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Link Posted: 9/12/2017 6:15:52 PM EDT
[#1]
After discussion with the inspector and the Mrs and I talking about our options, we will NOT be putting the power back to the old house. 

The old house would have to be brought up to current code now. This house is 135+ years old. We are moving out of it. Not worth it for 3 weeks still living in it.

So, we are on generator power until we move into the new house, which isn't hooked up yet. 

I guess we will see how long that Champion will run 

On the plus side, this month's electric bill should be very low 
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 6:49:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Can you take some amp measurments while dufferent things are running?

Would be nice if ypu could see if it really matters how much electric you use or its mostly just the genny running
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 6:59:14 PM EDT
[#3]
No clamp on ammeter, sorry. My DMM isn't big enough 
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 7:01:45 PM EDT
[#4]
To say though, you can hear the generator CONSTANTLY laboring and letting off as different compressors/pumps/motors turn on and off.

My 3500 watt model (less on propane) can handle all these loads, some surge loads barely.

Once I throw the dishwasher, oven, window air conditioners (takes 3 to cool everything here), or other big loads in the mix, that big Champion does grunt.
Link Posted: 9/12/2017 8:20:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
To say though, you can hear the generator CONSTANTLY laboring and letting off as different compressors/pumps/motors turn on and off.

My 3500 watt model (less on propane) can handle all these loads, some surge loads barely.

Once I throw the dishwasher, oven, window air conditioners (takes 3 to cool everything here), or other big loads in the mix, that big Champion does grunt.
View Quote
I'm running a 4k to keep fridge/freeze/electronics charged....

During this outage...

Dont tell my wife ...please you can run more 

Actually..dont tell my daughter......lol
Link Posted: 9/14/2017 4:31:41 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm on day 3 of running my office on generator, because of the computers etc. it is a "special" Gillette Clean Power genset that was mandated by the people who control my IT stuff, puts out "nearly perfect" sine wave power or so they say.  Engine is 18HP IIRC.  I converted it to propane and its been running 11 hours with no stop then gets put into a very secure space at night.  

Average fuel usage so far is about 1/2 gallon/hour (using gauge % on bulk tank), at the office it is lights/computers and some floor fans, most light is fluorescent tube so not a huge load, biggest motor turning is the residential level refrigerator.  Manual for the generator estimated 1/2 gallon per hour at 50% load so I suspect it is right in line with that although I doubt it is even running at 50%.  Unfortunately nothing big enough to turn the 3 phase AC unit sitting in the grass

Looks like my 100 gallon bulk tank would run me in the neighborhood of 10 days or so if I was conservative and just heard from my LP supplier that they were able to make emergency deliveries the day after the storm using generators and had utility power yesterday so resupply should not be a problem.  Also talked to an electrical contractor buddy of mine who said he is going through 5 gallons of gas every 6 hours at home and that waking up at 3am to fill the generator sucks.  He's running a 10kw and using it to power a 3 ton central AC unit.  Not sure why he does not have a permanent standby but I bet he gets one.
Link Posted: 9/15/2017 2:21:05 AM EDT
[#7]
ive been thinking about getting a 100lb cylinder locally, whats the easiest ways to get them filled as the local company said they wont fill them at the house. and out of curiosity what is the wholesale cost you were saying earlier for propane
Link Posted: 9/15/2017 9:34:18 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
ive been thinking about getting a 100lb cylinder locally, whats the easiest ways to get them filled as the local company said they wont fill them at the house. and out of curiosity what is the wholesale cost you were saying earlier for propane
View Quote
Around here most companies will fill hundred pound cylinders at your house if you have enough of them to make the drive out otherwise you bring them to practically anywhere that will fill 20lb cylinder is any Co-op around here any propane company.
As far as my wholesale cost I'd rather not say just because you will never get that. I pay what the propane company pays buying wholesale and the only way you can get it for that price is to be a propane company or come from a propane company family like I do.
Link Posted: 9/15/2017 9:49:20 AM EDT
[#9]
So far the biggest pain in the butt in my opinion although my wife's opinion May differ is the hot water heater isn't on in the house for the last few days I've been asking and misses when she wants me to fix that but she's not in too big of a hurry simply because if we run the hot water heater it's going to take over an hour for that to warm up water but we can't run anything else and she's constantly using other loads. 
Since we have a dishwasher that heats its own water really the only thing I'm missing out hot water for is showering since it is warm enough outside we actually have a portable outdoor water heater for taking camping showers we haven't hooked up to our outdoor washing machine so we've been using that to shower outside.

