So I've loved tge martial arts forever. I was never a student in a classroom setting though. Growing up, my best friend was heavily into TKD (his father was a Sensei), another friend was in Kempo, my closest friend in HS's brother was a 2nd degree black belt or it's equivelent in Aikido, and a close friend later in life was a 2nd degree black sash in Kung Fu.

I picked up stuff from each of these people over the years and spent many years in self-study and practice in the arts.

Anyway, I put my 10 y/o son in Kyuki-do (hapkido, judo, bjj, tkd hybrid art) classes on a trial basis, 6 weeks ago.

He likes it, but I watch the class, and I have concerns. There are kids in his class that are 4 belts ahead of him, but are no more disciplined or skilled than he is, and can barely do these very basic moves.

The class is 45 minutes, twice a week, but about 30min of each class is just basic PE stuff. Jumping jacks, sit-ups, push-ups, squats, etc... and half the class isn't doing any of the excersises correctly anyway.

Is this typical? I understand the need for physical strength and endurance, but it seems grossly out of ballance.
I mean, i can do more effective 1 on 1 PE stuff with him, and the little actual martial arts learning that he's getting and what I've seen in the more advanced students, is still not disciplined.

Kids half-assed flailing around, and they got 4 belt promotions by just showing up.

Participation awards for everyone....meh.

I may be a little biased and a lot full of BS, but I would strongly advise avoiding any dojo that has anything to do with tae quon do.

Very nearly all of them are belt mills.  You can just buy the belt and not even show up for class and get the same results.

Finding a high quality dojo that doesn't hand out belts for showing up for class will require you to do some footwork.

Personally I don't subscribe to the theory that anyone can EARN a true black belt while still a kid.  But I may be wrong.

Every martial art but ameri-do-te is bullshit.  https://www.enterthedojoshow.com/

But yea, you have to be selective in your teacher.  I have my kid signed up at a karate place just so they get some guaranteed exercise and learn some minimal idea of self defense (plus they wanted to do it, that's the biggest driver).  I don't think think the place we're using is a good long term choice if I want functional self defense however, they're not focused on combative results.  They do spar, so there is more value than just cardio, but it is so very tame among the new kids it is hard to tell if it'll develop in to something useful.    Better than having em sit on the butt at home in front of electronics either way.

Like Mirror said, some are belt mills.  Pay your monthly dues and get your next belt.

My first TKD dojo was close to this.  It kept everyone moving forward and on a schedule so to speak, otherwise, those that sucked, would leave.  But this was until you reached 1st gup (before black belt).  From that point on, "one day, or ten years."  He had examples of each.

Martial arts studio is like any other commercial gym, they need membership.

From my experience, most of the "Karate" or TKD or similar that cater to kids are little more than glorified daycare centers.

I am a long time martial arts guy, and I am a firm believer that the best way to get really good at martial arts is to practice a competitive martial art.

Look into:

- Boxing
- Wrestling
- Kick Boxing (Muy Thai)
- Brazilian JJ
- Judo (my favorite)
- Olympic TKD

Schools that actually train for competition/ tournaments probably are the best

Any of these will give your child the best workout, allow them access to a martial art where they can really test their skill, and introduce them to a sport they can do for a lifetime.

Just my $0.02 (College Judoka and wrestler and Golden Gloves boxer)

^ this

A friend of mine is a very highly qualified karate instructor. Like goes to Japan for certifications....
At his do-jo he has a bit of turn over since people just want belts.

The belt color "system" was invented for American customers.  It serves the students' egos & the bottom lines of the dojos.  By contrast, look at a Judo dojo in Japan, for example: a student is either white or black, which is sort of like saying they are "on" or "off".  If a black belt isn't consistent, they have gone "off", if you will.  Back to white, & keep working.  The color signifies a state of condition, & it requires persistence to maintain a BB.  It's not like wearing a military rank or school tab.  There is no assumption that once BB, always BB.  It isn't something you accomplish, & then move on from.  The real deals are the ones that can consistently maintain their BB status over the course of time.

In conclusion, like 99.9% of all thread subjects, follow the money, 'cause 'Merica.

No, not all dojos are like the one where you have your 10 year old. Yes, you have to do some research and legwork to get one you support.

While each stype has its merits, my belief for your kid's benefit is to focus more on the instructor and how he runs his classes and develops his students than whether you think JJ is better/worse than Kenpo or others. As you mentioned, discipline, physical and mental, should be components as should exercise, technique with repitition, and sparring.

My background is college competition and I used TKD. My son is in Kenpo because of the Marine instructor. I don't love everything about it, but overall, it is a good long-term program. My son earned a junior black belt and is now wit adults at 16 and working back towards an adult black belt. Like anything, kids need to see some measure of progress to stay motivated, just like adults.

For the suggestion that competitive sport is the only way to go, I only somewhat agree. Much of the competition in the last twenty years has not been designed to hone fighting skills, but point scoring skills. They are not always the same thing, especially at lower levels. TKD dojos can be particularly bad about this.

Good luck finding one your kid will want to go to time after time that develops him in many ways.

Not in the one I went to.   But in the style they taught (traditional Japanese), our advancement was based on kata only - not on sparring.  We learned sparring and even advanced sparring, but for actual advancement, it was kata.   While sparring was fun, the kata was the building block of discipline.


I'd recommend reviewing the schools "mission statement" and see if it matches what they're practicing.  And personally I dislike any school that has "observation days" - my feeling is that you should be able to observe at any time they're open; they should have nothing to hide.  Also... contracts.  I'm against those too (the one I went to was pay-as-you-go).

