Anyone have an ETA on Wolf military classic Grendel?

@superdoc Sportsman's Guide is saying 04-02-18 for their backorders.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/wolf-military-classic-65-grendel-fmj-100-grain-500-rounds?a=1870109

Debating on what dies to get. Redding Type S ($140ish) or Redding Type S Match ($250ish).. What do you guys think?

Type S Match

Type S

Match Monster bullets, 123 gr, HPBT, .510 BC.  Have not heard of these, Midsouth has them for 500 for $120.  Anyone know anything of them?

The match set would be nice for when you're trying different COALs, though you can still do it with the regular ones as well. It just takes more trial and error to get there.

.510 BC on a 1.2" HPBT bullet seems a bit optimistic to me, looks more like ~.490. Though so long as they're match grade it'd be a somewhat moot point. Probably worth checking out at that price anyhow.

They are Nosler Custom Competition knock offs.. Or rebranded Nosler CCs. They are identical at any rate. Same dimensions and loading data.

Sounds interesting, for practice anyway.

I looked through the thread and didn’t find anything, but has anyone used either the Rainier Match or Criterion 6.5G barrels from Rainier?  If so, how’d they perform?  They utilize a .136 bolt?

It really doesn't have to be a lot of trial and error.  I make a mark on the die and the set plunger, then knowing the size of the thread on the plunger you can simply calculate how many rotations (1/8, 1/4) to get the adjustment you want in thousandths of an inch.

+1 Im looking at the same ones, really would like to keep it at or under 2 lbs.

The .136 bolt is the standard and what you want.

Is the 6.5 G like 5.56 where a rifle length gas on an 18" barrel will give you a softer recoil impulse than mid length gas?

Would go on a carbine lower with H2 buffer and shot suppressed.

Yes, but since there is more bore space, RLGS 18" are finicky unsuppressed unless you open the gas port.

Suppressed, you'll be fine.  It will handle like a 20" basically with the suppressor added dwell.

@LRRPF52

What length barrel and gas system pairing is optimal in your opinion?

That one works well if you keep it suppressed.

The hardest one on guns is the 18" MLGS with a standard suppressor (not flow-through).

LaRue makes the Tranquillo for that reason.

When suppressing, I personally like shorter barrels, which is why my 12" CLGS will be suppressed more than my others.

You can dial them in with adjustable gas, and I'm using an adjustable carrier for that reason, Bootleg.

But I've seen and shot 20" RLGS guns with no mods that ran well with Thunderbeast Ultra 5, very quiet.

I wont be running a suppressor most of the time.

I was leaning towards 18 inch barrel length because it seems that's a pretty good compromise for distance and maneuverability. Should I be looking for a rifle length gas system, or a mid length?

I run a rifle length gas piston on my 18". And the plus is the cases are almost as clean as if they were fired in a bolt gun.  If you choose mid length I'd go with the an adjustable block with bypass. Like the Superlative arms.

What's your gas port diameter?

Not sure but it was over gassed when it was DI.

So after reading this I'm curious. Doing a couple of first builds with my dad (one for him one for me) and both have rlgs. One is a 20" barrel the other will be 18/20 just haven't decided for sure yet. Both needing a 750 gas block. I already have an odin gas block but it's just the low profile one. Should we be getting adjustables instead? Neither will be suppressed as of now. Thanks!

No need for adjustable gas with RLGS in 6.5 Grendel in my experience.

If anything, the 18" RLGS will need to be opened at the port with some loads to run reliably.

American gunner in stock at sportsmans

My Grendel has a 20" barrel and a standard gas block.  Never had an issue.

Ok I'm in.

16" BA Hanson barrel for $213 shipped was too good to pass up. Probably pick up a Maxim bolt for $75.

On the plus side I have a shitload of CFE/XBR and 130 gr Bergers from my 6.5CM so just need cases and dies to start rolling my own.

My 12" pistol

What glass are you using?  Mine is still in parts, I'm a lazy bum.

Nice, interested in seeing some crono #'s and groups.

Well I caved after a year of watching this caliber evolve.

Sorry no pic's but here is the build spec's:

Seekins billet lower
Aero upper
Primary Weapons BC with bolt .136" from BHW
Jard 2 stage trigger
ACE stock w/ rifle buffer
JP hg and adj gas block, rifle gas system
Gunfighter CH
BHW (264 LBC) 20" med barrel (.877"/.750")1/8 twist
Rugged Surge w/brake
Topped w/a LaRue SPR-E and Steiner 4-16x50 Extreme Predator
C Products 10 rd mag's (E-Lander 17's on order)

First day, bore sight then 1 shot got me 2.5" low at 50 yards off a poor bench, first 3 shot group using Fed 130 Berger's
resulted in a .23" group. Went to steel (12"x12") at 100,200,300 and 400 yards using JBM Ballistics app and went 1/1 on each.

Purchased a bunch of Nosler 123 CC's and Hornaday brass off the EE, will be chronographing and working up a load this coming week.

Pissed at myself for waiting this long to jump on the G train, looks like a 12.5" build is next.

Thanks to all who have posted in this thread with great info.

