I'll only comment on build quality/QA and to a lesser extent, the RV "tech".

I am currently living in a 28' forest river hemisphere bunkhouse.

I understand that it's not a $1,000,000 motorhome but I don't think it's necessarily bottom tier.

Imagine all of the horror stories that you hear about shoddy home construction in big tract housing neighborhoods. Now imagine all of the horror stories that you have heard about automotive aftermarket installers.

Now merge these two together and toss in trying to keep weight down to a point where single screws are being used to hold drawer slides in and you'll have an idea of the construction quality to expect in an RV.

Cabinets are made from what appears to be something between dense cardboard and MDF, but most of it is only a little over 1/8" thick. The floor is the same ~1/8" material but there's a bottom layer, an inch and a half or so of foam, then two layers of the 1/8" "wood" stuff and then the linoleum.(the wood stuff reminds me of door skin like on a hollow core interior door).  

Most of the supply side plumbing seems decent and it's PEX, so it's easy enough to fix if you can locate and access the leak. I had to alter the bathroom sink plumbing on the second day we were in this thing because the builder ran PEX all the way to the faucet and the PEX was too rigid to allow it to meet up with the faucet straight enough to seal.  I chopped the PEX back and installed some shark bite stop valves, flex hoses and a $27 metal faucet from home Depot. I keep a couple of straight shark bite fittings and a couple of shark bite caps so I can make expedient repairs as needed.

The "RV tech" that introduced me to the trailer had "look on the manufacturer's website" and "you can probably find a video on YouTube to show you" as answers for most of the questions I had about things like retracting the slide, awning and stabilizer jacks if the motors failed or about what accessories were ok to add to the rear bumper. As a former mechanic and a person who has a bit of diy residential plumbing experience, I'm pretty comfortable fixing what will need to be fixed on ours. I felt like I was more experienced than the "tech".  Your experience will hopefully differ from mine.

On the surface, that seems like a fair deal. As long as there isn’t any water damage, or it’s minimal. Check the roof decking (you can walk the roof if you’re brave), check inside the cabinets for soft walls, and look at every bit of flooring you can. My only real concern with one of that age is replacement parts could be a little tough to get.

1) your guess is as good as mine, but I have a feeling there will absolutely be a softening that will affect dealers and catch some of them with their pants down.

2) You can find RVIA inspectors that work independently of the dealer to do an inspection.

If you’re handy you can take care of a huge number of issues that you see people complaining about on the forums. I wish quality control was better across the board, but from a business standpoint I kinda sorta almost understand why it can’t be. I’m fortunate that the company I work for has a facility in Elkhart where our towables are looked over for issues before they’re shipped out 500-1500 miles to the individual stores. Seems to really make a difference when they arrive.

@GTOMike87

Great thread and thank you for your time and responses thus far.  I'm currently negotiating with a dealer for a new 2022 Grand Design 2800BH with 2 A/C units. Dealer's opening price is at about 44k including all fees and taxes. What is a realistic price should my counter offer be? What's a good price for this trailer? Dealer is in SC.

Any insight would be appreciated.

@GTOMike87

We are getting ready to pull the trigger on one. Who would you recommend for financing?  10% down and excellent credit.

Depending on what the MSRP is, that may be pretty decent. I’d shoot for a little lower if I were on your side of the table, just to see if you can. I have five 2800BHs on my lot right now in Virginia, so they’re out there and your  dealer knows that.

Any of the top tier financing companies like Bank of the West, Bank of America, M&T, Bank of the Ozarks, etc… will probable have similar rates and terms. I’d recommend more down if you can swing it, that little extra equity can help secure a better rate.

Thanks for the info, GTO.

I thought BoA only did RV financing thru dealerships?

MSRP is about $56k.  I got them to throw in a Blue Ox SwayPro and a couple minor freebies and ended up deciding to buy. We pick it up next weekend. Time to shop for all the goodies that go along with it!

Thanks for the response. If I was closer to your dealership I would have paid a visit.

Great thread!   Sorry it its already been asked and answered:  Are prices trending down at all yet?      Is inventory trending up?

I think you did pretty well, and If I were in your shoes I’d stay local too. Enjoy your new toy!

I wouldn’t say prices are trending down too much, but discounts off MSRP are returning to normal levels for the most part. What we’re seeing is that the cost increases from the manufacturers offset those discounts though. So what someone paid last year might be the same as they’re paying this year, but we’re making less.

There are still some products that are in limited supply but for the most part (especially towables) we’re able to get pretty much anything.

