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Posted: 4/26/2016 7:58:16 PM EDT
[#1]
The only advice I will give is don't try to get rich by raising goats or chickens and keep you numbers pretty low. You may want to build a little pig pen in the corner and raise some bacon as well. They are super easy. Feed em slop and corn!
Congrats on the land |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 7:59:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Also, rabbits are easy as well and provide good fertilizer
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:00:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Goats are pretty good as long as you have VERY sturdy fencing. Wife raised goats; she suggests Nubians. They give a lot of high-fat milk, and are calm and friendly. Alpines will use the above enclosure as a tightrope, but the Nubians are far more docile. (She used T-bar metal stakes instead of the wood structure above.) The wire at the bottom will need to be staked down, as the goats will push under the wire. Goats love neighbor's trees!
She emphasizes security. Goats are smart and very strong and will break most any "jury-rigged" enclosure you make. She says don't use cyclone fence, but get cattle fencing. 
You will need a milking shed. And if you get a ram sheep, NOTHING will keep him enclosed forever. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:03:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, rabbits are easy as well and provide good fertilizer Chickens also produce fertilizer. A 'chicken tractor' shed moves evey season, leaving fertilized soil that has been rid of garden pests! 
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:05:52 PM EDT
[#5]
One thing first: Make sure that you can legally keep agricultural animals on your property. The law makes a distinction between pets and livestock.
Usually, one or two beehives are OK without a permit of some kind: 
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:12:31 PM EDT
[#6]
What type of vegetation do you have on that land? That would be one thing to think of first. Goats would be good as can get goat milk which is better for you than cows milk just tastes different. Plus goat cheese!
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:41:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only advice I will give is don't try to get rich by raising goats or chickens and keep you numbers pretty low. You may want to build a little pig pen in the corner and raise some bacon as well. They are super easy. Feed em slop and corn! Congrats on the land I don't really intend to market anything. Perhaps a little neighborly barter for some citrus or something similar. Thanks for the advice though. |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:46:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Goats are pretty good as long as you have VERY sturdy fencing. Wife raised goats; she suggests Nubians. They give a lot of high-fat milk, and are calm and friendly. Alpines will use the above enclosure as a tightrope, but the Nubians are far more docile. (She used T-bar metal stakes instead of the wood structure above.) The wire at the bottom will need to be staked down, as the goats will push under the wire. Goats love neighbor's trees! http://www.factzoo.com/sites/all/img/mammals/bovid/goats/fat-nanny-goat.jpg She emphasizes security. Goats are smart and very strong and will break most any "jury-rigged" enclosure you make. She says don't use cyclone fence, but get cattle fencing. http://sierrafencetx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4-foot-cedar-cattle-panel-fencing.jpg You will need a milking shed. And if you get a ram sheep, NOTHING will keep him enclosed forever. When we bought the house, it actually was set up for horses with very sturdy cattle panel fencing that"s actually welded together.. I have a 2500 sq ft steel pole barn that's split between an arena, and a corral sized for one horse. The acre it self is cinderblocked around the entire perimeter, with the house being separated by a chain link. I've heard Ram Sheep can get pretty crazy and cause some pretty serious damage lol. I'm thinking mainly for meat, but I'd love a dairy goat for milk. Thanks for the links and the tips! |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:47:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing first: Make sure that you can legally keep agricultural animals on your property. The law makes a distinction between pets and livestock. Usually, one or two beehives are OK without a permit of some kind: http://hivemind.co.nz/static/images/beehives.jpg Great idea about the chickens. I hadn't thought of it. As for legality, we have awesome covenants here. No restrictions. Rare for the city lol |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 8:57:11 PM EDT
[#10]
sheep
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Posted: 4/26/2016 9:30:54 PM EDT
[#11]
That's not a lot of land once you start putting animals on it IMHO. I'd do 1/2 acre garden then go with some chickens and rabbits, maybe a goat or pig.
