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Posted: 2/12/2006 4:49:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:52:55 PM EDT
lookin' forward to those pics
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:55:28 PM EDT
And right in time for my tax refund... evil bastards
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:00:39 PM EDT
Interesting!!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:06:17 PM EDT
It sounds funny to have a handgun with an AR in it. But I can't wait to see it.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:14:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:27:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 5:31:49 PM EDT by uberdog]
Found after a brief searchof Turk military handguns. Me-Likey.

"The Kilinc 2000 is considered one of the "best pistols you’ve never heard of" by one author; it is known for its excellent finish, and the quality of workmanship and fit of the parts. The Kilinc 2000 Premium is the full-sized model; it is built of chrome-molybdenum steel or stainless steel, and come is a myriad of finishes, from blued to engraved and gold-plated. The guide rails run the whole length of the slide, and extra pressure grooves have been added. The back of the grip has a long beavertail for extra comfort and to stop "hammer bite." The sights are three-dot.

The Kilinc 2000 Light is a version that is somewhat more lightly-built (but nonetheless excellent workmanship). The grip is a bit shorter, and an automatic firing pin safety has been added.

The Hancer is a compact version of the Kilinc 2000; it is smaller by almost 20 millimeters, yet the barrel is almost the same length. Sarsilmaz is said to have had assistance from the Czechs in the development of the Hancer."


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:51:23 PM EDT
SARSILMAZ

"Kilinc" must be how you pronouce "CZ" in Turkey.


Cheers
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:56:13 PM EDT
They look like CZ's, Witness,baby Eagle,and Sphynx pistols.

I am sure they are nice, but whats the big deal ?nothing new here.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:05:00 PM EDT
Look nice but sort of similar to an EAA witness or a CZ.

A lot of manuacturers just came out with new handgun toys. Lot of players involved in the double stack da/sa polymer receiver market right now.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:13:47 PM EDT

Yep , looks like CZ Clones to me.

CZ makes good stuff , but these clones will have a tough time
in the Marketplace.

Armalite just should have had CZ make something special for them.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:33:01 PM EDT
Buy out EAA's pistol and shotgun lines, change the model names and sell them at a grossly inflated price just like their AR type rifle line...


http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9079/carnak9fg.jpg

What is AmaLite doing?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:36:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:36:45 PM EDT by DvlDog]
yet another CZ...yippee.

i like the looks of this one, its got a witness trigger guard and the profile kind of like a Bren-ten, it would have to be signifigantly cheaper to warrant purchase over a CZ, i have a couple of CZs and love them but my recent thread asking for first hand info on the sphinx yielded notta. i found a sphinx on gunbroker for $1400. i can buy a real CZ and have it dipped in gold for that that kind of money.

i applaud armalite in this effort and i hope its priced in the $300s
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:42:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Moe-Ron:
"Kilinc" must be how you pronouce "CZ" in Turkey.



Now THAT'S funny as hell!
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:56:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 7:57:49 PM EDT by FALARAK]
CZ's are FINE pistols. I am interested in what Armalite has changed in this new "revision" and will reserve judgement and lame comments until we have some real facts.




(always happy to see a new weapon on the market, targeted at civilians..... no matter if it is, or is not, revolutionary)
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:54:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dwimmerlaik:
Buy out EAA's pistol and shotgun lines, change the model names and sell them at a grossly inflated price just like their AR type rifle line...

img127.imageshack.us/img127/9079/carnak9fg.jpg

What is AmaLite doing?



Umm... I think that you meant to say Colt.

This pistol line may not be anything exciting, but their AR line of rifles certainly are not overinflated
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:16:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:44:07 AM EDT
I was going to say something negative...but then I remembered I am going to clean my XD today
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:04:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Remington is selling turkish shotguns under a "Spartan" name, or something like that.

The civilian pistol market is a tough nut to crack. Remember all those FN pistols that CDNN had?

The plastic framed line sounds like a competitor for the XDs. Those could sell if the price is right and Armalite has the connections to get them into the gunstores.



