This is lost on most people. Just like the V8 V6 people who don’t take size or hp into account just the number of cylinders. Hold overs from long ago.

If you want low end, but higher dispacement, then look at a 1000 L-Twin.

I have two Ducs with the 1000DS L-Twin motor.  One is right at 90hp.  Lightweight, quick, low reving with plenty of torque.  On top of all of that, simpler to work on.

Honestly, I love that motor (riding since I was six).

Apart from the bike, read the books Twist of the Wrist I and II.  Learn the concepts discussed and apply them when you ride on the street and track.

If you still want a 1000, you could also consider a Suzuki GSXR 750.  It's the best of both worlds.

If you do get a 1000 and head to a track day, you will get blown away about how fast some guys are going on 250 and 300 compared to a rookie with a 1000.

It's funny, the older I get, the less HP I seem to desire...except for KTM's 1290!!!

Maybe this is simply the curse of the new sport bike rider. I mean who doesn’t want to go faster, and as a newbie, it doesn’t seem like learning to ride my “dinky” 650 would give me the capability to ride faster, when I could simply buy a faster bike! Like high $$ guns, why get skill when you can buy it

At least it seems like many of y’all have been at least partially in the position I’m in. I want to go faster now learning is for suckers

How many bikes have you ridden, OP? If the answer is 'one', and that 700 miles is the full extent of your experience, you have no idea what you are getting yourself into. Get more experience, get more exposure, then figure out what you really want to do.

IMO, best course of action would be to keep racking up miles, and next spring/summer, hit up some demo events so you can see for yourself what it is like to ride real sportbikes - as well as all other manner of bikes.

And they won't want to be shifted, at those speeds, either.

I took a street demo ride on a R1M. I tried to put it in third gear once. It wasn't happy. For anything resembling a legal speed on the street, you would likely be using first and second exclusively, and never touching any of the four gears beyond.

ETA:
I don't, for one. In that I'm not all about big power, fast bikes and cars. I'll look to add power here and there to things, sure, but I'm not attracted to something just because it's more powerful.

I specifically sought out a Ninja 300 as my fourth bike. I wanted something small-displacement, slower, with less power. On purpose. And after getting it, I sold my SV650S, because when I wanted to ride something sporty, I would always choose the 300.

I have absolutely zero interest in an R1, or a S1000RR, or a 1299 - I wouldn't want one even if you gave it to me for free. Really. (Though a 959 is a different story... )

One of my only regrets in motorcycling is starting too big. While I made out okay, I would have been much better served with a 250, or possibly a GS/EX500.

And a little tidbit I've heard from a number of guys now - they pretty much won't ride their superbikes on the street anymore after having started doing track days. It opened their eyes to what the bike can be capable of - and of course, they also know that they aren't even close to the real potential of the machine. But it made them realize just how fast they could - and by their own admission, likely would - get into serious trouble on the street. It's not to say that they don't ride on the street anymore, they just tend to choose other bikes for street duty and keep the big beasts relegated to track duty.

Today I wacked open the throttle of the Blackbird and got going faster than I should have and almost tucked the front under braking.

I've been riding a long, long time and even I forgot that for every accelleration there is an equal and possibly more urgent deceleration.

I’ve ridden some Harley cruisers. They’re certainly comfortable but not particularly my cup of tea.

What did you start on, and why would you say you would’ve preferred to start smaller?

ETA: and when you say guys keep their bikes track only because they would get into trouble on the street, do they mean police trouble because they could ride fast on the street, or hazard trouble because the street is lots of risks with other drivers, stuff in the road, etc?

If that is the case,  dibs on your shit since nobody else has done it.

There are too many variables/obstacles/hazards on the street.  With the added capabilities that are offered once you have the skills you'll use them,  and then you realize that you are well past any semblance of safety at those speeds.

My adventure pig only makes 150hp and if I ride it at speeds that I'm capable of doing on the street with the unknown hazards everywhere I'm likely to hurt myself rather quickly,  the odds just stack against you too fast.

I had an off just 2 weeks ago when my front tire tucked on a big stripe of liquid cow shit poured out on the road from a cattle truck not 5 minutes before we got there.  I wasn't riding anywhere near the speeds that the bike and I are capable of.  First off on the street for me in a LONG time,  I have offs in the dirt fairly regularly,  there the speeds are much slower so it's not that big of a deal, still I've broken a collarbone,  wrist and torn a tendon in my thumb in the last 5 years offroad.

