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Posted: 8/27/2010 4:38:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 4:44:31 PM EDT
I'm going with 230 grain FMJs for my .45
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 4:47:39 PM EDT
9mm thru a 19 or 17 is what I would bet on
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 4:55:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coctailer:
You lost everything, but you have a pistol buried next to the foundation of your (burned down) house.

What ammo is buried with it?

I'm asking because there could be a possibility of stubbing with hollow points. (Hydra-Shocks, Gold Dot, HST, etc)

The military uses ball ammo in combat. Reliability? Cheapskates?

What would you stake your life on if you dug up your gun, slapped in a mag, racked the slide, and had to turn and fire immediately?

I have tons of the tacticool ammo that looks good in pictures, but I am wondering if FMJ is what will save me.


the .mil uses ball because of the Hague convention
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 4:56:22 PM EDT
180 gr GDHP's for my .40. .mil uses "ball ammo" because of fuckin treaties and NATO requirements.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:11:40 PM EDT
trust me if the military had thier druthers they would be useing .45 JHP.........9mm FMJ is because of nato and treaties
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:26:00 PM EDT
Steps to follow for shtf ammo.

1 Fire enough carry ammo your confident in it.
2 Stock enough carry ammo to make you confident that by the time you run out of said ammo it really won't matter what kind of ammo you use you'll be such a bad ass.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:27:02 PM EDT
Second the Gold Dots. Seem to be the most reliable expanders.

FMJ is for target practice and competition only, IMO.

As others have said, FMJs are a function of the Convention that nobody wants to buck for some reason.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:29:24 PM EDT
FMJ head shots are not a problem

Any nay sayers?

Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:34:04 PM EDT
Going to go with the whole flagpole thing?
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:34:53 PM EDT
in my 1911 i use .230gr Winchester Ranger T's.
the nose profile is so close to ball ammo, your gun wont know the diff. plus, its a VERY effective round.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:40:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2010 5:41:31 PM EDT by Tipsovr]

Originally Posted By quijanos:
FMJ head shots are not a problem

Any nay sayers?


No disagreement there. However, making those head shots when the other head is shooting back isn't always as easy as you think. Stick with open tips and you will have a lot more success in convincing your target to quit shooting at you when you hit them.

In my 9mm weapons I use 147 gr Gold Dots. In my .45acp weapons it is 230gr Federal Hydroshocks.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:41:36 PM EDT
My S&W eats anything I feed it. But my carry ammo is 180gr Magtec hollow points. I wouldnt feel undergunned if I had a couple mags of fmj's though.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 5:44:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By coctailer:
You lost everything, but you have a pistol buried next to the foundation of your (burned down) house.

What ammo is buried with it?

I would say what ever works the best in the weapon you buried. With at lest three reloads, and an extra box of fifty.

Link Posted: 8/27/2010 6:00:16 PM EDT
An emergency situation is not the time to figure out what types of ammo work reliably in your weapons. Obviously, any gunowner should have figured that out long before he or she ever needs to use their firearm in a defensive situation

My defensive pistols are loaded with Gold Dots and Rangers depending on the caliber, and plenty of FMJ for practice and training. I'm in Florida at the moment for work, and my CCW G26 is loaded with Gold Dots. If I had brought my USP45 instead it would have been loaded with 230gr Rangers.

I keep a lot of "oddball" ammo on-hand that is outside my normal choices for training and defensive use. I do this to evaluate function and reliability whenever a gun is added to my collection. While I may use TAP or M193 in an AR I also want to make sure it functions properly with Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, Fiocchi etc. Any weapon that is picky about ammo has no business in your defensive "battery". It either needs to be fixed, sold, or relegated to range toy. Sure, I might own a bazillion rounds of my preferred defensive ammo, but if my house and BOL burn down you never know what kind of ammo you might get from your neighbor. If my neighbor hands me a box of Wolf I want to already know that it works.
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 6:03:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
Steps to follow for shtf ammo.

1 Fire enough carry ammo your confident in it.
2 Stock enough carry ammo to make you confident that by the time you run out of said ammo it really won't matter what kind of ammo you use you'll be such a bad ass.

3 bury gun and ammo

Link Posted: 8/27/2010 7:21:27 PM EDT
Glock 17- I like to go with the first round being a 124 gr. FMJ and the next is a Hirtenburg 100gr. FSP (Flat Soft Point). I then stagger the rounds. FMJ then FSP. I also have a bunch of GDHP that I would use in a heartbeat........