The Spartans I have seen were Russian, but you're probably right, they must be importing Turkish guns, too.

CZ is importing Turkish made doubles, and the new Kimber shotguns are also Turkish.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:11:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:13:09 AM EDT

Spartan shotguns are the Baikhal line that EAA was formally importing. EAA was involved in the acquisition rather than it being a hostile take-over. It was profitable for all three parties.

The Sarsilmaz products are Tanfoglio derived to an extent. This is particularly evident in the polymer "Bernardelli" models which are the Tanfoglio "Force" series pistols. Note that Sarsilmaz has used controls like those on the IMI Jericho line. I would expect that Armalite may request further modifications. Tanfoglio can provide frames with accessory rails for example should Sarsilmaz want that. The Sarsilmaz competition pistols also look interesting.

The chain from Tanfoglio out to its various partners is rather complex. One finds that they make various parts for perhaps a dozen different end manufacturers of CZ derived pistols. Specifications differ greatly between them, and even within the actual Tanfoglio badged products. It will be interesting to see what Armalite does with this product line. Tanfoglio and Sarsilmaz should be able to give Armalite anything they want in terms of caliber choices, frame features, control arrangements, capacity, and finish. Armalite should be able to make demands in terms of quality as well. IMI has always held Tanfoglio to higher standards than some other partners have, for example.

By the way Armscor is also getting ready to bring in Tanfoglio derived pistols. These will also be "Force" derived.

GR
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:14:02 PM EDT

their AR line of rifles certainly are not overinflatedhr


According to ArmaLite's website their standard 20" M-15 A4 is $1,100.00. That's rediculously overpriced when you can build the same gun for $650.00. I know someone is going to try to convince me that ArmaLite's mil-spec parts are somehow magically superior to other manufacturer's mil-spec parts right? They aren't. Now they are going to try to sell EAA witnesses with a different name stamped on them. I suppose their "CZ type" pistol is somehow superior to other manufacturer's "CZ type" pistol and therefore it will warrant the higher price tag too, right? They won't. This is a bad move for ArmaLite. They are already in the oversaturated AR rifle market with an overpriced product. Now they want to enter the oversaturated pistol market with a pistol line that is made by no fewer than three other manufacturers at an already low cost? Oh, well. I guess when you are making the big bank from government contracts you can afford to throw money at this kind of losing investment.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:22:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 1:23:57 PM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:24:15 PM EDT
I saw them at the Armalite booth, they are marked made in Turkey. Remember, those fine fellows who helped our troops get into Iraq.



I did mention that to them.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:38:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:43:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By CavVet:
I saw them at the Armalite booth, they are marked made in Turkey. Remember, those fine fellows who helped our troops get into Iraq.



I did mention that to them.



Turkey offered to send troops into Iraq and was refused by the US appointed government.



Damn straight.


U.S.-TURKEY RELATIONS Relations were strained when Turkey refused to allow U.S. troops to deploy through its territory to Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom


Turkey refused to let us cross through when it was mission critical. We dont need their help after fucking us and our soldiers.

Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:51:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:54:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 1:57:33 PM EDT by hardcase]
Aimless, I think that CavVet probably meant that they refused to let the US send US troops from/through Turkey into Iraq.

ETA:

<best Emily Litella voice> Never mind. </best Emily Litella voice>
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 2:23:32 PM EDT
Does anybody else see the irony of naming a pistol "sword". It's better than calling it "club" I guess.

If they build a jet fighter, would thay call it "Sopwith Camel"?
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:57:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:58:34 PM EDT by U_Down_Wit_OPP]
The act of rebranding itself is stupid and unimpressive.

Rebranding a rebrand of an already existing design is redundant and retarded on so many levels that I just don't know what to say.

