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Posted: 6/11/2016 10:06:23 AM EDT
Okay I have been wanting to build an AR that is almost for 3 gun. I only have one requirement that the barrel be 14.5" pinned to 16 inch. The parts that I have so far that I want to put into the build are a Lancer lower and a YHM QD brake. Everything else is up in the air (caliber, weight, Optics, rail, trigger, piston, gas, etc). Please feel free to share pics of your builds along with suggestions. Thanks!
edit. I was thinking a a hand guard that extended to the brake would be good. what do you think? |
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Posted: 6/9/2016 9:30:15 PM EDT
[#1]
My 3 gun rifle is a BCM 14.5 with 13 inch kmr, MBT trigger, Vortex Viper PST 1-4 in a larue mount. Nothing special for 3 gun but it works. I recommend you put this in the 3 gun nation (button at top right of the page) forum because you'll probably get better answers. Good luck!
ETA: Yes most people use extended rails. A lot of the top shooters recommend a longer barrel (18 inch) and rifle length DI gas system. 1-4 and 1-6 optics are the most common from what I have seen. I have used a red dot at one match and a scope at another. It all depends on the distance at the matches you shoot. ETA2: Caliber and optic will ultimately depend on your class. |
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Posted: 6/9/2016 10:47:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 3 gun rifle is a BCM 14.5 with 13 inch kmr, MBT trigger, Vortex Viper PST 1-4 in a larue mount. Nothing special for 3 gun but it works. I recommend you put this in the 3 gun nation (button at top right of the page) forum because you'll probably get better answers. Good luck! ETA: Yes most people use extended rails. A lot of the top shooters recommend a longer barrel (18 inch) and rifle length DI gas system. 1-4 and 1-6 optics are the most common from what I have seen. I have used a red dot at one match and a scope at another. It all depends on the distance at the matches you shoot. ETA2: Caliber and optic will ultimately depend on your class. I was looking at the Vortex optics and Nikon the 1 x 4 or 6 seems to be the way to go rather than a red dot. thanks |
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Posted: 6/9/2016 10:56:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was looking at the Vortex optics and Nikon the 1 x 4 or 6 seems to be the way to go rather than a red dot. thanks Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My 3 gun rifle is a BCM 14.5 with 13 inch kmr, MBT trigger, Vortex Viper PST 1-4 in a larue mount. Nothing special for 3 gun but it works. I recommend you put this in the 3 gun nation (button at top right of the page) forum because you'll probably get better answers. Good luck! ETA: Yes most people use extended rails. A lot of the top shooters recommend a longer barrel (18 inch) and rifle length DI gas system. 1-4 and 1-6 optics are the most common from what I have seen. I have used a red dot at one match and a scope at another. It all depends on the distance at the matches you shoot. ETA2: Caliber and optic will ultimately depend on your class. I was looking at the Vortex optics and Nikon the 1 x 4 or 6 seems to be the way to go rather than a red dot. thanks If you are on a budget a lot of people use the vortex strike eagle 1-6 or primary arms 1-6. They are made in the same factory just a different reticle. |
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Posted: 6/9/2016 11:21:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I would suggest at least a 16" mid....you need a good trigger, but you are going to be moving and shooting on the move, so keep the pull reasonable and safe... a matched bolt carrier mass, buffer and spring, and muzzle brake to help reduce "scope shake"...a pinned brake doesn't allow you to experiment..slim full float tube without anything on the tube except a vertical fore grip if you desire a mono pod... most matches don't require a sling, though have one available...if you choose a fixed power scope, a roll over sight for up close is a good idea... shoot your rifle, and know your hold overs if you don't have a range finding reticle....for big matches, have some quality ammunition... a 10" MGM flash target at 300m is a tougher shot than a LaRue at 400m... you will go through many evolutions in you quest... my primary doesn't look pretty, but works
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Posted: 6/9/2016 11:53:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would suggest at least a 16" mid....you need a good trigger, but you are going to be moving and shooting on the move, so keep the pull reasonable and safe... a matched bolt carrier mass, buffer and spring, and muzzle brake to help reduce "scope shake"...a pinned brake doesn't allow you to experiment..slim full float tube without anything on the tube except a vertical fore grip if you desire a mono pod... most matches don't require a sling, though have one available...if you choose a fixed power scope, a roll over sight for up close is a good idea... shoot your rifle, and know your hold overs if you don't have a range finding reticle....for big matches, have some quality ammunition... a 10" MGM flash target at 300m is a tougher shot than a LaRue at 400m... you will go through many evolutions in you quest... my primary doesn't look pretty, but works <a href="http://s825.photobucket.com/user/LesSnyder/media/002_zpsp47fkyuj.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz180/LesSnyder/002_zpsp47fkyuj.jpg</a> Not really tech but, your flag is on backwards. Should of put it on other side. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 12:05:20 AM EDT
[#6]
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference.
