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Posted: 3/13/2006 9:02:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 8:01:06 AM EDT by Commando223]
Who would win in a street battle and why?

Even numbers, no Artillery, Tanks, or Air Support for either side.



*Marines get to use all their usual infantry weapons, M249, AT4, m240, grenades ect ect
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:03:21 AM EDT
hmm....
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:04:12 AM EDT
I recently was very fortunate to work with and shoot with some former FAST Marines. I would not want to scew with them.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:05:00 AM EDT
First, your poll is flawed.

Second, I'm just here for the entertainment value. This should be good.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:05:36 AM EDT
SWAT.....There used to be a show called combat or something. It was a reality show. It had marines, Army Rangers, Navey Seals(scott helvenston was on it), SWAT, etc....

The SWAT guys ruled all the challenges whether they were more military type, or more police type.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:07:06 AM EDT
Marines would secure the Donut Shoppe and wait them out.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:07:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:08:23 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]

Originally Posted By Kooter:
SWAT.....There used to be a show called combat or something. It was a reality show. It had marines, Army Rangers, Navey Seals(scott helvenston was on it), SWAT, etc....

The SWAT guys ruled all the challenges whether they were more military type, or more police type.



Entertainment, no blood.

Cops trip out when things don't go the way they want to.

In before the Marine haters sqew this poll.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:07:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Marines would secure the Donut Shoppe and wait them out.





psych ops!!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:08:15 AM EDT
Which SWAT team?

Are we talking like.....Dallas SWAT? LAPD SWAT? Miami SWAT? KCMO SWAT?


Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:08:45 AM EDT


BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:08:45 AM EDT

no Artillery, Tanks, or Air Support for either side.


What SWAT team has artillery?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:09:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:09:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By callgood:
Marines would secure the Donut Shoppe and wait them out.





psych ops!!



Nope. "Sucrose withdrawal"
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:12:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:12:43 AM EDT by Commando223]

Originally Posted By markm:


BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!



Both should be banned!

I'm not trolling, me and my brother were having this conversation last night and I figured I would ask Arfcom .

He said marines would win easy, I said SWAT is pretty good they seem to have better armor and have M16 type weapons and snipers too.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:14:52 AM EDT
I say SWAT.

SWAT fights dirty, they would shoot the Marine's family dogs before the battle. This would have a negative effect on morale.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:15:09 AM EDT
Marines, maybe SWAT for actual entry, but for urban COMBAT, Marines. Unless of course the SWAT team was made up of former combat soldiers or Marines. LEO's are not trained for actual combat, even the SWAT types. They are trained for quick and violent entry, and fast resolution of the situation at hand, not any kind of protracted fighting.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:16:11 AM EDT
Most SWAT teams do not carry frag frenades, or HE grenades for their grenade launchers is they have any. They also do not have any shoulder launched missiles, and lack fully automatic weapons. etc etc etc

Also marines are not trained to show the same restraint as most civilian teams. Cops are trained not to shoot in most cases, Marines on the other hand.....
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:16:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:17:12 AM EDT by macman37]
Who's the SWAT equivalent of Chesty Puller?

Marines all the way.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:16:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By Kooter:
SWAT.....There used to be a show called combat or something. It was a reality show. It had marines, Army Rangers, Navey Seals(scott helvenston was on it), SWAT, etc....

The SWAT guys ruled all the challenges whether they were more military type, or more police type.



Entertainment, no blood.

Cops trip out when things don't go the way they want to.

In before the Marine haters sqew this poll.



Yeah.................... not like a good number of cop SWAT types weren't military before.............. you know Army or Marines.

If it was a "street fight" that every swinging Richard in a building needed to be killed, perhaps more than once, just to be sure, Marines.

If it is a building that only a few people need to assume room temp in, and others need to be left unharmed, SWAT.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:16:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando223:

Originally Posted By markm:


BOTH SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CIVILIAN USE!



Both should be banned!

I'm not trolling, me and my brother were having this conversation last night and I figured I would ask Arfcom .

He said marines would win easy, I said SWAT is pretty good they seem to have better armor and have M16 type weapons and snipers too.



i think the marines have the same stuff also.
does swat have grenade launchers and hand grenades.not cs but frag?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:17:40 AM EDT
How old is the author of this question? 12? This is like asking if Superman could beat up Aquaman....
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:18:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kooter:
SWAT.....There used to be a show called combat or something. It was a reality show. It had marines, Army Rangers, Navey Seals(scott helvenston was on it), SWAT, etc....