This also. I did full contact karate in highschool. Wasnt for me.

I trained mostly no gi submission grappling and a little mma at elite in salt lake as a young adult. I had a blast and got worked like a bitch every day. No belts. No bs. Just grinding it out with a bunch of college wrestlers and various guys like me that started in karate, tkd, or whatnot.

Its pretty tough to get a workout in traditional martial arts. Grappling or striking is where its at. Not kata or various aerobics.

This is so true. It took me over 6 months to get my level one Krav Certification and that was with me having trained off and on previously for about 2 years. Some schools have a 1 year black belt course that if you just attend you'll have your black belt in about a year but that's all you'll have with no skill to back it up.

OP,  go with your gut feeling, it's your dollars at work.Keep searching until you find  "it".

I started with Judo in 1963, I learned from an Air Force Captain That spent several years in Japan.  From there I've immersed myself in the Arts. I'm also a fan of Hapkido

Escrima/Arnis would be a good place to look for a class for your son. It's adaptive to other Arts. focus is towards  flow / rhythm Provides a great base to expand to other Arts from.

Another vote for Judo. My daughter and I both go a few times a week. It helps that our instructor is a retired Marine, and the dojo is not for profit. We have judo, aikido, kendo, etc. All the instructors are volunteers. People are there because they want to be, and dues are pretty low. The warm up is approx 15 min, mostly to limber everyone up to take falls and such. Usually we go from 1700-1830, sometimes longer if the aikido people are filtering in late for their class.

This was from not long after she started going. She started at 6, is 7 now, and is a yellow belt. There's no child specific instruction. She learns what we do, for the most part, sans chokes and arm bars. There's no hurry to progress, for anyone. Emphasis is on mastery and knowledge of techniques. Everyone is a white belt, before anything else, ie. always learning, always progressing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPbmiFDgG3V/?hl=en&taken-by=lazaruslong87

Got my brown in Japanese JJ, if I hadn't screwed my back up id be ready for black by now.

The mall ninja/strip mall sensei schools are pretty much what you have described, competitive arts pretty much weed those guys out fast (oh at the last state tournament you had 100 people enter and NONE took any places?? vs . oh you had 15 people enter the state tournament and came home with 10 golds, 3 silvers and 1 bronze) . competitive arts like BJJ have some VERY competitive schools because of this, strip mall sensei's cant keep up and students leave.

What gets tricky though is the non competitive arts... try seeing if a couple of the more senior students can do the same kata vs the lower belts doing the same kata see if you can see the differences in movement(smoothness, precision, balance, speed, ALL should go up with belts)

I have a blue belt in Kajukenbo.

If your program doesn't involve hard sparring (not necesarily for kids, but mandatory for the upper levels) and disciplined senior students, then it's an expensive joke.

I agree, get him into Gracie jujitsu, he'll whoop butt before long

A lot of good advice here. As a teen I did kenpo to a brown belt. Looking back it was a way to slowly milk your money. Yes it did offer a small amout of skill to defend yourself but left major flaws all around.My kids and wife train mma. I refuse to go anyplace that sells belts and uses large amounts of time memorizing katas [dance lessons].  
I have seen a lot of what you are describing. Some kids that are just wasting time goofing off distracting others. I do think the condition and the teaching of skills should be separate.
I recommend bjj,boxing,kickboxing or mua thai and wrestling

Sounds like a typical McDojo. Get him in a good BJJ school.

i know i am jumping into this, but as a TKD practitioner in 2 different styles of TKD i can say many i have seen are not Tae Kwon Do, but Takes one's do.  The WTF style can be good, but the issue with it is the instructors.  Too many get a black belt and open their own schools, when the instructor is not even ready and thus creates a school of weak, under developed students who will get curb stomped.  I switched to the ITF style and it was day to night.  I think the ITF style of TKD is going to be you best bet if you can find a school in this style.  I would be selective thou.  I think boxing and some kind of grappling would be a good mix.  I think BJJ is highly over rated and i have avoided every one in my area because they are after your wallet and dont care about anything else.  

Here is a link that will answer some questions:   https://www.usadojo.com/how-to-choose-the-right-martial-arts-school/

4th dan TKD black belt here.  It sounds like the school your kid is at is very watered down.  I would look to take them elsewhere.  Having been in TKD for so long, what others have said is correct, many are belt mills run by money grabbers.  If you look long and hard enough, there are good TKD schools out there, just have to find them.

At my school, we run student classes for 45 to 50 minutes.  A typical class will have around 10 minutes focused on PE type conditioning, the rest of the time is spent on fundamentals, forms, and sparring.

We do have students who have progressed to a certain point and then for one reason or another give up, but continue to come because of their parents.  They do the motions to get through class, look sloppy and don't care.  These students don't progress, we keep them at their current ranks until their attitude changes, and they apply effort again.  Instructors encourage these students to be motivated again.

We also don't have black belts below age 16.  If a student reaches a black belt level before that age, then when they test, if they pass, they become a poom instead of a black belt and the belt is half red, half black, and they wear that until the age of 16.

At 10 that's pretty typical as the kids are still growing. The most important thing will be whether the skills are appropriate for the age group and whether the ranks/ advancements are earned ( for the kids skill level ) I saw a 13 yo that was pretty disappointed when his performance in an adult class didn't get the recognition that he gotten in the kids Saturday class.