I've dyed some 3-color Desert camo MOLLE sustainment pouches for attachment to the pack body, to more-or-less mimic the general Multicam hue.  Looks like it will take one per side, but I bought a 4-pack anyway.  I haven't decided on what to do about the frame, or the OEM shoulder straps and waist belt.  Like you, I'm inclined to replace the ALICE frame with the DE ALICE frame.  If you get one, call them/e-mail them, and make sure to get the USMC version of the ABN/ALICE frame, as it has some additional reinforcements vice the original ABN ALICE frame.

The sustainment pouches will likely hide the top compression straps.  This being so, I plan to stuff the thing and its pockets, do some measuring, and buy some QD compression straps from Mystery Ranch to not only compress the pack body, but the multiple pockets as well.  At $5 a pop, cheaper to buy them than to make them.  OTOH, it might be possible to buy some double-sided Multicam 1" webbing, and use the OEM QD fasteners in order to accomplish the same goal.  It will be easier to say after the pack and pockets are stuffed full, and measurements can be made. 

The OEM versions of the waist belt and shoulder straps look as though they will attach to the DE ABN frame all right.  They might be perfectly adequate; we'll see.  If not, I'll get a MOLLE 3-color desert camo waist belt and shoulder straps, dye them as I did the sustainment pouches, and use them instead.  What I want to do is make certain that the shoulder straps and waistbelt (as well as the whole lash-up in its final form all work well together, and are compatible with a place cattier using hard armor plates.  I know the 1606 DE frame was designed to work well with hard-armor PCs in conjunction with MOLLE/FILBE shoulder straps and waist belt.  I don't know that for certain about the pack with DE frame plus OEM LBT waist belt and shoulder straps.

I have some questions that I just e-mailed to DE, Inc about their frame pad set (waist belt and shoulder straps), as well as some other things that might be of interest to owners of this pack.  I'll post the reply when it comes through.  I advise doing nothing as far as revamping frame and/or waist belt/shoulder straps till then.

Don't forget that the ALICE frame. preferably with good shoulder straps and load-bearing waist belt can be used for load-hauling, as long as you have an ALICE cargo shelf and at least two QD nylon straps that will go around the load and the ALICE frame.  For example, a 5-gal military fuel can or 4 X 50-cal cans are do-able in this way.

Glad to hear that USRO took care of you.  My pack was like new.  Luck of the draw, I guess.

This received from DownEast:
"The adaptor kit is something wehave offered for people who want to use stock ALICE pads and do not won’t to
deal with rigging them.  There are certainly ALICE style pads that work
fine with the 1606, as well as the current USMC pads and the Army’s MOLLE2 Large
pad set.  I know a lot of people use the MOLLE2 Large pads because you can
get them in Multicam for cheap on the surplus/eBay side.  Both of our pad
sets are designed to be compatible with hard armor should you choose to go that
route.  They are available not mounted on a frame, it’s basically $25 less
than the cost with.  Please let me know if you have additional questions.Regards,Justin KigerDown East Innovation"

Having had a chance to closely examine the LBT pack and its waist belt and shoulder straps, as well as the DE 1606 USMC/ABN frame on my FILBE pack, I'm of the opinion that the OEM LBT waist belt cannot be used in conjunction with the DE 1606 frame.  Something will have to be substituted if the DE 1606 frame is to be used.

The pack itself has a very large scapula (shoulder blade) pad, and having such will, I think, prevent the use of a MOLLE II shoulder pad assembly.  I don't think the MOLLE II shoulder pad set would be much, if any, of an upgrade over the OEM LBT shoulder straps, BUT, if you disagree, another set of shoulder straps can be substituted for the OEM set.  Perhaps something like the easily found Enhanced LC 2 ALICE straps.  Most often found in Woodland camo, and a far cry from the LC 1 version.  As long as the replacements are of the general ALICE configuration/attachment system, it should attach all right.  The Woodland Enhanced LC2 shoulder straps are sold with a right-hand and a left-hand strap, and look like this:http://www.omahas.com/alice-pack-straps-lc-2-enhanced-used#.WPYDQYWcG00. Not suggesting this particular vendor; it's just that they have decent pix.  Make SURE to get the entire assembly, as some vendors offer partial rigs.  You'll need to transfer the sternum strap from the LBT shoulder straps to the LC2 straps.

To sum up:  OEM/LBT Shoulder straps can be retained or changed with either frame, be it ALICE or DE 1606.  MOLLE II shoulder straps are not compatible with this pack, regardless of frame used.  The OEM Waist belt can be retained if an ALICE-type frame is used, but if the DE 1606 frame is used, something else that will fit the DE frame must be used instead of the OEM LBT waist belt; this means either the MOLLE II waist belt, or something else with a very similar attachment system  While some mfrs, such as Tactical Tailo,r make an ALICE-based waist belt that looks like it will work on the DE 1606 frame, it appears that it is an upgraded ALICE-style kidney pad, as opposed to being a true load-bearing waist belt, such as the MOLLE II or Platatac waist belt.  IMHO, this too large a pack to consider using without a load-bearing waist belt.

