Minimum caliber for elk

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Minimum caliber for elk (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 4/14/2015 12:41:54 PM EDT

So I'm trying to set up a rifle for my wife for elk in Nevada this year and a friend of hers has her convinced that .243 is good enough.

She currently has a Tikka .308 that she hates shooting because of the recoil and was going to trade it for a Tikka .243 but from what I've been reading this isn't really optimal for elk.

Any other suggestions for a light recoiling caliber that's large enough for elk or will the .243 work? I've also been looking at 6.5 Grendel so she can stick with the AR platform which she is comfortable with.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Posted: 4/14/2015 12:47:59 PM EDT

[#1]

You should try this stuff. 125 grain low recoil Hornady. Should take an Elk with good shot placement at reasonable ranges (under 300 yards)

I use it in my 100 year old 1916 .308 Mauser (lower pressure easier on the rifle), stuff is great and really does have less recoil. Very accurate too.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/187296/hornady-custom-lite-ammunition-308-winchester-125-grain-sst-box-of-20

Posted: 4/14/2015 12:57:25 PM EDT

[#2]

I know people that use .243. I know others that won't go less than 338 win mag.

If you are going with a minimum, then be sure of your shot placement and not taking the shot if it isn't "perfect" if there is such a thing.

Posted: 4/14/2015 2:46:31 PM EDT

[#3]

I hunt with a friend that has used .243 and .270 since the early 80's.

It all comes down to placement, a good shot in the boiler room will kill the elk, you might have to track a bit before he realizes he's dead.

Posted: 4/14/2015 3:05:15 PM EDT

[#4]

So follow on question...

What would be the best choice between the 6.5 grendel, .243 or 308 with reduced recoil rounds?

How about 6.5 Creedmoor?

Posted: 4/14/2015 3:56:36 PM EDT

[#5]

My dad has killed several with a 308

my best friend and his sister bot killed one with a 243
both with one shot from a 243

Posted: 4/14/2015 4:07:50 PM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:
So follow on question...

What would be the best choice between the 6.5 grendel, .243 or 308 with reduced recoil rounds?

How about 6.5 Creedmoor?

View Quote

Out of those, I would take creedmoor or 260. Better sectional density for light bullets compared to the larger diameters. You should be able to load down some for lower recoil, yet higher velocity than Grendel.

Posted: 4/14/2015 4:51:42 PM EDT

[#7]

.30-06 with a 220 gr. bullet?

Posted: 4/14/2015 6:34:51 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
.30-06 with a 220 gr. bullet?

View Quote

Great solution for a person that thinks 308 is too much.

Posted: 4/14/2015 6:37:59 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

Great solution for a person that thinks 308 is too much.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
.30-06 with a 220 gr. bullet?

Great solution for a person that thinks 308 is too much.

Well, I guess being under gunned is always a choice.

Sometimes, the older guys did actually know what they were talking about.

You're talking about hunting an animal the size of a horse, and presumably, looking for humane kills.

Having no particular desire to start, or maintain, a controversy, I'll just go away.

Posted: 4/14/2015 6:58:13 PM EDT

[#10]

That is true that elk are a large animal. I bought a 270win for it. my neighbor's 10 yo shot andkilled a bison with a neck shot in 7mm-08. As long as you know your and the cartridge's limitations, a cannon isn't necessary. My uncle uses 250-3000 for Canadian moose. 250-3000 is similar to .243 win.

OP, does nv have a min caliber for elk?

Posted: 4/14/2015 7:35:05 PM EDT

[#11]

I built a couple of .260's for my buddy's kids. They have shot 5 Nevada Elk and around 10 deer with them in the last few years. They can shoot them well because they are not afraid of the recoil and make good shots. We use Barnes triple shock bullets. Elk do not wear body armor and a well placed 6.5 bullet works every time. If you shoot them in the ass or gut it doesn't matter what you use.

Posted: 4/14/2015 8:37:19 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:
I built a couple of .260's for my buddy's kids. They have shot 5 Nevada Elk and around 10 deer with them in the last few years. They can shoot them well because they are not afraid of the recoil and make good shots. We use Barnes triple shock bullets. Elk do not wear body armor and a well placed 6.5 bullet works every time. If you shoot them in the ass or gut it doesn't matter what you use.

View Quote

Thanks for the info on that.

I know everyone has their own opinion on what round is considered humane and honestly I doubt my wife takes a shot over 200 yards which is her current comfort level.