Video for proof of the poo slide.   Wear gear,  I didn't have a bruise on me and still put in another 250 miles this day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smS5E-jU6Q4&t=2s

Here is one from a few years back when my buddy Joe took a turkey to the dome at about 40-50 mph,   how bad would that have hurt at a buck twenty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDtZFXfqrSU

The track just means most of the hazards on the street are gone or well mitigated.

Trouble can be many things, sport bikes do grab attention like nothing else and yeah can grab police attention more so than a bit more of a stealthy bike. The speed you can easily get to hazardous situations, and as has been discussed it's pretty easy to do so on a liter sport bike. But most of all? They are track only bikes for me because they aren't that fun on the street, especially when I can be riding any other bike and have a lot more fun. Really, what's the fun of not shifting at all? What's the fun of being able to slightly twist the throttle and get up to legal speed every so slightly faster and then having to pull back the throttle before the bike can really shine? A Ninja 650 can do 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, faster than almost any car you'll meet or drive. A liter bike can do it ever so slightly faster, if all of the stars align and you get traction. Launch it a bit wrong and you'll flip the bike. Be cautious about it and you'll actually be slower.

I would only ride them on a track because it's the only time you can actually wind them out to the point where they would be fun. Even twisty road cruising on them is boring to me. You never pin the throttle, never shift to stay in the power band, never do anything but stick it in second and modulate brakes and throttle. It's like riding a glorified CVT moped that has the chance to pancake you into a wall if you get sick and tired of going slowly. That's not to mention the god awful posture you are forced into for half the day just to get the to fun roads. I had much more fun going down the same roads on my buddies DRZ400sm than I did on my own personal zx6r or any of the other sport bikes I've ridden down them. Just the ability to thrash it around puts way more of a smile on my face than constantly having to worry about not taking it too far and killing myself or getting a speeding ticket. Was it the fastest? No. But being able to flick that thing from side to side with no effort, downshifting and upshifting like crazy to keep the momentum going, and the exhaust going crazy the whole time is so much more of a fulfilling experience than just knowing your bike can go faster than you ever would want it to. I ended up selling my zx6r after one year where I only took it out twice and decided the insurance costs weren't worth keeping something around that I wasn't enjoying any more.

I think you nailed it yourself: The allure of a big and fast bike hits every new rider. They get a tiniest bit of comfort in their abilities and want a whole lot more. It also doesn't help that newer riders only think that cruisers and sport bikes are the only two bikes out there. The more you get on bikes though, the more you realize it's not the ultimate riding experience you thought it to be. Having the biggest and fastest bike around doesn't matter as much as you thought it would, especially when it never gets used to it's capabilities. Sometimes you learn that the hard way with injuries to yourself or others, and every once in awhile there will be a close death to really remind you how mortal you are. Myself? I hit a deer and hurt a whole lot of the left side of my body from that impact. It really puts the respect of speed into you knowing that if that deer had hit you when you were going as fast as you were five minutes before the impact you'd likely not be around.

Really I think the best thing for you is to ride your buddies and just see how you like it. I don't think anyone on the internet will fully convince you otherwise, so just get out there and see what it's like. Just don't drop it otherwise you might lose a friend! And while you are at it? Try a few other bikes out as well. There are plenty of dealerships out there who would gladly give you test rides, and there is almost always a demo ride you can try over a weekend to get on a few different bikes. There are just so many bikes out there with their own characters that it really would be a shame if you missed out on what truly gives you a smile just to buy something that you only are telling yourself you want.

You made the right call, I got a beautiful TT525 sitting in the safe just for you!

Fantastic post all the way around, thanks for taking the time to post.

It’s definitely easy to get lost in spec sheets.

@-Time-

No, never would I reccomend a liter bike for a first bike, no matter the riders attitude, nor would I reccomend a 600cc supersport. One reason being comfort and riding position for a new rider (a supersport will fatigue your body faster, and can lead to a wreck as well) but also because of the overall attitude of the bike.

Even if you have the calmest, most collected new rider, they will not have the muscle memory, or the correct "instinct action" when shit goes south, and the faster the bike, the less reaction time you have to un-fuck yourself. It's all about the riders skill and experience to do the correct action in order to regain controll of the bike and prevent a crash. A liter bike accelerates so fast, with so little effort, that if you have to think about what you have to do to prevent a crash, you are already too late.

As far as knowing when you're ready? That is hard to say, and is entirely a personal choice. My personal opinion, is if you do track day events, and can maintain very consistant, and fast, lap times on a 600cc supersport, after doing the same with a 300cc sport. By that time, hopefully, you should have a feel for actual bike control, and have had plenty of "controlled" accidents in order to get the safest feel for when your bike is coming unglued.

It sounds like you want to go from a bike that tops out at 120 to a bike that will do over 100 in first gear.

