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Posted: 10/23/2015 10:14:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/23/2015 11:28:18 AM EST by jeremyt]
A little back story.....I'm definitely no stranger to shooting sports. Grew up at BP matches moved on to USPSA then 3gun and hunted all my life.


I've shot .223 out to 600yd at various 3G mathes but recently I've been wanting to get my feet wet in the "long range" game. There will soon be a 1200 yard range not far from me. My current hunting set up is a Rem 700 7mm STW 26.5" barrel with detachable muzzle brake (seen below) topped with Leupold base & rings holding a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 BalisticPlex. I've taken deer out to 425 with Sierra 175 gr gameking handloads so I know I can make it work out to there.


My question is: What distance can I reasonably expect to make consistent hits with using this setup? 700? 800? Or is that too far to ask with the scope/mount combo & barrel profile.

Any & all input is welcome.

Thank you,
Jeremy




Link Posted: 10/23/2015 12:28:10 PM EST
A lot of it depends on the size of the target you are shooting at.

But in general, if you can hold 1 MoA: the gun will continue to shoot 1 MoA out to 800-900 yards, then rather rapidly decay to about 2 MoA as transonic effects take hold.
Link Posted: 10/23/2015 6:45:50 PM EST
700-800 yards is getting out there.
How are your wind reading skills?

Link Posted: 10/23/2015 9:26:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ch3no2:
700-800 yards is getting out there.
How are your wind reading skills?

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I can usually tell if it's wind or I need to head to the jon.

Truthfully in the matches I've shot it's just been a guesstimate on where to hold. I'm looking forward to learning some new tricks though. If I can do 800 with what I have now I'll be one happy guy. Thanks for the input!
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 1:08:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By jeremyt:



I can usually tell if it's wind or I need to head to the jon.

Truthfully in the matches I've shot it's just been a guesstimate on where to hold. I'm looking forward to learning some new tricks though. If I can do 800 with what I have now I'll be one happy guy. Thanks for the input!
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jeremyt:
Originally Posted By ch3no2:
700-800 yards is getting out there.
How are your wind reading skills?




I can usually tell if it's wind or I need to head to the jon.

Truthfully in the matches I've shot it's just been a guesstimate on where to hold. I'm looking forward to learning some new tricks though. If I can do 800 with what I have now I'll be one happy guy. Thanks for the input!


I damn near pissed myself with that one
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 5:23:53 AM EST
What is the twist rate on the barrel? If you have a 1 in 9 twist I would load up the 180 grain berger hybrids with H1000 or Retumbo powder. That combo would most likely get you 2900+ fps. If you have a slower twist rate I would go with the 162 grain amax and H1000 powder that combo should give you 3000+ fps. Either of those will be supersonic to nearly a mile.

Link Posted: 10/24/2015 10:18:31 AM EST
Your max range depends on your ammo consistency, muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, average group size, target size and how well you can actually shoot and dope the wind. You're also going to have to adjust for spin drift at that range and possibly coriolis effect especially if you're shooting for small targets like the vitals of a critter. Your rifle will easily keep a 180 Berger Hybrid supersonic at a mile.

DISLAIMER: I heartily discourage ANY hunting for ANY animal at ranges beyond 500m. It's almost uniformly inhumane or irresponsible. If Frank from Snipers Hide wants to do it, I'll forgive him. Everyone else I'll look cross at and say mean things about. Some people have the skills. I do. I would never use them though because it's not ok to have the opportunity to torture another living thing when it'd be just as easy and fun to kill it mercifully. No field conditions are perfect. No man is perfect. No rifle is perfect.

Link Posted: 10/24/2015 12:47:20 PM EST
That setup may work at extended ranges, depending on target size, but I'm not sure how consistent you'll be. Dialing helps for getting a precise poa, and I don't know that your scope will have enough internal adjustments.

As far as Spin D, you will only be close to 4" drift at 800yds, so not too terrible. Wind will likely have a greater impact but adjusting for the drift could be beneficial with small targets.