I know I'm definitely not comfortable with the. 243 for elk even though some people are. Leaning towards the 6.5 Grendel right now.

Posted: 4/15/2015 9:51:20 PM EDT

[#13]

Keeping your shots reasonable, there is no reason why a quality bullet in .243 won't bring down an elk. Another light recoil choice is 7mm-08. I would rather have 7mm-08 if given the choice between 243 and 7mm-08.

Personally I prefer 300 Win mag or 30-06 but that's my personal preferences. 270, 7mm, 308, etc... are all good choices.

Posted: 4/15/2015 10:18:43 PM EDT

[#14]

Most states have minimum big game calibers .I can imagine .24 would be legal for most big game.
on that note, i bought my wife a rem model 7, in 308 for her elk hunt.I just used light weight 110 grain loads for her to practice with, and then loaded it with hornady light magnums come hunting time.

Posted: 4/17/2015 12:00:03 AM EDT

[#15]

A 243 will do the job, but like others posted your shot placements and a quality bullet is key. If you're going to the 243, don't wait so she can PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, and PRACTICE MORE.

Have you upgraded the recoil pad on the 308? A limbsaver pad may help a lot. Also is the stock the factory synthetic? A wood stock may help as well. You could easily get both for under $150. Boyds offers recoil pads. Lastly, a muzzle brake will help with recoil. Only issue is the increased muzzle blast may make her flinch. If you want, check out harrells or Ross's. A ported brake is more effective then radial.

Posted: 4/19/2015 6:13:15 PM EDT

[#16]

A semi auto will take a big chunk of the 308 recoil away. A 20" Ar10 with a rifle length gas system is very manageable.

My elk stick, under 10lbs with a loaded 10 round mag.

" />

Posted: 4/19/2015 6:47:02 PM EDT

[#17]

My grandpa uses a 25.06,one shot drop,brother uses a .270 with GMX bullets,I use a .308 with Interlock bullets.

Posted: 4/19/2015 7:22:37 PM EDT

[#18]

My personal "minimum" would be 7mm-08. As always, shot placement is the key. If you don't have the shot you want, don't take it - seems this is something a lot of folks have issues with.

Posted: 4/19/2015 8:27:53 PM EDT

[#19]

It's bummer she doesn't like the .308. It my mind it's in the sweet spot for elk. Maybe an upgraded recoil pad or as someone mentioned, an AR-308. Don't forget, in theory, she's only going to take 1 or 2 shots and the adrenaline will be pumping. It's not like a day at the range where she's shooting 40-60 rounds with no adrenaline.

I took one at 320 yards last year with 165gr GMX .308. It just fell over on the spot. I haven't spent enough time behind the muzzle of a .243 to help you with that decision.

Posted: 4/25/2015 12:35:39 AM EDT

[#20]

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion and there is a broad range in skill and experience. Most who want to be certain of anchoring a bull elk use a suitable caliber with sufficient energy to do that effectively in the majority of situations, that is why I prefer the .300 Winchester Magnum, and most serious elk hunters I know will use at least a .30-06, but a magnum is preferred. .308 is considered marginal. That is not to say an elk cannot be dropped with a .243, I know it has happened many times. But I wouldn't hunt deer with a .22 LR just because I know it can be done. .

Posted: 4/25/2015 11:40:16 PM EDT

[#21]

After re reading the posts, a 260 would be perfect. Recoil isn't much more then a 243, and with a good recoil pad its a wash. Also with a 140gr pill is a lot better all the way around.

Posted: 4/26/2015 8:41:34 PM EDT

[#22]

I have shot a few elk with calibers from 7-08 on up to 45-70 and the Win Mags.

The 7-08 is what I am going to build for my kids first elk hunts. It can be loaded for recoil management with quality bullets and get the job done. Personally, if the 243 was the only gun I had I would use it. But if I were buying a "light" elk gun it would be a 7-08 or 25-06. Both will get the job done if you do your part.

Posted: 4/27/2015 1:16:30 AM EDT

[#23]

Bull tag? Cow tag? Either sex?

There's quite a difference between a cow and a bull, about 200 lbs if they are the same age. For mature bulls, I'd be very hesitant to go below a quality full power .308. I'm sure there are guys who pull it off, but I'd hate to miss on an opportunity at a once in a lifetime trophy hoping that a good shot improves to ideal, and instead turns into a missed opportunity.

