User Panel
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By dnguyen747:
I have two MWS's. They are built like tanks and are battle proven. OBR's are very nicely built guns, but I prefer a tank over a Ferrari. View Quote ...and the OBR isn't? View Quote lol... no View Quote Tanks breakdown a lot, so I get your angle. View Quote LoL, so you are a tanker now, I thought you were a machinist... a simple we do not pursue contracts that place our weapon systems on the modern battlefield as we are dedicated to providing top notch precision weapons systems to organizations that are more focused on enforcing laws and regulations View Quote In keeping with your clueless persona, you actually have not a clue as to what we pursue and win quietly, nor do you have a clue as to what gets carried in every warfighter's hands. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
LoL, so you are a tanker now, I thought you were a machinist... a simple we do not pursue contracts that place our weapon systems on the modern battlefield as we are dedicated to providing top notch precision weapons systems to organizations that are more focused on enforcing laws and regulations View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By dnguyen747:
I have two MWS's. They are built like tanks and are battle proven. OBR's are very nicely built guns, but I prefer a tank over a Ferrari. ...and the OBR isn't? lol... no Tanks breakdown a lot, so I get your angle. LoL, so you are a tanker now, I thought you were a machinist... a simple we do not pursue contracts that place our weapon systems on the modern battlefield as we are dedicated to providing top notch precision weapons systems to organizations that are more focused on enforcing laws and regulations In for the smackdown. ETA: 39 damn seconds |
|
|
i don't get the "its what seal team 6 uses" argument. And lets be honest the solicitation and selection of rifles / pistols (from the Army and Marines to Homland Security and DOJ) is a mess right now anyway. |
|
|
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
LoL, so you are a tanker now, I thought you were a machinist... a simple we do not pursue contracts that place our weapon systems on the modern battlefield as we are dedicated to providing top notch precision weapons systems to organizations that are more focused on enforcing laws and regulations View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Originally Posted By dnguyen747:
I have two MWS's. They are built like tanks and are battle proven. OBR's are very nicely built guns, but I prefer a tank over a Ferrari. ...and the OBR isn't? lol... no Tanks breakdown a lot, so I get your angle. LoL, so you are a tanker now, I thought you were a machinist... a simple we do not pursue contracts that place our weapon systems on the modern battlefield as we are dedicated to providing top notch precision weapons systems to organizations that are more focused on enforcing laws and regulations OBRs have shot bad guys in bad places. As for what I think you are trying to quote it is out of context but it's not my words so I'll let someone else argue it. |
|
|
Originally Posted By smithbusiness:
Larue (only if you are willing to wait some time) http://imageshack.com/a/img538/3522/orQj4h.jpg View Quote You can catch them on Gun Broker sometimes if you don't want the long wait. And I think Mr Larue posted that they were all caught up. |
|
|
I was hoping to get more information on hands on feedback from these rifles as I am in the market for one. I have narrowed down my choices to just the REPR and the PredatOBR. I am still researching if any aftermarket mags like the ones from Magpul will work with these rifles. As of now I am leaing toward the REPR as I have seen a flyer for a free Aimpoint that should be up next week.
|
|
|
OBRs have shot bad guys in bad places. Lol. No they havent. unless we are talking about the south side of houston. |
|
dropping close to 7 grand on a 1MOA gun is akin to throwing brembo brakes and a super charger on a honda mini van
|
|
OBR is awesome. No experience with the others
|
|
|
Originally Posted By one2boost:
Do you have any hands on experience with any of the 2 rifles I asked about? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By one2boost:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
OBRs have shot bad guys in bad places. Lol. No they havent. unless we are talking about the south side of houston. Do you have any hands on experience with any of the 2 rifles I asked about? Put him on ignore ... He's a stalker, every time he sees the name LaRue, he whips off his pink panties and starts waving them wildly in the air. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order.