Otherwise as an update everything else is boringly reliable. about the same fuel usage is about the same generator is running great just humming along fine producing good clean power. Generator gets his oil change every two days or about 50 hours and hasn't skipped a beat.
Link Posted: 9/15/2017 5:15:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 10:52:06 AM EDT
[#11]
Update:

I had to cannibalize my little adapter plug to use the 120VAC generator to make the generator cord. Its a $35 fitting at Menards, ordered one on fleabay for $10 shipped. Once the new fitting arrived, I can start using the little generator again.

The 9k Champion has been boringly reliable. Gets its oil change every 50 hours, nothing else done to it. Runs pretty much 24/7 unless we aren't home. Hasn't skipped a beat.

One issue we are quickly running into: heat. our house heat is all electric heat, which isn't much of an option. We are using a small electric heater on low in the bedroom (my special needs 3yo will not sleep under covers or with heavy pajamas, so the bedroom has to stay just right) with a built in thermostat, but otherwise I've had to break out the buddy heaters to warm up the house in the morning/evening. Low are dipping into the low 50's at night, and we have 40's for lows in the forecast in the forecast. 

Showers: until now, we shower outside. My wife hasn't wanted me to tear into the panel to wire up the hot water heater yet, but that will likely be done very soon for hot water in the house. Highs in the 50's some days is making showering outside...exciting....

My wife is keeping an eye on the interwebs for a cheap to free gas dryer. It will go in the new house permanently, but we would just set it in the porch on a temporary setup for use right now. Would allow us to do laundry as usual, as we have to unplug everything including the refrigerators (lights and low draw stuff like internet stays on) to run the dryer. Can't cook while dryer is running. Probably the biggest PITA right now.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:20:21 PM EDT
[#12]
I wonder what the issue is with using the electric dryer? I'm running the same Champion genset and it handles our Whirlpool Cabrio series dryer no sweat, we don't use the stove or microwave while she's drying a load but the rest of the house has been good to go with all other circuits live including the fridge and deep freeze out in the garage.

We bought that set of Cabrio's in the fall of 2011, maybe that dryer just uses less juice?
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 12:51:32 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
I wonder what the issue is with using the electric dryer? I'm running the same Champion genset and it handles our Whirlpool Cabrio series dryer no sweat, we don't use the stove or microwave while she's drying a load but the rest of the house has been good to go with all other circuits live including the fridge and deep freeze out in the garage.

We bought that set of Cabrio's in the fall of 2011, maybe that dryer just uses less juice?
View Quote
Probably uses less juice with the heating element than ours.. Our dryer, even on "low heat" is full heat on for a minute, then the heating element turns off. It isn't a steady lower BTU heat like I hoped it would be. We actually use high heat now just to get the clothes done faster. Our dryer is literally the cheapest dryer we could find that had moisture sensor drying, so we spent about $250 on it. 

On gasoline it can handle the dryer and fridges/freezers/well pump, but I did choke it off with too many of those running all at once (2 fridges and 4 freezers). Not worth the PITA, so I just unplug the well/fridges/freezers when we dry and keep on propane. We have a big enough pressure tank now, so we have about 30 ish gallons of water at ready and its only a couple hours of the fridge/freezers off.
Link Posted: 9/19/2017 2:13:26 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Probably uses less juice with the heating element than ours.. Our dryer, even on "low heat" is full heat on for a minute, then the heating element turns off. It isn't a steady lower BTU heat like I hoped it would be. We actually use high heat now just to get the clothes done faster. Our dryer is literally the cheapest dryer we could find that had moisture sensor drying, so we spent about $250 on it. 

On gasoline it can handle the dryer and fridges/freezers/well pump, but I did choke it off with too many of those running all at once (2 fridges and 4 freezers). Not worth the PITA, so I just unplug the well/fridges/freezers when we dry and keep on propane. We have a big enough pressure tank now, so we have about 30 ish gallons of water at ready and its only a couple hours of the fridge/freezers off.
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That makes perfect sense, I really hadn't given the dryer a second thought up until now but they are 6 years old and I wouldn't be surprised if that set goes south in the next few years. It was top of the line at the time but I'll make it a point to scrutinize it's energy settings when they need to be replaced.
Link Posted: 9/20/2017 5:33:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Regarding generator friendly appliances, our hot water heater (7 years old now) is a heat pump style that has never had the resistance heat elements turned on (they are disabled by a control pad menu item).  It only draws about 500 watts when running.  This allowed hot water even when we were using the portable genny prior to the whole house unit.   For a non-gas unit, it probably a lowest draw option.

