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Posted: 3/30/2015 11:34:37 PM EDT
So Im looking at getting an English Springer Spaniel. Im just getting out of college so Im looking to spend under $1000. Im trying to decide if I want to train the dog myself or get one that is started. I don't graduate until May and will not be purchasing a dog for another 6-7 months. During this time I am thinking I would like to research training the dog myself. We used to have a cocker and brittany pair that my dad trained with us. Just basic retrieving and the dogs naturally pointed. Im looking to train in pointing, retrieving, and flushing. I don't have loads of money to spend on someone, and would like to spend the time with my dog myself.

Im looking to make the dog workable and comfortable to me, so any recommendations on training and gear would be great. Also, anyone know reputable breeders? I know there are Show lines and Working/Field/Gun dog lines. Im looking for field/gun/working. Any recommendations, especially in Texas, would be great. Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/1/2015 10:19:58 PM EDT
[#1]
No one...?
Link Posted: 4/2/2015 10:11:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 41magsnub] [#2]
A springer is a flusher, not a pointer.  Sounds like you may really want a Brit :)

Anecdotally, springers are kinda dumb.  Brits are smarter.

A started dog will be more than $1000.

Look up various books and trainings based on the Delmar Smith methods.

Look up your local NAVHDA chapter, they will be a lot of help in training.  It is not all about the testing with those guys anymore.

Were it me, I'd get a pup and train myself.  Wait, that was me..  3 year old German Wirehair now :)
Link Posted: 4/2/2015 12:56:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 41magsnub:
A springer is a flusher, not a pointer.  Sounds like you may really want a Brit :)

Anecdotally, springers are kinda dumb.  Brits are smarter.

A started dog will be more than $1000.

Look up various books and trainings based on the Delmar Smith methods.

Look up your local NAVHDA chapter, they will be a lot of help in training.  It is not all about the testing with those guys anymore.

Were it me, I'd get a pup and train myself.  Wait, that was me..  3 year old German Wirehair now :)
View Quote


Well as I said, Im looking at all three (point, retrieve, flushing) so I may get another Brit later on, but for now Im looking at getting an ESS.
Link Posted: 6/20/2015 9:10:10 PM EDT
[#4]
" />

He was not "dumb" ... a bit goofy maybe, but definitely not dumb.  RIP Lancelot

Stay safe
Link Posted: 6/20/2015 9:34:21 PM EDT
[#5]
I used Springers to flush rabbits for my hawks .
They work close and are easily trained . Since you have experience with dogs it should be no big deal to train one
Bigger than a Brittany , the springer can crash cover well and like the water flushing ducks .
Ah the memories
Link Posted: 6/24/2015 9:08:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: beardog30] [#6]
You either get a pointer or a flushing dog...you don't get both (*** well kind of, but more on that latter, but that statement holds true for birds***).  The 1k mark will set you up with a nice puppy from moderate to good hunting lines.  You won't touch a good started dog for 1k from any reputable breeder.  

You don't train a dog to hunt.  They are either born with or without that ability, you take that risk with any puppy you buy, although good breeding generally helps alleviate any concerns about a dog that won't hunt.  That being said you run the risk of a puppy not having any hunting drive, it happens even from the best breeding lines. Training simply harnesses a dogs ability to hunt for you and not for itself.

Ask yourself what you will be hunting, where you will be hunting, how you like to hunt, and what kind of temperament you have and want the dog to have.  Do that before thinking about what breed you want.

I would try and find a trainer that will let you do weekly sessions with your puppy and tag along during the training.  You can learn training methods from someone that knows what they are doing and train your pup between sessions yourself.

Gear;  50 ft check rope, 100 ft check rope, whoa boards, garden posts for check rope whoa training, bumper, training blanks or starter pistol *****E-collar ****don't do anything with an E-collar until an actual trainer shows you how to use it, nothing ruins a dog quicker than and idiot with an E-collar.

My personal experience is on the pointing dog side of things.  So i'll tell what I know from training/hunting my dogs and hunting with other peoples dogs.  I mostly hunt grouse and woodcock, but usually make a couple trips to the MW for pheasant and quail.   I'm a GSP owner who wishes he had gone with Brittanies, Llewellyn pointer/English Setters, or Brittanies.  GSP's are fantastic dogs, but like all German bred versatile hunting dogs GSP's were bred for hunting multiple animals.  That means in addition to fowl they have a high prey drive for rabbits, boar, deer, badger, etc... This is the exception I was talking about.  GSP's were bred to point birds but actively run fur game, much like a hound would.   This gets really annoying, especially hunting areas with few birds.  They get bored easy and start hunting any fur they can get their nose on.  This is something that will go away overtime but for the first 2-3 seasons they will have a ton of fur drive.

Training has it's place, but there is no better trainer than hunting seasons and bird contacts.  If you have a dog that isn't understanding whoa...let that dog bust a couple points out hunting.  They will figure it out pretty quick that their role is to find the birds and your role is to knock them out of the sky.  I didn't believe it at first, but at the end of her first actual hunting season my problem dog transformed into a bird pointing machine.