How are you set for water? Do you have your own well or are you off city water? |
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:12:01 PM EDT
[#12]
I live on a couple acres in Phoenix too. Had 20 chickens for years. Cus of the heat make sure your chickens are a light color, red sex links was great here. Look up the permaculture guild here. They have a coop tour of coops all over Phoenix. The cheapest feed is going to be at rural walmarts, the anthem and carefree hwy/cave creek walmarts carry chicken/goat/horse/pig feed. Make sure and get your chicks from feed supply places, stay away from buying from pet stores and tractor supply.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:19:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Make sure to build coop secure, bobcats and coyotes can be a problem. Buy metal drywall lathe at Home Depot. It comes in two ft by 6 foot , bend it in half long ways and bury one half under quarter inch minus and wire top half to water ever your using for walls. The lathe is very sharp and cuts up their paws when they try to dig it up. Be prepared for hundreds and hundreds of birds hanging around coop cus of the water for the chickens and the chicken feed.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 10:28:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Regarding store bought food preps we have a honeyvile grains store in the valley, great people and great prices.
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Posted: 4/26/2016 11:25:38 PM EDT
[#15]
I didn't read the comments, so please forgive me if I step on toes, repeat info, or ignore something else important.
1.25 acres isn't a lot when you start talking food production, especially livestock. That said, I would do something like this:
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:04:17 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of vegetation do you have on that land? That would be one thing to think of first. Goats would be good as can get goat milk which is better for you than cows milk just tastes different. Plus goat cheese! Wife says that Nubian goat milk is closest to cow milk in taste. My sister raised Alpines. I had the pleasure of caring for them one summer  . (That's why I moved back into the city.) One thing about goat milk is that the taste depends on the food they eat; wild forage results in a much gamier taste than, say, Purina Goat Chow.
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:08:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't really intend to market anything. Perhaps a little neighborly barter for some citrus or something similar. Thanks for the advice though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only advice I will give is don't try to get rich by raising goats or chickens and keep you numbers pretty low. You may want to build a little pig pen in the corner and raise some bacon as well. They are super easy. Feed em slop and corn! Congrats on the land I don't really intend to market anything. Perhaps a little neighborly barter for some citrus or something similar. Thanks for the advice though. ARF beekeeping thread. Honey is wonderful barter material! Most people who are starting out with bees don't harvest much the first year; they tend to give away small bottles of it. Honey is much healthier than sugar, and has beneficial health benefits. For example, I put honey on a burn once; the pain went away immediately, and now there's no trace of a scar. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:09:34 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When we bought the house, it actually was set up for horses with very sturdy cattle panel fencing that"s actually welded together.. I have a 2500 sq ft steel pole barn that's split between an arena, and a corral sized for one horse. The acre it self is cinderblocked around the entire perimeter, with the house being separated by a chain link. I've heard Ram Sheep can get pretty crazy and cause some pretty serious damage lol. I'm thinking mainly for meat, but I'd love a dairy goat for milk. Thanks for the links and the tips! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Goats are pretty good as long as you have VERY sturdy fencing. Wife raised goats; she suggests Nubians. They give a lot of high-fat milk, and are calm and friendly. Alpines will use the above enclosure as a tightrope, but the Nubians are far more docile. (She used T-bar metal stakes instead of the wood structure above.) The wire at the bottom will need to be staked down, as the goats will push under the wire. Goats love neighbor's trees! http://www.factzoo.com/sites/all/img/mammals/bovid/goats/fat-nanny-goat.jpg She emphasizes security. Goats are smart and very strong and will break most any "jury-rigged" enclosure you make. She says don't use cyclone fence, but get cattle fencing. http://sierrafencetx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/4-foot-cedar-cattle-panel-fencing.jpg You will need a milking shed. And if you get a ram sheep, NOTHING will keep him enclosed forever. When we bought the house, it actually was set up for horses with very sturdy cattle panel fencing that"s actually welded together.. I have a 2500 sq ft steel pole barn that's split between an arena, and a corral sized for one horse. The acre it self is cinderblocked around the entire perimeter, with the house being separated by a chain link. I've heard Ram Sheep can get pretty crazy and cause some pretty serious damage lol. I'm thinking mainly for meat, but I'd love a dairy goat for milk. Thanks for the links and the tips! Don't say that to my wife and grin. She's nursing some serious pain in her hip from being rammed by a ram over 10 years ago. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:10:50 AM EDT
[#19]
I can't think of a worse place to try to attempt to hold out in, except maybe Albuquerque...
