Stuff in red in the quote.  


One thing you need to consider in your plans is a garden wall between your property and the properties next door. In particular, on the driveway side.

That space begs to have "walls" and you need to consider that.

Even if it's a freaking wooden privacy fence at first (a true brick garden wall befitting the era is a really expensive installation) it would be better than none.

Another option is a TALL iron fence.   you know the kind with arrow-points either everywhere or at certain intervals?  Anything like that.  Curvy top, straight...doesn't matter. You might luck into one of these, as I sense you have that sort of luck hovering around you.  

NOT ONE OF THE TWO-FOOT TALL BITS. THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU NEED.  YOU NEED A TALL FENCE/wall.

If you get the chance at enough to wall even just the sides of the property, grab it.

To set that fountain area off, you need a division between you and the neighbors.  Consider it a canvas for the painting you're creating, or the wall of the gallery where you're displaying the art.  You don't hang art in the woods.  You hang it where each piece shows itself to best advantage.

You need a division between your property and the neighboring yards.  

It could be a hedge, but a wall/fence is quicker (and, frankly, less high maintenance.)


Editing to add:  Looking again at your space, a six foot "pool" might not be bad, but I don't think I would go eight.  Leave yourself room to surround that fountain with a lush garden.

Is it a creeper?



If so, that's freaking perfect!

Listen, do you have a deadline?

I am buried through the 18th, unless I catch a break.  I mean 16 hour work days or more.

I pulled out the graph paper today, but I've gotta just get the little break to do the drawing on the 10 x 40' bed.

Uxb has an interview tomorrow in Chattanooga, and we are driving down there.  I may have some time while he's in the interview. I have no idea how long it will run.

If I can't draw for you then, it may be next week.

If you have a deadline, tell me and I'll get take-out one night instead of cooking.

ETA: Oh wait...it's Sedum spectabile, isn't it?  

I thought you meant it had been there a long time and was still only that tall.

It'll get tall like Autumn joy, right?

(Sorry...I just saw that short Sedum and thought "prostrate".  )

Uh...no, don't do that.  Because where is the pee going to go?

And the smell buildup...

No, I wouldn't do that.

At least with real grass and soil, you have rain and/or sprinklers you could use to leach that urine out of the top layers (this was going to be my recommendation if you asked--using a sprinkler on the lawn a couple of times a month)

I'm not ignoring you.  But I'm running pretty hard these next few days.

It will take me a bit to try to sketch this out and try to get a visual idea from the text descriptions.

If you feel like sketching the site plan on a piece of paper and taking a photo, that would be a big help.

If you can't do that, just give me time.

Awesome that it's holding water!

Help me understand what you're going to do with the berm?

I first thought, backstop for shooting (since this is, you know, AR15.com )  but then you talked about sides and a back and I got lost.  (Not hard to do these days...I'm juggling a lot and am a bit scattered.)

Oh, that's amazing!  

Really nice idea.

Okay this is great, and your photos are perfect. PLEASE DON'T TAKE THE PLUNGE ON THE FENCE AROUND THE POOL YET.  If you use any ideas like the ones I give you, you'll need to expand it outward just a bit.  

I need to know...

1-It sounds like you do not plan to keep the pool fence in place forever.  Can you explain your reasoning?  (I don't have a pool and don't know about the removeable mesh-type fence.)  If I could get a feel for what you are thinking with this, and your plan for future, that would be really helpful.

2-Are you planning on staying in this house for a long time?  Or is it an interim property for you?


3-How far is it from the edge of the middle of the pool to the back fence?

4-Your little one is very small.  That does not look like a "football tossing" yard, but if you see yourself tossing a football back there in a few years, I need to know that. Tossing a football with your little one is WAY more important than any pretty landscape design.  Just sayin.

I do not own a chipper/shredder, but I can tell you this:

Any tool that is meant to chew up branches with a blade should cost more than $100, because the blades themselves should cost nearly that much.

I would not put my money there.



Now then..perhaps owners of chipper/shredders will weigh in. I would love to be wrong.