Options are as follows:
1) Use it as-is.  Zero cost, and may be fine.  At least it will give you time to ponder and save up for alternatives.
2) Replace OEM ALICE frame with a much improved Tactical Tailor ALICE frame.  Costly ($80), but the TT frame is much better-made and constructed vice the GI ALICE frame.   You would still have to use the OEM LBT waist belt, but using the OEM/LBT shoulder straps, or replacing them are options.
3)Replace the frame with a vastly improved DE plastic version ($35).  You will be using the OEM shoulder straps (unless substituted), and will need to install a MOLLE II waist belt ($15) or something similar.
4) There is an Australian company called Platatac which makes a very nice waist-belt that will fit the DE frame, or any ALICE frame.  Unfortunately, the price, with shipping, would come to about $100, I believe.  Available in multicam, and in two sizes.  This is without a doubt the best belt for this application I have seen.

I plan to exercise option (3) and will dye the desert camo waist belt to a color that mimics the general hue of the Multicam pack.  Something like 2 parts Rit Apple Green dye, 1 part Rit Dark Green, and 1 part Rit Taupe.  The dye should cost about $12 or so, and is fairly easy to do.  See my thread "On Dyeing With Rit Dye" in the Tactical Gear forum.  I have already dyed a couple of desert camo MOLLE Sustainment Pouches which I have attached to both upper sides of the pack.

Other than adding some compression straps, that's all I have at the moment.  I'll post anything else that comes to mind as time goes by.

ETA:  The scapula pocket on the LBT pack is approx. 6-3/4" deep.  The measurement from the top of the DE 1606 frame to the top of the projecting side supports is 5-1/2".  IOW, the LBT scapula pocket is deeper than the frame.  By way of comparison, the ALICE scapula pocket/top pad is about 1/2 the depth of that on the LBT.  I don't know if this will be a problem, nor to what degree.  The projecting side supports were originally intended as securing points for the MOLLE/FILBE packs, and are superfluous given the depth of the LBT's scapula pocket.  There are a couple of points on each side support where they might be shortened without the least impairment to the strength/structure of the DE frame.  Might not need be trimmed at all: we'll see.  I have an e-mail into DE about this.

Message received from DE: "If you order a 1606 on the webstore from us, just put in the notes that you want an MC.  We have them in
tan and coyote; the fulfillment people are on the look out for people asking
for MC’s.  Our web store is in the process of being rebuilt from scratch,
so we haven’t added the MC into the regular inventory there. How deep is the pocket ininches?  I can measure the available room on our pad sets to compare if
that is of interest.  I also have a USMC pad set I can measure. The recurved ‘arms’ on the 1606can be trimmed or cut off without issue.  I’d suggest some sanding to
smooth it out afterwards, but it should not have any effect on the function of
the frame.  It does stop you from returning it, so make sure you are happy
before that alteration please. Regards,Justin" 

The NICE frame is, well, nice, but I have reservations about the price.  I have yet to find anywhere on the MR site where the frame is shown in detail, let alone offered for sale as a separate item.  It appears that adapting the ALICE pack (and almost certainly the LBT pack) to the NICE frame requires the additional expense of the MR "Straps and Flaps" kit in order to strap the ALICE (and the LBT) onto the NICE frame. Google "NICE Frame" and an image of a LG ALICE appears, so-attached.  I can be up and running with an armor-compatible DEI 1606 frame (modified) and a MOLLE waist belt, for about 1/2 the Nice frame + Straps and Flaps kit price.  However, YMMV.  Keep in mind that your surplus ALICE frame+ ALICE cargo shelf +at least two sturdy wraparound straps + a pair of rather inexpensive ENHANCED ALICE LC2 shoulder straps is an excellent load-hauler by itself.  For cheap.

Looking at googled images of the NICE frame, I have some doubts as to whether or not it is compatible with a Plate carrier with hard plates installed.  I know for certain that the DEI 1606 frame is GTG in that respect.  As I have decided to use the DEI frame, for partially that reason, I haven't made inquiries to MR about the NICE frames' suitability with respect to body armor.  I suggest that if this a concern, or could be a concern in the future, you might inquire before making a decision.  Being armor-compatible is something to consider for the future, as you mentioned possible re-sale value.

I've already decided to exercise Option 3 after counting the cost of the other options.  Frame from DE is on its' way, and the MOLLE desert camo waist belt I ordered from Allegheny Surplus has arrived, and is awaiting dyeing.