Get none, less to bug out with. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:11:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sheep If you do sheep, learn to spin. It's very relaxing, very Zen-like; when my wife is in a bad mood, I take her spinning wheel out, get her spinning some kind of fiber, and in about 5 minutes she's singing to herself. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 8:13:43 AM EDT
[#21]
With just over an acre, you have maybe three choices.
1) chickens. You can easily keep a half dozen birds in a small enclosure. A 4x6 shed with a small 6x6 outdoor run would be fine. The trick to chickens is to buy the largest waterer and largest feed hopper you can find. I run a six gallon waterer, and if I fill it before I go on vacation, I can easily be gone 10 days. When you get home, you can simply toss the eggs if it concerns you. 2) rabbits. I have no experience, but since they are frequently raised totally within enclosures, Its doable acreage wise 3) Bees. These take little room. Face the hive opening in a direction/path that isn't going to conflict with other uses. You can stand to the sides or behind easily enough. A small area about 4-6 wide and extended out about 6-8 feet from the entrance is sorta like the airport runway approach path: It gets busy. You may need to provide water in Phoenix. I've had my bees about 15 years. No issues. If you have field crops nearby (surprising how much AZ does, but its all irrigated) and those crops are sprayed, bees will suffer. Your best bet is the chickens. They do okay on scraps. Your biggest problem isn't acreage, its geography. You aren't going to be supportable in Phoenix. Period. Too little water. Too much population. No meaningful agriculture (in terms of food produced compared to population). If/when a system goes down (water for example), you cannot now obtain water sufficient to care for yourself, or your birds or your bunnies, or your garden. Example: Here in the North east, many simply let the chickens free range and they live largely on bugs, weeds and seeds. Not happening in the usual phoenix xerascaped back yard. |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 2:12:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your biggest problem isn't acreage, its geography. You aren't going to be supportable in Phoenix. Period. Too little water. Too much population. No meaningful agriculture (in terms of food produced compared to population). If/when a system goes down (water for example), you cannot now obtain water sufficient to care for yourself, or your birds or your bunnies, or your garden. Example: Here in the North east, many simply let the chickens free range and they live largely on bugs, weeds and seeds. Not happening in the usual phoenix xerascaped back yard. I don't know if you been to Phoenix.... I go there twice a year on business, my brother lived there forever, my Rents retired to S. AZ, etc. The problem is that Phoenix is encroaching / bull dozing some of the finest farmland in the world. The water is distributed mostly by gravity run irrigation systems. You CAN grow stuff in Phoenix. Arizona Ag Map Link showing Phoenix Problem I understand what you mean about not being sustainable in a long term SHTF scenario, but NY is not the best either. The American Dedoubt is widely considered the best area of the US for that. 
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:38:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can't think of a worse place to try to attempt to hold out in, except maybe Albuquerque... Get none, less to bug out with. Thanks for the insight, and incredibly helpful tip. Sorry my very first instinct isn't to dump everything and run. This isn't a BOL. This is like day to day. I'm not the kind of guy that wants to wait for the merde to hit the ventilatuer before I learn how to be self sufficient. Good luck with your plan though, guess we can't all live in MN. Thanks again. Ok, I'm only asking about where I live. I understand some would rather have me move-where? I have a bol, on the river with 90' of riverfront, less than 3.5 hours from here via seldom used county "highways". All of that matters not because I can't raise livestock there when I don't live there. I guess I appreciate the input, but it's not super relevant telling me to move lol. To be fair, people were existing here just as long as they have been existing in minnesota, new york, or where ever else. Moving to the sticks in some unknown state would just put me in a financial SHTF right now, rather than help prepare for a possible event later, so Phoenix is it. Back to the cool answers I've received- Thanks for the tips about lighter birds and coop construction. Rabbits are a good idea as well. I have eaten plenty of Cottontail, so I wouldn't mind raising some meat rabbits. I've also been checking out some Nubians for milk and cheese YUM! |
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Posted: 4/27/2016 6:57:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Frank Symptoms, did you guys find a class to learn or just look online? That sounds interesting. Thanks for the tip!