I guess Armalite is taking a lead from Springfield Armory who took $239 HS2000's, renamed them "XD" and doubled the price so everyone would love them (and made a killing in the process, profiting from the abject lack of critical thinking skills of the "American gun-consumer" who needs words like "tactical" and a certain price point in order to feel good about his purchase)
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 3:35:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 5:02:41 AM EDT by TheRealKiller]
Huh to bad they didn't pick up this pistol and import it instead. At least it is something new and interesting.


not that I don't like the CZ and its Clones cus I do they are some great guns.


K-100

power
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:01:48 AM EDT


Please feel free to start another thread elsewhere if you want to complain about the price of factory built guns edit-oh and about Armalite's "government contracts" too hat


This thread is a discussion of the new pistols ArmaLite is going to sell and what we, the average gun buying public, think about it right? It's a bit hypocritical for you to suggest I start a new thread to have that discussion when it is more on topic than your posts opining about the war. ArmaLite's president has a note at the front of their new catalog that says due to increased demand by government contracts they are increasing production in an attempt to supply both the government and civilian markets. You can roll your eyes all you want but the business school I went to told me higher demand for your product necessitating a production increase was good, and if they can't make a profit with those criteria they are in real trouble. So, my points still stand. ArmaLite is selling products that are no better than anyone else's at a higher price. Whether it be their rifles (a debate that may never be solved to anyone's satisfaction) or their proposed new line of pistols (which anyone can plainly see are not better and don't merit a higher cost they will surely place on them). This sort of thing decreases brand loyalty and makes the consumer start to wonder things like, "if the pistol they are trying to sell me is the same as an EAA witness but more expensive, maybe they have applied that marketing idea to their rifles as well." I am not the only one who can see what's happening.

I would suggest you refrain from telling me to stop posting. My posts are on topic, factual, and well articulated. They are neither vulgar nor offensive. I am well within the terms of service of this website and until someone can factually dispute me I will continue the discussion as long as I like. The only way to shut me up will be to unjustifiably ban me.



Originally Posted By U_Down_Wit_OPP:
The act of rebranding itself is stupid and unimpressive.

Rebranding a rebrand of an already existing design is redundant and retarded on so many levels that I just don't know what to say.

I guess Armalite is taking a lead from Springfield Armory who took $239 HS2000's, renamed them "XD" and doubled the price so everyone would love them (and made a killing in the process, profiting from the abject lack of critical thinking skills of the "American gun-consumer" who needs words like "tactical" and a certain price point in order to feel good about his purchase)




I couldn't agree more.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:48:40 AM EDT
I dunno, when I was AR shopping, I was hard pressed to find a gun priced a reasonably with as high a quality level as the Armalite. If they didnt offer something, they wouldnt be around. In my opinion, any time a new gun is intro'd, is a good thing.

If these guns are the same as EAAs line, great. Hopefully, the Customer Service EAA so sorely lacks will be present in this line, and in turn, will be worth the extra money.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dwimmerlaik:
This thread is a discussion of the new pistols ArmaLite is going to sell and what we, the average gun buying public, think about it right?



Actually, no.

It's listed as "News & Announcements", posted by the site owner. I believe this was meant to be an information post only.

Too bad we've got a bunch of people shitting in it. Though that shouldn't surprise me here.

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:16:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
Actually, no.

It's listed as "News & Announcements", posted by the site owner. I believe this was meant to be an information post only.




Your belief is incorrect. The main page says the following...

"The handguns are scheduled for delivery for the late-Summer/early-Fall sales season.

Comments? Discuss Here!"

So we are commenting and discussing as requested.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:39:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 7:41:46 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By Dwimmerlaik:
Comments? Discuss Here!"



...the original post says no such thing.

Nothing like making stuff up, huh?

It's called reading comprehension -- get some. Clueless....er....Aimless was merely pointing out that if you want to act like a dick and bash the new gun, take it to a new thread in an appropriate forum.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:44:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 7:46:41 AM EDT by olds442tyguy]
If you think $1100 MSRP for an out of the box rifle is expensive, I suggest you look into rifles such as the WASR10 or the Mini 14.