For cows I suppose you could go down to a .270 or .243.

Posted: 4/27/2015 2:20:25 AM EDT

[#24]

My wife had the same issues. What we did on one rifle of hers in 30-06 was use a slightly lighter round, and what made a large amount of difference was using a slower burning powder, it felt more like a push than a kick, but we reload our own ammo. They do sell reduced recoil rounds also for both the 308 and 30-06. Hornady has some SST custom light rounds for 308 if you don't reload.

What we ended up doing on another rifle of hers that we didn't want to sacrifice distance or velocity was cutting down the stock a little to fit her better, then used a limbsaver which did reduce it quite a bit.
Later on the same rifle we ended up putting a brake on her gun, now it is a very soft shooter that she can shoot all day long.

Trying the limb saver first would put you out much money, with a box of the Hornday lite rounds, Much cheaper than buying a different rifle.

Just some Ideas.

Posted: 4/27/2015 3:17:53 PM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
Bull tag? Cow tag? Either sex?

There's quite a difference between a cow and a bull, about 200 lbs if they are the same age. For mature bulls, I'd be very hesitant to go below a quality full power .308. I'm sure there are guys who pull it off, but I'd hate to miss on an opportunity at a once in a lifetime trophy hoping that a good shot improves to ideal, and instead turns into a missed opportunity.

For cows I suppose you could go down to a .270 or .243.

View Quote

270 isn't even close to being in the same category as 243. 270 has been a recommended caliber for big bull elk for a long time.

Posted: 4/30/2015 10:41:01 PM EDT

[#26]

25-06 with 115 or 120 nosler partitions, Sierra 117-120 BT or ProHunter or Speer 120 BT or Hot-Cor. The 25-06 can drive push these bullets from 2900-3100 fps at ~2650-2750 ft-lbs of energy.

Posted: 5/8/2015 10:53:46 AM EDT

[#27]

Have you thought about putting a muzzle brake and a Limbsaver recoil pad on the Tikka?

Total cost would be around $400. Go with a KDF break. Bring the recoil down to about a .223. Add the Limbsaver for insurance.

Those Tikka T3 rifle from the factory are butt kickers. My son's .270 was painful to shoot until he added a Limbsaver.

Posted: 5/10/2015 7:59:35 PM EDT

[#28]

Mark LaRue took a big bull with a 6.5 grendel at ~400 yards.

Posted: 5/11/2015 4:27:48 AM EDT

[#29]

Is your wife able to pack a heavier rifle? The tikka t3 is pretty light, so it will have for felt recoil. If she is able I would look into a heavier rifle like a model 700 or ruger M77, or anything that weighs a bit more. As far as the caliber goes, if she is going to be shooting large Bulls and not just a cow, I would suggest a larger caliber at lower speeds. The small light caliber like .243 and .25-06 are capable of killing elk all day, but they are less likely to pass through bone, muscle and hide with a large enough exit wound to aid in tracking and bleeding out. I think a 7mm-08 in a heavier gun would be just the ticket. If recoil is still a bit stout for her you can buy reduced recoil loads.

Posted: 5/11/2015 6:34:39 AM EDT

[#30]

Muzzle Brake and Limbsaver.

Her .308 will turn into a pussycat.

I have a couple of these brakes. My Model Seven in 7mm SAUM had some kick until I put one on it. Amazing reduction in recoil. Plus it looks good.

Vais Brake

Posted: 5/11/2015 7:39:12 AM EDT

[#31]

I (like others have mentioned) think your best bet is to work with the 308 .
Start the wife out with some light reloads or factory low recoil rounds .
Carefully look at stock fit and condition of the recoil pad.

The worse possible thing for you to do is take her to the range on a warm summer day with light clothes and sit her down at a shooting bench with full power loads .The 308 will pound her and she won't be happy.

Start her standing (possibly with shooting stick or monopod as a support) light loads and a shooting jacket with shoulder pad (even a shotgun vest works ) and things will be much better.

Posted: 5/27/2015 11:41:07 AM EDT

[#32]

I don't know how difficult it would be to install something like THIS in the plastic Tika stock.

I vote for sticking with .308, practice with light rounds, hunt with heavy.
Make sure the LOP is not too long for her, and add a recoil pad.

Posted: 5/28/2015 11:51:21 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't know how difficult it would be to install something like THIS in the plastic Tika stock.