After becoming familiar with real-world 6.5 Grendel ballistics and seeing the actual supersonic reach, I wondered if there was a short barrel/bullet combo that would stay supersonic out to 1000yds.  While getting close, most programs showed supersonic reach out to maybe 850yds from a 10.5" with 123gr Scenar or SMK (using about a .260 G7 BC), 875yds for an 11.5", and 900yds for a 12.5" barrel.  These are still very impressive numbers for a compact weapon that is PDW-sized, but still not breaking the 1000yd mark.

Nosler recently introduced the 130gr RDF with a G7 BC of .307 (.615 G1).  From a 12.5" Grendel Pistol or SBR, 1000yds supersonic reach is now possible with that bullet, according to the G7 drag model.

So now we're looking at an under-the-coat or inside the car gun that works extremely well for Close Quarters, then can be used to hunt medium game with, as well as shoot effectively out to long range with.  It has 1 mil of drift at 450yds, and 2 mils at 800yds, 2.8 at 1000yds, assuming a 2230fps mv with 1/8 twist.

Here is where I'm at currently.  I'm looking at some of the new compact, high factor variables right now for optics, either NXS8 or March 1-8 Mini.

TBAC Ultra 5 7.6oz Titanium suppressor has been in jail since September last year, which will go on the end.



Next phase will be some function-testing, followed by load development.  I'm thinking of just going straight into 130gr RDF from the get-go.

Once I have a decent load, I'll start smacking steel from 200-1000yds.

The goal is to do a video showing CQM drills, running up the stairs, then making 1st-round hits at 600-1000yds.

Update: Test firing and Long Range Work

Just got done running a 2-Day Long Range course and had the opportunity to test-fire and extend the range on this little pistol out to 800yds.

I was anticipating cycling issues since I'm in new territory with the Maxim PDW brace, mini buffer, and this barrel combo with CLGS, but it was flawless.

I tested first round hold-open with one round of 123gr American Gunner, locked back beautifully.

Then went through a mag while field-zeroing/holding at 200yds.  Everything ran fine, ejection is very positive at 4 o'clock, slings the brass out 15ft away.

Saturday, I dialed my reticle into POI at a rough 100yds, and proceeded to engage steel from 400yds to 800yds with at least a 90% hit rate, as I was figuring out the trajectory difference between this 5.56 GRSC reticle and the actual Grendel ballistics in that scope.

Here's a picture of Buffalo Canyon from a previous DM Course.  If you look at the top of the buttes on the left, then come down to the base of the cliff, that's where the 800yd steel is.



Out to 500yds, everything with the 5.56 M4 62gr reticle was dead-on center-punching the steel like it was easy.  For 800yds, I used 700 plus one dot below the 700yd line for repeated hits on the steel buffalo.

Recoil is noticeably more than a 16" or 18" lightweight Grendel, but it's a much smaller gun with a stiff recoil Maxim Defense spring that is very positive in returning the BCG into battery, love it.

No steel was safe within my view, and it only goes up to 4x.

Using 2 different Elander mags, a 17rd and 24rd, it felt like everything was tip-top and absolutely no hiccups.

I'm interested to see how this sucker is going to do with 107gr SMK and 130gr RDF, as well as 95gr Controlled Chaos.

Using the Hornady American Gunner, the wind drift is a lot more than a Scenar, maybe 1.4 mils for me at 500yds.

With 123gr Scenar, it's 2.5 mils at 1000yds at North Springs (6600ft elevation), supersonic to 1150yds, assuming a 2230fps mv.

This is what the GRSC reticle looks like:


The dot below 700 was dead-on for me at 800yds in the conditions we were in Saturday.

I really made an effort to avoid the Grendel build. It just seemed some people were over selling a faddish round and I didn't see how a fat case could feed that well in a sporting rifle. I went with a 6.8 spcII build or 3 and have yet been able to dial in the accuracy inside 200 yards I expected.

So I built a Grendel and now I'm a believer. The 6.5 grendel is just inherently an accurate round with ample energy and sufficient velocity. Velocity alone means nothing at all without acceptable accuracy.

I'm a fan of the fatty for sure.

I wish I would have built a pistol Grendel long ago, but the original giant pistol brace options just didn't do it for me and I never liked the idea of asking a criminal enterprise for permission to exercise my rights, along with a $200 fee as a big "up yours" just to make sure you knew you were being reamed.

I did finally break down and do it for a suppressor, because it's just not nice to show up to the range unsuppressed in Utah anymore, and will be great for HD and my courses.

Dave Fortier became a big fan of the 12.5" Grendel after having one cut down to that length early on.

The next step will be an integrally suppressed Grendel I think.

That LaRue SUURG is looking hot-to-trot.

I'm looking at my 107gr SMK drift and trajectory numbers, and they are far better than I expected.

1 mil drift at 475yds, 2 mils at 800, and 2.7 at 1000yds.  For the range I was at and use for my DM courses, the 107gr SMK will be supersonic to 1075yds (6600ft elevation, usually 23.5" hg barometric pressure there).