Nick
Link Posted: 9/25/2017 11:27:19 AM EDT
[#16]
The 9k champion did something odd yesterday.

Had all the usual unplugged for running the dryer. All was going well, when about 10 minutes into drying the generator died, almost like it was lugging too hard, but not quite. I was running on propane at the time.

I made sure all refrigerators and freezers and the well were unplugged, and fired it back up. Ran about 3 minutes, died. Thinking it was maybe a propane regulator issue or some sneaky load was on, I fired it up on gasoline. Got it all smoothed out and turned the dryer back on. Same thing.

Gave up, switched back to propane, and quit trying to run the dryer. Generator has been fine, running as usual since, including running the oven.

Going to change spark plugs today. Didn't have time to pull it last night, but I did manage to rack up 500 hours on my generator this last few weeks...
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 11:14:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Week 3 update:

The Champion has been boringly reliable. Figured out what was causing it to choke out when running the dryer: a box heater was running upstairs. It was drawing 1300 watts (according to product specs) and that was just too much combined with the dryer. Other than oil changes (not always on time exactly), I have not touched the generator. The full synthetic 5w30 I have been using the entire time is working wonderfully, not breaking down even when I go 20 hours past oil change interval . Life happens .

Fuel usage has been a bit higher lately, about 14-16 gallons per day. Haven't been switching off to the little generator, as that is running the new house's lights right now and dragging it through mud and over trenches isn't fun, so it sits by the new house. On that note, since the entire house is LED lights (new house), having every single light on does not even make the 3500 watt generator blip in the slightest. I could probably run them all on my little HF 2-stroker generator without issue. Actually, I know I could. There are 18 LED bulbs, each at 13 watts. That is less than 250 watts. To light up the ENTIRE main floor.

Spent $40 at the local laundromat the other day. We had 6 commercial washers and the jumbo washer going. Took 4 of the big dryers (one was a bit over-stuffed I admit), but we got 3 weeks of laundry done at once. Its nice to have plenty of clothes and not bother much with laundry on generator power. That said, the PITA was the dryer being electric. We will have 2 sets in the new house, one will be gas. Running the washer was not a problem at all. Yes, we could have line dried a lot of the time early on, but we have a lot of birds around here, and when we line dry, there is always bird shit on the clothes. Not all the clothes, but its highly annoying. 

Doing the math, I have burned about 250 gallons (not pounds) of propane in 3 weeks of running. Current delivered price is about $125, so that works out to $315 retail if I were drawing off the big tank. Not bad really. However, weather was favorable, with only a couple days needing air conditioning, and only a couple nights needing some heat in the form of a box heater in the bedroom. One of my little 5k window units requires very little juice compared to what my Champion can produce, and I doubt it has much effect on the fuel economy.

Of note so far:
  • keep an eye on the weather. Changing oil in heavy rain is no fun, so it doesn't get done. Can even get water inside the crank case. Better to change the oil a bit early if that means its dry when changing.
  • use full synthetic oil. These generators don't have a 100% duty cycle. Although most of the time I am at MAYBE 10% capacity, that engine runs @ 3600 rpm 24/7. You can also get away with going a few hours over if you run full synthetic.
  • about oil changes: set an alarm to go off every other day on your phone. You would think its hard to forget to change the oil with that loud generator going all the time, but you get used to the hum. 
  • its strangely quiet when the generator is off. almost weird.
  • this generator has run through thunderstorms and downpours sitting outside. It doesn't care. I'm not worried about it being sheltered when in use during summer. Winter and ice may be a different scenario though. Ice could jam linkages and snow could clog intakes. 
Link Posted: 9/27/2017 10:29:06 PM EDT
[#18]
This is very interesting.  I just bought a generator and wondered what would happen if it happened to rain while it's running.  It says in the manual not to run it in the rain, but around here it can be sunny and clear and all of the sudden we are running out the door to put the car windows up because of a sudden and unexpected shower.
Link Posted: 9/28/2017 10:02:47 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
This is very interesting.  I just bought a generator and wondered what would happen if it happened to rain while it's running.  It says in the manual not to run it in the rain, but around here it can be sunny and clear and all of the sudden we are running out the door to put the car windows up because of a sudden and unexpected shower.
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Did this for our champion back before getting the whole house unit. Made from some trim metal, pvc & pop-rivets.  Legs come off to store & side panels can be added if heavy storm is known to be coming.  Used it during rain & snow events (from a pad by the walkout basement w/subpanel feed outlet - pic below is while main panel being modified for whole house gen, so direct supplying fridges, freezer, etc ...)







