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Posted: 9/5/2010 9:29:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 12:02:15 PM EDT by azsavage]
Probably not what you think. I think the economy is going to go from bad to worse. I think we are in for an economic plunge as big or bigger than the great depression - but thats not what scares me.

What scares me is we have forgotten what happened on 9/11 and who attacked us. We have politicians who who do not realize who the enemy really is. They would make Neville Chamberlain proud. What scares me is I have 15 year old son and we have no end to the conflict with Facist Islam in sight. The support the facists recieve from the "moderate" muslum population makes we ponder if the war is only against the facists (whether we fight them - they fight us with their finance of the facists).


Edit - Increased Font size - and moved back to old style editor, less to go wrong :)
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 9:51:36 PM EDT
The islamists aren't the only enemies waiting in the wings. Russia ain't really our friend either, nor is Red China. Looking to Europe, I see that area in Islamic control within twenty to fifty years, if it lasts that long.

The question isn't will we be attacked, it is who will queue up first? As our federal dipshits shovel us deeper and deeper into the bog, the opportunities will begin to present themselves, and those in the world who're still pissed off about how WWII ended will start taking advantage. And make no mistake, we aren't the industrial powerhouse we were when that cooked off.

And the saddest part of the whole mess is that there isn't a single fucking natural reason for that to be so.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 11:52:47 PM EDT
people who use tiny 8 point font for their posts don't scare me. they just make it hard to read so i move on to the next thread.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:40:39 AM EDT
I think that only about 10% of the people living around me remember/care about 9/11 and have a clue what may happen in the future. Everyone else seems to want to keep their head buried in the sand.
I think the builders of the mosque at ground zero want Americans to be outraged and come and make it a target and vandalize it or worse. Just so they can use it as a starting point or a rally cry of their agenda.
I'm scared too.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:49:35 AM EDT
I will never forget 9/11. I won't let myself.

As far as our enemies, we have to worry about violent muslims, communists, barbaric criminals, and the "hate America" crowds. And then there are the enemies OUTSIDE our borders, too....

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:51:01 AM EDT
And the headlines this morning is more spending. I just dont understand how throwing more money around is going to fix anything. Im not an economist, but it seems like our economy is propped up on money created out of thin air
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/06/obama-major-infrastructure-spending/
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:22:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cougargnw:
And the headlines this morning is more spending. I just dont understand how throwing more money around is going to fix anything. Im not an economist, but it seems like our economy is propped up on money created out of thin air.

And you said you aren't an economist... You summed up the United States economy very well! Don't doubt your economic know how!

I'm not on overly religious person but it sure does seem like we are turning the pages to Revelations... What with the economy, Islamic nutjubs, our own government hates it people and an invasion from the south. Yep, I'd say keep your eyes peeled to the sky, you might see four guys on horses.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:14:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 5:17:44 AM EDT by HistoryGradStudent]
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:04:48 AM EDT
Ignorance scares the fuck out of me. Our country has lots of it. Educate everyone you can.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:19:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:38:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:42:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tipsovr:

Originally Posted By cougargnw:
And the headlines this morning is more spending. I just dont understand how throwing more money around is going to fix anything. Im not an economist, but it seems like our economy is propped up on money created out of thin air.

And you said you aren't an economist... You summed up the United States economy very well! Don't doubt your economic know how!

I'm not on overly religious person but it sure does seem like we are turning the pages to Revelations... What with the economy, Islamic nutjubs, our own government hates it people and an invasion from the south. Yep, I'd say keep your eyes peeled to the sky, you might see four guys on horses.
White Horse:



Red Horse:



Black Horses:







Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:50:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 6:58:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.



Oh do tell wiseman. Please enlighten the readers here as to your VAST knowledge of nuclear warfare. Personally I could give two shits less what anyone thinks when we fly a few Tridents over their country. if they dont like it thats too bad. I say we fly a few INTO their country. Get my drift? if you show people you really are NOT to be fucked with then they wont.
The whole idea of OBL doing what he does (as well as the Taliban, Iran etc) is our whole bleeding heart approach to warfare. There was a time however when noone NOONE looked cross at the US. Hmm wonder when that was...
Oh thats right! it was post WW2 !! Now back to your resume .
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 7:05:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.