I'll wait until I have the pack mounted on the 1606 frame before making a decision on how to rig accessory compression straps.  I have to work around the MOLLE Sustainment pouches that I added, as well, so everything has to be loaded fully before I can measure things.  This pack will definitely be scalable, which is what I was originally looking for.  The compression straps (provisionally three horizontal straps) will be highly useful in making the pack scalable as the user wishes. 

I also found a huge coyote brown MOLLE-attached LBT-made sleeping bag carrier in my stash.  Possibly this could be attached to the PALS/MOLLE matrix on the bottom of the pack in lieu of a MOLLE Sleeping System Carrier.  Either one would work for a winter set-up.   If some extra room was desired, a MOLLE waist pack (available in multicam), and on its' way,  can be attached to the bottom of the LBT pack, and such would augment the very small capacity detachable backpack which is included in the LBT pack.

I think that this will work out very, very, well when done.  Not surprisingly, some thought and effort has to be devoted to making all this work, but it's not too hard, and I have some experience in doing so.  It's a fun mental exercise, sort of like putting a puzzle together.  Given the complexity of the LBT pack, I plan on buying s 6-pack of Bic lighters and re-charging the long-nosed barbecue lighters in order to sear/melt all the ends of the fabric on the pack.  This is something I do as a matter-of-course with all my gear, but this pack might take some time.  I'll update as things go on.

I have removed the pack from the frame, and subjected it to a minute, inch-by-inch going-over and thread/melting/searing procedure.  This pack is miles ahead of any GI ALICE pack in terms of construction and materials.  Even the stitching reinforcement that TT offers for the ALICE packs is not needed because LBT used superior construction techniques.

However, there is one minor area that deserves some attention.  There are six external pockets on the pack.  At the top, inner corners of the body of each pocket there is material that was, in my opinion, insufficiently seared/melted.  This area gets some wear and tear, being at the top of the pocket, and so a little work with a bic lighter in these spots will prevent any unravelling in the future. Maybe 30 seconds per pocket.  Aside from many loose threads--as one might expect-- there was little searing required, as LBT wrapped the edges of the sewn body panels with grosgrain ribbon, which is the norm for well-made packs. 

One other minor item is the elastic strap-management loops had unraveled on the inside.  Turn the loop inside-out, and sear/melt the fabric before it unravels completely, and the loop' falls apart.  This is very common on virtually all elastic loops of this type.

The shipment of dye (for the waist belt and other things) arrived today, and the correct frame ought to be here today as well.

Thank you all for your helpful responses.  I have received the DE 1606MC frame, and modified it to fit the LBT pack by hacksawing off the ends of the side supports, stopping at the first vertical reinforcement.  A bit Dremel sanding, filing, and sandpapering, and the frame fits the LBT perfectly, with no sharp edges to damage the pack, and most importantly, no adverse effects on the frame itself.  As mentioned before, these side supports were originally intended as anchor points for the MOLLE/FILBE packs, and are superfluous for the LBT pack..  The Desert camo Sustainment pouches, after successfully testing for fit, and the Desert Camo MOLLE II waistbelt have been dyed to match the overall hue of the camo pack.  Eventually, I'll replace all of them with Multicam/OCP equivalents, as they become available.  Just now we are in a dry spell.

I am now coating all the sew-throughs on the pack lid and pack body with Gear Aid brand "Tent Sure Tent Floor Sealant".  This is an experiment to see whether water ingress caused by the multiple sew-throughs on PALS-equipped packs can be eliminated, or at least greatly reduced.  Preliminary tests using a garden hose sprayed on treated vs. untreted PALS sew-throughs have been very encouraging.   Of course, even if this experiment is a complete success, there will still be the need to put water-sensitive items into appropriate bags, but it should greatly reduce the amount of water entering the pack body and its' pockets, and that should be a Good Thing.  There is almost zero weight added (perhaps a gram), and the treatment ought to be more durable than spraying the pack with DWR, which I also plan to do, as the DWR sheds water that might be "held" or retained by the untreated nylon fabric.  The treated areas are invisible after the treatment.

My inclination at this point is to construct some compression straps for the ventral side pockets using the OEM side-mounted compression straps as anchor points for "Field-Expedient" repair QD buckles, and then connect them with 1" Multicam webbing.  The OEM side compression straps' webbing is sufficient to act as compression straps for the Sustainment pouches.

An OCP/Multicam USGI MOLLE waistpack is on-hand, and will attach to the bottom of the pack, if desired.  Mostly intended for Quick-Detach use for side trips in conjunction with the very small, detachable top lid, which can be worn as a pack.  I might make a frame sheet for the top lid, but certainly will add a sternum strap.