I vote for sticking with .308, practice with light rounds, hunt with heavy.
Make sure the LOP is not too long for her, and add a recoil pad.

View Quote

If the butt of the stock is hollow, it's pretty easy. Remove recoil pad, clean cavity, get a dowel of same diameter, cut to length 6in longer then stock, lube it up with vaseline, place in cavity, fill with spray foam, let dry/cure, remove excess foam, remove dowel, insert reducer, re attach recoil pad, go shoot.

Posted: 6/21/2015 6:15:06 PM EDT

[#34]

Don't buy a new rifle. Just buy a limbsaver pad for the buttstock of her current rifle. I have a Tikka in '06 that I hated shooting - until I installed this bad boy. Now it's a pussycat. I shoot 30-40 rounds wearing a t-shirt. No biggie.

At midway

Posted: 6/23/2015 10:13:29 PM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:
25-06 with 115 or 120 nosler partitions, Sierra 117-120 BT or ProHunter or Speer 120 BT or Hot-Cor. The 25-06 can drive push these bullets from 2900-3100 fps at ~2650-2750 ft-lbs of energy.

View Quote

The big point being overlooked here is bullet type. Spending a little bit for a load with a good bullet like a Barnes, Nosler or even an old school bonded core bullet that retains mass will go a long way. Some modem bullets have gotten really good. What might have been true about needing a larger caliber decades ago might need some rethinking.

Posted: 6/25/2015 2:13:05 PM EDT

[#36]

7mm-08 is a great do it all round for someone who is or might be recoil sensitive. It also carries enough energy out to about 200 yards to ethically take a large game animal such as an elk. With the wide variety of bullets out there the 7mm is a really good option worth looking at. 140grn Accubond at about 2800fps gets the job done as long as you do your part.

Posted: 6/25/2015 2:17:28 PM EDT

[#37]

Guys kill a bunch of them with arrows every year. A bunch of them get killed every year with 243's as well.

Posted: 6/25/2015 2:37:01 PM EDT

[#38]

I put 5 rounds of Barnes 168 TSX through the boiler house of an Idaho elk at 240 yards. He still ran a mile. With silver dollar sized exit wounds. Two through the lungs. Elk are extremely tough animals. I would go with at least a >180 class bullet in greater than or equal to >.30 cal.

YMMV

Posted: 6/25/2015 2:40:19 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:
I put 5 rounds of Barnes 168 TSX through the boiler house of an Idaho elk at 240 yards. He still ran a mile. With silver dollar sized exit wounds. Two through the lungs. Elk are extremely tough animals. I would go with at least a >180 class bullet in greater than or equal to >.30 cal.

YMMV

View Quote

I'm a big proponent of heavy .30s or bigger on Elk. Preferably something larger than a .35.

Posted: 6/29/2015 6:58:09 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

I'm a big proponent of heavy .30s or bigger on Elk. Preferably something larger than a .35.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
I put 5 rounds of Barnes 168 TSX through the boiler house of an Idaho elk at 240 yards. He still ran a mile. With silver dollar sized exit wounds. Two through the lungs. Elk are extremely tough animals. I would go with at least a >180 class bullet in greater than or equal to >.30 cal.

YMMV

I'm a big proponent of heavy .30s or bigger on Elk. Preferably something larger than a .35.

i agree with this too. i just watched a show a few nights ago where a guy took a nice bull with a AR type .308 at around 350 yards. after shooting , the bull strolled off like nothing happened. they found it 600 yards away piled up in the timbers. the replay of his shot showed a nice hit too . not saying .308 isnt big enough, but i wouldnt take chances. IMO .300 win mag is a very good caliber for elk .

Posted: 6/29/2015 7:07:35 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
So I'm trying to set up a rifle for my wife for elk in Nevada this year and a friend of hers has her convinced that .243 is good enough.

She currently has a Tikka .308 that she hates shooting because of the recoil and was going to trade it for a Tikka .243 but from what I've been reading this isn't really optimal for elk.

Any other suggestions for a light recoiling caliber that's large enough for elk or will the .243 work? I've also been looking at 6.5 Grendel so she can stick with the AR platform which she is comfortable with.

Thanks in advance for the help.

View Quote

My wife is a 125 pounder and uses a lightweight 30.06 for deer & elk. The recoil problem can be solved by using light recoil 125gr ammo for practice and full-power 180gr ammo just for hunting. A .243 is too light for a general purpose elk rifle for what I assume is a non-expert shooter & hunter.