I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 12:53:28 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference. I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. What trigger would you recommend? |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:26:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would suggest at least a 16" mid....you need a good trigger, but you are going to be moving and shooting on the move, so keep the pull reasonable and safe... a matched bolt carrier mass, buffer and spring, and muzzle brake to help reduce "scope shake"...a pinned brake doesn't allow you to experiment..slim full float tube without anything on the tube except a vertical fore grip if you desire a mono pod... most matches don't require a sling, though have one available...if you choose a fixed power scope, a roll over sight for up close is a good idea... shoot your rifle, and know your hold overs if you don't have a range finding reticle....for big matches, have some quality ammunition... a 10" MGM flash target at 300m is a tougher shot than a LaRue at 400m... you will go through many evolutions in you quest... my primary doesn't look pretty, but works Concur. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:32:17 AM EDT
[#9]
16" intermediate gas barrel, a big brake, low mass BCG setup, adjustable gas block, and a 1-6 optic. Check out BrianEnos.com it's the arfcom of competitive shooting. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 9:43:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Why are you set on a 14.5"? Most 3-Gun rifles are 18" now-days.
A pinned muzzle device won't allow you to try new brakes and find one that works. Carbine length gas system isn't going to run as smooth. Lower muzzle velocity is going to give you a steeper trajectory making hits and range more difficult, especially if your range estimation is off. Less velocity means less energy to do things like roll the spinner. Some 3-Gun comps have power factor floors and it'll be more difficult to reach it with a 14.5". 16" with a mid-length gas system should really be the minimum. 18" with rifle gas and an adjustable gas block is ideal. I went with an 18" Faxon Gunner on my latest build and I'm very happy. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with a 20". Then again, I'm shooting matches that routinely go out to 500 meters and have a power factor floor. So some of this may not apply to you. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 10:32:07 AM EDT
[#11]
I agree that a 16"-18" would be a better option, and go with the longest gas system you can find for that barrel length (18" rifle gas works very well). For caliber, you want a 5.56/223, don't even bother looking at any others.
In my opinion, if you're building a 3 gun rifle: Required parts: Quality barrel, capable of 1 MOA with good ammo. Good, aftermarket trigger Free float handguard of your choice Muzzle brake or compensator Recommended parts, if you have the budget: Low mass BCG Low mass buffer Adjustable gas block All the other parts (stock, upper, lower, etc) are personal preference. As for an optic, a 1-4 or 1-6 is the best all around option, but you can also use a red dot or irons, depending on what division you want to shoot in. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 11:27:31 AM EDT
[#12]
Couple of other things to add:
Yes... A 1-4X or 1-6X with daylight visible illumination is ideal. Check out the Burris 1-5X XTR II. The Strike Eagle is also good bang for the buck. Don't even consider anything other than 5.56. Longer hand guard is mo' betta' for shooting offhand. While I like piston guns, my 3-gun rifles are DI. Granted, I've run piston guns in 3-gun and it's not an issue. DI is just a little lighter. If you're looking for a piston for 3-Gun, give the Adams Arms EVO Ultra-light a hard look. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 11:56:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What trigger would you recommend? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference. I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. What trigger would you recommend? I went from a Geissele Super 3 Gun to a Hiperfire 24C. I like the Hiperfire more. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:50:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are you set on a 14.5"? Most 3-Gun rifles are 18" now-days. A pinned muzzle device won't allow you to try new brakes and find one that works. Carbine length gas system isn't going to run as smooth. Lower muzzle velocity is going to give you a steeper trajectory making hits and range more difficult, especially if your range estimation is off. Less velocity means less energy to do things like roll the spinner. Some 3-Gun comps have power factor floors and it'll be more difficult to reach it with a 14.5". 16" with a mid-length gas system should really be the minimum. 18" with rifle gas and an adjustable gas block is ideal. I went with an 18" Faxon Gunner on my latest build and I'm very happy. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably go with a 20". Then again, I'm shooting matches that routinely go out to 500 meters and have a power factor floor. So some of this may not apply to you. Most of the matches I shoot do not go out passed 300 yds so the 14.5 inch barrel really isnt that big of a factor. I like shorter barrels but hate the power loss so a 14.5 pinned was my own self compromise. I already have a brake I want to use which has worked well on my other rifles. I had eyed the Faxon gunner barrels for weight reduction. All other things are noted. Thanks. It looks like there is a starting consensus on the optic, caliber, gas system & length which is good. