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Posted: 12/15/2020 11:38:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049293 That is the FL die that I use. Can I do what you're saying just with that? This is starting to hurt my brain.  Yes..,.,if you can grind the top of your shell holder a bit so the case can get pushed up into your die a bit deeper...You can try a different shell holder but you need one that allows the case to get pushed deeper up into the die so it moves the wall back..its not much .003-.005" it sounds like...I have a thread in this reloading forum that shows using all the parts and pieces we have been talking about if you want to go look thru it..might better help you see exactly whats happening... https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/My-long-range-reloading-process-/10-8957/ |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 12:07:10 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Yes..,.,if you can grind the top of your shell holder a bit so the case can get pushed up into your die a bit deeper...You can try a different shell holder but you need one that allows the case to get pushed deeper up into the die so it moves the wall back..its not much .003-.005" it sounds like...I have a thread in this reloading forum that shows using all the parts and pieces we have been talking about if you want to go look thru it..might better help you see exactly whats happening... https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/My-long-range-reloading-process-/10-8957/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049293 That is the FL die that I use. Can I do what you're saying just with that? This is starting to hurt my brain. Yes..,.,if you can grind the top of your shell holder a bit so the case can get pushed up into your die a bit deeper...You can try a different shell holder but you need one that allows the case to get pushed deeper up into the die so it moves the wall back..its not much .003-.005" it sounds like...I have a thread in this reloading forum that shows using all the parts and pieces we have been talking about if you want to go look thru it..might better help you see exactly whats happening... https://www.ar15.com/forums/precision-rifles/My-long-range-reloading-process-/10-8957/ Came here to post this. The shell holder can make or break the sizing. I have a 416 Barrett that I can only size with one specific shellholder that's shorter. |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 11:03:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049293 That is the FL die that I use. Can I do what you're saying just with that? This is starting to hurt my brain. That die should be bumping the shoulder back plenty. I would measure your bump before worrying about grinding anything. And yes you can use that die as a body die if you just take the bushing and decaping pin out. Did you find the other button? The small black one? |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 2:18:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Thank you guys.
I read all posts, and I decided (for my own sanity) to take a video and a few pictures of what i am experiencing.  Failed To Load Title  Failed To Load Title  Failed To Load Title  Failed To Load Title   
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Posted: 12/16/2020 3:52:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKSnowRider]
[#5]
OP, what does the extractor in the end of the bolt look like? I took these pics out of one of your videos, As the bolt goes forward, the case looks like its inside the bolt as it should be, but the further in it goes the more it jumps out of the bolt face and looks like it cocks so much it binds the case in the chamber...
 Attached File Attached File Attached FileAlso, have you tried different magazines? same results with everyone? |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 3:53:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: OP, what does the extractor in the end of the bolt look like? I took these pics out of one of your videos, As the bolt goes forward, the case looks like its inside the bolt as it should be, but the further in it goes the more it jumps out of the bolt face and looks like it cocks so much it binds the case in the chamber... I will take a picture tomorrow and post it. |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 3:57:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: I will take a picture tomorrow and post it. Can you also post a pic of the magazine with at least 2 or 3 cases stacked in it..curious if the feed lips aren't aligned right and its got the bullet shifted to one side or the other... |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 4:02:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Can you also post a pic of the magazine with at least 2 or 3 cases stacked in it..curious if the feed lips aren't aligned right and its got the bullet shifted to one side or the other... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: I will take a picture tomorrow and post it. Can you also post a pic of the magazine with at least 2 or 3 cases stacked in it..curious if the feed lips aren't aligned right and its got the bullet shifted to one side or the other... The magazine is internal, not a detachable. I dont use it. I can still put them in it though. |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 4:08:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: The magazine is internal, not a detachable. I dont use it. I can still put them in it though. AH, makes sense...Watching the videos at .25 speed, it sure looks like the case pops out of the bolt face as it goes into the chamber...That why I wonder if its the extractor, long AOL loads function but a short AOL loads get bound up...the extra length of the longer loads stops the case from being able to twist far enough to get bound up... |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 4:34:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: AH, makes sense...Watching the videos at .25 speed, it sure looks like the case pops out of the bolt face as it goes into the chamber...That why I wonder if its the extractor, long AOL loads function but a short AOL loads get bound up...the extra length of the longer loads stops the case from being able to twist far enough to get bound up... The 700 isn’t a controlled feed. The bolt doesn’t get full control of the round till you close the bolt and the extractor clip goes over the case rim. |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 5:49:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperJlarge: The 700 isn’t a controlled feed. The bolt doesn’t get full control of the round till you close the bolt and the extractor clip goes over the case rim. Yes, I understand that...but something looks wrong with the way the case twist as it chambers, right to the point that it stops chambering and locks up... Also, where the case is jamming in his pictures, its not into the chamber far enough to be a sizing issue..It has to be a feeding issue... I just dug out the boys .308 model 7..feeding it an empty brass it slides right into the chamber and the case head never comes outside the edge of the bolt like his pictures show... This is a model 7 .308 ....  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 12/16/2020 6:42:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Take the case that when you close the bolt it goes crooked and place it into the chamber by hand and then push the bolt home and see if it chambers.