If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. View Quote You're tracking the OP has bought more than one Larue sense starting this thread? |
|
|
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
You're tracking the OP has bought more than one Larue sense since starting this thread? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. You're tracking the OP has bought more than one Larue sense since starting this thread? Yep. I too had an OBR before I got an SR25. The writeup contains a side by side comparison of the SR-25 and the OBR, which is something to the best of my knowledge had not been done before, or since. Just another datapoint. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. View Quote Surprised I made the list after searching to see that just over half of the threads that pop-up as threads you've posted in are in the KAC industry forum. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Surprised I made the list after searching to see that just over half of the threads that pop-up as threads you've posted in are in the KAC industry forum. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. Surprised I made the list after searching to see that just over half of the threads that pop-up as threads you've posted in are in the KAC industry forum. Mr. LaRue, You have many fine points - Brilliant machinist, successful businessman, innovator - but this stalker thing is, well, kinda creepy. . . . I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. Just because I personally prefer the ECC to a PredatOBR doesn't change the fact that the tOBR is a good rifle. As for posting in the KAC forum, its got a lively bunch of posters and some entertaining, intellectually stimulating conversations. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Mr. LaRue, You have many fine points - Brilliant machinist, successful businessman, innovator - but this stalker thing is, well, kinda creepy. . . . I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. Just because I personally prefer the ECC to a PredatOBR doesn't change the fact that the tOBR is a good rifle. As for posting in the KAC forum, its got a lively bunch of posters and some entertaining, intellectually stimulating conversations. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. Surprised I made the list after searching to see that just over half of the threads that pop-up as threads you've posted in are in the KAC industry forum. Mr. LaRue, You have many fine points - Brilliant machinist, successful businessman, innovator - but this stalker thing is, well, kinda creepy. . . . I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. Just because I personally prefer the ECC to a PredatOBR doesn't change the fact that the tOBR is a good rifle. As for posting in the KAC forum, its got a lively bunch of posters and some entertaining, intellectually stimulating conversations. Not stalking, investigating. When something out of the blue pops up, I use the search function for clues. Your clues are glaring. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Not stalking, investigating. When something out of the blue pops up, I use the search function for clues. Your clues are glaring. View Quote OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Not stalking, investigating. When something out of the blue pops up, I use the search function for clues. Your clues are glaring. OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. You should know by now that you can't win with that guy. Recommend any other brand then his and he has a hissy-fit. Forget his product. I have, this thread is an example why. If OP decides to buy a Larue after this, more power to him. Any other reasonable person would have been able to elimate one manufacture by now in their decision. It's a pretty easy thing to do, not get into snarky comment quote wars on ar15.com. The day Tactical Tailor sells the Covert Case directly without the Larue logo will be a happy day. OP, another brand to consider is GA Precision |
|
|
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Not stalking, investigating. When something out of the blue pops up, I use the search function for clues. Your clues are glaring. OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. I'd like a link to those articles, if possible. |
|
|
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Not stalking, investigating. When something out of the blue pops up, I use the search function for clues. Your clues are glaring. OP asked for information and feedback on a variety of 7.62x51mm AR platforms. I offered to send him a copy of a writeup and overview I wrote over 2 years ago that contained information on several 7.62x51mm AR rifles. This is considered out of the blue, how exactly? If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. As for my glaring clues, during your search you should have noted that I've also posted in YOUR subforum a number of times over the years too. I dont really post much there anymore, but I do stop in to read fairly often. Like I stated before Mr. LaRue, I appreciate finely engineered and machined devices, no matter what form they come in. That's why I included your products on the list I originally posted - because you do make good rifles and optic mounts. Likewise, Knights Armament and LMT are on that list because they also make good rifles. Could you send me a copy of that comparison as well? Thanks |
|
Really big people are, above everything else, courteous, considerate and generous -- not just to some people in some circumstances -- but to everyone all the time. - Thomas J. Watson
|
Krazny13, I also would like to read your article.
