.
www.roadracingworld.com/

The current issue is pictured on the right hand side. You can get it at most book stores.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:46:20 AM EDT
For those interested in Buells the site that has been the most helpful to me is:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com

Harley is a mixed blessing for Buell, as most owners will attest. Many Harley dealerships have no interest in selling Buells. There are certain Harley dealerships that are known to have a good "Buell department" in them, so you may have to travel a ways. On the upside Harley's deep pockets have helped Buell get their quality in check, put out a completely new product line (XB series) while keeping their prices reasonable.



Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:28:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:33:24 AM EDT by timb3]
In_burrito... sorry. I think I misunderstood you in one of your posts above, so I deleted that useless rant. I'll definiely say though, that Buell would have a great bike if they'd go with say, a ducati desmosedici type motor (like in the 996/999). Or if they went with an inline 4. The thing that really gets me wound up about harley is that they refuse to develop a really modern motor that can compete with modern bikes of the same displacement. The VR1000 was an attempt, but they gave up on it. It's pretty hard for me to respect them when they seem more interested in selling "biker image" than in making a compettitive engine.

Man, I need to get back to work and come back to this thread later when I can pay more attention to what's being said by whom.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:25:58 PM EDT
buells are a good bike, they have good speed but arer all torque, they pull real hard to 60 mph and then start losing some umph!

i test drove the new 2005 firebolt XB12 the biggest fasest one they have and i am still in the air whether i want a Buell firebolt or a a 2006 YAMI R6

buells i have found are reliable, and def attract atention, however for the kind of riding i do fast 100+ mph corners and everything the buells gets allittle twitchy and feels weird at high speeds not to mention the best i could get on a buell was 130mph most of the itme i am in a corner at about that so im thinking maybe i will buy aused buell for my longer cruise type rides

just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 12:47:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3:
The thing that really gets me wound up about harley is that they refuse to develop a really modern motor that can compete with modern bikes of the same displacement. The VR1000 was an attempt, but they gave up on it. It's pretty hard for me to respect them when they seem more interested in selling "biker image" than in making a compettitive engine.


Harley is now a publicly traded company. You have to understand the dynamic of such an animal and the motivations of the board of directors to have an idea why they do the things they do. As far as a BoD member is concerned, Harley is in business to make money in the stock market and nothing else.

As to why they don't get into the go-faster market, I don't really think they need to. What they're doing is working right now, their forrays into other markets (V-rod, Buell) haven't been financially very successful, and HD as a company and HD riders as a market are very much into tradition.

There's nothing wrong with marketing image. Tango Down, Blackhawk Industries, Bushmaster, etc. are all marketing image if you really think about it. It just so happens that the image for HD and their owners isn't performance based. That's why there are different companies and different styles of bikes. I owned a Harley for 3 years. My next bike will likely be a crotch rocket. I just enjoy riding, and riding different bikes for different reasons.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 2:04:37 PM EDT
Stick some sort of water cooled power plant into that inovative Buell frame and you could have a serious winner. I have toured their production facitity and these folks are passionate about what they do. I guess its like kids at recess that want to play rugby but the teachers are keeping the limited to two hand touch.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:00:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By in_burrito:

Originally Posted By timb3:
The thing that really gets me wound up about harley is that they refuse to develop a really modern motor that can compete with modern bikes of the same displacement. The VR1000 was an attempt, but they gave up on it. It's pretty hard for me to respect them when they seem more interested in selling "biker image" than in making a compettitive engine.


Harley is now a publicly traded company. You have to understand the dynamic of such an animal and the motivations of the board of directors to have an idea why they do the things they do. As far as a BoD member is concerned, Harley is in business to make money in the stock market and nothing else.

As to why they don't get into the go-faster market, I don't really think they need to. What they're doing is working right now, their forrays into other markets (V-rod, Buell) haven't been financially very successful, and HD as a company and HD riders as a market are very much into tradition.

There's nothing wrong with marketing image. Tango Down, Blackhawk Industries, Bushmaster, etc. are all marketing image if you really think about it. It just so happens that the image for HD and their owners isn't performance based. That's why there are different companies and different styles of bikes. I owned a Harley for 3 years. My next bike will likely be a crotch rocket. I just enjoy riding, and riding different bikes for different reasons.