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:28:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Take the case that when you close the bolt it goes crooked and place it into the chamber by hand and then push the bolt home and see if it chambers. They all close. Where it gets stuck is the movement of the bolt pushing the brass. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:58:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: They all close. Where it gets stuck is the movement of the bolt pushing the brass. Ok so your sizing is fine. It's the feeding from the internal mag/single load that's the issue. Does it do it with a bullet in the case? Can you make a dummy round with your sized brass and try it. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:59:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Ok so your sizing is fine. It's the feeding from the internal mag/single load that's the issue. Does it do it with a bullet in the case? Can you make a dummy round with your sized brass and try it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: They all close. Where it gets stuck is the movement of the bolt pushing the brass. Ok so your sizing is fine. It's the feeding from the internal mag/single load that's the issue. Does it do it with a bullet in the case? Can you make a dummy round with your sized brass and try it. Yup, it does it with a bullet in the case as well. I first noticed it when I was at the range. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 10:11:18 AM EDT
[#16]
Does it do it if you push the round down in the magazine? Or just when you set it on top to single load? Have you ever fully loaded it and did a function check?
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Posted: 12/17/2020 10:14:54 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Does it do it if you push the round down in the magazine? Or just when you set it on top to single load? Have you ever fully loaded it and did a function check? I never use the internal mag.
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Posted: 12/17/2020 10:18:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Worth a try as it seems like a bolt feed geometry issue and not a cartridge sizing issue.
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Posted: 12/17/2020 10:19:55 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Worth a try as it seems like a bolt feed geometry issue and not a cartridge sizing issue. I've had this rifle for 17 years. Only thing different is changing of the barrel, stock and a trued action. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 10:41:03 AM EDT
[#20]
That's a lot of change that could have changed the way the round feeds from a single load. Have you looked at getting a single load shelf? Like below or similar.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004707470 |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 12:41:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Worth a try as it seems like a bolt feed geometry issue and not a cartridge sizing issue. Did truing the action or new barrel change anything? It never did it with the .308. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 3:10:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Possibly. Tough to say definitely one way or the other but if it worked before you got it rebarreled and doesn't now then it seems like something changed to effect it. If you only single load maybe try the single feed ramp above and see if it works.