Whoanelly..

What kinds of trees are on your property?

There are some that you should ABSOLUTELY not use for mulch.  They will kill other plants.

ALSO..putting any green wood on your gardens as mulch will cause you problems unless you know what you're doing. It's a good idea in theory, using your yard debris as mulch, but mulch should be composted before it's put around plants.  Do you have a plan for this?

ETA: Your avatar is awesome. Is that GSD yours?

Well then, I will not be drawing.

Good for you and your crew for getting that done.

Volunteer work is often thankless.

Lokt's pool and yard in the hot Tejas sun...

Lokt, I have some ideas for  how to best utilize the landscape to show off your lovely pool to best advantage.


The reason I'm doing all this at once, not just the fence, is because if you use anything like these ideas, it will be a lot easier to at least dig out and prepare the landscape beds around the pool area BEFORE the fence is installed (that way you're not working around the fence) even if you can't install the plantings all at once. (the fence will likely be a fair expense, I know)

So here's the theory.  

Looking out from your back door, both of these ideas echo the beautiful shape of your pool.  In fact, they exaggerate it AND having the plantings can both provide a little shade on the corners of that concrete, but will also cool the area around the pool--you'd be surprised how effective this can be.

What I've done here is try to keep your FENCE expense minimal, while allowing you to use pretty fence, like the iron you mentioned.  

You're right.  That doesn't bend as easily (at least in my experience...I am no fence expert, but buying custom curved panels is likely really pricey)  

So...if you chose BLACK iron fencing, (I don't know how viable this is in your heat--but any metal is going to get very hot in the summer sun.  I assume you have ways around that---padding the handle on the gates etc)  the fence will blend in and become an actual structural element within the beds themselves.

So looking out from your back door, you have the echo of the pool's shape, softened by landscaping with small understory trees like dogwood and redbud (more on this issue of choosing deciduous trees, or not, later) at the outside edges of the beds, with layered woody shrubs and herbacious perennials as you move in toward the pool.   Looking up a little, you can see the shade trees in the back corners, hopefully far enough away that they do not cause a maintenance issue for your pool.

You also have a big open area large enough for kids to run around, toss a football, and if you need one, an open space against the back fence for a potential play area that can still be seen from the back door.

I don't know how much you can really tell about plant placement here.  First because it's a quick job and my writing is scrawl.  Mostly though, the image got so blurry I couldn't really blow it up far enough to do exact plant placement, but I can help you with that with a drawing later maybe on graph paper.  For now, I know you need to work on the hard down and dirty of the structure of the gardens first.

So there are two options for the bed....one a little deeper and more lush (and which will involve more mulch every year.

A second which is a little narrower and will require slightly less mulch for maintenance, and fewer plants to fill out fully, HOWEVER, the deeper bed will look better with the fence incorporated.

(I can send you bigger images.  I'm trying to not overdo the bandwidth usage here.)

Idea 1--See how the beds echo the shape of the pool?  The small flowering ornamental trees around the outside edges of the beds will create sort of a "resort" feel around your pool, with low shrubs underneath them, and the beds edged with easy care grass like Liriope (monkey grass)...I will rely on the plantsmen/women in your area to tell me if any of these plants won't take your heat, or if there are better alternatives.

In each case, the beds allow grass at the "cut ins" to meet the concrete, so you can open the gate and step right out (maximum stepping stone or two to get to the gate, if you need that)  You want an access on each side of your pool because it's a PITA to walk around things to get to that part of the yard. People won't do it.  They'll walk right through the beds.  Especially kids.

Not all elements are listed on each drawing simply to keep it readable and because I was moving fast.

I still recommend the same basic elements in each one.

In this image with the bigger beds, you have some room for a little area of colorful annuals if you want those and if your wife likes to garden.  If not, just put a wider clump of the liriope or some short foxtail grasses or some such.  (I can draw this plan for layered shrubs, but there's no point if you hate these ideas.)





Idea 2

See how it's the same idea, but "pulled in" a little?  Same types of plantings, just fewer of them.