Well, I think I'm pretty much right with ya on all of that. I just think it really sucks for Buell though, 'cause as others have said, that bike would have loads of potential if it had the right motor in it (water cooled inline 16 valve 4 cylinder or at very least something along the lines of the ducati 996/999 twins). Like you said though, they'd have to convince the bean counters / stock holders to let them properly develop one... and since those sort of people usually are only interested in making this months or this quarters numbers "look good", it'll probably never happen. It's just so sad though. I mean look at what Ducati and Triumph (675 Daytona tripple) have been able to do. They both have been able to produce very successful - and fast - bikes. If harley is ever gonna do it right, they're gonna have to get leadership who can _effectively_ present the need to branch out to the money people. If they're not gonna do that though, they should just forget it and stick with making cruisers. They obviously do well making money with that. Well, that and t-shirts. The best thing that could happen to Buell would be if they could separate from harley and find a real engine provider. Hell, maybe they could get together with the Motoczysz people or something. That would be cool. If you haven't heard of that american bike company, check them out at: www.motoczysz.com/
I'd love to see a really compettitive american sportbike. It's waaay past time that someone should make one.

As for different type bikes... cruisers, etc... I just can't get into cruisers. Too laid back for me. I've always liked dirt bikes and sport bikes. Hell, when I first started riding they really didn't have sportbikes. Custom "cafe racers", but no sportbikes. I just rode dirtbikes from '72 till '78 when I got my bike license, at which point I rode both dirt bikes (motocross and harescrambles racing and trail riding) and dual purpose bikes 'till about '85 when I got one of the early sportbikes. Since then I've continued to do some dirt riding as well as street/track riding and occational roadracing. I just like to go fast and push myself to get better/faster all the time... so to me riding a cruiser is equivalent to driving around in a convertible car or something. Nice, but not what I'm into.

If you get a sport bike make sure to go to riding school. They're fun bikes, but you need to really know what you're doing to get anywhere near their potential with any degree of safety. Not saying you don't know how to ride. Not at all. But a large portion of people who ride cruisers seem to have very little real knowledge about proper steering and braking techniques. And that gets a lot of them hurt/killed. Especially when they switch to a sportbike and start trying to go fast.
There are lots of good riding schools though. A google search will bring up loads of them. Anyhow, I hope you decide to get one. They're fun bikes.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:10:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3:
If you haven't heard of that american bike company, check them out at: www.motoczysz.com/
I'd love to see a really compettitive american sportbike. It's waaay past time that someone should make one.



Seen it. Didnt care much for a 650cc Vtwin that is gonna cost as much as a 1000cc sportbike. IF it would had stayed with teh original idea of a 1000cc Vtwin, maybe it would be worth paying the $12K for one.

m-dc, its not that far off. More than likely teh Vrod water cooling will trickle down to the buells.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:41:25 AM EDT
Buell just can't be compared to the other sportbike makers. Not even in the same ball park, though the XB series are said to handle well if you can get through setting them up without any troubles. These bikes are meant for different people than you and I. To a person who has ever ridden a proper sport bike, the Biggest, Baddest Buell will feel like it doesn't have enough power to pull the skim off of warm milk.... But to a "Harley" guy or a non-rider they are a revelation.

I've ridden a few Buells and thought they were fun for town riding. You can make up a lot of a horsepower deficit with short gearing and a power curve that's biased for mid-range horsepower. Still, Buells are a bike that most owners will outgrow before their time is up.

Dave
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:53:34 PM EDT
TheOtherDave - I think that's about as well said as I've ever heard it. Good assessment.

Rob940 - I agree completely about wishing he hadn't changed to the 650. Really though, I was just trying to make a point by pointing out that there are other options Buell could take if they weren't owned by harley. I mean, until they could develop or get with someone who will develop a new modern motorcycle engine in america, they could at least become something like Bimota. You know. Buy other companies engines to put in their chassis. I mean, it might be cool if they could work a deal with someone like Triumph or Ducati, etc. Just something modern and powerful.

- About the V-rod... Unless a lot more development work gets done on that motor, I don't think it'll help buell too much. I mean HD couldn't even win on that bike with Miguel Duhamel riding it when it was still new. The best it ever placed was 3rd and that was only once. When Scott Russell rode it a couple of years later, it never even got on the podium... and he's a world superbike champion. I think the bottom line is that as was mentioned above, unless and until HD can talk their money people into giving them the green light to really pour some serious long term cash into R&D, they just might as well pack it up and go home. I'm not just bashing harley by saying that either. I really would love to see a real american sportbike that could compete. HD brings ridicule on itself though, by selling the image that they are the "greatest motorcycles in the world". If they didn't run around acting like their stuff didn't stink, I and probably a lot of others wouldn't be so happy to rag on them when they fail. Anyhow, I really hate it for Buell, cause I'd love to see what they could to with a good motor. I'd imagine they'd do quite well.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:07:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:
They didn't fair too well at the Daytona 200 this last weekend.