The scope will be the limiting factor if the rifle can hold 1moa. If you really enjoy shooting longer ranges, having a scope that has adj. turrets will likely go a long ways.
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 10:57:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By lefty-weaver-g19:
What is the twist rate on the barrel? If you have a 1 in 9 twist I would load up the 180 grain berger hybrids with H1000 or Retumbo powder. That combo would most likely get you 2900+ fps. If you have a slower twist rate I would go with the 162 grain amax and H1000 powder that combo should give you 3000+ fps. Either of those will be supersonic to nearly a mile.

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It's 1 in 9 twist. I'm currently loading 175 gr SGK's with 82gr US869. I'm looking into a target load.
Link Posted: 10/24/2015 11:01:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ballisticxlr:
Your max range depends on your ammo consistency, muzzle velocity, ballistic coefficient, average group size, target size and how well you can actually shoot and dope the wind. You're also going to have to adjust for spin drift at that range and possibly coriolis effect especially if you're shooting for small targets like the vitals of a critter. Your rifle will easily keep a 180 Berger Hybrid supersonic at a mile.

DISLAIMER: I heartily discourage ANY hunting for ANY animal at ranges beyond 500m. It's almost uniformly inhumane or irresponsible. If Frank from Snipers Hide wants to do it, I'll forgive him. Everyone else I'll look cross at and say mean things about. Some people have the skills. I do. I would never use them though because it's not ok to have the opportunity to torture another living thing when it'd be just as easy and fun to kill it mercifully. No field conditions are perfect. No man is perfect. No rifle is perfect.

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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to convey the idea that I would be hunting at those ranges. Strictly looking into banging steel.


Link Posted: 10/25/2015 11:21:29 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2015 11:25:13 AM EST by ballisticxlr]
Understood. It was less directed at you than at future readers.

I take double my "average group size * (range to target in meters / 100) * 2" as my required target size. So if my gun shoots half inch 5-shot strings all day long then I need a target 1 inch across at 100m, 2 inches at 200m and so on. At a mile (1760yrds) I'd need a target about a half a meter across. That's going to get massively more difficult to hit after about 500m and you might want to increase it to 2MOA. My 1000m range has a 1 meter wide target sitting at that distance next to a normal size human torso silhouette. At closer ranges we have a large and small round targets. The large one is sized as twice the number of hundreds of meters in inches so at 500m the target is a 10" plate. The small target at 500m is a 5" plate.

I like to take my AR500 torso silhouette out to the desert and do ranging and shooting exercises in that more challenging environment. The target is 12" wide and 20" tall. At 1000m it's plenty challenging without being a waste of ammo. I would not go appreciably smaller for a 1km target. Your rifle is definitely capable of keeping bullets supersonic to a mile or a little more but that doesn't mean that such ranges are within its capability to accurately place said bullets. That's going to come from your group size, accuracy at ranging distance to target and wind reading capability. I would predict you'll be able to make 800m hits on steel all day long on 2MOA targets but after that some complicating factors like varying winds across the flight path, high angle trajectory at the long end, optics precision, muzzle velocity variation, air temperature variations along the flight path, plain ol' experience and other stuff will make things a lot more challenging.

For your target load, I'd stick with US869 and pick up the Berger 180 Hybrid slugs. I tend to run those pills pretty hot and they seem to like it. They've got .674 G1 BC and are really easy to tune, at least for me. My target loads for most things tend to run about a grain and a half under max.
Link Posted: 10/25/2015 8:49:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/25/2015 8:51:09 PM EST by jeremyt]
Thanks ballisticxlr, That is good info. I did get to stretch out to 550 yesterday. Started at 300 and rang the bell all the way out to 550 in 50 yard increments. I do believe that 700 is probably the farthest I will be able to go with my optic setup that i have now. My hold for the 550 yard plate was centering the "post" of the reticle. Anything after that would be a lot of holdover and I'm not comfortable with that yet. I was fairly proud of my first shot on the 500 yard target however.