Fence options

You may have trouble seeing the dashed line (made with thin sharpie so it didn't muddle in with the bed shape).

Fences need to meet something hard--a building, a porch post, etc, to keep the whole thing feeling like part of the structure and an outdoor room, and not just stuck out there, separate from everything.

So you see how the black fence, when it's in among the layered shrubs, will become part of the whole picture.




With the option where the fence comes in close to the concrete, I would not have grass in that small area.  I would bring the mulch all the way to the gate, and just put more of the small grasses there.  

If you do anything like this, even if we sub in some drought loving grasses, etc, you will still need some drip irrigation in those beds (soaker hoses have their issues, but they work for this kind of application).

You don't have to put all these things in at once.  

In fact, if I were doing your landscape, once you have the beds built and the fence installed, I would recommend, for purposes of budget, that first you put in the trees.  Maybe some of the liriope around the edge of the concrete.  Then next season, budget for some shrubs and some other plant material.  Bust up this installation into pieces, but go for the largest plants first, because it takes more time for them to get to size.


Other Options:


Now then...If you want NO deciduous trees that close to your pool (I don't have a pool, so I'm not in touch with how bad smaller trees like dogwoods and redbuds, etc, are when it comes to maintenance issues)  you can go with other options.

I would need help to know what columnar evergreens (tall ones) survive down there.  Sounds like a lot of them have issues.

BUT...you could choose big clumps of the tall ornamental fountain grasses for the background plants (I'm talking the six to eight foot tall beauties that have big plumes in warm months and provide garden structure through the winter)  those would be beautiful used almost like a row of palm trees around that outside edge) then layer more things like nandina (Plantsmen, does that make it down there?) some of the Artemesias (like Powis Castle mentioned in earlier posts) Yucca (sharp points for little hands, so maybe not this) etc.  As far as plant choice and placement, if I draw this for you, I will have to look at one of the references posted by the folks from your AO to see what's available, then I can help you layer them effectively for best aesthetic impact.

now then...ask questions.

Tell me what you can't read, and I'll interpret.

ETA:  I forgot to say...one thing you do not want to do unless you just have to...is put a narrow little band of bed maybe two feet wide around those curves.  Because it will feel like an afterthought.  This happens when the landscaping is too small for the proportion of the hardscape.  so you need to make them at least substantial enough to read as "I was here from the beginning, and I am part of this whole thing.  The pool was set in the middle of ME, not the other way around."  Okay does that make sense?

Crud...I keep forgetting important parts..

When you look at those beds with the fence in them, RESIST FOLLOWING THE LINE OF THE FENCE WITH THE PLANTINGS.  Instead, Look at the curved nature of the beds, and see how teh plantings are clumped together within that curve?  You ignore the fence, and you clump them like that.  So in some cases, if you're putting in a clump of Sedum, Autumn Joy (for instance) and it calls for seven plants, if you're following the clumped curves, some of those will fall inside the fence, and others will fall outside.  This will help diminish the fence's impact on the entire design, and help it feel less "rigid" in appearance.  You've got a lot of hardscape.  What we're doing here is "softening" that, by echoing the curves, yet avoiding the cost of putting the expensive fence all the way around those curves, and/or using a less attractive mesh-type fence.
did I just make mud of the whole thing?

No worries, and I will take another look at the back of your house.  You will see at least one question mark on the drawing, as I was unclear about exactly how some of the areas get used.  I can also draw you a variation that anchors in landscape beds either at the patio pillars, so the porch fence can run between those pillars, OR I can draw beds that run from the pillars out to  an anchor point a little further beyond.  You would need to think about where you want the usable patio space--in the pool area, or between the pool fence and the back door.  How you use teh space under the porch roof NOW is likely how you would keep using it, but with the shade at the corner of the porch, you will gain some hours in the evening a bit further out.

You CAN anchor with landscaping, and if that's the goal, I can help with that too.