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:52:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that a 16"-18" would be a better option, and go with the longest gas system you can find for that barrel length (18" rifle gas works very well). For caliber, you want a 5.56/223, don't even bother looking at any others. In my opinion, if you're building a 3 gun rifle: Required parts: Quality barrel, capable of 1 MOA with good ammo. Good, aftermarket trigger Free float handguard of your choice Muzzle brake or compensator Recommended parts, if you have the budget: Low mass BCG Low mass buffer Adjustable gas block All the other parts (stock, upper, lower, etc) are personal preference. As for an optic, a 1-4 or 1-6 is the best all around option, but you can also use a red dot or irons, depending on what division you want to shoot in. What are your recommendations on the low mass stuff? Ie which bcg and gas block? |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 2:53:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I went from a Geissele Super 3 Gun to a Hiperfire 24C. I like the Hiperfire more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference. I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. What trigger would you recommend? I went from a Geissele Super 3 Gun to a Hiperfire 24C. I like the Hiperfire more. Is the hiperfire faster imo? |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 7:58:43 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is the hiperfire faster imo? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference. I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. What trigger would you recommend? I went from a Geissele Super 3 Gun to a Hiperfire 24C. I like the Hiperfire more. Is the hiperfire faster imo? The Geissele probably had the fastest splits, but there were times when I wouldn't let it fully reset and I would stutter on the second shot. The short travel of the 24c solved that problem. |
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Posted: 6/10/2016 9:42:26 PM EDT
[#18]
What kind of muzzle breaks are you guys running? How is the BCM?
What about gas blocks? |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 7:52:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Geissele probably had the fastest splits, but there were times when I wouldn't let it fully reset and I would stutter on the second shot. The short travel of the 24c solved that problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Get a good trigger, good 1-6 scope and a decent barrel. The rest is just personal preference. I'd recommend the longest handguard you can get away with. What trigger would you recommend? I went from a Geissele Super 3 Gun to a Hiperfire 24C. I like the Hiperfire more. Is the hiperfire faster imo? The Geissele probably had the fastest splits, but there were times when I wouldn't let it fully reset and I would stutter on the second shot. The short travel of the 24c solved that problem. Good to know. I have never owned either trigger. Thanks |
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Posted: 6/11/2016 10:04:30 PM EDT
[#20]
OP: Have you actually shot a 3-Gun match yet? If not, I suggest you go and shoot a few before deciding on your build. Any AR15 will do to get started - the minutiae of the configuration won't hold you back. If you already shoot 3-Gun, then you need to tell us what KIND of matches you shoot the most... the optimal rifle for an open terrain match will be very different from one intended for bay stages. For example, the 14.5" barrel you indicate you want suffers significant velocity drop-off versus a 16", and will hurt you in many 3-Gun matches.
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Posted: 6/14/2016 2:00:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP: Have you actually shot a 3-Gun match yet? If not, I suggest you go and shoot a few before deciding on your build. Any AR15 will do to get started - the minutiae of the configuration won't hold you back. If you already shoot 3-Gun, then you need to tell us what KIND of matches you shoot the most... the optimal rifle for an open terrain match will be very different from one intended for bay stages. For example, the 14.5" barrel you indicate you want suffers significant velocity drop-off versus a 16", and will hurt you in many 3-Gun matches. Most are bay stages with a max of 200-300 yds on a few stages. I've shot 3 gun alot only I have no real build for the match. |
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Posted: 6/15/2016 1:44:24 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most are bay stages with a max of 200-300 yds on a few stages. I've shot 3 gun alot only I have no real build for the match. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
OP: Have you actually shot a 3-Gun match yet? If not, I suggest you go and shoot a few before deciding on your build. Any AR15 will do to get started - the minutiae of the configuration won't hold you back. If you already shoot 3-Gun, then you need to tell us what KIND of matches you shoot the most... the optimal rifle for an open terrain match will be very different from one intended for bay stages. For example, the 14.5" barrel you indicate you want suffers significant velocity drop-off versus a 16", and will hurt you in many 3-Gun matches. Most are bay stages with a max of 200-300 yds on a few stages. I've shot 3 gun alot only I have no real build for the match. Then 14.5" is too short IMHO. Go with 16" midlength or 18" rifle length gas. 15" FF handguard of your choice/budget. 5.56 caliber obviously. Direct gas impingement. Everything else comes down to taste. |