Nick
Link Posted: 9/29/2017 11:28:37 PM EDT
[#20]
So my back is killing me, and I decided to fire up the hot water heater and use our whirlpool tub. All is fine, water heater is heating, tub jets going. After about two hours of the water heater on, while I'm in the tub, the generator dies. So I put my sweat pants back on and wander out to restart it. Turns out, my 100# tank froze up, still about 1/3rd full. I flip it to run on gasoline, won't stay running on gasoline. It's starving for fuel. Drag another tank over, hook it up and I'm back in the tub. All is running fine again on propane.

Thoughts:
Need a manifold for at least two tanks at once.
Ran fine on gasoline a couple days ago. Hmm.
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 8:48:42 AM EDT
[#21]
This is what I use when hooking the Champion 7K to the AC-225 welder:



It is a "Mr. Heater" manifold w/POL male/female ends and a POL -> QCC1 adapter (both from amazon, $32.99 & $12.99, respectively). The manifold came with short hose with male POL ends.  I think I have seen the Mr. Heater manifold at Tractor Supply in the section with gas heater parts, not sure if they have the POL -> QCC1 adapter, though.

Nick
Link Posted: 9/30/2017 9:03:36 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
So my back is killing me, and I decided to fire up the hot water heater and use our whirlpool tub. All is fine, water heater is heating, tub jets going. After about two hours of the water heater on, while I'm in the tub, the generator dies. So I put my sweat pants back on and wander out to restart it. Turns out, my 100# tank froze up, still about 1/3rd full. I flip it to run on gasoline, won't stay running on gasoline. It's starving for fuel. Drag another tank over, hook it up and I'm back in the tub. All is running fine again on propane.

Thoughts:
Need a manifold for at least two tanks at once.
Ran fine on gasoline a couple days ago. Hmm.
View Quote
Probably iced the carb up, specifically the low voltage solenoid on the gas side wasn't opening all the way.

That manifold Nick posted is a great idea, I need one just in case I go long term with propane all I have are single 100# bottles in storage and two 20's and I've seen them freeze up using my turbo heater or shrink wrap torch.
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 7:32:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Tried running the clothes dryer today, no dice. Would die on propane. I switched to gasoline and it definitely has a fuel system clog. Come to find out, there is no fuel filter on this thing! Once this is all said and done, be I'm going to clean the carb and add a fuel filter to avoid this.

I decided to clean and re gap the plug, and now it is once again producing enough power on propane to run the clothes dryer. The plug is still the original Oem.

Inspector coming on Tuesday, hopefully that will put an end to generator living, right at 4 weeks.
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 8:01:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Appreciate the updates.  It is amazing how using something here and there does not let you realize what will be needed if you had to rely on it for a month.

On the "no filter" I think a thread we had on the honda invertor generators had an article on adding an hour meter on it and a fuel filter into the system and maybe some other stuff as well.

I wanted a couple old 100lb propane tanks a neighbor wanted gone, friend had been told to get rid of em by the neighbor.  My friend gave me the tanks but smiled as he unhooked the lines and regulator and what not.

He is sort of on grid these days but still acts like he is off grid a lot.  A good regulator and what not sized to handle a lot of volume meant a whole lot to him.

He already had a bunch of various propane tanks, even a weird sized one he called a pig, not a 500 gallon sized one but was a lot bigger than the 100lb ones I consider big but can handle moving.

He has a bobcat, so he can handle moving such things as needed.
Link Posted: 10/1/2017 9:19:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Forgot to mention I saw the propane tank icing issue by putting the tank about 12 to 16 inch in front of the exhaust of a generator. At that distance it's not hot anymore but it's a nice warm air coming through and it keeps the propane warm enough to vaporize properly.
Link Posted: 10/2/2017 1:54:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah, I forget that propane ices pretty easily at times.  Was at a friend's place in the winter and we had some minor issues and with just the big buddy heater running on one of the little tanks, or both if it won't run on one, I always say frost on the outside of it.