Please post a link. I have a excellent .308 / 7.62x51 Semi , but like to read as much about the larger AR's as I can. |
|
*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM |
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Well, how about a search hint ? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
<snip> If you're interested in reading it yourself, I've posted it in 4 locations over the years. If you cannot, or don't feel like locating it, I can provide you a .pdf copy. Well, how about a search hint ? I suspect you have the 'email user' button directed to an otherwise ignored account, but I'll send a link that way. The forum its posted on requires you to be a member to view threads. Its the main reason I prefer to email copies. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle.
|
|
|
PM link please!
|
|
|
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. View Quote LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. " /> |
|
Really big people are, above everything else, courteous, considerate and generous -- not just to some people in some circumstances -- but to everyone all the time. - Thomas J. Watson
|
Originally Posted By MichaelVain: LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MichaelVain: Originally Posted By safetyoff: Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? |
|
|
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? View Quote For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. .988" ... speaking of clues. That aside, you continue to exhibit almost uncanny inside knowledge of the inter-workings at Knight's, so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that is the LaRue rifle a Florida coast resident regaled acquiring and autopsying to the nth degree. The autopsy finding that most stuck with me was "there is no way you guys are making money off that rifle." |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By Krazny13: For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13: Originally Posted By safetyoff: ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. If a person were to buy an SR25 today new it would have a chrome lined barrel, is this correct? If the OP was to buy a new rifle from KAC it would have a chrome lined barrel right? For basis of this conversation shouldnt we stick to focusing on KAC rifles with chrome lined barrels, agree? What I posted is personal experience. I shoot Larues with great success at distances that, let's just say, a little longer than most are accustomed to. I can state a Larue rifle has never let me down. I cannot say that for KAC and that's why I no longer own one. I would like to add that it might be prudent for some here to call a few of the most respected barrel makers out there today, Krieger, Bartlein, Dan Lilja, Broughton etc... And ask their opinion about wether a chrome lined barrel could be made to consistently shoot with a similarly made un-lined barrel. See how long would it takes before you tire of hearing "NO!" followed by laughter from some |
|
|
Originally Posted By CaribouLou45:
Just a quick pull from the KAC forum (not mine): http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u645/45Thoughts/KACAPC_Target1_zps133d2c5c.jpg While you don't see targets posted as much on the KAC forum as Larue, there are fewer people on the KAC forum given the higher price. When you do see them posted, they look like the above. Hopeful mine will be no exception. Currently setting up the glass on it. View Quote Post on up once you get her going. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html |
|
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
.988" ... speaking of clues. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Why do I get the feeling you've been digging through your records armed with that information. . . . Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
That aside, you continue to exhibit almost uncanny inside knowledge of the inter-workings at Knight's, so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that is the LaRue rifle a Florida coast resident regaled acquiring and autopsying to the nth degree. The autopsy finding that most stuck with me was "there is no way you guys are making money off that rifle." Mr. LaRue, I will state this as plainly as possible. I am not employed by Knight's Manufacturing, nor have I ever been an employee, contractor, or supplier of KAC or any of its various subsidiaries. I do not, nor have ever lived in Florida. The OBR I purchased was never sent anywhere for tear down or inspection while it was in my possession, and was later sold to a gentleman in Texas because I don't have access to a range I thought could really stretch its legs. What he did with it after I sold it to him, I cannot say for sure, but from what I recall of the sale he was planning on getting into precision rifle matches with it. If a competitor acquired and tore down one of your products for inspection and analysis, I had nothing to do with it. Aside from the comparison section of my overview, any notes I have made on the OBR have never been outside of my possession, nor have they been shared with any other party. I have not received nor desired any sort of compensation, monetary or otherwise, from the creation and distribution of the documentation I've written on the SR25 or OBR. I have not been party to any sensitive or proprietary documentation on either rifle, everything I know has either come from sources in the public domain and my own personal observations. If my 'knowledge' seems uncanny, its because I tend to do my homework when I put my mind to researching something. What I actually do for a living is stated in the document - I test mining and construction equipment for an equipment manufacturer. I created the document because I thought it'd be fun to look at a couple of rifles the same way I look at the machines I work on. Plus, it seemed like a good way to kill a weekend. . . . |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