If you're paying MSRP for your guns, I'm betting your dealer has no trouble putting his kids through college.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 8:28:26 AM EDT
I don't know about any of you guys but I have not seen this new gun nor a price for it. Therefore I will neither bash nor promote it yet. All I can say is cool, a new firearm for me to look at and maybe buy if I like it. Everyone is welcome to enter the game.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:13:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 9:13:55 AM EDT by patrol120]
Posted on the opening page of AR15.com


ArmaLite's Mark Westrom announced today that he is introducing a high-grade line of handguns for the U.S. Market. The arms are produced in accordance with ArmaLite specifications by Sarsilmaz Inc. Sarsilmaz has served as ArmaLite's exclusive link to NATO's second largest Armed Force for several years. Strategically located close to key Middle East hotspots, Turkish forces are the NATO element closest to the problems in that region.

Sarsilmaz has established a world-class manufacturing facility to produce arms for both the commercial and military markets.

The handgun effort is based on the standard sidearm of the Turkish Armed Forces, the Sarsilmaz-produced "Kilinc" (Sword) 9mm pistol. Finely made of classically forged and finely machined slides, barrels, and frames, the military version is upgraded to ArmaLite specifications to match the needs of the American market as the AR-25. They are high-capacity, double action pistols produced in full size and compact steel-framed models in calibers 9mm and .40S&W.

A similar line of pistols has been designated AR-24, which are produced with polymer frames for law enforcement and other customers requiring a lightweight handgun. Like the AR-25, they will be available in full size of compact-framed models in calibers 9mm and .40S&W.

The AR-26 is a surprise: a fine double action .45 caliber pistol.

The handguns are scheduled for delivery for the late-Summer/early-Fall sales season.
Comments? Discuss Here!

Link Posted: 2/14/2006 9:41:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CavVet:

Originally Posted By Aimless:

Originally Posted By CavVet:
I saw them at the Armalite booth, they are marked made in Turkey. Remember, those fine fellows who helped our troops get into Iraq.



I did mention that to them.



Turkey offered to send troops into Iraq and was refused by the US appointed government.



Damn straight.


U.S.-TURKEY RELATIONS Relations were strained when Turkey refused to allow U.S. troops to deploy through its territory to Iraq in Operation Iraqi Freedom


Turkey refused to let us cross through when it was mission critical. We dont need their help after fucking us and our soldiers.




Dork. So we should blame the manufacturer of the pistols for the actions of the government?

Buy AMUUURRRICAN!!!!
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 10:04:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
Posted on the opening page of AR15.com


ArmaLite's Mark Westrom announced today that he is introducing a high-grade line of handguns for the U.S. Market. The arms are produced in accordance with ArmaLite specifications by Sarsilmaz Inc. Sarsilmaz has served as ArmaLite's exclusive link to NATO's second largest Armed Force for several years. Strategically located close to key Middle East hotspots, Turkish forces are the NATO element closest to the problems in that region.

Sarsilmaz has established a world-class manufacturing facility to produce arms for both the commercial and military markets.

The handgun effort is based on the standard sidearm of the Turkish Armed Forces, the Sarsilmaz-produced "Kilinc" (Sword) 9mm pistol. Finely made of classically forged and finely machined slides, barrels, and frames, the military version is upgraded to ArmaLite specifications to match the needs of the American market as the AR-25. They are high-capacity, double action pistols produced in full size and compact steel-framed models in calibers 9mm and .40S&W.

A similar line of pistols has been designated AR-24, which are produced with polymer frames for law enforcement and other customers requiring a lightweight handgun. Like the AR-25, they will be available in full size of compact-framed models in calibers 9mm and .40S&W.

The AR-26 is a surprise: a fine double action .45 caliber pistol.

The handguns are scheduled for delivery for the late-Summer/early-Fall sales season.
Comments? Discuss Here!




Well isn't THAT some shit....

Oh well....

