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Posted: 2/8/2015 9:12:23 PM EDT
I am not reloading yet, but will be set up by the EOY...

I am shooting 168 FGMM in my bolt action now but would like a suggestion for other brands to try. I know the usual ammo out there but what out of the box have you had good luck with?

I printed a 13/16", out to out, 3 shot group today and followed that with a 15/16" out to out group with four rounds. This is basically a half inch and then a 5/8" inch groups.

The rifle is essentially an out of the box Remington SPS Tactical in a Manners stock with a Timney trigger. For being a stock action and barrel, I feel I am getting good groups.

My decision is to take the next step and go with a barrel upgrade. But if spending an additional $500 or more to get another .25", not sure if it is worth it. I am not competing, only with myself.

77
Link Posted: 2/8/2015 10:14:08 PM EDT
southwest ammo is probably one of the most annoying companies on the planet to deal with, but their ammo is good stuff.
black hills has a good reputation but i haven't shot their 308.
some of my friends had good luck with the prvi 308 match, but it shot like ass in my rifles.
HSM usually works pretty well. quite a few high power shooters like it

Link Posted: 2/8/2015 10:59:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2015 11:03:25 PM EDT by Quackhead69]
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
I am not reloading yet, but will be set up by the EOY...

I am shooting 168 FGMM in my bolt action now but would like a suggestion for other brands to try. I know the usual ammo out there but what out of the box have you had good luck with?

I printed a 13/16", out to out, 3 shot group today and followed that with a 15/16" out to out group with four rounds. This is basically a half inch and then a 5/8" inch groups.

The rifle is essentially an out of the box Remington SPS Tactical in a Manners stock with a Timney trigger. For being a stock action and barrel, I feel I am getting good groups.

My decision is to take the next step and go with a barrel upgrade. But if spending an additional $500 or more to get another .25", not sure if it is worth it. I am not competing, only with myself.

77
View Quote

I get decent groups with FGMM 168's, but I notice the box to box consistency sucks. I started out shooting Winchester Match 168's. My rifle likes those the best and I have bought them from different stores 500 miles apart with consistent results....but I have been paying $40/bx..I bought 10 boxes of the cheaper FGMM 168's awhile back for $25/bx. Last week I got my reloading kit and over the weekend, I have found a lower node that shoots 5 shot groups in the .3's and .4's consistently at 100 meters using fire formed FGMM brass and SMK 168's.

I would suggest at least tailoring some ammo to the rifle before making irrational decisions on the barrel without any more judgement than what it does with factory ammo. Each barrel is different and requires work to find what i needs to perform it's best...and that might not be anything offered in the stores.

one more thing, I only spent $400 on everything I needed to get started including enough bullets and powder to load 300 rds, delivered to my door.
Link Posted: 2/10/2015 7:17:56 AM EDT
Thanks for the comments...I have thought about purchasing some BHs to try, I have heard and read good things about this ammo. I do know that to get the optimum performance out of my rifle hand loading is the way to go.

My rifle is my assembly, I am happy with it.

77
Link Posted: 2/10/2015 2:21:34 PM EDT
I use Black Hills 175gr Match and it is wickedly accurate.
Link Posted: 2/10/2015 2:43:44 PM EDT
I'm not a hand-loader but I do own 2 precision rifles....if that makes any sense I've tried just about about every factory match offering out there in .308 Win and I've found the following to be 'noticeably' more accurate than the others. Some of the Hornady match has been decent but I found some inconsistency with their loads.

FGMM 168
FGMM 175
BH (red box) 168 BTHP
Copper Creek - their Lapua brass loads are about as good as it gets if you are willing to pay
*If you can find and are willing to pay, the Lapua 155 Scenar factory load is probably one of the best out there for 300 yards and in.

Just my experience. YMMV
Link Posted: 2/10/2015 11:34:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/10/2015 11:35:36 PM EDT by 77Bronc]
Alpha thanks, Spartcus, I have heard the same thing

Now the question that may start an avalanche:

I have about 700 rounds of 7.62 x 51 FGMM, 175 grain that I purchaed for my LMT MWS...can I give that a try in my action that is labeled .308? I know the 556 vs. 223 issues.

But I have been eye balling those ammo boxes with this stuff, wanting to try in my bolt action.