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Posted: 6/16/2016 10:47:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then 14.5" is too short IMHO. Go with 16" midlength or 18" rifle length gas. 15" FF handguard of your choice/budget. 5.56 caliber obviously. Direct gas impingement. Everything else comes down to taste. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
OP: Have you actually shot a 3-Gun match yet? If not, I suggest you go and shoot a few before deciding on your build. Any AR15 will do to get started - the minutiae of the configuration won't hold you back. If you already shoot 3-Gun, then you need to tell us what KIND of matches you shoot the most... the optimal rifle for an open terrain match will be very different from one intended for bay stages. For example, the 14.5" barrel you indicate you want suffers significant velocity drop-off versus a 16", and will hurt you in many 3-Gun matches. Most are bay stages with a max of 200-300 yds on a few stages. I've shot 3 gun alot only I have no real build for the match. Then 14.5" is too short IMHO. Go with 16" midlength or 18" rifle length gas. 15" FF handguard of your choice/budget. 5.56 caliber obviously. Direct gas impingement. Everything else comes down to taste. Okay I'll reconsider my barrel length but if I do go with a 16" middy I want to make the rifle light. So far this is what thinking cal 556 Lancer lower (because I have it) YHM muzzle brake (because I already have it) DS arms upper Pencil or gunner light weight mid length barrel (looking at faxon) Lightweight BAD gas block or a superlative arms adjustable block V7 Ti BCG american defense scope mount Vortex strike eagle optic BAD sabertube stock LPK (lightweight V7 stuff mixed with KNS and BAD stuff) Flip up magpul BUIS (probably the polymer ones for weight) Ergo deluxe grip The hand guard rail is still up in the air but I want something light (prefer key mod but I'm open to anything) but covers the barrel up to the muzzle. I have been eyeing the SLR rifle works and BCM handguards. |
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Posted: 6/16/2016 12:22:14 PM EDT
[#24]
BUIS are a waste of time, money and weight... delete them. If you want light weight, you need to ruthlessly excise anything you do not absolutely need.
I built a lightweight for my son. Faxon Gunner 16" midlength barrel. Carbon fiber handguard. The rifle is agreeably light. Probably the biggest weight saving came from the fact that he still likes the old Weaver V3 scope he has been running for years (with young eyes, he sees no need for more magnification). This svelte 1" tube scope is a HUGE weight saving compared with the bloated 30mm 1-6x options most people run: 
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Posted: 6/20/2016 11:39:51 AM EDT
[#25]
18" with rifle length gas tube
free float good trigger good brake - the Jerry Miculek is cheap and effective good optics with a proper mount that moves the scope forward enough to get a proper cheekweld and stance that's it 
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Posted: 6/26/2016 10:34:04 AM EDT
[#26]
Do you have a suppressor that you also plan to use on this rifle?
If not, I would delete that YHM QD brake. There are far more effective offerings on the market. Miculek brake, Nordic corvette, JP, SJC Titan... etc. I would avoid the additional cost of all the V7 titanium stuff and put that savings into optics or dedicated 3-gun parts like a JP LMOS carrier, and an adjustable gas block. I wouldn't go pencil for a 3-gun build, Faxon Gunner/medium contour is a good balance. 18 with rifle gas is very good but if you are weight conscious a 16 mid is fine as well. Spending an extra $300 on various small sundry titanium parts is a waste IMHO. You are probably only going to be holding the rifle for 45 seconds at a time if not less, and a superlight rifle is more 'nervous' when you are trying to settle in for a longer range shot from an improvised position. Forget BUIS. I don't think I would like that stock you mentioned, looks way too minimalist for my taste. But that is definitely shooter preference. |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 11:30:18 PM EDT
[#27]
Seriously get a JP 15 upper with LMOS and The new Burris 1-4 MTAC with the upside down horseshoe reticle. Throw a JP or Hellfire single stage trigger with the grip and stock of your choice and don't look back. I would actually get the whole rifle put together from JP and add the scope and get out shooting. I have 2 now and have yet to shoot anything better.
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Posted: 11/3/2016 6:55:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Hey everyone if your looking to snag up a low mass carrier, head over to www.rubbercityarmory.com and enter IWANTLOWMASS for the coupon code and get $50 OFF any Titanium Carrier or Titanium Complete BCG!
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Posted: 11/14/2016 9:58:52 AM EDT
[#29]
Any updates?
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