Re:  Winter structure.  Your dogwoods and redbuds do that.  If I thought birch would grow in your area, I would recommend some paperbark birch here and there (this is a lovely multi-stemmed tree with peeling bark that's very attractive.)

You can also have both the tall grasses AND the redbuds. It's just a matter of designing it properly so they don't look like a thicket.

OMGOSH you freaking DID IT!!!  

That looks AMAZING!

I did not expect you to follow through with that design because most people chicken out.  That ROCKS!

And not because I suggested it.  Your little paradise is beautiful!

I don't understand....apparently you're saying that's artificial turf?

It looks like GRASS!  I never saw any even close to that good.

But how does it handle the dog pee?  Assuming the pee and water drains into the substrate, but I've never seen any that was so effective. (Theoretically the stuff they put on sports arenas has to be good, but I don't know what that is, and I've seen some pretty bad burns on skin from that stuff too.)   I've seen some really piss-poor turf (no pun intended) that was worse than nothing, and I've seen a lot of in-betweens, but that is fantastic.   And it FEELS like grass?  What the heck is it made of?

It's beautiful going up half your steps, by the way. That's a great effect.  Very Japanese Garden.

And speaking of Japanese Gardens...

It sounds like you want a sort of pergola over part of the hot tub and that whole side of the garden (I mean from the hot tub all the way to the little red heart shaped thing I can see in the corner)

The thing about pergolas is that they are difficult to make "stylistically appropriate" and the thought that goes into them beforehand will make it a win or..less of a win.

They tend to very easily look oriental.  Not sure you want that.  

I see what appears to be a stucco house.  Is that correct?

Tell me about your house--its shape and style beyond the man cave (which is very nice, by the way), tell me how you think about your garden, and how you and your wife think about design.

What do you like?

What spaces do you walk into and go "ahhhhhh, that's REALLY lovely?"

If you could visit any garden in the world, either formally designed or one straight out in nature, what would it be?

Would it be an English Cottage garden designed by Gertrude Jekyll?  (That's pronounced Jeee-kill)

Would it be  a Scottish castle with the formal gardens that accompany same?

Would it be a serene Japanese Garden, with all the elements represented, including time?

Would it be a terraced rock garden built with incredible architectural desert plants?

Would it be a South Georgia swamp, with heavy shade, cypress trees half in the water, and lush undergrowth?

Palm trees and orchids in a tropical jungle?

What?

Yes, it will be harmful to the tree.

What folks often do not realize is that tree roots, even underground, actually breathe (in a way)--they need Oxygen and other gases from air.  Wherever they are--meaning how deep they are in the ground--they are there because they are getting sufficient oxygen at that level.  You will notice that maples (Sugar in particular, red less so) have very shallow root systems in many instances.  People love maple trees, but despair of  mowing around them because of constantly hitting the shallow roots that stick out of the ground.    

If you bury the roots of the maple more deeply, I would be extremely careful, and would not go more than an inch or so.  And if the tree is already stressed, I likely would not even do that.  I have removed the sod and replaced it with a very loose, "chunk" type mulch--pine nuggets or the bigger chunks you can sometimes get in bags, which makes an attractive ground cover without burying the roots, and relieves the need to mow around the tree.  I don't know if this will work for you or not.   But by doing that, I did not add any depth to the soil over the roots. I kept it at the same level, just mulch instead of grass...does that make sense?

If the tree has a steep mound around its base, it likely was planted shallowly, and perhaps for exactly the reason you've noted.  the heavy clay soil would have suffocated it, and planting it with part of the root ball out of the ground might have been one solution to that.  There could be other reasons it's like that.  Sometimes clay, when it gets waterlogged, will actually heave or "float" objects (septic tanks, etc) and the root ball of a recently installed tree would not be unheard-of.   I don't know that of course, just guessing at why that tree has such a steep approach to the trunk.  In any case, I would not attempt to alter it, in particular because it's a maple, and it's a nice size one.  

I wonder if we might be able to help with ideas to redirect the water flow around the root ball, so it moves away from the house, and to best advantage for you and the tree as well?