It seems to me there is a counter to each negative, but I am no pro and don't even reload so let me have it

1.  the gas port hurts accuracy
Counter . This is insignificant and good barrel makers put the gas port in the grooves of the rifling, though most don't.

2.  The bolt carrier movement throws the shot off
Counter.  Extended gas system and adjustable gas help this.  May not be able to completely eliminate it.  I would guess a shorter barrel with ELRG would be the least effect, say 20" or 22" with ELRG for creedmore, but 308 might be fine for all combinations.

3.  You cant reload weaker loads to properly chase accuracy nodes.
Counter...got me.. sorry..  Bolt guns win there.  Not all gassers can be made to run on weak ammo.

4.  The bolt lock up is not as consistent on AR10 platform as bolt guns
Counter... I say this is completely true.

5.  Lock time is much longer
Counter.  mostly true.  High Speed Match is pretty good though.

6.  Rough on the ammo
Counter.  guilty

7.  Rough on the brass
Counter. Guilty.

8.  Less rigid frames
counter.  I don't know.

9.  Gassers need more open chamber for extraction.
Counter...I don't know if this is even an issue.

What kind of accuracy are you chasing?

I'm not sure inferior would be the word I choose to describe the difference between the two.

Gas guns can maintain a rate of fire a bolt gun can only dream of while still being incredibly capable in the accuracy department.

If basing the decision solely off accuracy... I'd be inclined to entertain the argument more.

Gas guns are harder to shoot accurately consistently. The operating mass will explot any weakness or error in your fundimentals of markmanship or position. Baring that good consistant fundamentals will produce bolt gun like accuracy it the system is capable of it.

Different tools different jobs. Not easy to rack up multiple kills in a sounder of hogs with a bolt gun as a semi automatic rifle.

I don't consider them inferior. Just different.

They will never win Benchrest.

BUTT!!! I've never owned an ARMALITE AR-10 (A4/T)

20"-24" that could not shoot sub-1/2MOA, multiple 5 shot groups @ 100yds

with fodder that they liked.

That's @ a dozen AL 10s since 1999.

Oh yeah, A4 means twice lapped, chrome-lined for those in Rio Linda.

Depending on your game the semi has taken quite a few disciplines including the NRA Highpower National Championships (multiple times). Semis can be very competitive in other disciplines to include benchrest.  Thanks for playing!

LOL:  My real evidence that dispels most if not all of the bolt gun "advantages."  I like bolt guns too.

Haha, so I was in the middle of responding to this last night when my son came in and drug me away from Arfcom. But to sum, I agree completely with Sinister. Many of the points regarding gas guns arent really applicable....The carrier doesnt even start getting gas to operate until well after the bullet has passed the gas block and the bullet should be well out of the barrel before significant movement of the carrier happens. 

Highpower doesn't require very accurate rifles.

True, but nobody's won with a bad rifle, either.  

Get both or it is you're arsenal that is considered inferior.

This!

Semis in BR, maybe but definitely not competitive.  Probably not even competitive at a club level BR match.  I've yet to see an ar do .25moa on demand, everytime, and .25 moa ave agg would get u in the bottom 1/3- last, even at our club BR matches.  As others have posted different tool for different use.  When I go out at night to call yotes, I've either got a 14.5"ar with thermal & ital, 10.5 with dbal i2 and 952, or 16"DD with acog/clip on and dbal a3. Ime, if I'm going to carry a heavier rifle for lr or elr shooting it'll be a bolt gun, but I've never needed to engage 30 tangos inside 750 meters.

Biggest difference is the BCG slamming back into the breech and barrel extension, and its effects on sight picture continuity for watching where your shot went.

Not a huge issue with .223 Rem, but comes more into play as you use larger cartridges or light rifles, and especially the traditional SR25/AR10 BCG in the bigger guns.

That can be tamed somewhat with low-mass carriers and adjustable gas, tuned recoil systems like the JP SCS, in combination with a muzzle brake, but you still need enough inertia and mass to chamber the cartridge fully.

Accuracy is not the problem though, especially with barrel and tight-fit receivers, quality assembly with squared mating surfaces, and rigid receivers fit tightly with a solid stock and modern triggers.


I think a bigger factor is that a lot of matches are rigged to favor a bolt gun, and don't put a lot of emphasis on fast TGT-to-TGT transitions at distance on a shot timer, and all the stages are set-up for LR, rather than a mix of close-range defensive or chance-contact scenarios, followed by more deliberate LR stages.

If one were to combine a lot of the distances and scenarios from PRS, with more practical 3-Gun scenarios (not canned stages with racing stripes and sponsor stickers galore), requiring only one type of rifle to be used, it could get really fun.

More 2-Gun matches with room and within city street distances, as well as 300-800+yds distances from positions.

They throw the brass out for the enemy to see.  

