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Posted: 9/1/2010 5:16:03 PM EDT
The "Fat girl brandishing a Marlin lever action while riding on a straining moped" thread made me think of my idea of a practical "all around" general purpose rifle.

My rendition is a Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester. I chopped the barrel to an even 20"s to make it a little more compact. It started with a 4.5x14 Leupold VX3, with an M1 turret, but I have settled on a NightForce 2.5-10x24 (NPR-2 reticle) in a set of Talley lightweight base ring combos.

Coupled with 1/2 dozen 5 round box mags, it has proven to be a lightweight, easy to carry all around joy. Due to its light weight I really have to concentrate and use good fundamentals when shooting from field positions, as compared to my easier to shoot heavy barreled guns. Sometimes you can get a bit sloppy with an 11 or 12 pound rifle. Not so, with a fly weight. That being said, it is no problem to ring steel at some pretty fair distances.

Link Posted: 9/1/2010 5:22:22 PM EDT
Big desert Jacks in the dead of winter make for some good exercise, as well as good practical practice!

Link Posted: 9/1/2010 5:32:17 PM EDT
I think the most practical "rifle" I ever owned was a marlin lever action in .44mag. Then again I dont live in an area of wide open spaces.

Now If I had to pick the most practical it would be a 12 gauge , modified choke.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:27:53 PM EDT
1894 in 30-30. I'm getting pretty quick with the action, the rounds is more than capable of taking game and it's accurate up to the 75 yards I've shot it at. Sturdy and reliable.

Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:33:19 PM EDT
I have a few lever actions that I enjoy as well.

Another variation is the Remington pump, such as the 760. My dad bought one (30-06) when he was in high school in the 1950s after working a good part of the summer bucking hay bales in Montana for the dough. I have shot a number of rounds through it and it impressed me with its quick action and natural pointing feel. One in .308 with some extended mags would be pure poison I would think.

I have seen pics of a couple of custom Rems set up as quick handling practical rifles. They looked sweet!
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:37:33 PM EDT
I have always wanted a Marlin guide gun in .44 mag. I probably won't pull the trigger until I buy another 44 mag hand gun. Its always in the back of my mind as something I would enjoy.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 6:59:08 PM EDT
I have a 16" Marlin 1894 in .44 mag. While it is definately cool, I do not use it that much. Out in the rural Rocky Mountain West the ranges get on the long side and the pistol caliber carbines are usually at a disadvantage in the all around arena. Still they are cool though.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 7:20:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2010 7:21:01 PM EDT by 505stevec]
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 7:52:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


If you're gonna carry a rifle, why not carry it in a rifle caliber?
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 8:30:08 PM EDT
I want the marlin guide gun in 45-70. practical? maybe in alaska but elsewhere not so much.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 8:58:21 PM EDT
check out the spanish FR-8 in .308 highly overlooked, mauser-type action , great sights , & cheap
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 9:28:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CATFISH25:
check out the spanish FR-8 in .308 highly overlooked, mauser-type action , great sights , & cheap

Not here they arnt ..... I found on years ago for under 300 , wish I would have got it.
Link Posted: 9/1/2010 9:31:31 PM EDT
When I first read your title, the rifle that I thought of was a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless in .308.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 1:46:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawk_308:

Originally Posted By CATFISH25:
check out the spanish FR-8 in .308 highly overlooked, mauser-type action , great sights , & cheap

Not here they arnt ..... I found on years ago for under 300 , wish I would have got it.


fixed it. lol

yeah under 300$ not in the "cheap" area anymore these days...
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:10:13 AM EDT
If your search is for the best “all around non-automatic” rifle for “survival” purposes and you anticipate the need to use this rifle in a fight I strongly recommend the Enfield No. 4 Mk. 2 in .303 British.

http://a.imageshack.us/img530/2221/smle.jpg

This rifle represents the last evolutionary step in bolt action battle rifle design.

This rifle is considered the fastest bolt action ever made.

It has an ammunition capacity of 10-rounds.

It can be rapidly reloaded using stripper clips.

The caliber is a serious full-rifle caliber with long-range performance and good barrier penetration.

These rifles were produced for military use and are constructed of forged steel components and held to military level quality.