Oh do tell wiseman. Please enlighten the readers here as to your VAST knowledge of nuclear warfare. Personally I could give two shits less what anyone thinks when we fly a few Tridents over their country. if they dont like it thats too bad. I say we fly a few INTO their country. Get my drift? if you show people you really are NOT to be fucked with then they wont.
The whole idea of OBL doing what he does (as well as the Taliban, Iran etc) is our whole bleeding heart approach to warfare. There was a time however when noone NOONE looked cross at the US. Hmm wonder when that was...
Oh thats right! it was post WW2 !! Now back to your resume .


I am an ICBM Combat Crew Commander. While on alert, I am responsible for the withold and release of 150 Minuteman III nuclear missiles and $3.4 billion dollars worth of nuclear weapons and support systems. I have experience as an instructor for upgrading new ICBM crews to prepare them to control one of our nation's most powerful weapon systems. While not limaxray, I am very familiar with nuclear ops and planning concerns.

So unless you have anything similar in career experience, it's time for you to shut the fuck up and get back in your lane.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 7:09:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.



Oh do tell wiseman. Please enlighten the readers here as to your VAST knowledge of nuclear warfare. Personally I could give two shits less what anyone thinks when we fly a few Tridents over their country. if they dont like it thats too bad. I say we fly a few INTO their country. Get my drift? if you show people you really are NOT to be fucked with then they wont.
The whole idea of OBL doing what he does (as well as the Taliban, Iran etc) is our whole bleeding heart approach to warfare. There was a time however when noone NOONE looked cross at the US. Hmm wonder when that was...
Oh thats right! it was post WW2 !! Now back to your resume .


I am an ICBM Combat Crew Commander. While on alert, I am responsible for the withold and release of 150 Minuteman III nuclear missiles and $3.4 billion dollars worth of nuclear weapons and support systems. I have experience as an instructor for upgrading new ICBM crews to prepare them to control one of our nation's most powerful weapon systems. While not limaxray, I am very familiar with nuclear ops and planning concerns.

So unless you have anything similar in career experience, it's time for you to shut the fuck up and get back in your lane.


Well then! Guess you are qualified to speak of the technical terms of the subject but it does little to sway my opinion of our enemy, his capabilities and how long he is willing to drag this out.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:29:25 AM EDT
Springer and burlysoldier, GD is that way > and the Pit ^ thatwaway. If you want to argue, that is where it's done.

OP: the American public cannot retain anything of importance for more than a week. I am certain the Muslim radicals see this and also see our economy is in bad shape. If able, they will attack at a time that will economically kick our asses. Consider what would happen to Christmas shopping if terrs attack shopping malls just prior to Black Friday..

As far as Russian and China go, while the Russkis are not our best friends, they have a LOT of oil to sell, and we are the largest consumers of oil on earth. Also, the Russkis learned the hard way about far-left politics after 70 years of it. they are making money and are going like hell to do so.

I have my doubts about the Chinese. Yes, they are the world's factory row and are making money had over fist, and spending it on upgrading their military. While they have a LONG way to go, they are on the road and going like sixty to get there. Read Sun Tzu. the Chinese make no bones about it, the USA is their opponent and they train to beat our military. They are already on a war footing and they are taking us to the cleaners via economic warfare. When they squeeze the last dime out of is, they will start moving on their Asian neighbors and we won't be able to afford to stop them. They Chinese will never be able to defeat us so they will simply render us irrelevant.

I can readily see the Russians and the Chinese going at it. Whether it be by Islamic terrorism, economic collapse, incompetent leadership, or internal revolt, the USA will have to sit that one out. IMHO the world map will be VERY different in 30 or 40 years.

Oddly enough, the Chinese character that means "danger" also means "oppurtunity."

Strange days indeed.

Ops

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:40:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By azsavage:
Probably not what you think. I think the economy is going to go from bad to worse. I think we are in for an economic plunge as big or bigger than the great depression - but thats not what scares me.

What scares me is we have forgotten what happened on 9/11 and who attacked us. We have politicians who who do not realize who the enemy really is. ........


our economic future definitely scare me more than I rant.
without America's economic might, so goes Superpower status.

"fundamentally change America........."



on every anniversary of 9/11, the wifey and I have date night and watch United 93.
we have not forgotten.......
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:45:24 AM EDT
My sis-in-law said she was soooo scared on 9/11. I told her 9/11 is just a drop in the bucket and I still believe that. 9/11 is just a wake up call for alot of us but I really think what's coming is gonna be a knock out blow.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:50:41 AM EDT
We're in a depression but American Tenacity will prevail until Amargeddon that is.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:06:37 AM EDT
Nukes... wish they were never invented! Turning people to glass is all well and fine... but nukes have a worldwide effect. Youre not just removing a city from the map... youre contaminating an entire region of the world. Also... we're not the only peeps who have them. All some folks need is an excuse to release them at us.