If you don't mind can I ask where this .065 - .085 statistic comes from, source? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. You tell me. I typed 0.65 to 0.85 inches, not 0.065 to 0.085 inches - you're the one who's off by an order of magnitude. Originally Posted By safetyoff:
If a person were to buy an SR25 today new it would have a chrome lined barrel, is this correct? If the OP was to buy a new rifle from KAC it would have a chrome lined barrel right? For basis of this conversation shouldnt we stick to focusing on KAC rifles with chrome lined barrels, agree? For the first 2 questions, the answer is 'Depends on model'. Last question is 'No, because not all currently available KAC models have chrome lined barrels.' Originally Posted By safetyoff:
What I posted is personal experience. I shoot Larues with great success at distances that, let's just say, a little longer than most are accustomed to. I can state a Larue rifle has never let me down. I cannot say that for KAC and that's why I no longer own one. Ok. To tell the truth I really don't care one way or the other about your opinion, or why you had it, nor did I question or inquire as to how you reached that opinion. You're certainly entitled to have one, as much as I am entitled to have mine. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Why do I get the feeling you've been digging through your records armed with that information. . . . Mr. LaRue, I will state this as plainly as possible. I am not employed by Knight's Manufacturing, nor have I ever been an employee, contractor, or supplier of KAC or any of its various subsidiaries. I do not, nor have ever lived in Florida. The OBR I purchased was never sent anywhere for tear down or inspection while it was in my possession, and was later sold to a gentleman in Texas because I don't have access to a range I thought could really stretch its legs. What he did with it after I sold it to him, I cannot say for sure, but from what I recall of the sale he was planning on getting into precision rifle matches with it. If a competitor acquired and tore down one of your products for inspection and analysis, I had nothing to do with it. Aside from the comparison section of my overview, any notes I have made on the OBR have never been outside of my possession, nor have they been shared with any other party. I have not received nor desired any sort of compensation, monetary or otherwise, from the creation and distribution of the documentation I've written on the SR25 or OBR. I have not been party to any sensitive or proprietary documentation on either rifle, everything I know has either come from sources in the public domain and my own personal observations. If my 'knowledge' seems uncanny, its because I tend to do my homework when I put my mind to researching something. What I actually do for a living is stated in the document - I test mining and construction equipment for an equipment manufacturer. I created the document because I thought it'd be fun to look at a couple of rifles the same way I look at the machines I work on. Plus, it seemed like a good way to kill a weekend. . . . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
.988" ... speaking of clues. Why do I get the feeling you've been digging through your records armed with that information. . . . Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
That aside, you continue to exhibit almost uncanny inside knowledge of the inter-workings at Knight's, so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that is the LaRue rifle a Florida coast resident regaled acquiring and autopsying to the nth degree. The autopsy finding that most stuck with me was "there is no way you guys are making money off that rifle." Mr. LaRue, I will state this as plainly as possible. I am not employed by Knight's Manufacturing, nor have I ever been an employee, contractor, or supplier of KAC or any of its various subsidiaries. I do not, nor have ever lived in Florida. The OBR I purchased was never sent anywhere for tear down or inspection while it was in my possession, and was later sold to a gentleman in Texas because I don't have access to a range I thought could really stretch its legs. What he did with it after I sold it to him, I cannot say for sure, but from what I recall of the sale he was planning on getting into precision rifle matches with it. If a competitor acquired and tore down one of your products for inspection and analysis, I had nothing to do with it. Aside from