I had a 600 and that was fast enough to give me tunnel vision.  I had an absolute blast riding as well.

I won't say don't do it but you will start to get comfortable and then push the bike a little more each time.  You will realize at some point that with speed you quickly run out of space and options.

I loved my sport bike, but these days I just want something to reliably put down distance.

eta. look up target fixation.  that messes up a lot of riders when they get jammed up.

I'll bet target fixation is the cause of 90%+ of single motorcycle accidents, with the rest being locking up the front brake.  The first might cause the second also...when 99% of the time, had they just kept looking and pressing, they would have made the corner little more than some skid marks in their pants.

I had a couple situations early in my career that I believe knowing what TF is and how to avoid it, kept me out of the ditch/on coming traffic.  Forcing myself to look through the turn when I got myself into a turn too hot saved my ass.  Glad I took MSF before ever buying a bike.

@OP - If you haven't already, take MSF.  I don't know a single person, even guys that had been riding for years, that regret taking that class.

My 2 cents:

Keep the 650 Ninja for another 5k miles.
By that point you should have mastered it to both of your potentials.

Then if you still want to upgrade, you'll have a better idea of what look at.

Target fixation is no joke.



These were totally avoidable.  I remember being told that you can always lean more and when the situation arrived, lean and looking where I wanted to go saved me.

Spend a day watching all of the Mulholland drive crashes.  Target fixation, lack of lean, fear, lack of situational awareness...

I rode a Cbr 600 F2 for several Years before getting the liter bike.

Making a  mistake on the 954 vs. the 600 is drastically more intense an much less forgiving.

One mistake people make is thinking they will be quicker on a bigger bike.  On a backroad twisty, that just isn't the case a lot of times.

700 miles is not very much.

That one isn't target fixation,   he hasn't learned counter steering yet.  Look at the bars and the way they go back and forth 3 times before he hit's the truck.   he's pushing on the wrong bar turning him INTO the truck while he leans away from it.

Damn that was a nasty hit. You could see him doing that on every corner from the beginning of the video.

Yup, i took it. I’ve recommended it to everyone that’s asked me how i got my license, it was a great class and I think I’ll go back for one of the advanced classes this summer.

Hadnt seen the first one, damn that fucking sucks. I wish we could see his body position, playing with hanging off of the bike at the suggestion of an online article, it makes an insane difference in how much the bike actually needs to lean to turn, and confidence for me as well.

The 2nd I saw in a motomadness comp, and all I can say is that dude freaked out, didn’t even lean.

Good stuff, thanks for posting!

ETA: 2nd crash in the last video, red helmet red bike, what do you think happened there? Was the corner really too tight for him to manage at that speed or did he get too aggressive on the throttle and slide the rear end out?

OP, I don't think you've answered the question as to whether you have self discipline or not?  Do you value your body parts?  Do you value the machine you are riding?  Do you go full throttle a lot on your current bike looking for a rush?

My first bike on right:

Attached File


Current ride:

Attached File

Beautiful bikes!

This is my ninja

http://imgur.com/EYX6iNM

ETA
Y’all are just gonna have to click the link I can’t embed

Gonna have to agree with everyone here. I've been down to summit point and its a blast being able to have the entire width of a road to yourself in the beginner levels. Unlike on a road where you're limited to your lane.  I know you want to go faster... so how about hit up revzilla buy some go fast parts for the time being; sport tires are amazingly improved over the stock junkers.  Meanwhile this winter go get Twist of the Wrist 2  and buy the cheesy video of the same name. ( It might be on Tube if you look) Also keep a lookout for some deals on a 2pc leather set, gloves, boots and frame sliders.  Sign up for a track day at EvolveGT I think your first track day is only $150.


Where abouts are you in MD?  I'm north of Frederick.

P.S. Ambulance rides at Summit Point are free!!!

I’m around Easton, right in neck country. I’ll definitely look at getting to a track soon. Hesitant about buying exaust stuff for the ninja, my ghetto math tells me I could sell the ninja and fix up a wrecked beemer with little to no cash input, which is kinda how the question came up first.

Taking a look at summit now, thanks! Shoot me a PM next time you’re gonna go and I’m sure I can find a trailer for two or more bikes if you’d be down.

I have sliders in my cart at rev I need to get around to ordering actually. I’ll be picking up some of the Q3+ tires at some point as well, unless there’s a new wiz bang product for tires.

On leathers, what brands should I be looking at? I know dianese and alpine stars, but im unsure about the fit because I’m build like uhh an American

Power to weight ratio is a thing.  Throwing a big bitch around corners is another thing.