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Posted: 4/27/2016 7:00:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I live on a couple acres in Phoenix too. Had 20 chickens for years. Cus of the heat make sure your chickens are a light color, red sex links was great here. Look up the permaculture guild here. They have a coop tour of coops all over Phoenix. The cheapest feed is going to be at rural walmarts, the anthem and carefree hwy/cave creek walmarts carry chicken/goat/horse/pig feed. Make sure and get your chicks from feed supply places, stay away from buying from pet stores and tractor supply. AWESOME! That's right up the road, I'm basically at 49th Ave and Pinnacle Peak |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 2:24:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Frank Symptoms, did you guys find a class to learn or just look online? That sounds interesting. Thanks for the tip! You mean spinning? She's done it most of her life. I don't know where she learned it. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 1:12:21 PM EDT
[#27]
OP -
I live in NV on a little hobby ranch. I would recommend chickens to start with and then maybe goats. I have had both for 25+ years. As stated above get your chicks from a feed store. We use a purchased rabbit cage with a drop cord light (60 or 100w bulb) to raise them up to feathered. Most people around here have a completely enclosed chicken pen. Something like 8' x 8' x 6-8' feet high. This keeps predators and song birds out. Song birds & quail can eat a LOT... I have a 40' x 40' pen with 4' fence and no top with a big tree in the middle for shade. I lose birds every years to hawks and migrating Bald Eagles. Some times Yotes. We consider this as part of the game and buy more chicks. BTW - I have a full enclosed 4' x 4' x 4' covered cage in one corner to transition chicks to the main area. Magpies with kill the new chicks. We keep them in there for a month or so until they are bigger. The adult birds learn to watch for predators and will run under the covered area when a hawk casts it shadow. You could use Solar Cloth from Home Depot for shade. Goats: We use standard pasture fencing with T Stakes for the pen AND hot wire all around the inside. One wire mid level and one at the top. Goats have very thick skin and you need a STRONG shocker. We have Swiss Alpine goats - 125 - 150# males, so you might run two lines in the middle for smaller goats. 
WedgeLoc works great for building your pen - cheap and simple to install   
Gate Bracket You need to use a tension wire with turn buckle to offset the weight of a gate. 
Feel Free to ask questions! |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 3:00:14 PM EDT
[#28]
This is relevant to my plans. I have 1.3 acres in North Phoenix and plan to raise chickens and dairy goats.
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Posted: 4/28/2016 7:35:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is relevant to my plans. I have 1.3 acres in North Phoenix and plan to raise chickens and dairy goats. You might be right by me lol. IM sent |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 9:14:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AWESOME! That's right up the road, I'm basically at 49th Ave and Pinnacle Peak Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I live on a couple acres in Phoenix too. Had 20 chickens for years. Cus of the heat make sure your chickens are a light color, red sex links was great here. Look up the permaculture guild here. They have a coop tour of coops all over Phoenix. The cheapest feed is going to be at rural walmarts, the anthem and carefree hwy/cave creek walmarts carry chicken/goat/horse/pig feed. Make sure and get your chicks from feed supply places, stay away from buying from pet stores and tractor supply. AWESOME! That's right up the road, I'm basically at 49th Ave and Pinnacle Peak I know your area well. I use to live at 67th ave and happy valley. I'm currently in desert hills. That's west of carefree and north of carefree hwy. get ahold of me and I'll hook you up with all my chicken equipment for a case of beer. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:28:54 PM EDT
[#31]
I think your biggest issue with my reply was that you don't want to think for a second on how doomed you would be. Like, the kind of denial most people have about believing anything could cause all the good things to disappear or become scarce.
But to each their own. I never said anything about moving? You should stay right where your at, and away from MN. |
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Posted: 4/28/2016 10:53:15 PM EDT
[#32]
You guys are not too far from me. Only have a 1/4 acre right now. still deciding on staying in Phoenix , moving outside the city, or out of state. Looking forward to see how you set up on the 1.25 acres.