77
Link Posted: 2/11/2015 12:04:35 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Alpha thanks, Spartcus, I have heard the same thing

Now the question that may start an avalanche:

I have about 700 rounds of 7.62 x 51 FGMM, 175 grain that I purchaed for my LMT MWS...can I give that a try in my action that is labeled .308? I know the 556 vs. 223 issues.

But I have been eye balling those ammo boxes with this stuff, wanting to try in my bolt action.

77
View Quote


It's perfectly fine to fire 7.62 in a 308.
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 4:48:46 PM EDT
Tried the 7.62 175 grain FGMM Saturday. The rifle did not like it. Loaded and ejected OK, but group size increased 50% over the .308 168 FGMM.

77

Link Posted: 2/17/2015 6:35:32 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Tried the 7.62 175 grain FGMM Saturday. The rifle did not like it. Loaded and ejected OK, but group size increased 50% over the .308 168 FGMM.

77

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In my experience the 168 SMK is a more inherently accurate bullet than the 175 SMK is. However, the 175 makes up for that in its ability to buck the wind at distance. 300 yards and out, in normal (windy, breezy, etc.) conditions you may find it provides better accuracy than the 168 load. That's the reason I never test a rifle/ammo combination at 100 yards. It provides a less than accurate reading on what the gun and ammo will do at the distance I'll be shooting the gun. 300 yards is my minimum for serious accuracy testing.
Keith
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 10:10:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Tried the 7.62 175 grain FGMM Saturday. The rifle did not like it. Loaded and ejected OK, but group size increased 50% over the .308 168 FGMM.

77

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At what distance Bronc? I noticed close to the same thing till I shot at 300 yds in a 12mph wind. I noticed almost exact same group size between the 168 and 175 FGMM. But with no wind at 100 yds, the 168 will outshine the 175 in most rifles.
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 10:23:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
I am not reloading yet, but will be set up by the EOY...

I am shooting 168 FGMM in my bolt action now but would like a suggestion for other brands to try. I know the usual ammo out there but what out of the box have you had good luck with?

I printed a 13/16", out to out, 3 shot group today and followed that with a 15/16" out to out group with four rounds. This is basically a half inch and then a 5/8" inch groups.

The rifle is essentially an out of the box Remington SPS Tactical in a Manners stock with a Timney trigger. For being a stock action and barrel, I feel I am getting good groups.

My decision is to take the next step and go with a barrel upgrade. But if spending an additional $500 or more to get another .25", not sure if it is worth it. I am not competing, only with myself.

77
View Quote


Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 11:44:35 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akethan:
[
Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html
View Quote


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.
Link Posted: 2/17/2015 11:52:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bishopm14:


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.
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Originally Posted By bishopm14:
Originally Posted By akethan:
[
Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.



No need to get yourself all worked up. This is a fun challenge and one or two cherry picked 3-4 shot groups really doesn't mean much.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 1:26:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2015 1:38:56 AM EDT by weaverftw]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bishopm14:


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bishopm14:
Originally Posted By akethan:
[
Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.


Calm down, no one is stifling any discussion, it's just a friendly contest and the wall of claim is all in good fun.

OP, if your rifle is shooting .5-.7moa groups with factory FGMM I wouldn't touch the barrel. Spend that money on reloading equipment instead and I bet you'll reap more benefit by hand loading for the rifle as-is. I was able to shrink .6-.7moa groups down to .3-.4 when I switched from 168 FGMM to 168 AMAX hand loads. Before I get called out on the wall of claim, those are not average group sizes but rather representative of roughly 1/2 of my better 5-shot groups ( the smallest 5-shot group I ever got with 168 FGMM was around .5moa, the smallest with hand loads was .27 moa at 150yds). I would definitely start reloading to find the true potential of your rifle before re-barreling it for only a small potential increase in precision.
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 5:47:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2015 6:09:29 AM EDT by 77Bronc]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By weaverftw:


Calm down, no one is stifling any discussion, it's just a friendly contest and the wall of claim is all in good fun.

OP, if your rifle is shooting .5-.7moa groups with factory FGMM I wouldn't touch the barrel. Spend that money on reloading equipment instead and I bet you'll reap more benefit by hand loading for the rifle as-is. I was able to shrink .6-.7moa groups down to .3-.4 when I switched from 168 FGMM to 168 AMAX hand loads. Before I get called out on the wall of claim, those are not average group sizes but rather representative of roughly 1/2 of my better 5-shot groups ( the smallest 5-shot group I ever got with 168 FGMM was around .5moa, the smallest with hand loads was .27 moa at 150yds). I would definitely start reloading to find the true potential of your rifle before re-barreling it for only a small potential increase in precision.
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Originally Posted By weaverftw:
Originally Posted By bishopm14:
Originally Posted By akethan:
[
Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.