The SWAT guys ruled all the challenges whether they were more military type, or more police type.



Please.... Real combat scenario? I highly doubt any SWAT team could take on the USMC.. And that coming from a squid!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:18:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
I recently was very fortunate to work with and shoot with some former FAST Marines. I would not want to scew with them.


There is no way even a major metropolitan SWAT team beats a similiar team of Marines. No way, no how.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:19:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:
Marines would secure the Donut Shoppe and wait them out.




Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:19:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:22:07 AM EDT by BlueCrusader]
As a SWAT cop, I can say:


MARINES.


SWAT teams are not trained in light infantry tactics, MOUT, etc etc etc. It's not part of our job description.


Also.....Superman will always kick Aquaman's ass.

BC
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:21:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By theliberating1:
How old is the author of this question? 12? This is like asking if Superman could beat up Aquaman....



Superman would win. Duh!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:22:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
If it was a "street fight" that every swinging Richard in a building needed to be killed, perhaps more than once, just to be sure, Marines.

If it is a building that only a few people need to assume room temp in, and others need to be left unharmed, SWAT.


I agree with you, but I think the premise was they were fighting *each other.*

Marines all the way. The only resource that would keep the SWAT guys in it would be their snipers.

But Marines have snipers, too.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By theliberating1:
How old is the author of this question? 12? This is like asking if Superman could beat up Aquaman....



Superman would win. Duh!



Not if they fought underwater.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:24:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Originally Posted By macman37:

Originally Posted By theliberating1:
How old is the author of this question? 12? This is like asking if Superman could beat up Aquaman....


Superman would win. Duh!


Not if they fought underwater.


Touche!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:24:47 AM EDT
Depends on situation. In any urban 'combat' Marines hands down. Now if SWAT were to bust into a building where Marines are hold up, they would stand a better chance as that's what they're trained to do.

I still say Marines though
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:25:29 AM EDT
As Karl's younger brother said in Die Hard, "There are rules for policemen."

Gimme the guys who have cracked heads in Sadr City under fire over LEOs who serve warrants in the middle of the night against perps who rarely shoot back.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:25:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Not if they fought underwater.



Nu-Uh!

Superman would use his heat vision and evaporate all the water, boilling Aquaman alive.

End of story.



BC
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:27:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:
If it was a "street fight" that every swinging Richard in a building needed to be killed, perhaps more than once, just to be sure, Marines.

If it is a building that only a few people need to assume room temp in, and others need to be left unharmed, SWAT.


I agree with you, but I think the premise was they were fighting *each other.*

Marines all the way. The only resource that would keep the SWAT guys in it would be their snipers.

But Marines have snipers, too.



Ok, not that I think it's a sensible question.

But one of the local SWAT teams, has like 20 officers, including 4 Scout/Sniper teams. Including one rascal that posts here with an AI .308 topped of with a Luppy scope.

I think if you had an accurate representation of USMC forces, a scout/sniper team would not be part of a small platoon. Even if they were, I am betting 1 team.

The USMC troops would be much better at "manuever", advancing, cover fire, etc. all stuff police generally don't do.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:28:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drewucf:
Depends on situation. In any urban 'combat' Marines hands down. Now if SWAT were to bust into a building where Marines are hold up, they would stand a better chance as that's what they're trained to do.

I still say Marines though



I dont know, Flashbangs are Evil
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:28:54 AM EDT
Keep in mind that a great many LEO's are former military.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:29:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueCrusader:

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Not if they fought underwater.



Nu-Uh!

Superman would use his heat vision and evaporate all the water, boilling Aquaman alive.

End of story.



BC



Not if they are in the ocean, the volume of water would be to large to vaporize. Even if Superman could vaporize the water, Aqua man swims at superhuman speeds and would be too tough to target, and could outrun any shock waves from the vaporization.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:32:13 AM EDT
I cant believe you guys are even debating this seriously.. A SWAT team against a squad of Marines? regardless of the SWAT members background you cant possibly think that they could trump the Marines in a real firefight? Jeeeesh.. Why dont we just disband the USMC and hire the local SWAT for the fightin Iraq..