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Posted: 4/29/2016 12:32:13 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think your biggest issue with my reply was that you don't want to think for a second on how doomed you would be. Like, the kind of denial most people have about believing anything could cause all the good things to disappear or become scarce. But to each their own. I never said anything about moving? You should stay right where your at, and away from MN. Great place to live and grow stuff. We just happen to be the bleeding heart libtard capital of the midwest  |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:21:43 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think your biggest issue with my reply was that you don't want to think for a second on how doomed you would be. Like, the kind of denial most people have about believing anything could cause all the good things to disappear or become scarce. But to each their own. I never said anything about moving? You should stay right where your at, and away from MN. ? Yup.I'd be doomed. Completely and utterly hopeless.My AO would be a raging inferno and storm of nastiness. MN would remain unscathed. My head is so far in the sand I've never even considered the possibilities. Congratulations on all of your success. And thank you again for your valuable input, I guess I'll just go on and give up right now since my existence seems improbable in your calculations. You should write a book. There's millions of people living outside of your area that have no idea of their impending demise.Maybe they could all hole up in MN. That would be less people to loan flip flops out to here in the brutal AZ winters lol.
Thanks for the only bit of sound advice you've offered,I'll stay far away from MN. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 2:32:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Oh, actually my only problem with your reply was that it's irrelevant. It's also laughable that you assume I'm screwed and you're good to go.Wonder what Murphy says about that lol. But I won't make the same assumptions about you that you've made about me. I'll buy the first beer if you ever make it out this way.Take care
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think your biggest issue with my reply was that you don't want to think for a second on how doomed you would be. Like, the kind of denial most people have about believing anything could cause all the good things to disappear or become scarce. But to each their own. I never said anything about moving? You should stay right where your at, and away from MN. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 7:48:28 AM EDT
[#36]
hey guy... can we chill a little? Historically the survival forum has been helpful. Someone asks a question, we try to answer. Got a cheap shot, snarky comment or totally irrelevant 'contribution' to the post? How about we leave those in GD?
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Posted: 4/29/2016 8:29:34 AM EDT
[#37]
Khaki Campbell ducks if you want eggs. they lay around 300 eggs a year, and are good eating.
they forage like a champ and really dont need anything more then a kiddie pool of water once every few weeks. they wont sit on the eggs to hatch them though, so if you want some eggs to hatch, get a couple of Muscovy ducks to sit on the Khaki Campbells eggs. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 8:33:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Khaki Campbell ducks if you want eggs. they lay around 300 eggs a year, and are good eating. they forage like a champ and really dont need anything more then a kiddie pool of water once every few weeks. they wont sit on the eggs to hatch them though, so if you want some eggs to hatch, get a couple of Muscovy ducks. Interesting, slight hijack but how are their forage requirements and butchered weight compared to chickens? |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 8:59:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Khaki Campbell ducks if you want eggs. they lay around 300 eggs a year, and are good eating. they forage like a champ and really dont need anything more then a kiddie pool of water once every few weeks. they wont sit on the eggs to hatch them though, so if you want some eggs to hatch, get a couple of Muscovy ducks to sit on the Khaki Campbells eggs. Wow! That's a GREAT idea! Duck eggs are fantastic. I'm going to do some research today on where I can get some. Thanks buddy. |
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Posted: 4/29/2016 9:07:24 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow! That's a GREAT idea! Duck eggs are fantastic. I'm going to do some research today on where I can get some. Thanks buddy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Khaki Campbell ducks if you want eggs. they lay around 300 eggs a year, and are good eating. they forage like a champ and really dont need anything more then a kiddie pool of water once every few weeks. they wont sit on the eggs to hatch them though, so if you want some eggs to hatch, get a couple of Muscovy ducks to sit on the Khaki Campbells eggs. Wow! That's a GREAT idea! Duck eggs are fantastic. I'm going to do some research today on where I can get some. Thanks buddy. I've had really good experiences with McMurtry hatchery. |
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