Your finally coming over to the dark side using a BDC reticle for quicky shots. Okay now for the 64 dollar question. How is the reticle for judging range?  I can do fairly well out to 500 yards but the error is not as big an issue. But it seems like the error out weights the my range guessing beyond 500yds and I need a range finder.

Damn, I’m already in the middle of two builds but time to start a pistol

I've had this GRSC 1-4x for many years on my SOPMOD Block II back-up carbine for DM courses, kinda forgot about it.

I was also raised on the Leupold M3A when that's all we had on M24s back in the day, with its turret BDC.

Biggest disadvantage of BDCs is conditions change, especially for me at altitude, so you need to know holds up and down based on barometric pressure and temp.

The GRSC reticle is the fastest reticle I've ever used for range determination and 1st shot because of the scaled 10" circles.

Reticle-based range estimation is pretty much limited to accurate 500yds and in as a general rule when looking at smaller targets based on human sils/heads.

The hardest nut to crack is developing a quick range-finding technology that is user-friendly and reliable, integrated into the rifle optic and weapon.

I was dead-on out to 500yds with the 1-4x GRSC and my 12" Grendel, then had to put out 2 sighters for 800yds since the BDC is calibrated for M4-62gr 5.56 NATO, not 123gr 6.5mm BTHP from a 12", but on 4x with clear glass and low recoil/low muzzle blast, I was easily able to see my hits and find the point of impact quickly without ever taking my eye out of the scope.

My plan is to use Vortex Dope Disks with the reticle image and my dope indicated with little dots on the reticle picture, instead of drop charts.

I'll carry maybe 3 different density altitude-based dope disks that I can plug and play depending on what elevation and temp range I'm in.

My wife loves the Vortex dope disk with her 4-16 on the 7mm08. And she refuses to shoot past 500 yards with that setup. She goes for the RPR in 6.5 Creedmoor or the 7mag both with adjustable turrets. I'm cheap and old school and used the label tape with my slash range corrections. I was pleasantly surprised by Strelok Pro and the BDC corrections. But that's for when you have time to enter your data.  
A 1-8 with a 6.5 Grendel reticle would be a nice add on to the pistol length grendel. Maybe Vortex will step up.

Was shooting yesterday out to 1000yds at only 2 MOA targets.

That's a struggle for 12" 6.5 Grendel with .450 BC 123gr BTHP American Gunner ammo with a discontinued 4x scope for sure.

Connected at 300, 500, and 700yds.

Needed the 18" LaRue Stealth 2.0 Grendel to connect with that ammo at 1000yds.

If you look at the reticle picture, the tiny white dot way off in the distance under the 800yd stadia line is the 1000yd target.

I said "screw it" and gave in: my next build will closely mimic yours, LRRP.

If I was doing the pistol build over again, I would use the LaRue Stealth Upper/Handguard combo with 10.5" handguard.



That wasn't available when I started this pistol build early last year, or at least I didn't know about it.

I’m still torn between that or just doing a 556 but he is certainly making a good case for the Grendel. Need to get more trigger time behind my 20” Grendel though. Ps what’s the best way for pictures on here now? Have a question on markings on the casings my Grendel spits out.

Just curious on why you are so big on that..? I’m pretty new to building and have used aero precision receivers for both of my rifles and they seem great even with the continuous tops but tbh couldn’t tell you the difference between a 39.99 lower vs a 300.00 lower

It's very lightweight, but feels like the handguard is part of the upper.  It's a very solid feeling arrangement that isn't really present on other uppers I have.

It's also free-floated to the extent that the handguard doesn't even touch the barrel nut.

It bolts onto the upper and the mate of the 12 o'clock rail is very consistent.

The handguard is very low profile, streamlined, yet strong.

Do you happen to know the exact weight of the LaRue 2.0 setup?  Their normal AR pattern billet upper is on the heavy side.

Tagged for updates.  I would like to add a shorty 6.5G upper to my SBR stable.

I've been thinking a lot lately about what configuration AR I would standardize if I had to pick one for my arms room.

When thinking about all that, I don't want to lose short range, carbine CQM performance and compact profile.

I also don't want to lose my intermediate-to-long range capability from the longer guns.

My 12" Grendel is more compact than any of my 5.56 blasters, and feels not much different when looking through the scope compared to 16" and 18" Grendels.

I think this is the direction I would go if I had to make a LRRP family issue carbine/PDW.

More muzzle energy than a 20" 5.56 NATO...

More retained energy at 400yds than a 24" barreled .30-30 Winchester has at 200yds...

Will kill medium and large game within common hunting distances...

Excellent HD and truck or ranch gun...

Is almost boring shooting steel with at 400-800yds on sils....

Steel case ammo available on the cheap...

Hornady American Gunner available for less than empty brass....

Just waiting for my 5" Titanium TBAC can to get out of freaking jail......

Now if you could get that stupid long ass background check rolled back to a reasonable time. As if  $200.00 isn't enough money to hire someone to actually get something done in a 30 day time period.

Needed a backup.

Started out the year with no Grendels. Now I have a BA 18", Larue 18", and AA 16".

Pics.

And, which one is most accurate?

Can you elaborate on this? Why would one need a stronger extractor and what is being done to test them?