A good place to start is to find one of these rifles that has been “sporterized” (butchered) and further modify it to meet your particular needs (scope, length of pull, barrel shortening, synthetic stock, etc.).

Please don’t take an otherwise collectable rifle and ruin it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:57:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 4:58:03 AM EDT by Feral]
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 4:57:40 AM EDT
Interesting thread and I have to be honest I have focused my self defensive rifles on semiautos to a degree that I really don't have a very good non-semiauto rifle for that role. The two that I have that are closest to that role is my Rem 760 Gamemaster which is a 1956 made 270 (first year gun) and with three magazines it would be a capable system but the barrel length is a bit long. My second system is already one of my SHTF guns in teh form of a Remington 700 in 308 that I have a Badger Ordanance detachable mag assembly on and an assortment of 5 and 10-round mags.

I have wanted to buy a lever action in 45 Colt to go with my sizable collection of 45 Colt revolvers and perhaps this is a good reason for me to consider this harder. God knows if I had to evacuate to New York or New Jersey that a great many of my guns and magazines would not be legal there!
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:07:35 AM EDT
Whatever you choose, it must be night-capable and come to bear fast.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:22:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


I've been thinking about that myself. It may be the perfect survival gun paired with a .38/.357 revolver. .38 brass can be loaded almost indefinitely using even the most primitive methods and supplies.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:49:52 AM EDT
Personally I like many parts of Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle concept. That being said, I have shot numerous scout rifles and the forward mounted scout scope leaves a lot to be desired in anything but optimal lighting conditions. The conventional method just seems to work better overall. A lightweight, fast cycling, bolt action can be a real joy when one is practiced. As much as the Enfields are nice rifles and well built, they are just plain HEAVY. For a rifle for around the homestead, that is no problem, but where I work, play, and am building my BOL, lighter weight gear rules the day.

Here is a pic from deer hunting a couple of years ago. I am at roughly 10,000 feet elevation and 2,500 feet above my truck. No place for a 10 pound rifle. My terrain also puts a lever action at a disadvantage. That being said, in the river bottoms or thick woods of other parts of the country they would likely be hard to beat!



Link Posted: 9/2/2010 7:52:30 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scrum:
When I first read your title, the rifle that I thought of was a Tikka T3 Lite Stainless in .308.


In your wet and cold terrain of much of Washington west of the Cascade Range, it would make a lot of sense. Of course on the dry side, it would make sense too!

Washington has some very diverse terrain for sure.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 9:29:39 AM EDT
For us more "Urban" dwellers, there is nothing like an 870 or a Mossberg 500 right off the shelf of your local sporting goods store... most versatile defense and survival gun available, IMO.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 10:44:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 10:51:48 AM EDT by Cacinok]
Originally Posted By Lost_River:
I have a few lever actions that I enjoy as well.

Another variation is the Remington pump, such as the 760. My dad bought one (30-06) when he was in high school in the 1950s after working a good part of the summer bucking hay bales in Montana for the dough. I have shot a number of rounds through it and it impressed me with its quick action and natural pointing feel. One in .308 with some extended mags would be pure poison I would think.

I have seen pics of a couple of custom Rems set up as quick handling practical rifles. They looked sweet!


a number of years ago there was an article in one of the gun mags touting the remington pump in .308 as an excellent survival rifle. dead nuts simple and reliable. very little to break. quick reloads. hard hitting versatile round, etc.

i have an enfield jungle carbine that would make an all around great non auto rifle. only negative is that the .303 is not available in as many varieties as the .308 - at least around here.

Originally Posted By Feral:
Well, if you want to talk about "practical rifles," I have to confess that in the last three years I have not once run to the house to grab an AR-15. I'm not saying it won't happen, but it hasn't happened yet.

OTOH, I can't count the number of times I've run to get one of these rifles, particularly the one on the bottom. They're all .22 LR:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/FredFeral/irons/IMG_0077.jpg


last few times i've run to the house to grab a gun or out of the house w/ a gun, a .22 wouldn't have worked so well. a week or so back, i was watering the garden and a short (3'), but fat copper head slithered out from under some sweet potatoes. the old steven's .410, that i found hanging in our attic, made short work of him - chickens ate what was left.

time before that, a coyote managed to get into our goat pen. i grabbed my sks and made a few unsuccessful attempts at ending his life. anything w/ a red dot would've been an improvement - it was 11pm and although there's a 500 watt light shining on the area, it was too high up and offset from where i was to light up the irons.