Generators and Ford chassis remain an issue for the manufacturers, and my understanding is that those will remain a problem for a while.

NRVIA dot org

So this question is essentially, “Is it better to buy and remodel a 2003 rv because they’re better made…or buy a used newer 2021 rv?”

Background:
I am looking to buy my first rv. My wife and I have narrowed it down to the 202rd Coleman model based on the floor plan and the size/weight limitations because I currently drive a 1/2 ton Tundra. Those should run $20-25k.

A friend has offered this 2003 r vision trail cruiser 26qbh for $5k because he’s grown out of it. Everything is functional and working well, but it needs new tires and some tlc. (I haven’t seen it yet but it’s probably all cosmetic.)

If 2003s were better made and it has lasted 20 years with him, I’m wondering if it’s better to buy and gut/remodel the 2003 vs the 2021, because they are more cheaply made now. I’d be willing to put $10k into the remodel.

Thoughts? (I know it’s a difficult question because I don’t know everything I’ll have to fix.) Let’s just assume I want to gut and replace the cabinetry, etc. I would need to hire someone to do the remodel.

I’d skew towards the newer model. I’m not of the opinion that all of the older stuff was better made, but besides that the biggest question is the unknowns. If you pull a cabinet out and find that there has been water damage, you may be looking at a much more expensive and longer term repair process than originally envisioned. If you were to only put $10k additional money into this rig, you’d still be left with an asset that’s not worth nearly what you’ve invested.

Looking at buying an rv soon .it’ll get used very regularly, but not moved around much . Probably 2 trips a year . One of the trips is about  5k miles round trip .  I’m not sure if that’s considered a lot, if normal for his folks use them . Couple questions based on that

1. Is an aluminum frame /fiberglass skin sturdier? I don’t mind spending more if quality is better
2. Is there any factory trailers that have on demand water heaters? Seems like a no brainer, but I haven’t seen any yet
3. Ideally I’m looking at 28ish ft, single slide bunkhouse model . Do you have any suggestions for highest quality/longevity? Or are they all pretty much the same

An on demand water heater sized for a shower would pull too much power for an rv to handle

You can buy a propane on demand heater off of Amazon for like $500, iirc. They make a direct replacement for the model of your water heater.

Some people have said that they are finicky about water flow.

I have thought about it, but I don't think they'd be a good fit for us in the RV we have now.

I hate the shower to the point where I look forward to a campground that has showers, even if they're less than awesome because of the size and configuration of our shower. They'll work in a pinch to get clean, but it's not an enjoyable experience. Also, there's 5 of us and the grey tank fills up fast enough when we're limited to ~4-5 minutes each.

If you have just a couple of people and a big tank, it might be worth it. If you're going to be in full hookup spots all the time, they'll probably have better showers than your RV anyway.

Adequate space for the ducting of a propane fired instant water heater would be an issue in an RV.  That would probably require at least a double wall vent.  

You could install an electric instant heater but it would be a small one and would not keep w/ demand very well.

RV specific, LP on demand water heater

Water is the most destructive things for RVs, especially when the frames aren't aluminum.

Don't pick a trailer due to water heater.  I throw a Suburban IW60 in for people who want tankless, as it can replace damn near any standard offering.  $1500 or so installed.

They're mostly the same unless you get something like ATC that can be pressure washed inside to clean it out .  Grand Design seems to put in a little extra effort, which goes quite a long ways when they built they way there are...

I’m a total noob when it comes to RVs. I’m looking at a minimalist rugged set up. Any opinion on the Sunset Park Sunray 129 sport?

Attached File

I'm kinda wondering about campers that size too. I'm doing a cargo conversion right now to see if Wife and I can get into it with the thought of using it as a stepping stone.

@Gtomike87

In ‘09 I bought a Lance 1685 for $17,500 (advertised for $23-25k online at dealerships).

With inflation that same trailer I would expect to cost $22k now and advertised for $29 - $31.5k.

There is nothing vastly different between the years of this trailer (a different front window and the style of the finishings is about it) and yet the new models are being advertised for $50-72k.

What’s up with that? Hard to believe the trailer really coats $20k more to make and instead seems like the dealer and manufacturer profits have increased.

Just looked at buddy's brand spanking new Winnebago 24 with on demand hot water Saturday. What a machine!

https://www.winnebago.com/models/product/motorhomes/class-c/navion?specifications=true

I’m not familiar with that brand, but looks like a neat set up from an independent manufacturer. If you like the style and price then go for it.