I got myself a dual fuel generator this year, 10k watt, and I am going to have to up my propane game to run it properly.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 3:44:49 PM EDT
[#27]
We passed inspection! Now we get the power turned back on!!!

Its only been 4 weeks on generator power 
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 4:58:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Completion update:

Just talked to the Co-Op, the crew will be out in the morning to turn us back on. That will be 29 days off-grid running generator power.

I suppose it isn't completely over, as we only have power to the new house, which isn't done yet. The old house will still be off-grid until I re-wire it and put in a new panel to replace the old one that is in desperate need of replacement. That won't happen until probably next year, but the house will just sit empty until then.

At any rate, it was an eye opening experience. Some of my take away thoughts:
  • Whole house transfer switch. Seriously, just dot it. We went the cheap route with the double feeder breaker and lockout bar thing. Its a $150 project, provided you do your own work (its easy).
  • You need more fuel than you think if you want to live life as normal. I went through about 10-11 gallons per day switching between the big and small generators (we ran 24/7) and about 17-18 gallons per day running just the big one. This was all propane.
  • If you have a lot of fridges/freezers, cycling them is a full time job. We have 4 chest freezers, 2 fridge/freezers. After being off for a few hours, they all need to run. That amount of startup is a significant, so you either need to stagger the breakers or have enough generator to handle it. Its best, in my experience now, to have enough generator to run them all simultaneously.
  • Hot water is awesome. Went 3 weeks without it, have it on a limited basis the last week.
  • Constant power on/off periods screw with the softener schedule. It is supposed to run at about 2am, but it's clock changes constantly. Shouldn't use water when its going, or you fill the water heater with hard water.
  • All electric houses are a major liability. Our old house is all electric. It necessitated a much larger generator than we could have otherwise gotten by with. With gas appliances, we could have easily just used our 3500 watt generator with little to no load management. With load management, we could have gotten by with probably 2500 running watts.
  • The big well pressure tank is niiiiice. I get about 30-40 gallons of water in between pumping. This was a new addition during construction. Our previous pressure tank was the smallest made. Now I have the second largest I can get my hands on, 86 gallons IIRC.
  • We were BARELY able to run our electric clothes dryer on our big generator. Consider that appliance dead unless you have AT LEAST 8000 running watts, and then maybe. High heat/low heat made no difference on draw, but our dryer is a cheap one. Yours may differ. Oh, the Mrs REALLY doesn't like not having a dryer on command.
  • The Champion 9k duel fuel ran exceptionally well, given it isn't designed for this duty cycle. I changed the oil every 50-75 hours (spec is 100 max) with full synthetic Valvoline 5w30. By rule of thumb, the oil always felt good yet at every change, but no oil filter on this unit.
Things I am changing based on my experience:
Since I am building a new house, I am making some changes based on this last month.
  • while we will have a propane furnace, I am adding electric heaters strategically throughout the house. The idea is if the furnace mechanically fails, I have electric. If power is off, the furnace should still be working (on generator power). If the power is off AND it took out the furnace, we can still use the electric heaters on generator power. 
  • We had always had in the plans to have two washer/dryer stations, one will be a gas dryer.
  • The downstairs kitchenette will have a gas stove/oven.
  • I will run wiring so no more than two freezers are on a circuit. This allows for better load control. All my freezers are currently on the same circuit.
  • We lost a few bulbs from the generator dying during overload or running out of fuel. Strangely, it was the incandescent lights that failed, while the LEDs are fine.
  • LED lights make a HUGE difference when you convert the entire house. I can light the new house for less than 200 watts.
  • Propane tanks, even the 100 pounders I used, still freeze up on cooler days and high demand. Will run a gas line from the large tank to the generator platform and make a manifold to run multiple 100 pound tanks simultaneously to avoid the issue. My quick fix was putting the propane tank about 16 inches from the exhaust, which worked very well in preventing freeze ups.
  • Having the adapter to run both legs of the house from a 120 volt generator was great while it lasted. Really did help save fuel. If the weather conditions are favorable, I could run all night on my HF 2 stroke generator, just running a fan and couple lights.
  • By week 3, the gasoline part of my generator would not work due to some clog in the fuel system. Upon inspection, there is no fuel filter on this unit. After we are done on generator power, I will take apart and clean the carb and install a fuel filter. I could have done that already, but had I needed to get a part or torn a gasket, we would be SOL while I waited on parts. To that fact, two is one and all that even applies to the same piece of equipment.
  • The generator needed a spark plug cleaning and gap setting by about 500 hours. Still the original OEM plug. Clean and re-gap brought back performance that was lost. I should stock more than 1 extra plug for the generator, that will change.
  • In general, everything is a mess around here from being moved around 3-4 times. I honestly can't find the spare plug, which is why I cleaned the OEM plug instead of replace. A: its good to know how to do those types of things, and B: If you can't find it, you don't have it. Going to invest in 5 gallon buckets and lids to organize all my shit. 
I wasn't able to take much for readings, we don't have a kill-a-watt or clamp on ammeter or anything. I will say that the Champion made much cleaner power than the Briggs 3500 watt. 