I have no clue if that really is a thing or not.  I just thought I remember reading it in one of the Hathcock books that that's one of the reasons the marines went with a bolt gun in Vietnam over the M14 / M21  Maybe a minor reason.

I guess that's probably not a problem with the Barret .50 cal because everyone is dead within a 5 meter radius of where you send it.    Just kidding.

Some of my precision gas gun shooting does tend to have the ole, 1 shot away from the rest of the group thing going on.  That first shot being a different force to chamber making things a bit different I guess.

You must full length resize a semi, bolts can be neck sized and bumped 2 thou.

You must limit loads to mag length and SR25/DPMS pattern mags are shorter than AICS pattern mags. This requires more jump and some bullets require less jump to be accurate.

Gas guns are more sensitive to over book loads. A slightly sticky bolt lift in a bolt gun might be a reliability nightmare in a semi. Low powered loads are not the issue as you need 85% or greater case capacity fill to get your accuracy node.

Many times bolt guns allow for lower scope to bore offset. This reduces deflection due to cant and amount of offset to account for with under 100 yard shots. This advantage goes away with something like a Ruger Precision Rifle.

Generally, the triggers are better... well.... lighter in bolt guns.

Bolt lock up is not as tight on a gas gun, but that is not as important as you might think.

Generally, you don't see sub 1/2 MOA gas guns. Most gas gun guys are happy with anything sub MOA. Most bolt gun guys shoot for 1/2 MOA as the minimum and 1/4 MOA as the goal. This is very general and does not apply to everyone, but is the case with most shooters I have found.

A 1.8" 5 shot group at 200 to a gas gun guy is great! To a bolt gun guy, it's a dog you need to sell or rebarrel. I also hear gas gun guys often say things like, "This group... if you throw out this flyer..." while a bolt gun guys understand flyers always count. I have noticed a real large divide in the "never had a good bolt gun" gas gun accuracy shooters and the dedicated bolt gun guys. Gas gun guys like to give rifle accuracy as best group of the day, where bolt gun guys discuss average group size and ignore smallest group size as a statistical outlier. Gas gun guys quote 3 and 5 shot groups while bolt gun guys discuss 5 and 10 shot groups. These are generalities and stereotypes, for sure, but generally hold true IMO.

Bolt guns win the pure accuracy game, for sure. Can a best of breed gas gun, like a JP custom beat a bargain rifle like a Ruger Precision Rifle? Yes, but barely. Put a better barrel on that cheap Ruger and the JP can't beat it any more. Compare the JP to an equivalent custom bolt gun and it always loses.

Well put.

I am currently building a 6mm creedmoor gas gun and will spend almost double on it as I did my rebarreled RPR. I am under no delusions that it will shoot near as well as the RPR.

Very good points.  I do like to interject the one thing I learned from reading stuff.  And makes sense to me with my experience in hunting.  Might not be as applicable to military use.  But I remember reading hathcock chose that winchester all the time not because it was the best grouping gun, but because he knew the first round out of it was going to be where he thought it should be.  And for what he did that makes sense.  If you know you're going to be shooting multiple times for sure, I guess that's not as important.   And even though when hunting deer there were times I fired more than once, obviously the first shot you hit with is the most important. And the first shot taken is probably going to be the best shot you have.  Especially if they're standing still for you.  Since they typically start running after hearing loud noises.  

Although I did have one stand still for me and I missed the first 2 shots and got her with the 3rd    I blame the small pine tree in front of her that I think I hit.  Either that or I had buck fever.   Hey, I was using irons on a lever gun, so.....

I guess the point of all that is that I think bolt guns MIGHT have a tenancy to be more on target the first shot as opposed to that whole the loading of the first round in a gas gun sometimes is off from the others.  But I guess if it's not a lot it shouldn't matter much either.....  But at 600 yards it might...

I think the real advantage to bolt actions is the ability to load ammo longer than SAAMI spec. That can't be done and still fit in the magazine with a semi-auto.

A good bolt action trigger is head and shoulders better than any AR trigger on the market.

Bolt actions can be pillar bedded to achieve a glove like fit between the action, barrel and stock.

So can ARs.

But people throw fits because they have to use a torch to install their barrel .

^^^This is where I was going^^^  

The ability to better manipulate the ammo in most bolt rifles during the reloading process to wring out all the potential in the bullet and specific gun/barrel seems to be where bolt rifles gain their accuracy advantage.  I think a quality barreled semi can achieve the same thing if you shoot it "single shot", but then there's no advantage for having the semi.

If one is buying only quality, store bought ammo or reloading their personal ammo back to full sizing, factory specs, then there may be little advantage.

Top 2 reasons for me...

-Once you tune a bolt gun to .X moa it pretty much stays there until you burn the barrel out. Gas gun can be as accurate but keeping it there is a JOB.

-Bolt is just more fun. Stick shift vs automatic.