BTW, the 37, by Jeremy McWilliams Buell below means it only made 37 laps of the 68 which make-up the race......, and his did the best.


Mike

ps - Results:

65th Daytona 200 By Honda Results
March 11, 2006
1. Jake Zemke, Honda, 68 laps.
2. Josh Hayes, Honda, 68.
3. Jason DiSalvo, Yamaha, 68.
4. Eric Bostrom, Yamaha 68.
5. Miguel Duhamel, Honda, 68.
6. Aaron Gobert, Honda, 67.
7. Geoff May, Suzuki, 67.
8. Eric Wood, Honda, 66.
9. Blake Young, Suzuki, 66.
10. Will Gruy, Yamaha, 65.
11. Ryan Elleby, Honda, 65.
12. Tony Meiring, Suzuki, 65.
13. Mark Crozier, Suzuki, 65.
14. Ricky Orlando, Kawasaki, 65.
15. Rob Frost, Kawasaki, 64.
16. Brian Stokes, Yamaha, 64.
17. Victor Chirinos, Kawasaki, 64.
18. Oliver Jervis, Kawasaki, 64.
19. Robert Fisher, Suzuki, 64.
20. Bostjan Pintar, Yamaha, 64.
21. Johnny Rock Page, Yamaha, 64.
22. Bostjan, Skuic, Honda, 64.
23. Opie Caylor, Suzuki, 64.
24. James Kerker, Honda, 64.
25. Dan Ortega, Suzuki, 63
26. John A. Ashmead, Kawasaki, 63.
27. Dirk Sanchez, Kawasaki, 63.
28. Marco Martinez, Yamaha, 63.
29. Joseph Ford, Yamaha, 63.
30. Mark McCormick, Yamaha, 63.
31. Jeremiah J. Johnson, Suzuki, 63.
32. David McPherson, Yamaha, 63.
33. Akiharu Shigeno, Kawasaki, 63.
34. Raymond Bowman, Suzuki, 63.
35. David Sadowski, Jr., Yamaha, 63.
36. John Caleb Linder, Yamaha, 62.
37. Jeffrey Purk, Yamaha, 62
38. Armonda Ferrer, Kawasaki, 62
39. Santiago Villa Venegas, Yamaha, 62.
40. Rick Shaw, Yamaha, 61.
41. Brett Champagne, Suzuki, 61.
42. Spencer Stuart, Yamaha, 61.
43. Lance Yeager, Kawasaki, 59.
44. Dejan Senk, Honda, 58.
45. Ray Gordon, Ducati, 55.
46. Morgan Murphy, Suzuki, 55.
47. Scotty Van Scoik, Kawasaki, 55.
48. Anthony Fania, Yamaha, 50.
49. Danny Eslick, Suzuki, 49.
50. Tyler McDonald, Yamaha, 47.
51. Bill Card, Yamaha, 43.
52. Jeremy McWilliams, Buell, 37.
53. Josh Day, Yamaha, 36.
54. Rico Penzkofer, Buell, 25.
55. Ty Howard, Honda, 21.
56. Trey Yonce, Yamaha, 19.
57. Keith Marshall, Suzuki, 15.
58. Steve Crevier, Buell, 14.
59. Justin Filice, Honda, 7.
60. Barrett Long, Yamaha 7.
61. Alastair Seeley, Yamaha 6.
62. Jean Paul Tache, Kawasaki, 6.
63. Nathan Hester, Yamaha, 2.
64. Mike Ciccotto, Buell, 2.p




Wait till the end of the year. I used to race with the 64th place guy, Mike Cicotto, and there is also Mike "Barney" Barnes that put a hole in his knee during practice this year. The Buells will be winning by years end.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:39:03 AM EDT
As a former Bimota owner, NOTHING would make me happier (or poorer) than for Buell to follow in their footsteps. The thing of it is that Buell doesn't have to buy other people's engines... H.D. has a HEEEUUGE R&D center that could do any work they needed-if the push to do so was there. Alot of people poo-poo the limited success of the VR1000, but you have to know how it came about to understand that it was handicapped from the start. The motor was not an official HD project until it looked like it was going somewhere-then the company put their arms around the engineers involved for the Kodak moment and had other people do the development work on it. I've seen it race, both when it was new and competitive, and when it had an uncompetitive rider (Russel) on it. Being a world champion means nothing when your heart's not in what you are doing.