The OEM elastic loop strap managers will be replaced by Multicam Velcro brand "One Wrap" strips, since LBT conveniently sewed appropriate loops on the ends of all the straps.  The elastic loops will fail, but the One Wrap will be far more durable, as well as easier to use.

If necessary, I can see the CamelBak Lumbar bladder fitting into the OEM radio pouch within the LBT back, with ease.   https://www.camelbak.com/en/military/gmi-packs/reservoirs.  I'll be investigating, for sure.

More later.    

Yeah, I "revise and extend" my comments as-needed, and as I think of things I might have left out.  I prefer to think of it as "added content" as well as corrections.

Sorry if my doing so annoys you.  Not my intention.

Oh.  Well, had a death in the family recently, and so lots to do since then.  I'll post some pix when I have some time,  Shouldn't be too long.

With the warmer weather allowing other projects to be undertaken, and family obligations, I have been a bit lax in posting pix of the completed pack and 1606MC frame ensemble.  Might be 2 weeks or so.

It's coming together nicely.  I've been working on sealing the sew-through--and there are lots of them--and that takes time.  Not to mention an invisible, as opposed to non-existent, improvement.

The very large LBT PALS/MOLLE sleeping gear bag that can be attached to the bottom of the pack needs a little reinforcement via straps to be secure and wobble-free.

I WILL post some pix, but please be patient, OK? 

 

 


Above are the pictures of the two Down East frames Suitable for the LBT pack under discussion, the 1606 USMC frame, and the 1606 ABN frame.  The USMC frame is the one that has a Multicam MOLLE II waist pad attached.  The main difference between the two frames is that the USMC frame has some stiffening ribs added to the vertical central arms, presumably to provide additional torsional stiffness.  There also some differences in the top center horizontal portion of the frame which are probably due to the slightly different USMC shoulder pad attachment.

The Pix show the shortened and filed/sanded arms on the sides of the frame USMC frame; this was necessary as the arms, as they were, were a bit too tight a fit for my liking.  The frame, uncut, actually can be forced into the shoulder pad pocket, but is far too tight for my taste, lying directly alongside a major seam. of the pack, and also right at the terminating point of the shoulder pad.

The primary impetus for this change to a different frame and waistpad was that I believe the 1606 frame to be more durable and more armor-friendly than the OEM ALICE frame, as well as the MOLLE II Waistpad being a better load-carrying waistpad than the OEM waistpad.  Not to mention that the construction of the OEM/LBT waistpad is such that it cannot be transferred to the DE USMC frame.   I would reckon that most folks could use the pack satisfactorily with no alterations to the frame.  If one is dedicated to the metal ALICE frame, there are units made much better than the GI frame; That by Tactical Tailor being one that I have handled.  There are other good ones as well. 

I used a hacksaw for initial cutting, a wood rasp for rough shaping, a coarse file for intermediate shaping, and sandpaper for final smoothing.  Took about an hour or so, being very careful to cut right, and not remove too much material while shaping.  I also went over the whole frame, using a Dremel tool with fine sanding drum to remove unwanted flashing, especially from any strap attachment ports/points.   I suppose a perfectionist would have fine-sanded the worked-on areas and polished them so that the frame would have appeared to have never been cut, but this is enough without being too much work.

As time and circumstances allow, I might post some pix of the rig mounted on the frame, along with the dyed MOLLE Sustainment pouches mounted.  Maybe also the LBT coyote brown Sleeping System pouch, although I am considering a Desert camo USGI MOLLE I Sleeping System pouch, appropriately dyed to match the general color of the Multicam rig.

@TxRabbitBane

Compression straps added for pockets added using field expedient QD female buckles in existing strap attachment webbing.  Adjustable male QD buckles and 1" multicam strap added.  So, the existing side compression straps (two for each side) are still there, but the upper ones compress both the middle of the sustainment pouches (if mounted), as well as the sides of the pack.   Lower ones compress only the sides of the pack, as there is nothing (as yet) attached to the PALS webbing on the sides of the pack under them.  The compression straps for the pockets are for the pockets primarily, and as an adjunct to the existing compression straps.  Pocket compression straps are captured under the webbing for the adjustable lid buckle, and can be removed instantly if not needed.  One horizontal strap for each row of pouches.

Seam-sealing of all sew-through has been accomplished, and it was a fairly involved process, even though the pack was constructed to reduce the number of sew-throughs.  I will have to rig up some sort of test to see of it was worth it, and I'll use two LBT sleeping bag pouches to do it.  Stay tuned; might take a while.  Yes, I know this is the reverse of the scientific process, but I believe it will be shown that the process was, in fact, worth the time and trouble.

Because this pack has most of the free-standing ends of the OEM adjustable webbing having sewn-in loops, I have experimented with using Multicam Velcro One-Wrap as strap keepers, and with some success.  More on that later.  Teaser:  Best strap management system ever.