Other than that, feel free to ask any questions. I will answer them as best I can.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 8:07:26 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm confused as to why you had to cycle the freezers.  I think that my breakers are 15 amp?  If you're running all of your refrigerators/freezers on one circuit, I don't understand why the generator couldn't handle it.  My new Honda EU2000 has 20 amp breakers, so I would think that it would be able to easily handle the two freezers I have in the garage.
Link Posted: 10/3/2017 11:58:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Only an issue when trying to run the clothes dryer, and when I was using the small generator. The surge demand on 4 chest freezers simultaneously is considerable, be it only for a couple seconds.
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 12:29:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Okay.  That makes sense.  I have already determined that should I need to run both garage freezers and the refrigerator in the kitchen, I'd have to plug them in one at a time to avoid overwhelming the generator with a huge simultaneous startup draw.

Thanks for the lessons learned.  I'm new to generators and used one for the first time this past weekend so learning what worked and didn't for others helps a lot.
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 8:53:50 AM EDT
[#32]
when cycling between breakers by flashlight, a dab of yellow paint on the end of the breaker switch helps...
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 5:00:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Great writeup!!!  Thank you!  The large propane tanks freezing gives me something to think about.  It gets quite cold in the winter where I live and I need to plan for how to run my generator (same as your big one) without the propane freezing.  My #1 desire for a generator was to power the gas furnace in the winter so everything doesn't freeze.  This gives me plenty to think about...
Link Posted: 10/4/2017 5:34:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Great writeup!!!  Thank you!  The large propane tanks freezing gives me something to think about.  It gets quite cold in the winter where I live and I need to plan for how to run my generator (same as your big one) without the propane freezing.  My #1 desire for a generator was to power the gas furnace in the winter so everything doesn't freeze.  This gives me plenty to think about...
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Putting the tank in front of the exhaust worked, although I think some OSHA guy somewhere out there pissed his pants without knowing why...

Bigger tank and/or manifold setup is what you (and I) seek.
Link Posted: 10/5/2017 7:30:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Thanks for the insight. I've gotten rid of two electric water heaters, one electric range, and one electric dryer and converted to gas specifically to minimize power required for a long term outage. I think I've shed enough load my ac will work with my current generators.
Link Posted: 10/5/2017 10:04:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Completion update:

...
The big well pressure tank is niiiiice. I get about 30-40 gallons of water in between pumping. This was a new addition during construction. Our previous pressure tank was the smallest made. Now I have the second largest I can get my hands on, 86 gallons IIRC.
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This is excellent feedback, thanks.
I just procured a second 86 gallon pressure tank to add capacity to our system.
Link Posted: 10/5/2017 10:21:21 AM EDT
[#37]
As one last little "test" I'm running, since we are still living in the old house on generator power, is I hooked the smaller 3500 Briggs to a fresh 100lb cylinder and I noted the engine hours at 133. Will see how long it lasts, running 24/7. Will need to switch back to the big one to run the oven so the Mrs can pre-make all the oven meals for the day, but I will run that one on a different tank.

Will report back with usage once the tank dies.

Spending more and more time in the new house though, and I am moving the clothes dryer over today for laundry on demand again. Can't officially move in until some more inspections are done, but the family is spending a lot of time in there while I work on stuff. Once I get the water and septic hooked up, we will move the oven and have meals over there. That should be by the end of the weekend.
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 10:24:35 AM EDT
[#38]
THE CHAMPION IS DOWN!!!!!

