User Panel
Posted: 2/14/2016 7:47:44 PM EDT
Field craft seems to be the best place to discuss this.
What do you use for gear? Map and arial/satellite photos are a given. I typically take a good flashlight, even for daytime use. A stick. A compass obviously. On the counter tracking side of it I'm going to hold off until I can get out and take some pictures. |
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Thank you for your service.
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[Last Edit: ReconB4]
[#1]
These are things I learned in some mil schools to include foreign schools and then a buttload of actually going out and doing it in a tactical environment. As far as gear, that's dependent on the mission and SOP. I can't think of something I'd carry for the soul purpose of tracking or counter tracking. The few things you listed would be carried anyway.
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NRA Law Enforcement Handgun Instructor
NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructor NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor US Army Sniper School |
[Last Edit: ReconB4]
[#3]
The Last Hundred Yards is one of my bibles, another book by Poole. I read it and used the proven techniques prior to Iran and Afghanistan while training my squad then employed those techniques in country. They work and they work well. Manuals such as the 7-8 and Ranger Handbook are good to give soldiers a foundation, but then The Land Hundred Yards takes those techniques and applies them to real world scenarios that actually happened and were used by soldiers in combat. That is a great book, but one that can't be fully understood unless you are already familiar with and proficient with the two manuals I mentioned, FM 7-8 and/or The Ranger Handbook.
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NRA Law Enforcement Handgun Instructor
NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructor NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor US Army Sniper School |
[#4]
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
The Last Hundred Yards is one of my bibles, another book by Poole. I read it and used the proven techniques prior to Iran and Afghanistan while training my squad then employed those techniques in country. They work and they work well. Manuals such as the 7-8 and Ranger Handbook are good to give soldiers a foundation, but then The Land Hundred Yards takes those techniques and applies them to real world scenarios that actually happened and were used by soldiers in combat. That is a great book, but one that can't be fully understood unless you are already familiar with and proficient with the two manuals I mentioned, FM 7-8 and/or The Ranger Handbook. View Quote He's put out some good books for sure.... |
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Ryan Miller LCPL USMC - Sept 14, 2006. Barwanah, Iraq
Adam P. Kennedy, Sgt USA - April 8, 2007. Diwaniyah, Iraq Mark R. Cannon, HM3 USN - October 2, 2007. Kunar, Afghanistan 11091 |
[#6]
Here is another one that specifically covers tracking and counter-tracking in urban environments and the Middle East:
Terrorist Trail |
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[#7]
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Roger that. His ability to learn the lessons from fighting against Asians in SEA seems to have really opened his eyes. I've spoken with him on the phone a few times at length. The thing that stuck out to me was how we believe our own organizational and cultural propaganda, which prevents us from seeing the ground truth. For example, I was raised to believe that the US military won all their battles in Vietnam, while the politicians lost the war. He says it's the opposite, because we were analyzing their actions based on our own doctrine. When a FOB was hit by an NVA Battalion, for example, we thought the main effort was the human wave attacks. When you study Asian doctrine, the human wave is often a cover for the real main effort, which is maybe 2-7 sappers crawling butt naked with satchels through your mined wire obstacle at night, while their support element puts mortar fire on the FOB a few clicks away from you to make you think they are getting ready to get hit, and you're ok. The sappers crawl in, place their charges on the Command bunker, ASP, mortar pits, M2 and M60 positions, then squirrel away. Then the mortars shift fire onto your FOB, and the charges go off, taking out your Command, Control, and Communications, as well as 85% of your true firepower, which you were trained to be so reliant on. Then the human wave assaults under cover of their SBF's, and Joe Tentpeg riflemen are left to defend the perimeter without belt-feds and mortars. Watching this, he learned to respect them as masterful adversaries, and took those lessons back to the States. He got nowhere as a Field Grade officer in trying to make change, so resigned his commission and took the rank of Gunnery Sergeant, and set up several different light infantry experimental centers in the Pacific, San Diego, and Lejeune. Most of his books are a massive J2, G2, and S2 dump that can be appreciated by the planners at those levels, as well as SGT Jones and his Squad getting ready to go out on counter-IED patrol or OP duty. If you're a professional soldier and don't have his books, you need to get them, especially The Last 100 Yards. He also has a new one out last year I just saw, called Afrique - A Warning for America http://www.posteritypress.org/images/9780981865904-cover.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