Calm down, no one is stifling any discussion, it's just a friendly contest and the wall of claim is all in good fun.

OP, if your rifle is shooting .5-.7moa groups with factory FGMM I wouldn't touch the barrel. Spend that money on reloading equipment instead and I bet you'll reap more benefit by hand loading for the rifle as-is. I was able to shrink .6-.7moa groups down to .3-.4 when I switched from 168 FGMM to 168 AMAX hand loads. Before I get called out on the wall of claim, those are not average group sizes but rather representative of roughly 1/2 of my better 5-shot groups ( the smallest 5-shot group I ever got with 168 FGMM was around .5moa, the smallest with hand loads was .27 moa at 150yds). I would definitely start reloading to find the true potential of your rifle before re-barreling it for only a small potential increase in precision.


This is what I am trying to do, to take the next step, barrel upgrade or not. I have a total of 37 rounds down this barrel, including 15 rounds of shoot-clean-shoot-clean.....


Range I am shooting at: 100 yards

I put this rig together myself, SPS tactical as a base rifle, Manners stock and USOptics scope...SAC added a bolt knob, Timney trigger, Seekins base with screw upgrade. I think I have a great precision set up. I am not competing, only with myself and my set up. Scope sits in Seekins rings that I lapped

Here is a small picture of the rifle



Mark agreed with me to not touch the barrel, bolt truing, barrel crown unit after I shoot it and see what it can do. This is the stage I am in now. The whole set up came out great. I am trying to see if I have a 1 MOA rifle or not, I believe I do.

Like Weaver said, I believe more can be gained with reloading, as my shooting buddies have said too.

As it sits, I have a total of $2200 in the rifle, less the scope. The next step will be an additional $1000 with all of the upgrades.

Which leads to my other post in this forum, cold bore round. I tried some 175 grain 7.62 last weekend with mediacor results, will go back to 168 and see what the first round does.

As far as the Wall of Claim, will plead ignorance, not really sure what this is, unless it is related to 3-4-5-6 round groups as a real yardstick on rifle-shooter capability

77
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 7:44:31 AM EDT
How do you like that Manners stock? How does it compare to a McMillan?
Link Posted: 2/18/2015 11:22:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2015 11:23:19 PM EDT by 77Bronc]
I really like the Manners. My brother in law has three Hill Country Rifles built on McMillian stocks and these are great too. Manners has a test program where they will send you sample stocks with a CC number. I took advantage of this and they shipped me a T, T2 and T4 stock to handle....that is when I made my decision.

I went with the T2A, great fit, Mini Chassis, which I highly recommend. The barrel and action dropped right in, they were not kidding on this claim. I would and will buy another one.

77

Link Posted: 2/19/2015 12:20:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Originally Posted By weaverftw:
Originally Posted By bishopm14:
Originally Posted By akethan:
[
Welcome to The Wall of Claim

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_16_17/51___ARFCOM_1_MOA_ALL_DAY_LONG__Challenge_.html
View Quote


Hmmm... seems like he pointed out that he was referencing a three shot, and a four shot group. If I reference a three shot group, ( I sometimes shoot three to verify drop at range, etc) I point out the number of rounds to basically imply, "It's not five, it's three so it doesn't prove anything."
Since you and your Wall of Claim zealots stifle much discussion of accuracy around here, maybe we need an official disclaimer to reference that.

If I ever care enough to put the TRG down for the little challenge (probably happen right after I care enough to get my tank) , I'll probably make the final group a four shotter just to show it doesn't mean shit.
View Quote


Calm down, no one is stifling any discussion, it's just a friendly contest and the wall of claim is all in good fun.

OP, if your rifle is shooting .5-.7moa groups with factory FGMM I wouldn't touch the barrel. Spend that money on reloading equipment instead and I bet you'll reap more benefit by hand loading for the rifle as-is. I was able to shrink .6-.7moa groups down to .3-.4 when I switched from 168 FGMM to 168 AMAX hand loads. Before I get called out on the wall of claim, those are not average group sizes but rather representative of roughly 1/2 of my better 5-shot groups ( the smallest 5-shot group I ever got with 168 FGMM was around .5moa, the smallest with hand loads was .27 moa at 150yds). I would definitely start reloading to find the true potential of your rifle before re-barreling it for only a small potential increase in precision.
View Quote


This is what I am trying to do, to take the next step, barrel upgrade or not. I have a total of 37 rounds down this barrel, including 15 rounds of shoot-clean-shoot-clean.....