It is all about things.

700 whole miles?  I hope you have more riding experience than that.

Alpinestars is good to go for American frames. Dianese is good, but runs a bit small and short. At 5'7" that shouldn't be much of an issue, personally I'd just order a size up. Icon is also pretty decent, but I've never personally owned any of their gear. If you are ordering a full suit I'd really suggest getting a two piece, they are so much easier to live with day to day than the full thing. Being able to take the jacket off while you sit for lunch on one of those 90+ days is damn near paradise compared to suffering through it in a one piece.

ima thinkin

I've got a pickup that could fit 2 bikes and gear!

After Buying a 1 piece as my first leather suit and comparing it to my 2 piece textile street stuff; I'm alot more comfortable in the 2pc.  I personally like dianese.... I've uhh... tested it one more than one occasion.. Still works great!  .

If you don't mind waiting a little bit and giving up on a warranty you could take a look at this place over in italy, depending on how much cheaper it could come out better than buying it stateside once you factor in shipping.

Awesome, thank you both!

Well, the difference will depend on what you buy - there are fast literbikes and there are scary literbikes. A ten year old literbikes is going to have double the power your current bike does, and a newer one will have close to three times the power (once reflashed).

Here’s my advice.... don’t move up to a literbikes until you are riding your 650 hard enough and often enough that it’s not a problem for it to wobble, headshake, move around when you are hauling ass over crests, in and out of corners, or when the bike G’s out in dips. The literbikes do these things a lot more often than on a 650 twin and they do it at much higher speeds. There are no small mistakes on a bike that has a 100+mph first gear.

If you are just going to go ahead and do it anyway, here are my recommendations:

If you are a cheap fucker and only care about going fast, buy a 2005/6 GSXR1000. Mine is still hairy fast and embarrasses my R1M badly in midrange power. It wheelies on its own in 2nd all the way up to 80mph just by opening the throttle. It’s not too uncomfortable and the chassis is decent. Spend the extra money on a Gripone traction control system for it, it needs it..... I’ve owned 15 bikes and this one has scared me more than all of the rest combined.

If you get a new bike, get something with a full electronic rider aid package like an R1. Mine saved me from an epic highside I wasn’t expecting, considering the cost of a hospital visit and lost wages, the bike paid for itself that day.

Both. Whacking the throttle open in a literbike without traction control on corner exit is a trip to the ER. There is no way around saying this:when you crank the loud handle open on a 1000cc sportbike, Shit Happens. There becomes Here Really fucking fast. Your 650 isn’t even in the same zip code as first generation S1000RR.

And the poster who said 700 miles is a weekend ride for some guys here-I did 735 in the Ozark back in October in two days. If I did that weekend as a noob on my first bike like yours, I wouldn’t be even remotely close to ready.

I hate power modes, they make the throttle tube feel like it’s slipping when I twist it.

I would have been a faster, better rider sooner if I hadn’t had fast bikes early on.

I have a CBR250r with 25hp. Your bike is twice the bike I ride. My top speed is about 92, and I can't go much faster than that until redline. There's not much passing power on the highway, which at 75mph, the bike only has about 4000 revs left before redline.  But, I know the limits of that bike, and let me just say, I haven't mastered 25hp in the corners, or even its inexpensive suspension and bias-ply tires. I enjoy my bike because I can romp on it and still be at legal speeds and not launch myself off a cliff. I'm happy with my 250, and don't have plans to upgrade because I enjoy it.
You have to ask yourself-
How do you ride?
What do you really want your bike to do?

Jesus  

After reading through this thread, I am confident that I am the only person that does NOT treat public roads as my own personal racetrack.  Damn people.  You think a literbike = dragging pegs and hitting triple digits is the only way those bikes can operate.

10+ years on 150hp FZ1's as a starter bike ('08, '12, & '13.  '12 Tiger 1050.  '83 CB1100F in there somewhere, 920 Virago, Sabre 750)...no tickets, no wrecks, and only a couple close calls due to circumstances not controlled by me.  
If OP is any sane adult, he'll be fine.   The bike is not some wild animal with a mind of its own that will kill you.  YOU control it.

And my grandmother smoked unfiltered at a pack a day since she was 15 years old... she lived to 98 years of age.  How about you suggest your kids start smoking at 15...I mean, if it worked for my grandma, it probably work for your kids.

You're the exception.  Hell, I'm the exception, I have 50k+ street miles under my belt and have not wrecked or even dropped any of my bikes(knocks on wood).  I still don't think a liter bike is a good idea for a guy with 700 miles of riding experience.  Can it be done? Yes.  Is it a good idea?  Absolutely not.