the comparison section of my overview, any notes I have made on the OBR have never been outside of my possession, nor have they been shared with any other party. I have not received nor desired any sort of compensation, monetary or otherwise, from the creation and distribution of the documentation I've written on the SR25 or OBR. I have not been party to any sensitive or proprietary documentation on either rifle, everything I know has either come from sources in the public domain and my own personal observations. If my 'knowledge' seems uncanny, its because I tend to do my homework when I put my mind to researching something. What I actually do for a living is stated in the document - I test mining and construction equipment for an equipment manufacturer. I created the document because I thought it'd be fun to look at a couple of rifles the same way I look at the machines I work on. Plus, it seemed like a good way to kill a weekend. . . . Well, I searched "mining and construction equipment" I got coffee, I'll keep Googling. ETA - 308 shoots down a drone |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By Krazny13: You tell me. I typed 0.65 to 0.85 inches, not 0.065 to 0.085 inches - you're the one who's off by an order For the first 2 questions, the answer is 'Depends on model'. Last question is 'No, because not all currently available KAC models have chrome lined barrels.' Ok. To tell the truth I really don't care one way or the other about your opinion, or why you had it, nor did I question or inquire as to how you reached that opinion. You're certainly entitled to have one, as much as I am entitled to have mine. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13: Originally Posted By safetyoff: Originally Posted By Krazn For the older SR25's with the Obermeyer barrels, that was supposedly fairly common. Chrome lined SR25's seem to usually fall between 0.65 and 0.85 inches, some worse, some better. As a point of reference, the test target on my OBR was 0.988. You tell me. I typed 0.65 to 0.85 inches, not 0.065 to 0.085 inches - you're the one who's off by an order If a person were to buy an SR25 today new it would have a chrome lined barrel, is this correct? If the OP was to buy a new rifle from KAC it would have a chrome lined barrel right? For basis of this conversation shouldnt we stick to focusing on KAC rifles with chrome lined barrels, agree? For the first 2 questions, the answer is 'Depends on model'. Last question is 'No, because not all currently available KAC models have chrome lined barrels.' Originally Posted By safetyoff: What I posted is personal experience. I shoot Larues with great success at distances that, let's just say, a little longer than most are accustomed to. I can state a Larue rifle has never let me down. I cannot say that for KAC and that's why I no longer own one. Ok. To tell the truth I really don't care one way or the other about your opinion, or why you had it, nor did I question or inquire as to how you reached that opinion. You're certainly entitled to have one, as much as I am entitled to have mine. You are correct about opinions, did you reach your opinion by not shooting both rifles on the range you didn't have to shoot on? The same nonexistent range that caused you to sell your OBR? Nevermind it sounds like you get an extensive amount of actual trigger time and you have a high post count so it all makes perfect sense now |
|
|
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Can you show us what you have done with it? Were you able to reproduce that level of accuracy? The factory target is closing on 6 years old surely you have shot it for accuracy? ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. |
|
Really big people are, above everything else, courteous, considerate and generous -- not just to some people in some circumstances -- but to everyone all the time. - Thomas J. Watson
|
Originally Posted By MichaelVain: I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MichaelVain: Originally Posted By safetyoff: Originally Posted By MichaelVain: Originally Posted By safetyoff: Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. I would like to see a sample like you stated above, it would be very interesting regardless of the outcome. But I would argue that it's is mechanically unlikely that a SR25 ECC with a chrome lined barrel could approach the consistent accuracy of a Larue rifle. If you like Buzz words let's say "match grade" barrel. KAC has "match grade" barrels yes, however "match grade" is disingenuous nomenclature after the hard chrome plating is performed. Chrome plating=handicapped |
|
|
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