While we have power to the new house now, we aren't allowed to hook up the old house (panel must be replaced/brought up to code) which is where we are sort of still living while I work this week to get the septic hooked up so we have plumbing. We did move the dryer (our biggest 240 load), the well pump, and the freezers to the new house, but otherwise we do still actually run on generator power for the oven/fridge/internet/lights. 

Last night at 12:30 (my wife was still up with our 3 yo), the generator dies unexpectedly. Just like you flipped the switch or turned off the propane. She gets me out of bed, I turn off the water heater (we were running the big Champion to have hot water for showers in the morning) and go out side and it fires right back up. I could/should have switched to the small generator, but that involved moving the long hose/regulator to the other 100 pound tank/generator. I didn't feel like it, so I hook the house back up and go to bed. I just fall asleep again at 0100 and the generator dies suddenly again. No big loads on, just like you flipped the switch. Great.

So I go outside and switch the hose/regulator to the other tank and 3500 briggs generator, fire it up and go back to sleep.

I have not done ANY diagnostics yet, but my guesses in order: fault with low oil shutdown. fault with vaporizer/shutoff. Not much on a propane system .

I can't run it on gasoline right now because that is clogged somewhere, so until I have time to tear into it, the Champion is down. Once I do get it running on gas, I can isolate if its electrical or in the propane fuel system. 
Link Posted: 10/6/2017 10:32:31 PM EDT
[#39]
So they oil was low on the champion. That is weird. It's not dropping it on the ground, so it's burning it. I added a half quart (holds a full quart) and it's running now.

Not smoking when it's running, but has a slightly funky smell. Kind of like burning in the paint on a fresh engine or something. Perhaps I have a leaking head gasket and the oil is burning off on the head? 

Hopefully I can shut it down for good here soon and see what is wrong.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 1:07:07 AM EDT
[#40]
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Quoted:
So they oil was low on the champion. That is weird. It's not dropping it on the ground, so it's burning it. I added a half quart (holds a full quart) and it's running now.

Not smoking when it's running, but has a slightly funky smell. Kind of like burning in the paint on a fresh engine or something. Perhaps I have a leaking head gasket and the oil is burning off on the head? 

Hopefully I can shut it down for good here soon and see what is wrong.
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Let it warm up at night and shine your Fenix or whatever across the head, etc, and you can probably see any oil leaking and being burned...

Glad you got your juice back on!
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 1:43:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

One oddity is that the clock on the oven is slow. It was an hour slow this morning. Kind of odd, but the only thing I can figure is that the clock in the oven uses the line hertz instead of having its own oscillator for clock function. Oh well.
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Yep.  The frequency of the AC power from the utility company is super reliable 60hz over any considerable period of time.  Crazy huh?  When the power goes out, my alarm clock has a 9V battery backup but it is never QUITE right when the power comes back up.  Turns out the clock uses a shitty RC oscillator when the power is out, and it is just not very accurate.  They could have put a quartz oscillator in it which would be like 99.99% accurate but that would drive the price up by, like a nickel.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 2:32:41 AM EDT
[#42]
I will wait patiently for the root cause of the oil consumption  At least the low oil shutoff works.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 7:08:13 AM EDT
[#43]
Without exactly knowing what engines are on the Champion Gens you have, my guess is they are 500 hour engines. Meaning they will start giving trouble and wearing out at about 500 hours.
This is common on the Honda clones and the likes.
The GX series Honda engines are rated at about 1000 hours or more before they start causing problems or oil consumption. While true the 500 hour or 1000 hour engines will go well past their hour rated life expectancy, You can expect oil consumption and parts failure.
I have found on the hondas and clone engines that replacement carbs are so cheap that I throw away the old carb and buy a new one for under $20 and not worry about cleaning the jets or replacing the float.
The rebuild kits for a Honda carb cost as much as a new after market carb. YMMV
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 8:53:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I will wait patiently for the root cause of the oil consumption  At least the low oil shutoff works.
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Don't honestly know when I'll get to investigating it. I'll just keep adding oil for the moment, I've got bigger fish to fry and snow is coming up fast.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 10:09:16 AM EDT
[#45]
A couple thoughts on your generator issues.