If Harley were smart, they would further separate H.D. and Buell as distinct entities and let them go their own ways. Buell could be so much if they wanted to be. Obviously, Eric Buell is proud of his bikes and has to make the best he can of the realities he faces in producing motorcycles. I just keep hearing him say in ads and interviews that he's making "his" idea of a great motorcycle.... The problem is that my and most other rider's idea of a great motorcycle isn't the same as his. The Buell I would open my wallet for would be an XB series bike with a Triumph 675 3 cylinder engine in it...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:02:30 PM EDT
If you're seriously considering buying a Buell, you owe it to yourself to go ride a couple alternative bikes.

The bikes I would recommend are:

Suzuki SV650/SV650s.

Suzuki SV1000.

Honda superhawk.

Are all twins that will thoroughly embarrass a buell for less money. The SV650 regularly stomps the 1200cc buell on the track, and the liter-twins will outperform a 600cc supersport and even run with a 750.

Triumph 675 is a sweet bike.

Ducati monster, or any Ducati that grabs your attention. (Ducatis are expensive to maintain, but then so is the Buell)

I like twin-sports, they really are a great package for a street bike, they won't keep up with an inline of the same displacement on the track but on the street the powerband is more useable. Case in point, a stock R1 can't reach it's HP peak without exceeding the speed limit pretty much anywhere in the US...in first gear. At street speeds even a little twin is way more fun to ride.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:23:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Wait till the end of the year. I used to race with the 64th place guy, Mike Cicotto, and there is also Mike "Barney" Barnes that put a hole in his knee during practice this year. The Buells will be winning by years end.



Hehh... well, I hope you don't mind the tast of feathers in your mouth. From eating crow at the end of the year, that is. That bike couldn't win with Mat Mladin riding it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:36:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
As a former Bimota owner, NOTHING would make me happier (or poorer) than for Buell to follow in their footsteps. The thing of it is that Buell doesn't have to buy other people's engines... H.D. has a HEEEUUGE R&D center that could do any work they needed-if the push to do so was there. Alot of people poo-poo the limited success of the VR1000, but you have to know how it came about to understand that it was handicapped from the start. The motor was not an official HD project until it looked like it was going somewhere-then the company put their arms around the engineers involved for the Kodak moment and had other people do the development work on it. I've seen it race, both when it was new and competitive, and when it had an uncompetitive rider (Russel) on it. Being a world champion means nothing when your heart's not in what you are doing.

If Harley were smart, they would further separate H.D. and Buell as distinct entities and let them go their own ways. Buell could be so much if they wanted to be. Obviously, Eric Buell is proud of his bikes and has to make the best he can of the realities he faces in producing motorcycles. I just keep hearing him say in ads and interviews that he's making "his" idea of a great motorcycle.... The problem is that my and most other rider's idea of a great motorcycle isn't the same as his. The Buell I would open my wallet for would be an XB series bike with a Triumph 675 3 cylinder engine in it...



Me too!!! That is specifically what I had in mind. That 675 in a Buell chassis would be super cool and would actually have a chance of winning races. I'll bet it would be great fun to ride.

About Russell... well, okay. I can't really argue with you there. He was a truely great rider in his prime... I mean really great. He was one of the smoothest riders I ever saw. Remember how he always did well in rain races as well as the dry ones? That is definiely the mark of someone who knows how to ride better than most. - But, by the time he rode for harley he really did seem to have lost a lot of his will to win for whatever reason. That was a sad thing, 'cause watching him in his prime was definitely part of what got me to start racing and doing track days, etc.

As a side note, somewhere around here I still have some pix I took of both Miguel on the HD and Scott on the Kawasaki at Road Atlanta in 1994. Man, Russell still had it then. Not only did he win that race, but the next riders were over half a lap behind him.
I'll post a couple of them later if I can find them...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:24:23 PM EDT
Pix from the 1994 AMA national at Road Atlanta (sorry about the terrible quality):

Scott Russell on his way to victory on the Kawasaki ZX7R (he was racing world superbike that year, but was in town and so did the ama race at atlanta).





Miguel Duhamel on the Harley VR1000... getting stomped by Russell and others :

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:48:01 AM EDT
I wish HD would had built the VR1000 for US use and sold it for maybe $14K max. I would had no problem writing that cheque. Loved the old school look of the VR1000. Seen one in street trim in Milwaukee one day on the interstate neat teh HD factory.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:03:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By timb3:

Originally Posted By shootemup:
Wait till the end of the year. I used to race with the 64th place guy, Mike Cicotto, and there is also Mike "Barney" Barnes that put a hole in his knee during practice this year. The Buells will be winning by years end.