I respect your reasoning, however; I have a different view on exp and knowledge outweighing mechanical ability. At any distance, especially long range and ELR to be consistently successful a shooter has to have a known zero variable baseline, this would be the rifle/optic/ammunition system. Analytical assessment of a miss at 1400 yards is impossible to correct if the mechanical ability of your rifle is a questionable part of the equation. You must figure out what YOU did wrong knowing your rifle will do EXACTLY What you tell it EVERY time without question. If you are off by 2 MOA at 1400 making the proper correction is exp and knowledge, if your rifle system is a factor as well a miss is inevitable even though you did your part correctly. Do you kind of see what I am saying. I would like to see a sample like you stated above, it would be very interesting regardless of the outcome. But I would argue that it's is mechanically unlikely that a SR25 ECC with a chrome lined barrel could approach the consistent accuracy of a Larue rifle. If you like Buzz words let's say "match grade" barrel. KAC has "match grade" barrels yes, however "match grade" is disingenuous nomenclature after the hard chrome plating is performed. Chrome plating=handicapped View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. I would like to see a sample like you stated above, it would be very interesting regardless of the outcome. But I would argue that it's is mechanically unlikely that a SR25 ECC with a chrome lined barrel could approach the consistent accuracy of a Larue rifle. If you like Buzz words let's say "match grade" barrel. KAC has "match grade" barrels yes, however "match grade" is disingenuous nomenclature after the hard chrome plating is performed. Chrome plating=handicapped I agree with your premise that if you have mechanical accuracy that is very poor, you do not start with a good baseline. My point was to answer your question about whether or not I could shoot that test target, and that answer is very much No because of my lack of skill, experience, technique, etc. I'm sure that someone who is proficient should be able to shoot that test target, as someone has done it before. If you gave me an OBR with a test target of 0.25 and asked me to shoot that same result, I would give you the same answer...I doubt I can do it. In the class I attended, I was able to hit a steel target at 1000 yards, which says more about my spotter guiding me in and my ECC's accuracy than my skill. Regarding chrome lined vs not chrome lined, the SR25 APC is not chrome lined. I agree that comparisons should be made apples to apples. As far as I can tell, KAC does not advertise that their barrels are "match barrels" on their chrome lined guns, at least I don't see it in any descriptions. If I look at LaRue's website, the guarantee accuracy is 1MOA, this is the same accuracy standard that most manufacturers use. This is why I'm perplexed whenever there are claims that LaRue rifles are just manufactured to be inherently more accurate than other quality manufacturers. To be fair, I've never seen ML make these claims, it's usually from the fan base. |
|
Really big people are, above everything else, courteous, considerate and generous -- not just to some people in some circumstances -- but to everyone all the time. - Thomas J. Watson
|
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. Okay, so you're untrained or skilled in your own words and want people to read an article you wrote regarding the definitive answer to which of these rifles is the most accurate? Did I miss something |
|
|
Originally Posted By awmp:
Thread title - ".308 LMT or LaRue or Ruger or COLT or Wilson Combat" Your experience with any of the rifles in the subject line? Getting the .308 bug. Uses - Target / Hog / Fun View Quote OP, I see the word fun in your post ... so did you have some fun with this thread ? |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
If I look at LaRue's website, the guarantee accuracy is 1MOA, this is the same accuracy standard that most manufacturers use. This is why I'm perplexed whenever there are claims that LaRue rifles are just manufactured to be inherently more accurate than other quality manufacturers. To be fair, I've never seen ML make these claims, it's usually from the fan base. View Quote You might be interested in this or an archived one. |
|
|
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Okay, so you're untrained or skilled in your own words and want people to read an article you wrote regarding the definitive answer to which of these rifles is the most accurate? Did I miss something View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. Okay, so you're untrained or skilled in your own words and want people to read an article you wrote regarding the definitive answer to which of these rifles is the most accurate? Did I miss something Yes, you missed that it was not me who wrote the articles. It was Krazny13 who wrote them. |
|
Really big people are, above everything else, courteous, considerate and generous -- not just to some people in some circumstances -- but to everyone all the time. - Thomas J. Watson
|