Glock 31- I love the 125gr GDHP. I would have 4 mags 15 rds and an extra box of 50...


My .02...


Matthew
Link Posted: 8/27/2010 7:57:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/27/2010 7:59:44 PM EDT by WalleyeSlayer]
#1 Remove Gun from holster on my waist and fire. ( YES I ALWAYS CARRY, ALWAYS! )
#2 Now you dig the hole to keep your yard clean. (not the other way around)
#3 Fill in hole.
As to your Question any self defense round will do, I keep mine fresh, dry, and clean along with my gun.
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 3:26:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
An emergency situation is not the time to figure out what types of ammo work reliably in your weapons. Obviously, any gunowner should have figured that out long before he or she ever needs to use their firearm in a defensive situation

My defensive pistols are loaded with Gold Dots and Rangers depending on the caliber, and plenty of FMJ for practice and training. I'm in Florida at the moment for work, and my CCW G26 is loaded with Gold Dots. If I had brought my USP45 instead it would have been loaded with 230gr Rangers.

I keep a lot of "oddball" ammo on-hand that is outside my normal choices for training and defensive use. I do this to evaluate function and reliability whenever a gun is added to my collection. While I may use TAP or M193 in an AR I also want to make sure it functions properly with Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, Fiocchi etc. Any weapon that is picky about ammo has no business in your defensive "battery". It either needs to be fixed, sold, or relegated to range toy. Sure, I might own a bazillion rounds of my preferred defensive ammo, but if my house and BOL burn down you never know what kind of ammo you might get from your neighbor. If my neighbor hands me a box of Wolf I want to already know that it works.


Now that is a lesson many on this site just dont understand. Very well thought out reply
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 4:32:29 AM EDT
I keep a lot of "oddball" ammo on-hand that is outside my normal choices for training and defensive use. I do this to evaluate function and reliability whenever a gun is added to my collection. While I may use TAP or M193 in an AR I also want to make sure it functions properly with Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, Fiocchi etc. Any weapon that is picky about ammo has no business in your defensive "battery". It either needs to be fixed, sold, or relegated to range toy. Sure, I might own a bazillion rounds of my preferred defensive ammo, but if my house and BOL burn down you never know what kind of ammo you might get from your neighbor. If my neighbor hands me a box of Wolf I want to already know that it works.





Brother, where have you been? I have said this on this site for YEARS. I train with alot of guys that train military and civilians in places like South Africa, the Phillipines, Guatemala.....Ammo of ANY kind is a LUXURY. You should hear the stories of what they have to work with. If they are lucky they can get some Chinese or Russian military surplus that's only 30 years old! Alot of time it is locally remanufactured ammo of dubious quality. Understand that at least for the civilians they are training these people are the elite of that society–– or they wouldn't have guns....and the BEST they can get would be passed by by most American gun owners who insist on shooting firearms that can only be described as toys and not WEAPONS. That day is coming here too. You can scoff all you want but about a year and a half ago there were a hell of alot of people who owned .380's that would have been glad to find ANY ammo whatsoever. Due to legislation etc.....that day will come again and not just for the "mouse gun" owners. Stack it deep now but understand that forever is a long damn time.......and guns tend to outlast ammo.
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 5:39:17 AM EDT
Originally Posted By acman145acp:
Steps to follow for shtf ammo.

1 Fire enough carry ammo your confident in it.
2 Stock enough carry ammo to make you confident that by the time you run out of said ammo it really won't matter what kind of ammo you use you'll be such a bad ass.


And you say you're not a writer.
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 6:44:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2010 7:07:51 AM EDT by Rudison]
I'm going with my S&W 66 3" and the Fed. 125 JHP load.
I have a box of ammo and 4 full speed-loaders in a vacuum sealed bag.
The Smith will also allow me to fire a wide range of scrounged ammo.

After years of being an 870 guy, I'm going to invest a lot of time and money in proficiency with a Marlin 44mag carbine, then the bug out hand gun will be in 44 as well. Probably a 5 shot 44 special.
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 7:03:58 AM EDT
At that point, who give a shit about the details, as long as it's something better than a baseball bat..
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 7:29:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CoyoteGray:
At that point, who give a shit about the details, as long as it's something better than a baseball bat..


This is the Internet.