50 hours seems like a really high oil change frequency. It probably isn’t causing any issues, but you could probably go 100hrs or even 150hrs without any issues. I’d probably try 100 hours per oil change with a single viscosity conventional oil. It’s possible (but not likely) that your oil is foaming up and giving you a false low oil shutdown.

A manifold on 2x 100pounders is what you need to solve your freezing up problems. In theory, tipping your tanks slightly (not laying them down on their sides, valve still needs to be above the liquid level) should give you more wet surface area and keep it from freezing up. I’d still get a manifold though, they’re pretty useful with larger (350k btu) propane heaters.

Not knowing exactly what your setup is I can’t be sure, but sometimes when a dual fuel engine won’t run on gas after running on propane for an extended period of time it has to do with oil buildup at the mixer. If you pull the mixer apart you may see what looks like heavy nasty oil built up on the diaphragm of the mixer. I’ve been told that this oil comes in very trace amounts with the propane, but I’d believe that it makes its way there via the vacuum system as well, not really sure. Either way, it can effectively hold the diaphragm closed and choke the engine while attempting to run on gas.
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 10:56:33 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A couple thoughts on your generator issues.

50 hours seems like a really high oil change frequency. It probably isn’t causing any issues, but you could probably go 100hrs or even 150hrs without any issues. I’d probably try 100 hours per oil change with a single viscosity conventional oil. It’s possible (but not likely) that your oil is foaming up and giving you a false low oil shutdown.

A manifold on 2x 100pounders is what you need to solve your freezing up problems. In theory, tipping your tanks slightly (not laying them down on their sides, valve still needs to be above the liquid level) should give you more wet surface area and keep it from freezing up. I’d still get a manifold though, they’re pretty useful with larger (350k btu) propane heaters.

Not knowing exactly what your setup is I can’t be sure, but sometimes when a dual fuel engine won’t run on gas after running on propane for an extended period of time it has to do with oil buildup at the mixer. If you pull the mixer apart you may see what looks like heavy nasty oil built up on the diaphragm of the mixer. I’ve been told that this oil comes in very trace amounts with the propane, but I’d believe that it makes its way there via the vacuum system as well, not really sure. Either way, it can effectively hold the diaphragm closed and choke the engine while attempting to run on gas.
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100 hours is spec for oil change, but I went with every 50-75 because I'm pushing it past it's recommended duty cycle. The oil was actually lower when it shut down. I added a half quart, quart being it's capacity after a change.

Manifold will certainly help. Funny though, can your only supposed to use up to 30 pound cylinders according to they owner manual.

I'll assume you mean the oil deposits in the carb? I'll take it all apart when I am done with it. Will report back what it was, whenever the work actually happens. Lack of fuel filter doesn't sit well with me though. That will get changed.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 12:09:10 AM EDT
[#47]
I have the little brother of your big Champion(the 3500/4000). Your situation does beg the question. At what point do these generators need more than a new spark plug and oil changes? I've got to believe that after a certain number of hundreds of hours more serious engine overhauls are needed to keep it running.

As an electronics guy I can handle replacing a spark plug and changing the oil along with some very basic mechanical trouble shooting but thats about it so far. It may be worthwhile to up my mechanical skill set so I can be a little more self sufficient with these things when nobody is around to ask questions. Now where to start.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 8:48:48 AM EDT
[#48]
I know a good Onan engine needs attention at about 1k hours. It would not surprise me if it's time to grind the valves, seats, and re ring the engine since it's a Chinese engine. Assuming rings are available and they put in a steel cylinder liner, the cost would be just the rings. You could lap the valves, which is basically free.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 8:52:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Of course, it could be simple as retorquing the head down. I had to go past recommended torque on my Onan head bolts to keep them from coming loose and keeping the gasket sealing tight.
Link Posted: 10/8/2017 10:23:17 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I know a good Onan engine needs attention at about 1k hours. It would not surprise me if it's time to grind the valves, seats, and re ring the engine since it's a Chinese engine. Assuming rings are available and they put in a steel cylinder liner, the cost would be just the rings. You could lap the valves, which is basically free.
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Just don't make the mistake I've done in the past on high hour small 5 HP engines.
By the time I bought a rebuild kit and other parts needed I had about $100 involved not to mention my time. Then the engine would still give trouble here and there costing more money.
When now with Harbor Frieght and Northern tool selling Chinese engines so cheap it's easier to just get a new engine and Be set for another 500 to 1000 hours depending on which engine you get.
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