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:34:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drewucf:
Depends on situation. In any urban 'combat' Marines hands down. Now if SWAT were to bust into a building where Marines are hold up, they would stand a better chance as that's what they're trained to do.

I still say Marines though



The Marines wouldn't be in the back room smoking crack or huredly flushing it down the toilet. They would have something more than the average sawed off H&R shotgun (saw it on Texas SWAT) They would have every likely avenue of approach covered with interlocking fields of fire from prepared hardened positions. SWAT would be screwed doing the typical police raid on any house defended by trained light infantry troops.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:34:54 AM EDT
No contest . But apples and oranges . Semper Fi
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:35:33 AM EDT
They'd join forces and eliminate the liberals!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:36:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:38:12 AM EDT by BlueCrusader]

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Keep in mind that a great many LEO's are former military.



Yep...I have a lot of prior service guys on my teams. I have 2 former Marine Scout/Snipers a MEU guy, 1 basic 0311, a couple of rifle-toters from the 101st and 82nd, a couple of Batt Boys, 1 AF Reserve PJ 1 prior AF CCT and 1 guy who did some kind of HSLD USCG gig which I can never remember the name of.

The REST of my guys who are prior service are tankers, mechanics, electronics guys, ADA guys, MI and MP. Combine those two groups of guys and that's about 50% of my active shooters.

The rest of my guys have no prior .mil exp.



Marines still win.

BC
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:36:49 AM EDT
Now that I have been thinking a bit, all of you are wrong..

It would be "Da Bears by 14"
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:38:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 9:40:59 AM EDT by m4hk33]
WOW, just WOW,

this is why i love ARFCOM, where on earth are you going to have this conversation,LOL
two totally diffrent animales being compared...

none the less Marines all the way, dont you know they brainwash us to be killing machines,

whats next, who would win in a fight, Army Rangers or Army SF,
or better yet Ranger supply vs SF supply

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:39:39 AM EDT
Oh Please.............
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:39:47 AM EDT
Also, what MOS of Marines?


I doubt Marine supply guys are going to be able to take on a SWAT team. Now if it were Force Recon, .
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:40:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By OLY-M4gery:

Not if they are in the ocean, the volume of water would be to large to vaporize. Even if Superman could vaporize the water, Aqua man swims at superhuman speeds and would be too tough to target, and could outrun any shock waves from the vaporization.



Then Superman just uses his super-cooled breath to freeze the water, catching Aquaman like a minow in an ice-cube.


BC
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:43:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m4hk33:
WOW, just WOW,

this is why i love ARFCOM, where on earth are you going to have this conversation,LOL
two totally diffrent animales being compared...

none the less Marines all the way, dont you know they brainwash us to be killing machines,

whats next, who would win in a fight, Army Rangers or Army SF,
or better yet Ranger supply vs SF supply




THE MARINES
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:43:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueCrusader:

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Keep in mind that a great many LEO's are former military.



Yep...I have a lot of prior service guys on my teams. I have 2 former Marine Scout/Snipers a MEU guy, 1 basic 0311, a couple of rifle-toters from the 101st and 82nd, a couple of Batt Boys, 1 AF Reserve PJ 1 prior AF CCT and 1 guy who did some kind of HSLD USCG gig which I can never remember the name of.

The REST of my guys who are prior service are tankers, mechanics, electronics guys, ADA guys, MI and MP. Combine those two groups of guys and that's about 50% of my active shooters.

The rest of my guys have no prior .mil exp.



Marines still win.

BC



Although my team has 1 active SF soldier, 3 former airborne infantry LRSD guys, 1 former infantry officer, and two 2 former 82nd MP's I think the Marines would be able to take us.

But not after a good fight
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:46:03 AM EDT
even with former military backgrounds the heart of a grunt marine or otherwise is team work. a military squad is so used to working togeather and calling the situation as it is that the swat team would have a very difficult time staying toe to toe with them. I do remember that tv show mentioned above though. But if I remember right the swat guys were all overweight and couldn't keep up in any physical competions. marines don't clear a room one day give each other high fives and go drinking that night. they clear a block one day rack out for a couple hours then clear the next section of the city. Endurance is key.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:46:21 AM EDT
Sherrif Will Teasle vs. RAMBO

basic Marine? or DELTA
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:48:30 AM EDT
Just your regular Marine
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