As to baseball bats, our Little League got rid of all their old aluminum Tee-Ball bats.
Just the right size for Zombie suppression.
Link Posted: 8/28/2010 8:37:23 PM EDT
if SHTF and im in need of ammo, i would not care as long as it goes bang. now what i stock is x00 rds good GDHP for handguns and x000 tap rds for rifle and then stack it high with FMJ for safe keeping/range/training/comp.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 5:40:52 AM EDT
If things are so bad that I'm digging up a gun, I would prefer that it be a rifle.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 5:59:43 AM EDT
If the pistol is a:

9mm 127gr SXT +P+(non suppressed)
9mm 147gr OSM(suppressed)
.40 165gr SXT
.45 ACP 230grSXT+P
.38spl 158gr LSWCHP+P
.357 Mag 140gr STHP.
.22LR CCI Mini Mag 40gr RN

These are the rounds I tested,settled on and stock for all my SD pistols. There may be better rounds,newer rounds,or differences of opinion on my choices but when I started stockpiling this is what I bought. I have a metric shitton of each. I would feel quite well served if forced to use any of these.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 6:10:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2010 6:21:24 AM EDT by vintovka]
Originally Posted By coctailer:
You lost everything, but you have a pistol buried next to the foundation of your (burned down) house.

––––––––Extra weapons on my person and/or built into my vehicle...

What ammo is buried with it?

––––-The best ammo available...

I'm asking because there could be a possibility of stubbing with hollow points. (Hydra-Shocks, Gold Dot, HST, etc)

The military uses ball ammo in combat. Reliability? Cheapskates?

––––Most military units are required to use ball ammo (or other non expanding ammo) because of the Hague treaty, Geneva convention military protocol....

What would you stake your life on if you dug up your gun, slapped in a mag, racked the slide, and had to turn and fire immediately?

––––AK 5.56 and or ruger .357 revolver.

I have tons of the tacticool ammo that looks good in pictures, but I am wondering if FMJ is what will save me.


––––Pick a good defensive load for combat (Buffalo bore, Gold Dot they are all about the same) and then pick a FMJ cartridge that is about the same weight/velocity train with the FMJ, cache the good stuff. Disperse extra weapons with family/friends in the area. If legal keep a weapon or two in your vehicle. Disperse disperse disperse. Read up on which defensive load is the most accurate for your weapon since most holo point rounds do the same amount of damage based on velocity and weight.

If you have a few extra dollars and you keep your eyes open there will be opportunities to buy good second teir weapons (revolvers, Berratta 9mm etc) and cache them for the unexpected. Stay realistic you will need a concealable weapon, and it is preferable to have a long gun. A used folding stock 12Ga pump can be had for $200. Break it down, add desiccant and put it in a lockable tool box. lock it if local laws apply seal it with RTV and bury it on your own property.

Link Posted: 8/29/2010 6:13:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Halffast:
If things are so bad that I'm digging up a gun, I would prefer that it be a rifle.


That's where I'm headed with the short Marlin in 44mag.

IF I like it as much as I hope, I'll be shortening it's little 357 brother as well.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 6:50:34 AM EDT
Only time Im unarmed is when I am inside a government building,,,suffice it to say it is rarely. Other than that I have a Glock 27 with Golden Sabers
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 9:51:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2010 10:06:20 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Thank you Cougar and Will

What some people don't consider is that emergencies and disasters rarely present themselves with the ideal situations and circumstances of our choosing. In order to survive (and thrive) in a given situation we have to have options and be flexible.

The same axiom is true for defensive weapons and ammo, shelter, water purification, backup heat, power...you name it. If you box yourself into a corner with a single solution you're going to be in pretty deep trouble when Murphy takes that option away from you. The recent 380 shortage was a pretty good lesson. What if your home was wiped out by a tornado, and the only weapon you had to defend what was left happened to be a 380?

History can be a great teacher for those of us who are willing to be taught. That's one of my basic tenets if faith, and one of the reasons I enjoy the SF as much as I do. Here we have the benefit of real world shared experience in disaster prep, and that knowledge pool is priceless.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 10:28:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2010 10:31:14 AM EDT by Ridgerunner9876]

Originally Posted By quijanos:
FMJ head shots are not a problem

Any nay sayers?


Yes, I'll say nay. Anybody who thinks they're gonna get headshots is delusional.

Take a helium filled balloon the size of your head. Tie it to a 6' string from the ground, in the wind. Now stand off 7 yards and see how long it takes you to break a randomly moving, head sized object that still can't move as fast as a human.

#2 If you buried your pistol in the ground with no protection, you've already failed. How much is a can of LPS and a length of PVC?