Link Posted: 10/26/2015 8:17:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jeremyt:
Thanks ballisticxlr, That is good info. I did get to stretch out to 550 yesterday. Started at 300 and rang the bell all the way out to 550 in 50 yard increments. I do believe that 700 is probably the farthest I will be able to go with my optic setup that i have now. My hold for the 550 yard plate was centering the "post" of the reticle. Anything after that would be a lot of holdover and I'm not comfortable with that yet. I was fairly proud of my first shot on the 500 yard target however.

http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u211/starvinpilgrim/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrmxykrpr.jpeg
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So which shot was the bottom hit?
Link Posted: 10/26/2015 10:16:33 PM EST
That was already on the steel. I wish I'd taken the effort to paint before I shot. I didn't get to shoot for a group because honestly I only had about 10 rounds loaded. Now that I have access to this range though, I spent all day Sunday processing brass, ready to load 100 more


Just what I needed...........another way to spend money.

Link Posted: 10/27/2015 10:47:02 AM EST
If you're going to play at really long ranges, beyond 500m is my starting line for that, then you'll be well served by changing to a scope with externally adjustable turrets. To stretch out further you're going to have to dial some dope. Holdover just ain't going to cut it much past where you've gotten to. If you hunt with this gun then you'll want locking turrets as well if you want to keep just one scope on it. Quality of glass goes a long way and I'd encourage you to spend a couple months|years saving up (assuming this is necessary for you, it is for me) and get yourself a tier 1 scope. Something really nice with a 4 digit price. With that quality of glass you'll be able to take that rifle to a mile. The scope you have on it right now is fine for hunting but I would really recommend something higher end as you reach into long range. I like US Optics myself but they're heart-stoppingly expensive and it takes me a couple years to save up for each one.

And yeah, when you stretch the range you increase the budget.
Link Posted: 10/28/2015 7:34:42 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ballisticxlr:
If you're going to play at really long ranges, beyond 500m is my starting line for that, then you'll be well served by changing to a scope with externally adjustable turrets. To stretch out further you're going to have to dial some dope. Holdover just ain't going to cut it much past where you've gotten to. If you hunt with this gun then you'll want locking turrets as well if you want to keep just one scope on it. Quality of glass goes a long way and I'd encourage you to spend a couple months|years saving up (assuming this is necessary for you, it is for me) and get yourself a tier 1 scope. Something really nice with a 4 digit price. With that quality of glass you'll be able to take that rifle to a mile. The scope you have on it right now is fine for hunting but I would really recommend something higher end as you reach into long range. I like US Optics myself but they're heart-stoppingly expensive and it takes me a couple years to save up for each one.

And yeah, when you stretch the range you increase the budget.
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Isn't that the truth! A s with most things, "if you wanna pay, you have to pay".

I completely agree and I've been doing a little research on scopes and I think while I'm at it I'm probably going to swap out the factory stock for something a little nicer & more comfortable.


Again, Thanks for the input & advice.



Link Posted: 10/30/2015 9:35:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2015 9:51:12 AM EST by popnfresh]
What is consistent, what size target. This super duper ballistic calc says this below with those 175SGKs.

Edit: the 175SMK will raise it to 71.1%
The 180Hybrid(25fps slower) 73.5%

Or, increase your wind read ability from +/-2 to +/-1mph and increase to 95%



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/1/2015 1:18:54 PM EST
Now put that wind reading number to something approaching realistic (5mph would be closer to an average ability) and the wind velocity to 10mph. Watch that hit probability drop like a stone and the scatter prediction get huge.
Link Posted: 11/1/2015 2:25:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By ballisticxlr:
Now put that wind reading number to something approaching realistic (5mph would be closer to an average ability) and the wind velocity to 10mph. Watch that hit probability drop like a stone and the scatter prediction get huge.
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Yeah I am sure I could put all kinds of shit in there. On a 6mph wind +/-2mph is within the wheelhouse of an average shooter who has spent any time with their anemometer. +/-5mph would be novice.
Link Posted: 11/2/2015 8:36:45 PM EST
Where in the world did you find a 1200 yd range in missouri ?
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