Hehh... well, I hope you don't mind the tast of feathers in your mouth. From eating crow at the end of the year, that is. That bike couldn't win with Mat Mladin riding it.



Please elaborate? Honda has Gobert and Hayes riding.. Neither has won a title, If I can remember.

McWilliams on the Bull, raced MotoGP and WSB. The Buell will be a competitive bike by the end of the year, if it isn't deemed illeagal by the AMA.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 3:49:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rob940:
I wish HD would had built the VR1000 for US use and sold it for maybe $14K max. I would had no problem writing that cheque. Loved the old school look of the VR1000. Seen one in street trim in Milwaukee one day on the interstate neat teh HD factory.



I'd write a $14k check today for a VR1000, even if it were unchanged from when they stopped developing it. It was an open secret that HD had the best handling bike in the paddock at the time, development was more like what a GP bike would have had lavished on it.... As usual, a few rules were 'bent' to help see Harley into the fray.

Yeah, I could get wood over a 160hp bike that was built like a proper racer (i.e. GSXR). I don't understand why Suzuki keeps pushing the TL motor in dumbed down bikes like the SV1000S.... The TL1000R sold pretty well, or at least it did in Detroit-which is pretty impressive since they never really updated it once it was released. Stock, it's no slouch but it makes a stunning street ride with the gearing lowered a tooth or two...
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:30:09 AM EDT
For 14k I'd buy a VR1000 too, as a street bike. I'm sure it would be a blast to ride, and that price would be compettitive with the ducs. I don't remember for sure, but it seems like I remember reading somewhere that in order to get by the homologation rules they "technically" made it available for sale in germany or somewhere at the time they were racing it. I think 50 units? But I wonder if they actually ever sold any? I think I remember hearing that they had a price of like 50k on them or something like that.

Shootemup - You're right that McWilliams is a very very good rider. I certainly won't argue with that. I used to love watching him on the old 2-smoke gp bikes. Man, he was wild. But as good as he is, I just don't think anyone in this world is good enough to make that bike win. Unless AMA further bends/breaks their own rules in order to make it happen, that is. But as you said, I'm sure the bike would be protested (probably will anyway). We'll see how it all develops. Lets just say I'll be very surprised if it wins any races. I think McWilliams will be hard pressed to even get it on the podium. Crevier and the others riding it will be backmarkers for sure. I do believe that McWilliams can keep it in the top ten... as long as nothing vibrates off of it half way through the races.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:56:24 AM EDT
It was Poland that they were Homologated through.... You'd laugh if you've ever seen pics of the "streetbike"... Like, literally, a racebike with some JC Whitney round head and tail lights hung off of it. At least an R7 looks like they may have possibly thought a guy might turn a wheel on the street with one in it's lifetime.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:23:28 AM EDT
HA! Somehow that doesn't surprise me at all. I wonder if there are any pix of it on the web somewhere?
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 8:10:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By K2QB3:
If you're seriously considering buying a Buell, you owe it to yourself to go ride a couple alternative bikes.

The bikes I would recommend are:

Suzuki SV650/SV650s.

Suzuki SV1000.

Honda superhawk.

Are all twins that will thoroughly embarrass a buell for less money. The SV650 regularly stomps the 1200cc buell on the track, and the liter-twins will outperform a 600cc supersport and even run with a 750.

Triumph 675 is a sweet bike.

Ducati monster, or any Ducati that grabs your attention. (Ducatis are expensive to maintain, but then so is the Buell)

I like twin-sports, they really are a great package for a street bike, they won't keep up with an inline of the same displacement on the track but on the street the powerband is more useable. Case in point, a stock R1 can't reach it's HP peak without exceeding the speed limit pretty much anywhere in the US...in first gear. At street speeds even a little twin is way more fun to ride.



You are leaving out some of the best all time twins... BMW. The new R1150 is pretty sweet. Good ponies (120) with good handling. (Yes I am biased. I ride an R1100R).
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 9:37:20 AM EDT
Yeah, but they are serious bread to own one... and not the equal of cheaper Japanese bikes if performance is an important metric to you..

Dave
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 1:04:19 PM EDT
Actually they are not very expesnive at all. I bougt my 01 last year for 5k. Here are some pics.



Link Posted: 3/18/2006 7:19:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
It was Poland that they were Homologated through.... You'd laugh if you've ever seen pics of the "streetbike"... Like, literally, a racebike with some JC Whitney round head and tail lights hung off of it. At least an R7 looks like they may have possibly thought a guy might turn a wheel on the street with one in it's lifetime.



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