Posted: 6/29/2015 7:54:17 AM EDT

[#42]

Nevermind, thought this was a GD thread.

Posted: 6/29/2015 10:19:27 AM EDT

[#43]

My son has a Weatherby Ultra Lightweight in .30-06. I zeroed it for him and from the bench it's absolutely brutal, worse than my 338 Win Mag. He killed an elk with it and I asked him about the recoil afterwards. "Dad, they don't kick when there's hair in the scope".

Elk are tough critters. I shot a big cow on a Texas game ranch a while back. I used a 44 Mag revolver with Hornady 240 XTP factory loads. It should have been enough gun, but the bullets broke up on the shoulder and never penetrated to the vitals. I put three in the same shoulder and she was still standing. I got closer and put one in her neck, that anchored her. I should have used a tougher bullet, the best choice would probably have been a hard cast bullet.

Moral of the story, use enough gun, and use the right bullet.

Posted: 7/6/2015 6:46:04 PM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:
So follow on question...

What would be the best choice between the 6.5 grendel, .243 or 308 with reduced recoil rounds?

How about 6.5 Creedmoor?

View Quote

First elk aren't armor plated anything from a 223 up will work with the right bullet and if you restrict shots to bow shots 50 yards and broadside or slightly quartering away. As you stretch the range and shot angles you have to move up in caliber. I wouldn't use a 243 for elk. There is no bullet which can penetrate a shoulder and make a wide wound. My bare min would be a 25 caliber 115 or 120 grain bullet at 2900 fps and keep shots to inside 200 and avoid heavy bone. So my min would be a hot 257 roberts(or 257 ai) or 25-06. I still wouldn't choose to use those 25 calibers because my personal belief is they are still going to be to limiting in shot selection. To me real elk calibers would start with a 7mm-08 or 270. Those calibers can make any reasonable angel shots and still give wide enough wounds. Many would consider those calibers to light or limiting in range.

Posted: 7/7/2015 12:25:53 AM EDT

[#45]

A limbsaver recoil pad fitted to the stock of a 308 will probably be plenty to tame the recoil for her. I put one on my 45-70 guide gun, and it really made a difference on the stout loads, so I can assure you as can others, it will help her. Elk are really just large deer. A 30/30 will take an elk with no issue, but distances must be kept in check. Each state has its caliber restrictions, and you would be best served verifying things well before the hunt, and before you commit to a different caliber. A 243 isn't a bad cartridge, it's just not my favorite. Due to a lack of bullet weight, keep shots within a reasonable distance. I myself hunt elk with a variety of rifles. 45/70, 7mm rem mag, 300win, 300RUM, and my favorite, 375H&H. Do I need such a big gun? Naw, but it sure as heck fun. If she needs to drop in caliber, find a way to let her try a 7mm-08 before going to a 243. And let her think it's a pea shooter. Recoil tolerance is heavily psychological, and the rest is gun fitment. This brings up another issue. What is her length of pull vs the rifle in question? If she is of small stature, she should be shooting a compact rifle, which would help in fitting and felt recoil.

Posted: 7/10/2015 1:25:30 AM EDT

[#46]

I would say make the 308 shootable. Put a break on it, bigger recoil pad or a new stock all together. I shoot all my elk with a 7mm-08 and it has very little recoil.

Posted: 8/5/2015 9:19:24 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
I put 5 rounds of Barnes 168 TSX through the boiler house of an Idaho elk at 240 yards. He still ran a mile. With silver dollar sized exit wounds. Two through the lungs. Elk are extremely tough animals. I would go with at least a >180 class bullet in greater than or equal to >.30 cal.

YMMV

View Quote

Do you really think, shot placement being equal, that a bigger gun would have put that elk down faster? I dont.

Ive dropped deer in their tracks with a half dozen different calibers and had deer run hundreds of yards with the exact same set ups with nearly identical shot placement.

Also, were those shots in the lungs through both lungs or one?

Posted: 8/16/2015 12:31:03 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:
I put 5 rounds of Barnes 168 TSX through the boiler house of an Idaho elk at 240 yards. He still ran a mile. With silver dollar sized exit wounds. Two through the lungs. Elk are extremely tough animals. I would go with at least a >180 class bullet in greater than or equal to >.30 cal.

YMMV

View Quote

168gr vld