The Last Hundred Yards is one of my bibles, another book by Poole. I read it and used the proven techniques prior to Iran and Afghanistan while training my squad then employed those techniques in country. They work and they work well. Manuals such as the 7-8 and Ranger Handbook are good to give soldiers a foundation, but then The Land Hundred Yards takes those techniques and applies them to real world scenarios that actually happened and were used by soldiers in combat. That is a great book, but one that can't be fully understood unless you are already familiar with and proficient with the two manuals I mentioned, FM 7-8 and/or The Ranger Handbook. Roger that. His ability to learn the lessons from fighting against Asians in SEA seems to have really opened his eyes. I've spoken with him on the phone a few times at length. The thing that stuck out to me was how we believe our own organizational and cultural propaganda, which prevents us from seeing the ground truth. For example, I was raised to believe that the US military won all their battles in Vietnam, while the politicians lost the war. He says it's the opposite, because we were analyzing their actions based on our own doctrine. When a FOB was hit by an NVA Battalion, for example, we thought the main effort was the human wave attacks. When you study Asian doctrine, the human wave is often a cover for the real main effort, which is maybe 2-7 sappers crawling butt naked with satchels through your mined wire obstacle at night, while their support element puts mortar fire on the FOB a few clicks away from you to make you think they are getting ready to get hit, and you're ok. The sappers crawl in, place their charges on the Command bunker, ASP, mortar pits, M2 and M60 positions, then squirrel away. Then the mortars shift fire onto your FOB, and the charges go off, taking out your Command, Control, and Communications, as well as 85% of your true firepower, which you were trained to be so reliant on. Then the human wave assaults under cover of their SBF's, and Joe Tentpeg riflemen are left to defend the perimeter without belt-feds and mortars. Watching this, he learned to respect them as masterful adversaries, and took those lessons back to the States. He got nowhere as a Field Grade officer in trying to make change, so resigned his commission and took the rank of Gunnery Sergeant, and set up several different light infantry experimental centers in the Pacific, San Diego, and Lejeune. Most of his books are a massive J2, G2, and S2 dump that can be appreciated by the planners at those levels, as well as SGT Jones and his Squad getting ready to go out on counter-IED patrol or OP duty. If you're a professional soldier and don't have his books, you need to get them, especially The Last 100 Yards. He also has a new one out last year I just saw, called Afrique - A Warning for America http://www.posteritypress.org/images/9780981865904-cover.jpg In The Last Hundred Yards he talks often about using IDF as cover for blowing obstacles and actual HVT's. People will get down thinking it's just indirect when it's actually guys at the wire blowing it up. There's so much good information in there that can be used from the company level down, but mainly squad and platoon. |
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NRA Law Enforcement Handgun Instructor
NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructor NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor US Army Sniper School |
[#8]
I guess I am a little confused by your title then your equipment. Seems like you are mixing in navigation on new terrain also by including maps and photos? Flashlight you are on the right track but it is less about equipment on the tracking side and more about environmental knowledge. Counter tracking is a bit more about equipment but more about technique.
On tracking being familiar with your AOR so have the knowledge of: Soil types, how humidity, sun and wind affect the sign on those soils, approx. sunrise and sunset times for the time or year so you know when what critters and insects were active when you find their tracks over or under the persons foot sign you are following, what running and walking prints look like. Toe digs vs heel digs so you can tell when they were going backwards, impression depth to gauge the load they are carrying. Doing is better than reading. Counter tracking over varied terrain could involve a few more props, some field expedient and some brought. Typical amateur efforts would be a hasty "brush out" using a branch of some type, pretty easy to spot if you are looking. "Powder out" is harder, taking a jug or scooped amount of native soil/sand to cover your tracks crossing a road. Usual give away is color difference darker or lighter and impression absence. Crossing a heavily driven dirt road is best done by plank or if you can bring a cut piece of tire tread with you can restamp tread after crossing. Carpet squares and/or foam blocks strapped to feet is very hard to follow depending on terrain but still possible. Another trick that worked on me once was the fucker walked into a high foot traffic area and took a break, he then changed shoes and continued, cost me 20 mins to figure it out. Basically depending on environment you are looking at pattern (of lack of), color, blanching and texture. Dogs following and/or armed suspect tact track are different animals. |
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[#9]
US Border Patrol are some of the few people that actually do this on a regular basis in the US.