Man... why cant we just go back to the days of the garand. Shit was a whole lot simpler!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:14:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 10:15:24 AM EDT by mattfoley]

Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
Nukes... wish they were never invented! Turning people to glass is all well and fine... but nukes have a worldwide effect. Youre not just removing a city from the map... youre contaminating an entire region of the world. Also... we're not the only peeps who have them. All some folks need is an excuse to release them at us.

Man... why cant we just go back to the days of the garand. Shit was a whole lot simpler!

Nah. Nevada is doing fine; and we nuked it a lot a few decades ago...


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/USGS_NTS_detonations.png
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:23:21 AM EDT
You know what scares me, that there may be a time when an open socialist is POTUS, and freedom loving people are all too happy to deprive others of theirs, and worse that the time I speak of is here now
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:32:21 AM EDT
Thought I would wade into the waters. If you read about OBL and the Taliban and Islamic Fundamentalists you will find out
theirs is a new kind of enemy. If we cut off the head of the dragon, three more pop up. They have a command structure that
only involves their own element so if we take it out, the whole survives. Its not like a war against a sovereign nation, whose military
has a command and control center. Lop that off and the military goes to shit.

On the theory of Nuclear Weapons, I think most people think in terms of City Killers. We do, as do many nuclear nations have tactical nuclear
weapons that are designed to render "PARTS" of the battle field untenable. The problem with Tac Nukes was if you were fighting an opponent
that also has them you could escalate into Strategic Nuclear War. Use of these weapons is a very delicate situation. The attitude of Lets Just Nuke Them
does not work in the modern age. Its like the bully beating the shit out of the 90 lb weakling, Sooner or later the rest of the playground is going to gang
up on you. We had to keep Israel in check during Desert Storm because they threatened to turn Iraq into a Glass Ashtray if they lobbed a Chem Weapon
at them. "Hey Mr. Bush (sr) you might want to pull your troops back say to the Med, just saying"

My .02 cents. Oh By The Way I was an NBC Specialist in a former life.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 10:38:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By azsavage:
Probably not what you think. I think the economy is going to go from bad to worse. I think we are in for an economic plunge as big or bigger than the great depression - but thats not what scares me.

What scares me is we have forgotten what happened on 9/11 and who attacked us. We have politicians who who do not realize who the enemy really is. They would make Neville Chamberlain proud. What scares me is I have 15 year old son and we have no end to the conflict with Facist Islam in sight. The support the facists recieve from the "moderate" muslum population makes we ponder if the war is only against the facists (whether we fight them - they fight us with their finance of the facists).


I'm not scared - I just can't read what you posted. Going small makes about as much sense as using all caps. All you are doing is making a bad impression so that when people see your post they move on without reading.

Use the normal fonts if you want to be taken at all seriously.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:42:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 11:51:12 AM EDT by Durango_USMC]
Originally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack:
And the saddest part of the whole mess is that there isn't a single fucking natural reason for that to be so.


I generally agree with you on most things but I gotta say this. I respectfully disagree there is a natural reason, its called greed. Its a natural human emotion. Greedy politicians, lobbyists, bankers, their puppetmasters, etc.. you name it if they have a little clout theywill do everything they can to benefit themselves and increase their sphere of influence. Plus it seems to be a natural instinct or curiosity for people to meddle in everyone elses business. Generally I just want to be left alone but what I keep realizing more and more is someone will always want something from me. Just be prepared for America to slip into a 3rd world country at this rate.

As for what scares me... pretty much everything I can't fight against enough to make a difference. Be it medical issues, the economy, the other BS that floats around, politicians, etc... read around here for a general idea.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:56:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 11:59:39 AM EDT by HistoryGradStudent]
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.



Oh do tell wiseman. Please enlighten the readers here as to your VAST knowledge of nuclear warfare. Personally I could give two shits less what anyone thinks when we fly a few Tridents over their country. if they dont like it thats too bad. I say we fly a few INTO their country. Get my drift? if you show people you really are NOT to be fucked with then they wont.
The whole idea of OBL doing what he does (as well as the Taliban, Iran etc) is our whole bleeding heart approach to warfare. There was a time however when noone NOONE looked cross at the US. Hmm wonder when that was...
Oh thats right! it was post WW2 !! Now back to your resume .