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Posted: 12/17/2020 3:18:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Possibly. Tough to say definitely one way or the other but if it worked before you got it rebarreled and doesn't now then it seems like something changed to effect it. If you only single load maybe try the single feed ramp above and see if it works. Apart from switching to the single feed ramp, is it worth taking to a smith to have it looked at? |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 3:25:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Apart from switching to the single feed ramp, is it worth taking to a smith to have it looked at? Possibly if it bothers you. The smith that did the work local? If so then I would bring it to them. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 4:38:52 PM EDT
[#25]
    As to what the bolt fact looks like. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 4:51:04 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/20201217_105202-1735784.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/20201217_105218-1735785.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/20201217_105318-1735786.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/38790/20201217_105309-1735787.jpg As to what the bolt fact looks like. Doesn't look horrible, looks like there is a buildup on the extractor, wouldn't hurt to clean that up...I think your issues are a feed issue with the barrel and how cartridges interact with it now...As suggested, if it was a local smith I would take the rifle and both the ammo that causes issues and ammo that loads fine and let him have a look at it..He might need to massage on it.... |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:05:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ziarifleman]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Did truing the action or new barrel change anything? It never did it with the .308. Your .308 had fatter blunter bullets. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:07:57 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: That's a lot of change that could have changed the way the round feeds from a single load. Have you looked at getting a single load shelf? Like below or similar. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1004707470 I would get the Score High version myself. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 9:22:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: I would get the Score High version myself. Why I said like below or similar. Never used one but needed an example for him. Not a recommendation of that model. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 11:36:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Why I said like below or similar. Never used one but needed an example for him. Not a recommendation of that model. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Originally Posted By ziarifleman: I would get the Score High version myself. Why I said like below or similar. Never used one but needed an example for him. Not a recommendation of that model. Understood. The PTG thing, you have to take the gun apart, remove the magazine body, spring and follower, and then glue the thing into the bottom of the receiver. Score High's just sits on top of the magazine follower. And I think you're on the right track with the feeding issue stemming from how the cartridge is being presented in the feedway. |
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Posted: 12/17/2020 11:52:57 PM EDT
[#31]
So, is this a sizing issue, a bullet issue or a gun issue?
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Posted: 12/18/2020 12:11:50 AM EDT
[#32]
You know, all this time I thought you were having trouble feeding a case with a bullet in it. I should have watched your videos...
I wouldn't worry even one little bit about if a rifle fed an empty case. Does it feed with a bullet in it? |
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Posted: 12/18/2020 2:31:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: You know, all this time I thought you were having trouble feeding a case with a bullet in it. I should have watched your videos... I wouldn't worry even one little bit about if a rifle fed an empty case. Does it feed with a bullet in it? It does the same thing. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 7:48:07 PM EDT
[#34]
Friend of mine came over and we dismantled it..
The floor plate on the internal magazine has a slight tilt downwards, and as the bolt pushes forwards so does the round.. downwards. Hence the issue I am having. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 8:03:16 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Friend of mine came over and we dismantled it.. The floor plate on the internal magazine has a slight tilt downwards, and as the bolt pushes forwards so does the round.. downwards. Hence the issue I am having. Nice, glad you figured it out OP...Gonna replace the spring ? |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 9:40:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Nice, glad you figured it out OP...Gonna replace the spring ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Friend of mine came over and we dismantled it.. The floor plate on the internal magazine has a slight tilt downwards, and as the bolt pushes forwards so does the round.. downwards. Hence the issue I am having. Nice, glad you figured it out OP...Gonna replace the spring ? I invested in a MPA chassis. Should be shipped in a month. So, I'll skip any fixes. |
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Posted: 12/19/2020 11:09:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: I invested in a MPA chassis. Should be shipped in a month. So, I'll skip any fixes. Nice, which one..and what all did you get with it.... 
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Posted: 12/20/2020 10:44:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Rob01]
[#38]
Glad you found the issue and that it's not your loading process. A new stock/chassis is a good choice and now with the AICS mags you can load longer as well. You might need to notch the feed ramp on the receiver though which is easy.
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Posted: 12/20/2020 11:24:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Nice, which one..and what all did you get with it.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AKSnowRider: Originally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: I invested in a MPA chassis. Should be shipped in a month. So, I'll skip any fixes. Nice, which one..and what all did you get with it.... Matrix. I didn't op for the NV rail. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 11:25:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01: Glad you found the issue and that it's not your loading process. A new stock/chassis is a good choice and not with the AICS mags you can load longer as well. You might need to notch the feed ramp on the receiver though which is easy. Thanks for the help. |
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Posted: 12/20/2020 2:03:48 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VooDoo3dfx: Matrix. I didn't op for the NV rail. Yeah, I don't run the NV rail on my BA chassis, if I do I have to pull the sunshade off the scope..Let us know how you like it when you get it..their stuff is very nice.. 
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