Nice to have someone that has actually done it chime in. |
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[#10]
You are correct sir. 2.5 weeks and I have my 20 years in. Waiting on election to decide what is next for me personally.
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[#11]
Originally Posted By SBPA:
You are correct sir. 2.5 weeks and I have my 20 years in. Waiting on election to decide what is next for me personally. View Quote Shame you have to base your retirement on our politics...thanks for your service and I wish I had the same understanding of this skill set as you do. I'm taking notes. |
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[#12]
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[#13]
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[#14]
Thank you and thanks to you as well sir. Saw your mil time above. I was USMC 85-89 and then local and state police before I went federal. Has been a fun ride with all the different thinks I have gotten to do and try.
The guy with the shoes was interesting. Night time and just a single in mountains above San Diego. Did three circles of the area after I could not find him leaving, then just picked the freshest sign that was leaving the area on top of the others and stayed on him. 90 mins later I got him, had the spare shoes in his pack. |
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[#15]
This is my kind of topic. Like was mentioned earlier practice is the primary teacher here i learned most of my tracking skills deer and hog hunting and sometimes it can be tricker than tracking people cause people are a bit more predictable during a "chase" (unless they have countertracking knowledge). But i am curious on counter tracking skills since im lacking in that department ive read alot on the methods but i cant seem to find good info on the "gear" to obscure boot/shoe tracks.
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[#16]
A camera.
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The strength of the pack is in the wolf, the strength of the wolf is in the pack
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[#17]
Originally Posted By assaultdog0351:
A camera. View Quote If your replying to my post im afraid you missunderstood. I know a camera is good for recording prints. What im looking for is tips to make mine less trackable. I tried the tricks in army manuels putting socks on over my boots and wrapping them in a towel but didnt like the results. gess i might be expecting too much |
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[Last Edit: assaultdog0351]
[#18]
Originally Posted By Woundedknee420:
If your replying to my post im afraid you missunderstood. I know a camera is good for recording prints. What im looking for is tips to make mine less trackable. I tried the tricks in army manuels putting socks on over my boots and wrapping them in a towel but didnt like the results. gess i might be expecting too much View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Woundedknee420:
Originally Posted By assaultdog0351:
A camera. If your replying to my post im afraid you missunderstood. I know a camera is good for recording prints. What im looking for is tips to make mine less trackable. I tried the tricks in army manuels putting socks on over my boots and wrapping them in a towel but didnt like the results. gess i might be expecting too much Sorry, that was for OP. I never really had to worry about counter tracking, but one thing I might suggest is looking at what kind of shoes the locals mostly wear and try to find a pair. Most of the people/vehicles I was able to track, even after hitting a high traffic area, had something unique about the tires or the soles of their jesus cruisers to put me back on the scent. |
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The strength of the pack is in the wolf, the strength of the wolf is in the pack
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[#19]
If you incorporate counter-tracking into your movement techniques, you should be thinking about every opportunity to go offensive on someone when they think they are the predator.
This mindset applies whether you are in an urban environment, in the Sonora Desert, the mountains, arctic, and jungle. A numerically-inferior force can wreak havoc on pursuers like a game if you always understand that you are the predator, not them. Hunting predatory dangerous game, wolves, and wise coyotes can teach you this and how to be good at it. At that point, do you really want your pursuer to not see your tracks? You can control them when you leave trace, and lead them right into a fistful of bloody nose, which is the oldest trick in the book. |
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[#20]
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
If you incorporate counter-tracking into your movement techniques, you should be thinking about every opportunity to go offensive on someone when they think they are the predator. This mindset applies whether you are in an urban environment, in the Sonora Desert, the mountains, arctic, and jungle. A numerically-inferior force can wreak havoc on pursuers like a game if you always understand that you are the predator, not them. Hunting predatory dangerous game, wolves, and wise coyotes can teach you this and how to be good at it. At that point, do you really want your pursuer to not see your tracks? You can control them when you leave trace, and lead them right into a fistful of bloody nose, which is the oldest trick in the book. View Quote That makes sense i never thought about it that way. I understand the counter tracking movements and practice them when i can but the idea of leaving an obvious trail to lure them in never dawned on me. |
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[#21]
My candidate won. We are already getting inquiries as of last Thursday on what we need to get back to our business. Thank you for your votes America!
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