I guess a default login to the team section misses the main AR15.com page.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 11:13:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dwimmerlaik:

their AR line of rifles certainly are not overinflated


According to ArmaLite's website their standard 20" M-15 A4 is $1,100.00. That's rediculously overpriced when you can build the same gun for $650.00. I know someone is going to try to convince me that ArmaLite's mil-spec parts are somehow magically superior to other manufacturer's mil-spec parts right? They aren't. Now they are going to try to sell EAA witnesses with a different name stamped on them. I suppose their "CZ type" pistol is somehow superior to other manufacturer's "CZ type" pistol and therefore it will warrant the higher price tag too, right? They won't. This is a bad move for ArmaLite. They are already in the oversaturated AR rifle market with an overpriced product. Now they want to enter the oversaturated pistol market with a pistol line that is made by no fewer than three other manufacturers at an already low cost? Oh, well. I guess when you are making the big bank from government contracts you can afford to throw money at this kind of losing investment.



Gee, guess what..............YOU don't have to buy one if you don't like it.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 11:26:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dwimmerlaik:


Please feel free to start another thread elsewhere if you want to complain about the price of factory built guns edit-oh and about Armalite's "government contracts" too I would suggest that you call it a day as far as posting in this thread.



This thread is a discussion of the new pistols ArmaLite is going to sell and what we, the average gun buying public, think about it right? It's a bit hypocritical for you to suggest I start a new thread to have that discussion when it is more on topic than your posts opining about the war. ArmaLite's president has a note at the front of their new catalog that says due to increased demand by government contracts they are increasing production in an attempt to supply both the government and civilian markets. You can roll your eyes all you want but the business school I went to told me higher demand for your product necessitating a production increase was good, and if they can't make a profit with those criteria they are in real trouble. So, my points still stand. ArmaLite is selling products that are no better than anyone else's at a higher price. Whether it be their rifles (a debate that may never be solved to anyone's satisfaction) or their proposed new line of pistols (which anyone can plainly see are not better and don't merit a higher cost they will surely place on them). This sort of thing decreases brand loyalty and makes the consumer start to wonder things like, "if the pistol they are trying to sell me is the same as an EAA witness but more expensive, maybe they have applied that marketing idea to their rifles as well." I am not the only one who can see what's happening.

I would suggest you refrain from telling me to stop posting. My posts are on topic, factual, and well articulated. They are neither vulgar nor offensive. I am well within the terms of service of this website and until someone can factually dispute me I will continue the discussion as long as I like. The only way to shut me up will be to unjustifiably ban me.



I couldn't agree more.



No, your posts are not factual as you don't even know the price of the pistol

As for not being offensive, how about:


ArmaLite is selling products that are no better than anyone else's at a higher price. Whether it be their rifles (a debate that may never be solved to anyone's satisfaction) or their proposed new line of pistols (which anyone can plainly see are not better and don't merit a higher cost they will surely place on them).


Again, you don't even know the price of the pistol, so you are not speaking from any knowledgable point of view and the tone of your posts is meant to be offensive to Mark and his people.


This sort of thing decreases brand loyalty and makes the consumer start to wonder things like, "if the pistol they are trying to sell me is the same as an EAA witness but more expensive, maybe they have applied that marketing idea to their rifles as well." I am not the only one who can see what's happening.


Oh boy, another one of those who thinks he knows more than everyone else.

Brand loyalty??????? As you apparently are loyal to another brand, WTF would you know about brand loyalty to ArmaLite?

28 posts and daring a moderator to ban you. Yeah, real smart.

You just wanted to do some ArmaLite bashing, that's all. It really would not matter if they said they were going to give them away, you would find something wrong with that.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 12:20:39 PM EDT
I for one welcome ArmaLite to the pistol market. I find it kind of interesting that they are entering it with a CZ type pistol, but hey at least its not another 1911 (now that is an over saturated market). I like 1911s and all, but there are already more than enough choices in the market, and if ArmaLite is going to build a clone of some sort, at least it is something a little more unusual.

I just may have to consider one of these new ArmaLite pistols when the time comes to buy one.