Link Posted: 9/2/2010 1:19:12 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 2:01:34 PM EDT
Funny, I never considered a SMLE to be that heavy. But then, I never carried one with half a cabin attached to it (military trim) Once you carve a significant portion of that lumber off them, they lighten right up. +1 to the difficulty keeping it stoked these days, though. The old Krag-Jorgensen was similarly a great rifle that you can't find ammo for.

Much as I like lever guns, it's hard to ignore that no military force that I can pinpoint has ever adopted a lever gun as standard issue, as compared to bolt guns, which virtually every country used prior to the semi-auto generation.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:05:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hawk_308:

Originally Posted By CATFISH25:
check out the spanish FR-8 in .308 highly overlooked, mauser-type action , great sights , & cheap

Not here they arnt ..... I found on years ago for under 300 , wish I would have got it.


I bought an FR7 cheap at a large outdoor sports store while I was on a trip to Maine. Based on the price I paid, my assumption is that the clark who tagged it didn't know what an FR7 was and priced it using the price range that would be more appropriate for a Guardia Civil carbine.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 6:13:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2010 6:15:47 PM EDT by JAD]
Originally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack:
Funny, I never considered a SMLE to be that heavy. But then, I never carried one with half a cabin attached to it (military trim) Once you carve a significant portion of that lumber off them, they lighten right up. +1 to the difficulty keeping it stoked these days, though. The old Krag-Jorgensen was similarly a great rifle that you can't find ammo for.

Much as I like lever guns, it's hard to ignore that no military force that I can pinpoint has ever adopted a lever gun as standard issue, as compared to bolt guns, which virtually every country used prior to the semi-auto generation.


Lee Enfields balance very well, even in full military wood.That helps them feel lighter than they are- of course, I'm the moron that does run and gun and hunting with a full 20" HBAR AR , so....I may be masichistic (or just young and fit enough to not notice). That said, Jungle Carbines would make a really nice rifle to pack around. If I was going to travel somewhere where a semi-auto would be impractical, or where I could piggy-back some other adventure with medium or lagrer game hunting, I would probably bring my original Jungle Carbine with me- I paid $225 for that after I took advantage of a Promo courtesy of Chase credit cards.

For those not inclined to take a real jungle carbine afield, there are plenty of Gibbs, Navy Arms, and Golden State clones and pseudo clones out there. SOmetimes you can also find Bubba sporters for $150 and less still.
Link Posted: 9/2/2010 10:37:57 PM EDT
Last smelly I bought was a carbine, and cost me $30. Used to call it my canyon gun, 'cause I could loan it out and if the idiot dropped it into a canyon I wouldn't feel obligated to push him in after it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 10:44:06 PM EDT
I get the impression that most shooters that are not regular hunters do not realize how quick a good bolt action is compared to a lever gun. Of course a well practiiced rifleman with a lever gun is fun to watch! I spend a significant time afield after the big game season with a Marlin Mountie lever action .22, hunting jackrabbits and can attest to how quick a person can get.

Still I think the pumps are seriously overlooked.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 4:05:14 AM EDT
I like lever rifles for all around use :D
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 1:52:32 PM EDT
That is a very fine accumulation!

Do you prefer the straight stock over pistol grip, or vice versa?

If you were to pick one lever gun as an "all around" what would it be?
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 2:41:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 2:41:44 PM EDT by Scout198575]

Originally Posted By Lost_River:
That is a very fine accumulation!

Do you prefer the straight stock over pistol grip, or vice versa?

If you were to pick one lever gun as an "all around" what would it be?


Personally, I like the straight stock. But that is just me.

For an all around lever gun, I would go with .30-30. Will take down most 4 legged critters in the US as well as 2 legged critters. Plus, there is certainly a lot of ammo around for it.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 3:29:54 PM EDT
I would go with my Marlin 336 in 30-30. I put a 3x9 scope on it and it's more than accurate for any mid sized game animal out to 100 yards. 30-30 ammo is decently priced and easy to find too.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:01:24 PM EDT
I keep a Marlin 336 in 30-30, win 94E in 44 mag, Marlin 1895G in 45/70 and some ammo for each. They are not the primary shtf weapons. But they will do a good job if needed. Use them for hunting if needed. and use the SHTF weapons for SHTF.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 6:13:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


I've been thinking about that myself. It may be the perfect survival gun paired with a .38/.357 revolver. .38 brass can be loaded almost indefinitely using even the most primitive methods and supplies.