As far as ammo, I like Gold dots or Golden saber. They are generally cheap enough to run a decent amount through the guns and good enough to get the job done.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 11:02:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By coctailer:
You lost everything, but you have a pistol buried next to the foundation of your (burned down) house.

What ammo is buried with it?

I'm asking because there could be a possibility of stubbing with hollow points. (Hydra-Shocks, Gold Dot, HST, etc)

The military uses ball ammo in combat. Reliability? Cheapskates?

What would you stake your life on if you dug up your gun, slapped in a mag, racked the slide, and had to turn and fire immediately?

I have tons of the tacticool ammo that looks good in pictures, but I am wondering if FMJ is what will save me.


The military uses ball only because ( outside of sniper guns ) its forbidden by the geneva conv.
Link Posted: 8/29/2010 11:19:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bigler:
I'm going with 230 grain FMJs for my .45


Link Posted: 8/29/2010 3:59:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 1:08:11 PM EDT
I've got guns securely stored at 5 seperate locations. losing them all is not going to happen.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 2:29:13 PM EDT
Ball ammo is by design the most reliable. I cached three 1911s, with FMJ ammo that I've cast from wheelweights and reloaded myself. I'm a believer in the .45 ACP as having no need for anything other than FMJ or round-nose lead to be effective manstopper. Theoretically, regardless of caliber, if I were in need of recovering a stashed gun, I would not care what type of round I had, only that I had some ammo available to recover anyway.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 3:43:46 PM EDT
If I were to cache ammo it would be ball or LRN in various common calibers.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 4:21:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By J75player:
in my 1911 i use .230gr Winchester Ranger T's.
the nose profile is so close to ball ammo, your gun wont know the diff. plus, its a VERY effective round.


SXTs?
Thanks
M
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 5:32:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2010 5:35:47 PM EDT by mongo001]
My pistol isn't buried by my house foundation, it's buried by my.................................................oops, neeeeeeeeeeeeeeevermind.

+1 with rather having a rifle. Almost positive it wouldn't be buried near my house. I could think of a thousand places I could bury it that I could get to that wouldn't require going near any house.

50/50 mix of ball and defensive hollow points.
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 5:38:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By quijanos:
9mm thru a 19 or 17 is what I would bet on


Link Posted: 9/3/2010 6:13:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By amos1909:
Glock 17- I like to go with the first round being a 124 gr. FMJ and the next is a Hirtenburg 100gr. FSP (Flat Soft Point). I then stagger the rounds. FMJ then FSP.


If that is your thing... And you feel comfortable doing it... Then that is your thing...

Personally, I wouldn't recommend "staggering" rounds, and I definitely would not recommend having different grain bullets in the stagger...

What I would recommend, is finding the bullet that you like best, and your gun hums with, and use that... But staggering rounds... I am not so sure about...
Link Posted: 9/3/2010 6:52:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridgerunner9876:

Originally Posted By quijanos:
FMJ head shots are not a problem

Any nay sayers?


Yes, I'll say nay. Anybody who thinks they're gonna get headshots is delusional.



I appreciate your insight and clear clarification.

Yeah, of course a headshot will kill someone. A headshot with a.22 will kill someone... So why even get a "bigger" gun. Why don't we all get .22's and practice head shots all day long...

A headshot? Nope. It ain't happening, bro. Not with an aggressively moving target outside immediate range. It ain't happening. Shoot a small moving target, or shoot a big moving target... Which one is going to get hit...

I practice headshots. Two to the chest, two to the head and such drills. But two or three seconds in a drill to get my gun out of my holster, and get a couple shots off feels like I have a million years compared to real-life.

Practice shooting at small targets... "Aim small, shoot small..." And if an aggressor presents itself and all you have is a small target, or a head, take it. But more than likely, you will be aiming and shooting center-mass.. And more than likely, that is all you are going to get to shoot at.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:00:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 7:01:06 PM EDT by J75player]
Originally Posted By MDS:
Originally Posted By J75player:
in my 1911 I use .230gr Winchester Ranger T's.
the nose profile is so close to ball ammo, your gun wont know the diff. plus, its a VERY effective round.


SXTs?
Thanks
M


the Winchester supreme SXT's and Ranger T's are diff rounds. the Ranger T's are the new version of the old black talons and are marketed LE only (altho you can prolly get it if you try)
the SXT's lack the sharp "talons" after expanding, but is still a great round and feeds in a 1911 like ball ammo.
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