Dogs I have hunted over and my observations in general;
GSP's, GWP, Drahthaar Pros; very smart, willing to pleases dogs, good noses, very athletic, they cover lots of ground, pretty good natural retrievers, love the water, very strong swimmers, and very adaptable to different birds.  They can hunt pheasant one day and hunt grouse the next without skipping a beat.  Pretty forgiving from a training perspective.  You can hunt them in hotter temps than longer haired dogs.  Some dogs can be sensitive and shut down if they feel you are getting frustrated, others take correction in stride as long as you don't go off the handles.

Cons; The first 15 minutes they are useless.  They get so hyped up they spend the first 15 minutes running around like crazy, shitting and pissing all over the place because they are so keyed up.  No matter how disciplined I've been with exercising them, they always have that pent up energy for the first 15 minutes.  Once that's out of their system they are good.  They get cold, really easy, anything under freezing the vests come out.  They tend to not be cover busters and check hunt.  What I mean by check hunt is they will smell key parts of cover and if they don't smell anything interesting they move on to the next bunch of cover.  Very efficient for covering lots of ground, but they will miss birds if the scent is not fresh or scent conditions are sub par.  This happens a lot with pheasant.  you will get a runner that heard the truck door close and the dogs will get birdy where he was laid up, but he's ran so far away that the scent trail is next to nothing and the dogs won't cover bust unless they have a strong scent.  Like I mentioned earlier GSP's have a ton of fur drive.  My girls have killed coyotes, badgers, and damn near took down a deer, all before I had the chance to get the whistle out of my pocket.

Brittanies.
Pros; Love hunting behind a good Brittany.  They hunt a little slower than GSP's (which I like YMMV), excellent noses, I've never hunted behind a Brittany that was known for missing birds.  They are cover busters, no thicket is too thick for them.  Very thorough hunting dogs.  Good natural retrieve.  They can hunt down to around 10 degrees without issues.  I love the disposition of Britt's.  Good natured dogs, willing to please, if you get a little frustrated they shake it off, great dogs.  They don't have as much fur drive as GSP's, occasionally they chase after a bunny, deer, or point a mouse, but that is about as far as their fur drive goes.
Cons; Their coat needs maintenance.  Every thorn, sticker, etc... gets attached.  They get hot pretty quick, even when shaved.  Not the strongest swimmers.  take a little transition time between different birds.  Dogs that are use to grouse take a few trips to figure out they need to block or pen a pheasant so they won't run.  Lastly they don't have the endurance of a GSP.


Llewellyn pointer/English Setters;
Pros;  They hunt somewhere between a Brittany and a GSP speed wise.  Same thing with cover, not check hunters, but not big cover busters either.  Good noses, maybe slightly better than your average Brittany.  Good swimmers, good endurance.  They tend to be strict bird hunters, not tons of fur drive.  
Cons;  Their coat needs maintenance.  Same issues with heat as with a Brittany.  My only major complaint and why I will steer you away is; they are very moody and sensitive dogs.  They take a very calm, experienced trainer.  They can be stubborn and if you get frustrated and let it show they will shut down.  If I ever was to get an Llewellyn or ES I won't use an E-collar on one, they need a very soft hand and even tempered person.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 8:12:04 AM EDT
[#7]
The field line English Springer is almost a totally different breed than the show or bench bred line.

There are physical confirmation differences, I will post pictures later. The field dogs tend to be smaller; my female is in the low 30 lbs range and is often mistaken for an English Cocker Spaniel. On the other hand, the bench bred males sometimes get into the 50 lbs range I believe  

My dog and those from similar litters has an incredible retrieving drive naturally. Flushing dogs are easier to train than pointers, and you can get in the field and start making bird contacts after only learning a few basic dog handling commands. Getting the dogs steady to wing and shot takes more time.
Link Posted: 7/29/2015 8:30:45 AM EDT
[#8]
I've raised/owned Springer Spaniels for over 30 years. They are tremendous upland game hunters. They have a great nose and work tight cover very well. They flush their game so you need a well-trained dog that will work within shotgun range, stay on the scent, and not get sidetracked with other smells (rabbits, field mice, etc). Loyal, trusting, good friends/companions, and friendly to everyone they meet. As pups they have a high motor and can be a handful but as they mature, like all animals, they settle down. I've never hunted in Texas so have no idea about your geography but in SD its weed patches, corn/soybean fields, shelter belts, and pasture land. For those areas the Springer does very well. I've hunted in groups that had German Wirehairs, Vizsla, Chocolate/Golden labs, and the like but I've never observed any dog among those that I would pick over the Springer. Plus, when they go bounding through the grass, jumping like a dolphin cresting the waves, its a sight that sticks with you forever. Good luck on your pup. You're on the way to many, many years of fun with a 4-legged furry ball of fun!
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