I am an ICBM Combat Crew Commander. While on alert, I am responsible for the withold and release of 150 Minuteman III nuclear missiles and $3.4 billion dollars worth of nuclear weapons and support systems. I have experience as an instructor for upgrading new ICBM crews to prepare them to control one of our nation's most powerful weapon systems. While not limaxray, I am very familiar with nuclear ops and planning concerns.

So unless you have anything similar in career experience, it's time for you to shut the fuck up and get back in your lane.


Well then! Guess you are qualified to speak of the technical terms of the subject but it does little to sway my opinion of our enemy, his capabilities and how long he is willing to drag this out.


OPk I'm not trying to incite a pissing contest but thats the way I feel about things. Let me just say this: Throughout time, warfare was conducted as a last resort, it was all or nothing fighting...no police actions, no metered responses etc. The problem I see is that ever since World War II is we have tried to reinvent the wheel when it comes to warfare...and where has it gotten us? Practially nowhere, Korea was a stalemate,Vieitnam turned into a political debacle and Carter's soft peddeling in Iran got us nowhere.
Once on the outside of Altanta, Sherman was quoted as saying " You cant stop them from hating us but you sure can make them hate war" so it apperas warfare was deigned to do one thing and one thing only and that was to vaquish your enemy as quickly as possible. In other words you made them howl. But since WWII this new warfare has gotten us??????
Sure you may be a nuts and bolts nuclear missle jockey but does that equate to policys which have lasting effect with America's enemies?
Oh dont think I'm some snot nose kid....I was a histrorygradstu a long time ago...I'm 50 now
But as far as flying over other nations territory. I would not have thought too much of it, we fly over pakistan each and every day with drones! Putin would not have gave a rats ass about those muzzies, They've had a belly full of them too....ie chechen rebels. China would have cared less they hate those muslims strring up crap too, they like a very controlled society in China without much external influences.
You dont see the Taliban stirring it up with the chinese along that sliver of a border they have between A-stan and China....know why? Because the chinese would roll in there and annilate their asses. Like I keep saying its easy to fight a very predictable enemy...predictable is what the United States has become.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:11:34 PM EDT
The OP mentioned his 15 year old son. His fear is not abstract or academic. It's not selfish self-preservation. It is generational.

In my mind, I have considered shooting the big toe of my kid before I will let his life be pissed away by the clowns in charge, in a war with people that are being encouraged to hit us by our own stupidity.

Patriotism is getting a little thin these days.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:55:01 PM EDT
I'd have to agree with springermania in that tossing a tactical nuke isnt just that easy. It's opening us up for something much greater than invasions and war itself as its been goin. Tactical nukes step up the game a BIG notch and changes war into a whole different animal bringing out the worst. Bringing nukes into the game means all bets are off and anything is game.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:10:06 PM EDT
Total warfare is a relatively modern invention. Throughout most of history, wars were fought much more stylistically. You fought when the rains weren't coming, or when the crops were in (can't have the peasants acting as ablative wounds for the aristocracy if they're busy growing the food, right?)

The last couple of hundred years changed that. The nuclear bombs were just the last in a long line of weapons "so horrible that war itself must become impossible" Hell, the caplock rifle was supposed to do that in the early 19th century! The belt-fed machinegun by the end of that same century. Air power at the beginning of the 20th.

Here's the thing about nuking the wahabbis and telling the rest of the world it can fuck off... You don't piss off the people who sell you your basic survival needs.

Maybe in the '50s we could have gotten away with it–– we still manufactured most of our own goods and exploited our own minerals/resources back then. Today? China makes most of our consumer goods. Canada, Mexico, and Venezuela sends us our oil. Mexico refines a good chunk of our gas, Japan makes a mess of our steel. In 2009, we imported fucking WHEAT!