All I can say is that costs to us have indeed skyrocketed over the last two years so it is entirely possible that it costs them 20k more now than it did then. Part of that may be the cost of Lance doing business out of California. For comparison: on our Motorhomes built on freightliner chassis there was an $8500 cost increase in just one month last year. Extrapolate that to every other component and it starts to make sense.

Fair enough and thanks for the reply. It makes sense that only factoring inflation doesn’t capture all potential increased expenses.

Super C vs Diesel Pusher?  Need the towing power to comfortably tow at least 8k at highway speeds in the hills. Would prefer something on the small size that is easy to get around especially while pulling a trailer.  All of that of course at an affordable price

It’s hard for me to comprehend the increases we’ve seen lately. There were times when it was every month from some of our manufacturers, that’s hard to swallow for anyone.

A pushers are quieter and better riding, and also allow for more interior space per foot.

Super Cs are usually less expensive with the same tow capacity, and I’ve been told that they have better serviceability on the chassis side.

What’s your budget?

Also, where in MS are you located? I was born and raised in Vicksburg.

If you want a small size you might consider a Ford F450 and a slide in camper.

I'm in north MS Around the Holly Springs area.  Definitely thought about the slide in truck camper but a decent diesel truck costs almost as much as a dedicated camper then throw a truck camper in the equation and pricing will be close to the same more in some cases.

Most of the larger slide ins hang off the back a bit. Then you have to use an extension to tow, and if you need to tow enough weight to justify a Super C or diesel pusher that's not a good recipe.

Is anyone going to the Hershey show next week? I’ll be there working the show if anyone is planning on coming up. I won’t even charge for autographs!

I misspoke when suggesting an F450...

Looking at New... A 2022 F350 DRW Crew Cab gas with a handful of options is 55K throw an Arctic Fox 865 On there for 32K and you're at $87,000. A Super C or pusher is going to be 150K and up.

A gas DRW F350 should haul a camper and 8,000-pound trailer just fine. Just thinking you have to be close to 1/2 the cost with a slide in unless you go with a loaded diesel. A diesel engine will cost you 10K and about 800 pounds payload.

@GTOMike87

I looked but may have missed it.  What is your take on hybrids, with either a pop out or fold out sleep section?  If I am looking at something 5-10yrs old is this stuff just gonna be a headache for me?

I have a canvas hunting tent we use in Colorado.  It will last a long long time if we take care of it.  What about the canvas in these things?

I am really trying to find a shorter toy haulers, but looking at other options as well.

Camping season is back on the horizon and show season is upon us!

I hope everyone had a great fall and winter, I’m back to answer any questions anyone may have. If I missed any questions while I was away I apologize and I look forward to continuing to help.

@GTOMike87

In general, what percent more does a 4 season travel trailer cost than a 3 season? 20%? Just looking for a rough estimate. You could assume the models were otherwise the same if that helps.

Excellent question. When you move from rigs that are geared towards four seasons vs three seasons I’d say 20-25% is a fair guess.

@GTOMike87  So a year ago people were clamoring for whatever they could find and paying top prices.  Has that flipped over?  We have a 2001 Damon Class A and are thinking about getting a TT but a year ago when we attended the RV show in chicago we were less than impressed.  Quality was atrocious and prices were ludicrous.

I wouldn’t say that it’s completely flipped yet, but it appears to have slowed down to pre Covid levels. I don’t know if things will continue to slow or not, that’s the billion dollar question. In my market we are still seeing decent traffic and January is off to a pretty good start. I can tell you that our margins have shrunk, but costs have increased so much that the purchase prices are still higher than they were a year ago. It’s very difficult to get a travel trailer that has great quality. I’d be interested to know what models you looked at.

@GTOMike87

Will you be working the Tampa Super Show this year?

We looked at damn near everything at the show minus the 1M units.  We would need something w/ two sets of bunks in the back for three kids, master bedroom.  Our truck is 22 F250 7.3 CCLB 4wd and off the top of my head I do not remember what it's rated for.  Maybe three midcap girls?

Unfortunately I won’t be able to as my wife is having a biopsy the first day of the show and I’m not willing to be away from her for that. What are you going to look for?

Looked at one and it was overweight for my 18 F250.
Fully loaded it had a pin weight of 3150

Best of luck with the biopsy. I work the show for one of the vendors.

can a decent used diesel pusher be had for $80,000+ I am in MA but would be willing to travel to $ave

It’s a fun show, I try to check out the vendors when I can. I enjoy the big shows like Tampa and Hershey.

It’s possible. You’re probably looking a decade or more old at that price point. You may have to sacrifice some wants at that price point, and just be aware of issues that may be present in an older rig.