As to whether or not ArmaLite's rifles are overpriced, I couldn't disagree more. Every shop that I see ArmaLites in, they are priced competitively with there competition, generally with no more than $50 between the prices. A gun manufacturer also must pay an excise tax on all of their finished arms, something that we build at home guys don't need to. Like all taxes, this is passed along to the consumer in the form of inflated prices.

ArmaLites perform just as well, if not better than other firearms on the market, and if we can expect the same quality from their new pistol (and if the headline is correct, shotguns too) they will be well worth the cost of admission. I wonder if they're going to bring back the AR-17.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 4:03:42 PM EDT
They should have invested the time and money in the AR-180B. I mean they could make some fairly simpole mods and put a new EBR on the market. They need to take advantage of the end of the Assault Weapons Ban; add the folding stock, bayo lug, and flash hider. Maybe put the dust cover back on the upper and put a built in rail in it too.



Another CZ/Witness/Tangfolio is not impressive.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:14:01 AM EDT
Any new info or pics of these pistols? We were promised pics darn it!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:53:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 9:53:59 AM EDT by U_Down_Wit_OPP]

Originally Posted By SkyCatII:
Any new info or pics of these pistols? We were promised pics darn it!



Google "CZ75" and you can have all the pics you might desire of this pistol .
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:12:03 AM EDT

They should have invested the time and money in the AR-180B. I mean they could make some fairly simpole mods and put a new EBR on the market. They need to take advantage of the end of the Assault Weapons Ban; add the folding stock, bayo lug, and flash hider. Maybe put the dust cover back on the upper and put a built in rail in it too.



I actually agree with is 100%. With a bit of investment on the part of Armalite, and a return to the aluminum lower, the AR180 would be ten times the gun the much lauded Sig 556 is going to be. Offe rthe 180 with the AL lower, 16"bbl, integral rail, and a folding stock of decent design, it would slay the non-AR EBR market.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 10:53:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:

They should have invested the time and money in the AR-180B. I mean they could make some fairly simpole mods and put a new EBR on the market. They need to take advantage of the end of the Assault Weapons Ban; add the folding stock, bayo lug, and flash hider. Maybe put the dust cover back on the upper and put a built in rail in it too.



I actually agree with is 100%. With a bit of investment on the part of Armalite, and a return to the aluminum lower, the AR180 would be ten times the gun the much lauded Sig 556 is going to be. Offe rthe 180 with the AL lower, 16"bbl, integral rail, and a folding stock of decent design, it would slay the non-AR EBR market.



The AR180 never had an aluminum lower to return to.

Just out of curiosity, if they did all the things some want and the rifle rose to the price of their M15 or the other competitor's prices, would you buy one at the more expensive price?

Hell, would you buy one at all?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:21:19 PM EDT
Was the lower initally steel? I know it wasnt always polymer....

And yeah, id buy one in a heartbeat if it were availble in a configuration that suited my needs. Ive always loved the simplicity of the gun, and the ergos are very good, IMO, as good as the AR in every way.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 8:22:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patrol120:
Was the lower initally steel? I know it wasnt always polymer....

And yeah, id buy one in a heartbeat if it were availble in a configuration that suited my needs. Ive always loved the simplicity of the gun, and the ergos are very good, IMO, as good as the AR in every way.



It was stamped steel. I have an original and a 180B. I don't see what you find objectionable about the current configuration. I have on of the very early ones. I am adding the flash suppressor right now and will add a folder later.

www.stormwerkz.com has the folding stock adapter and they have also come up with 2 different length picatinny rail scope mounts that attach to the dovetail mount.

See this thread for lots of things guys have done with their 180Bs.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=62&t=218119&page=13

I started on this page because it has the pics of the picatinny rail mount.

If you have a problem with the polymer lower, you shouldn't. It doesn't rust or corrode and with it, the 180B is lighter than the original. It is very durable and a polymer lower on this rifle takes less abuse than a polymer lower on a pistol and they seem to work pretty well.

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