Range I am shooting at: 100 yards

I put this rig together myself, SPS tactical as a base rifle, Manners stock and USOptics scope...SAC added a bolt knob, Timney trigger, Seekins base with screw upgrade. I think I have a great precision set up. I am not competing, only with myself and my set up. Scope sits in Seekins rings that I lapped

Here is a small picture of the rifle

<a href="http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/77Bronc/media/imagejpg5_zps1b5e87f3.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/77Bronc/imagejpg5_zps1b5e87f3.jpg</a>

Mark agreed with me to not touch the barrel, bolt truing, barrel crown unit after I shoot it and see what it can do. This is the stage I am in now. The whole set up came out great. I am trying to see if I have a 1 MOA rifle or not, I believe I do.

Like Weaver said, I believe more can be gained with reloading, as my shooting buddies have said too.

As it sits, I have a total of $2200 in the rifle, less the scope. The next step will be an additional $1000 with all of the upgrades.

Which leads to my other post in this forum, cold bore round. I tried some 175 grain 7.62 last weekend with mediacor results, will go back to 168 and see what the first round does.

As far as the Wall of Claim, will plead ignorance, not really sure what this is, unless it is related to 3-4-5-6 round groups as a real yardstick on rifle-shooter capability

77
View Quote

37 rounds of factory ammo is all and you are worried about accuracy issues?? Dude, you don't even have any copper built up yet...IDK what it is about remington barrels, but they dont plateau on accuracy until 60 - 100 shots, it seems. You have not even shot that rifle enough to see what it is going to do.
Link Posted: 2/19/2015 12:50:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/19/2015 1:03:18 PM EDT by Quackhead69]
Not to mean any disrespect, but the shooter, rifle and the bullet are a single system. I do not know your marksmanship experience, but i do know anyone out there will take your money away from you....the more, the better for them. A scope that will have enough magnification to see the target clearly and enough elevation adjustment to reach the extent of the .308's transonic flight capability is nice, if you will be shooting the .308 to that range, but not necessary, unless with the intention of doing so. Through simple in store comparisons of available products on the market today in the sub $1000 rifle category, I still do not understand the continued popularity with the Freedom Group manufactured Remington brand or the ATA manufactured Savage brand of rifles anyway.

I own a factory rifle system that costs a grand total of $1300 with the Howa rifle, Vortex scope, B&C aftermarket stock and harris bipod.
SMK 168 gr/ imr 4064 handloads, 100 m:


178 gr AMAX over RL-15 handloads, 4 shot group, 100m:



not dissing your equipment, just saying for the $ it should perform for you.
Link Posted: 2/25/2015 2:50:12 AM EDT
I have the 700 Varmint .308. Leave that barrel alone, as stated above its going to hit its sweet spot soon.
Link Posted: 2/26/2015 11:41:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ShannonD:
I have the 700 Varmint .308. Leave that barrel alone, as stated above its going to hit its sweet spot soon.
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OK. Will take your word on this. Just purchased some Honady Match, more FGMM and some Blackhills to try this weekend.
Link Posted: 2/28/2015 6:15:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2015 6:16:33 PM EDT by 77Bronc]
Hornady Match 168 grain AMax, 100 yards, wind in my face



Four rounds, measured spread, 9/16"

Will leave the barrel alone and concentrate on getting my reloading set up going.
77
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 11:49:09 AM EDT
If it likes the FGMM 168 SMK's, be sure to try out some Hornady 168 HPBT, and the Hornady 168 AMAX.
Link Posted: 3/9/2015 12:03:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Hornady Match 168 grain AMax, 100 yards, wind in my face

<a href="http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/77Bronc/media/image.jpg1_zpsjkiphk8j.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j439/77Bronc/image.jpg1_zpsjkiphk8j.jpg</a>

Four rounds, measured spread, 9/16"

Will leave the barrel alone and concentrate on getting my reloading set up going.
77
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That is respectable grouping with factory loads. It will come around.
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