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Okay, so you're untrained or skilled in your own words and want people to read an article you wrote regarding the definitive answer to which of these rifles is the most accurate? Did I miss something View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Having shot a KAC right beside Larue rifles, my suggestion is Larue. The average KAC rifle does not shoot to the same accuracy level as the average Larue. IMO reliability is the same. Fit and finish, edge goes to Larue. Ergo, I prefer the tOBR. Price, Larue wins. KAC brings nothing to the table that Larue does not as well. Accuracy is the most important aspect to any rifle I own, for myself, the accuracy edge alone is worth the decision to buy Larue. The KAC guys will say they are just as accurate. Do a little research and go to the KAC industry forum, find a single post that has any basis or pictures or discussions of targets, groups or rifle accuracy. Then go to the Larue page and do the same. The difference is telling. If you want a extraordinarily accurate beautifully machined and assembled .308 autoloader you would be doing yourself a great disservice by not purchasing a Larue rifle. LOL this statement is laughable. Here you go. http://<a href=http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f68/michaelvain/SR25LWMTarget.jpg</a>" /> ETA: That is a nice test target. So are you saying that is typical, and what one should expect from a KAC? I'm not a very skilled shooter. I've never had formal training on precision shooting, and my first carbine class was this past Feb. There's no way in hell at this point in time, that I could even come close to that test target. I'm sure you could wring more accuracy out of an Olympic Arms that than I could out of a KAC or LaRue. As someone who claims to shoot long distances that to beyond normal 308 ranges, I'm sure you will agree that skill, experience and knowledge outweigh mechanical accuracy. My point was that KAC can and does make accurate rifles, and can compete with any semi auto 308 on a mechanical accuracy scale. IMO, if you were to take a sample size of 1000 OBR's and 1000 KAC SR25 ECC's, the aggregate accuracy would be very similar. If the accuracy difference from 1" to 0.5" is so critical in the application of your 308 rifle, I think it could be argued that you should be using something that' snot a semi auto 16" gas gun. Okay, so you're untrained or skilled in your own words and want people to read an article you wrote regarding the definitive answer to which of these rifles is the most accurate? Did I miss something |
|
|
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Well, I searched "mining and construction equipment" I got coffee, I'll keep Googling. ETA - 308 shoots down a drone View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Well, I searched "mining and construction equipment" I got coffee, I'll keep Googling. ETA - 308 shoots down a drone Lots of cool videos out there. Two that spring to mind are the Liebherr Excavator that climbed up a mobile gantry tower, and the Cat one where they play Jenga. Originally Posted By MichaelVain:
Yes, you missed that it was not me who wrote the articles. It was Krazny13 who wrote them. I don't know who should be more insulted, me because he attributed my work to someone else, or you because he mistook you for a fat, ginger Enginerd. . . . Originally Posted By safetyoff:
Obviously I meant to type .65-.85 (sorry to confuse you sir) so where did you get that statistic/information? It s a legitimate question, or perhaps you got it from "them" or "they" and posted it here as fact....... You are correct about opinions, did you reach your opinion by not shooting both rifles on the range you didn't have to shoot on? The same nonexistent range that caused you to sell your OBR? Nevermind it sounds like you get an extensive amount of actual trigger time and you have a high post count so it all makes perfect sense now Like many LaRue owners, KAC owners often post pictures of new purchases, and mention or include test target group sizes. Shocking insider source, I know. And your decimal point slip didn't really confuse me. The fact that a shooter who claims to shoot back at 1400 yards with a 7.62 gasser would carelessly misplace the decimal point is. . . .curious, however. But as I stated before, If you hate KAC and wake up to dillo dust stains on the bedsheets, that's fine - good for you. I didn't ask about nor was I interested in your experience with/opinion of LaRue and KAC guns. Yet you seem to persist in trying to inflict both on me under some mistaken belief I might suddenly care. . . . As for my range, its limited to only 300 yards. Access to distances further than this is sporadic and usually involves the better part of a day in a car each way. With the majority of my shooting occurring at those short distances, it really didn't make sense to hang on to a rifle that's optimized for 600-800 yards. I have a fair bit of trigger time on the OBR, not nearly as much as my SR25's, admittedly, but enough to have an idea of what they are capable of. And have shot examples of each out to 1000 yards. Which is one of the reasons I put the word 'I would probably lean towards' in front of the words 'KAC, LMT and LaRue.' Seriously. Did you guys miss the original part where I was recommending LaRue rifles? |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
OP, I see the word fun in your post ... so did you have some fun with this thread ? View Quote I don't know about the OP, but I'm having some. And it's been educational. I've definitely learned to reconsider before recommending your products in the future, Mr. LaRue. |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Good enough Kranzy I no longer care that you dont care either, and saying anymore to you would be an obvious waste of time.