How about the 45 colt? More bang for your buck been around longer and people have been casting and reloading it for over 100 years.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:14:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


I've been thinking about that myself. It may be the perfect survival gun paired with a .38/.357 revolver. .38 brass can be loaded almost indefinitely using even the most primitive methods and supplies.


How about the 45 colt? More bang for your buck been around longer and people have been casting and reloading it for over 100 years.


For all round survival, it wouldn't be bad. If you only had access to a single caliber. We were discussing this over in the survival wheelgun thread. Personally, I have brass, bullet molds, dies, and powder for reloading .45lc, and a .45 lever gun is on my "to get" list, but not so much for SHTF use. Too many other calibers that do the same thing better in a long gun.

I'm with the others who think that, if you scrub autos from the list, a lever action .30-30 carbine is hard to beat for speed, weight, handiness, and reasonable punch. I prefer the pistol grips myself, my wrist doesn't like the straight stocks much.
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 7:32:47 PM EDT
I've been thinking/ wanting to get a lever 30/30. You could cast lead bullets for cheap shooting/ practice. With an eotec or other red dot sight it would be a nice short to medium range rifle.

Remington used to load their "Accelerator" ammo in 30/30. You can buy the plastic sabots for reloading and make your own. To add to versatility.

I really want one now
Link Posted: 9/4/2010 8:30:21 PM EDT
Hard to argue with any quality bolt action rifle in .308 or 30-06 esp if you have an autoloader in the same caliber.

Link Posted: 9/4/2010 8:50:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2010 8:52:01 PM EDT by 85blazer]
Originally Posted By CATFISH25:
check out the spanish FR-8 in .308 highly overlooked, mauser-type action , great sights , & cheap


I picked this one up for the collection but it is very handy

ETA I am saving for a stainless 336
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:00:58 PM EDT
I recently purchased a Rem 700 youth, in 243 that is equipped with iron sights, and wanted to a build a 'general purpose/hunting/scout/etc..." type rifle, so I added a BDL front sight hood, and equipped the rifle with a Leupy 1.5-5x VX3 in QD Warne rings. It is a very light weight, handy rifle that can be shot accurately both scoped and with iron sights.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:11:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 12:12:27 PM EDT by Mannlicher]
Originally Posted By Lost_River:
That is a very fine accumulation!

Do you prefer the straight stock over pistol grip, or vice versa.

If you were to pick one lever gun as an "all around" what would it be?


I like a straight stock, hands down. Sadly, my favorite lever gun is the 336Y one on the right, with the pistol grip stock. Some find day, I'll send it off to Regan Nonneman, and have that fixed.

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 12:43:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 6:45:47 PM EDT by iNuhBaDNayburhood]
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 2:50:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


I've been thinking about that myself. It may be the perfect survival gun paired with a .38/.357 revolver. .38 brass can be loaded almost indefinitely using even the most primitive methods and supplies.


How about the 45 colt? More bang for your buck been around longer and people have been casting and reloading it for over 100 years.


For all round survival, it wouldn't be bad. If you only had access to a single caliber. We were discussing this over in the survival wheelgun thread. Personally, I have brass, bullet molds, dies, and powder for reloading .45lc, and a .45 lever gun is on my "to get" list, but not so much for SHTF use. Too many other calibers that do the same thing better in a long gun.

I'm with the others who think that, if you scrub autos from the list, a lever action .30-30 carbine is hard to beat for speed, weight, handiness, and reasonable punch. I prefer the pistol grips myself, my wrist doesn't like the straight stocks much.


Agree there are a lot better rifle rounds out there but if you want something that you can use in your rifle and pistol really not to much out there can beat it. If I did non auto I would have to stick with a bolt gun.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:35:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By TheOTHERmaninblack:
Originally Posted By tayous1:
Originally Posted By KJB:
Originally Posted By 505stevec:
a good all around "Non Auto" rifle would be a Lever gun in .357 mag. shoots 38s and brings deer down out to 150 yds no prob. as a man stopper within that range would be good to go. (The .357 mag 124 gr Semi Jacketed Hollowpoint) has the best "one shot stop" record on people of all handgun ammo.