700 miles and he's already admitted to going over 120MPH twice and has commented that he just wants to go faster sometimes.

Not knocking the OP at all, but these stories don't write themselves and starting it off like that in the first chapter isn't exactly setting up the rest of the book for success.

To be fair I don’t know anyone who hasn’t opened up their bike or car or whatever to see what it’ll do.

Imo there’s a difference between OP tried to pull 120 on a crusty backroad, and OP opened the throttle on an empty highway.

My FJR on sport mode is plenty sporty for me.  Though to be honest I've never been a fast rider, more of a daisy sniffer.

And what makes you think you aren't going to do the same thing than with a S1000rr, a bike with 40 more horsepower than the FZ1 that the guy above has and almost three times the power of your current bike?

Is that the bike you'll have control on? Can you really say you aren't going to open that one up and see what it'll do? Again forgive me (and many others in here) for doubting that will be the case when damn near everything you have posted so far tells us it will be far from that.

I say put a few thousand more miles on the current bike, then skip the 600 supersport and consider a non-supersport 1000 like the GSX-S1000 (naked or full fairing versions exist), or Z1000/ ninja 1000. You get the torque of an I-4  liter-bike in a more comfortable, less high-strung package. More street friendly for sure. Wide open my GSX-S1000 isn't much faster than my R6 was, but it feels a lot faster in real-world riding.

I probably would open it up at some point, but to play devil’s advocate someone can push their vehicle fast in a line once in awhile without also throwing themselves off corners pretending they’re Rossi on their daily commute.

Not the same thing at all. None of those cars that you, I, or damn near anyone on this forum can afford can go as fast as easily as that S1000RR. A brand new off the lot Mustang feels like a Corolla when you push the two of them, and let's not forget the whole internet meme of people not even being able to even control those. 120MPH is absolutely nothing to that bike and you will get there faster than what it seems you are thinking. I've been there and done that on that exact same bike, and I wasn't even in the go fast riding mode. Would you suggest someone who has driven all of 700 miles to get into a Hellcat right after they bragged about how they topped out their Camry? You can't convince people that you are going to have control, drive it like an adult, and not speed everywhere when the very next to come out of your mouth is "Well yeah I'm going to open it up at some point" because that's a huge glaring contradiction that most of us have seen and heard from other riders countless times.

If/when you do get this bike I really do hope you prove us all wrong. That you will have control, that you won't be another statistic, and that we will all eat our words with how wrong we are. Most importantly that you have fun with the thing. Because the other alternative is something that none of us here want, which is why i think there are some very strong opinions in this thread. No one wants to see another injury, no one wants to see another death, and no one even wants to see another person drop the hobby because of the bike. These are all opinions formed from years of "been there, done that, and seen others do the same things", but it is one of those things that many people will only learn by experiencing it themselves.

Some solid points already made.  I no longer have a sports bike, but when I did I realized that they are not all created the same.  For your size and experience....stay away.  I haven't been on a liter bike in probably 6 years.  When I rode it was a gixxer 750.  I hopped on my cousins gixxer 1,000 thinking it wouldn't be that big of a jump.  He told me to get it in 3rd and open it up.  He had probably 50 lbs on me so when he did it he just got a nice little wheelie.  It came up so fast I thought I was going to come off the back.  Luckily I set it down safely.

The point is, a few years difference and 250 cc felt like a totally different beast.  Get your bike on a track and go through a bunch of sets of tires.  When you feel like the bike limits you in a corner, consider going bigger.  If you have chicken strips on your tires....get a harley if you want a bigger bike.  Realistically, unless you track your bike you need to be performing felony speeds to have fun on them

I asked about your 700 total miles earlier, but please let us know what kind of time in seat or saddle at speed, for the purposes of this exercise, lets use 120.

Also, recommend you get a dvr for the current and future bikes.  That way, folks will know what happened.

Are you asking how long I’ve had the bike at 120mph?

And don’t worry chief, I’ve got a GoPro. I’ll be sure to write in my will for someone to upload the footage to arfcom for your enjoyment.

@TheOtherDave

Interesting point here, do you mind elaborating further?

AFAIK the 1st gen bmw doesn’t have much of that stuff, but there is a wrecked 2016 for sale, I’d have to check if they have the 6 way IMUs and such.

My KTM 1190 has the Bosch 6 channel lean angle sensing ABS/TC,   it's not infallible,  I've found a few ways to trick it into doing shit you would rather it wouldn't do.

It also allows you to ride WAY WAY faster than you would if you relied on your "I'm well under the capability of the bike" knowledge without any fuss at all.....until it doesn't.