I will say that as for your passive aggressive comment about shooting claims at 1400 yards....Jason Jeter is the YouTube, have a look at the 1 mile plus stuff too......Of course not that you care but just for the record no need to find something "curious" that is easily seen with your own eyes........... |
|
|
Originally Posted By Krazny13:
I don't know about the OP, but I'm having some. And it's been educational. I've definitely learned to reconsider before recommending your products in the future, Mr. LaRue. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
OP, I see the word fun in your post ... so did you have some fun with this thread ? I don't know about the OP, but I'm having some. And it's been educational. I've definitely learned to reconsider before recommending your products in the future, Mr. LaRue. Originally Posted By Krazny13:
Of the rifles mentioned, I'd probably lean towards the KAC, the LMT, or the LaRue, in that order. If you'd like OP, shoot me an email and I'll send you a copy of a write up I did of the SR25 (EC and ECC) and the OBR. Well, losing having you recommend LaRue as a last resort is gonna hurt ... I'll call our banker and break the news. |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Originally Posted By LaRue_Tactical:
Well, losing having you recommend LaRue as a last resort is gonna hurt ... I'll call our banker and break the news. View Quote I'm sure you'll manage. Like I've said several times in this thread you do make good rifles. And actually, my 'last resort' would be a Blackthorne, proceeded by a sharpened stick. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
v~= 0.0 m/s, Cd ~=1.4
I am not a member of the Second Shift Inquisition, and I am no longer allowed to wear that hat. |
Originally Posted By awmp:
Dang ! After shooting with sea2summit (which by the way is a very good shot and knows his stuff) I find myself wanting and saving for a LaRue. Well should I say saving for a LaRue PredatOBR in 7.62, the only reason saving for the 7.62 is a I bought a LaRue PredatOBR in 5.56 last night! Got home after shooting and my wife said how was it, I started talking and she said oh no, here we go again! LOL. Yeap, hold on baby! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By awmp:
Dang ! After shooting with sea2summit (which by the way is a very good shot and knows his stuff) I find myself wanting and saving for a LaRue. Well should I say saving for a LaRue PredatOBR in 7.62, the only reason saving for the 7.62 is a I bought a LaRue PredatOBR in 5.56 last night! Got home after shooting and my wife said how was it, I started talking and she said oh no, here we go again! LOL. Yeap, hold on baby! Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By mezzkat:
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
You guys can stop now. OP is going to get his hands on a tOBR this weekend...but I am bringing a crowbar to get it out so after that it's all on Mark. You are a wise man. So how hard did you have to pry on that bar to get your rifle back? And is the smile still on OP's face? I had to distract him with an OBR to get him to let go. Said something about wife and trouble and needing a place to sleep tonight if I remember correctly awmp, I tossed this note in a couple threads today ... Comparing our last year's rifle sales through 4/15, 2014 to the same period this year - rifle sales are near double. Might be that now that we're caught up folks are more willing to take the leap, or it might be that those thousands of rifles delivered last year are getting seen by the neighbors, dunno. Either way, we're cruising along, barrel shop is clicking, MBT trigger shop is clicking, and we're getting things settled on some new calibers. ML |
|
I have been asked to point out that I am LaRue Tactical's owner.
My work has been used by tens of thousands of US Military personnel, and tens of thousands of civilian shooters - ML |
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.