I've been thinking about that myself. It may be the perfect survival gun paired with a .38/.357 revolver. .38 brass can be loaded almost indefinitely using even the most primitive methods and supplies.


How about the 45 colt? More bang for your buck been around longer and people have been casting and reloading it for over 100 years.


For all round survival, it wouldn't be bad. If you only had access to a single caliber. We were discussing this over in the survival wheelgun thread. Personally, I have brass, bullet molds, dies, and powder for reloading .45lc, and a .45 lever gun is on my "to get" list, but not so much for SHTF use. Too many other calibers that do the same thing better in a long gun.

I'm with the others who think that, if you scrub autos from the list, a lever action .30-30 carbine is hard to beat for speed, weight, handiness, and reasonable punch. I prefer the pistol grips myself, my wrist doesn't like the straight stocks much.


Agree there are a lot better rifle rounds out there but if you want something that you can use in your rifle and pistol really not to much out there can beat it. If I did non auto I would have to stick with a bolt gun.


The trouble is that you'd have to run compromise loads in both or you'd end up with a fireball spitting revolver that doesn't perform to its best standard or a underpowered rifle that doesn't perform to its best standard. Instead of having a rifle and pistol that each eats the most powerful, most accurate load you can feed it, you'll have two arms that get by with lesser fodder.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:35:28 PM EDT
Lost River,
If I was choosing just one of MY leverguns, it would probably be my Marlin in .38-55 as it is scary accurate out a few hundred yards with cast boolits.. Although more complicated, my Savage 99f in .308 certainly has enough punch, accuracy & range for most things and carries & balances nicely too.
If things had really gone to hell & I was down to BP & cast bullets, I have an orginal Sharps rifle in .45-90 that I would be confident in hitting a man sized target at 1000 yds. with it's Soule sights. & a 560 gr. bullet.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:22:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
I recently purchased a Rem 700 youth, in 243 that is equipped with iron sights, and wanted to a build a 'general purpose/hunting/scout/etc..." type rifle, so I added a BDL front sight hood, and equipped the rifle with a Leupy 1.5-5x VX3 in QD Warne rings. It is a very light weight, handy rifle that can be shot accurately both scoped and with iron sights.


That sounds pretty practical to me.
Got any pics?
Why .243?

BTW, I have a VX3 1.5x5 Leupold on a Colt AR15A3 and it is an excellent scope.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:28:30 PM EDT
The country I roam is very open, hence why I went with a bolt gun with pre loaded detachable mags versus a lever gun.





We have deep pockets of timber, but most often game is spotted out in the open.
Long shots are the norm.



Dangling my feet off the cliff shown above. :)

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:31:05 PM EDT
I have no shortage of high desert around too.
Not the greatest for a lever gun. It could be done in a pinch, but would be at a definate disadvantage.



Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:33:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 8:36:01 PM EDT by Lost_River]
Here is another pic of my .308 getting it done on Jacks in late December @ about 15 degrees below zero.





Lever guns will hold there own with the typical fast paced Jack shooting. it is normally a closer range sport.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:38:02 PM EDT
My straight stocked Marlin centerfires. Both 16". 336 in 30-30 and 1894 in 44 Mag.

Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:49:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lost_River:
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
I recently purchased a Rem 700 youth, in 243 that is equipped with iron sights, and wanted to a build a 'general purpose/hunting/scout/etc..." type rifle, so I added a BDL front sight hood, and equipped the rifle with a Leupy 1.5-5x VX3 in QD Warne rings. It is a very light weight, handy rifle that can be shot accurately both scoped and with iron sights.


That sounds pretty practical to me.
Got any pics?
Why .243?

BTW, I have a VX3 1.5x5 Leupold on a Colt AR15A3 and it is an excellent scope.








I have always liked the 243 for its light recoil, flat trajectory, and relative power. This is also my wife's deer rig, so the caliber choice applies there too. I don't have any pics, but will try to remember to get some. The gun is not done in my mind, as I would like to NP3 the internals, get a different stock, an Roguard the externals. I need to develop some handloads for it.
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