The only thing left that we generate indigenously is debt. We're not even self-sustaining for food, let alone energy. If we piss off the whole world, debt will not exactly become an asset. Unless and until we re-establish an industrial base (a decade long endeavor at best) we're pretty much fucked for chest beating power.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:16:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By burlysoldier:
Originally Posted By springermania:
Originally Posted By HistoryGradStudent:
I think the economy will dip just a pinch more but will rebound. Keep in mind there are those who have lots of money and hate sitting on the sidelines not making more...they will get tired of just waiting and will eventually jump back in.
As far as 9-11 goes I honestly believe GW Bush blew it! The reason so? Well, before the dust settled on the twin towers Bush should have gotten on the phone to a boomer sub captian sitting quietly underneath the Arabian Sea and told him to get target aquisistion on the Tora Bora Region were Bin Laden was either there or going there to get holed up. IF Bush would have hit that palce with 2-3 tactical nukes it would have sent a clear message to the islamic world that if you screw with us, we will make you howl. So what is it worth to you?
Bush could have clearly shown America's reslove for the next 50 years.....but now or enemies know or social/moral structure...in other words when you hit us in such and such way, we will respond in a metered fashion.
To me that is a dangerous postion to be in, alowing our enemies to be able to predict our response. I would much prefer if the Islamic world saw America as half psychotic, ready to use nuclear munitions at the drop of a hat.

As a side benefit, had we hit tora bora with tactical nukes, we would have never had to of invaded Iraq...Saddam's asshole would have been drawn up so tight that you couldn't have shoved a pin up it! He would have closed all the elementary schools within 30 miles of the no-fly zone in fear of some kid violating it with a paper airplane.




It's a good thing you're not a national decision maker. And I'll politely wait for you to tell me the composition of our tactical nuclear force.


I disagree and think HGS is correct. We'll be fighting these people for eternity. Better to nuke them now than 150 years from now after we've lost absolutely whatever remains of our republic.



There are more implications with the utilization of nuclear weapons than just "lets nuke 'em all!" Nukes, due to their destructive power and political implications, require much more serious consideration than you guys are proposing.

And another point, go read the NPR and tell me how many tactical nuclear weapons are available for execution. So unless you are willing to overfly other soverign nations with a Trident D5 to handle the situation in a completely asymetric fashion, maybe nukes aren't the best idea.

Either way, it's clear neither of you have any experience with nuclear weapons.



Oh do tell wiseman. Please enlighten the readers here as to your VAST knowledge of nuclear warfare. Personally I could give two shits less what anyone thinks when we fly a few Tridents over their country. if they dont like it thats too bad. I say we fly a few INTO their country. Get my drift? if you show people you really are NOT to be fucked with then they wont.
The whole idea of OBL doing what he does (as well as the Taliban, Iran etc) is our whole bleeding heart approach to warfare. There was a time however when noone NOONE looked cross at the US. Hmm wonder when that was...
Oh thats right! it was post WW2 !! Now back to your resume .


I am an ICBM Combat Crew Commander. While on alert, I am responsible for the withold and release of 150 Minuteman III nuclear missiles and $3.4 billion dollars worth of nuclear weapons and support systems. I have experience as an instructor for upgrading new ICBM crews to prepare them to control one of our nation's most powerful weapon systems. While not limaxray, I am very familiar with nuclear ops and planning concerns.

So unless you have anything similar in career experience, it's time for you to shut the fuck up and get back in your lane.


You're qualifications don't seem to include policy making, so i'd say yourion weighs about the same as the average joe here.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:20:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrunkTank:
Nukes... wish they were never invented! Turning people to glass is all well and fine... but nukes have a worldwide effect. Youre not just removing a city from the map... youre contaminating an entire region of the world. Also... we're not the only peeps who have them. All some folks need is an excuse to release them at us.

Man... why cant we just go back to the days of the garand. Shit was a whole lot simpler!


The days of the Garand are WHEN we used the nukes!
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:35:49 PM EDT

We'll be fighting these people for eternity.



Quoted for it's truth. Islam and Christianity/Judaism have been at it for what, 1000 years? It's not gonna end. I don't believe it's the religion of Islam that's to be blamed, but rather the people who use their religion as justification for whatever fanatical actions they take.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the concept of the Jihad was "It was only within Arabia, where a crude form of idolatry was rampant, that Islam was propagated by warring against those tribes which did not accept the message of God––whereas Christians and Jews were not forced to convert."

People have been murdered in the name of God for countless centuries. It's organized religion that is to be blamed.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:51:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:

We'll be fighting these people for eternity.



Quoted for it's truth. Islam and Christianity/Judaism have been at it for what, 1000 years? It's not gonna end. I don't believe it's the religion of Islam that's to be blamed, but rather the people who use their religion as justification for whatever fanatical actions they take.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the concept of the Jihad was "It was only within Arabia, where a crude form of idolatry was rampant, that Islam was propagated by warring against those tribes which did not accept the message of God––whereas Christians and Jews were not forced to convert."

People have been murdered in the name of God for countless centuries. It's organized religion that is to be blamed.


AMEN

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