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Posted: 10/27/2014 10:54:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: VA-gunnut]
So I want to start getting into precision shooting and figure I'd start with a .22LR so I can hone down my skills and become a more proficient shooter.  I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for a .22LR bolt action rifle that would be good to start out with; eventually working my way up to a larger caliber at much longer distances.  So far the range that I goes up from 25 to 200 yards.  Any recommendations for under $300 for something that I can start training with?  I see a lot of posts about rifle recommendations for the bigger calibers, but figure I'd ask for the smaller one as I haven't found a lot of forum posts concerning this.  Any and all help is greatly appreciated!  Thank you!
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 3:00:50 AM EDT
[#1]
The Savage MKII and the Ruger American Rimfire seem to be the leaders for affordable .22 bolt actions, though I'm not sure what the prices are.
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 11:06:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jukeboxx13] [#2]
I like the Ruger American rimfire, and its right around your budget.






The only reason why I don't have one is .22 lr is still not the same around here.




Great review with accuracy testing


 
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Do you all agree that getting into precision shooting with a .22 is a good idea?  Right now I have an AR-15 that I built that shoots .223 but kept seeing recommendations to start precision with a .22.
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 1:19:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Absolutely !

You will learn more about bullet drop and reading wind with a .22lr out to 200yds then just about any centerfire cartridge.


The Savage and Ruger are great rifles and I would also recommend a Marlin XT22 you can usually find them used for $100-$150.

Also don't go too cheap on your scope you want something similar to what you will end up using on your centerfire rifle like FFP,mil/mil, MOA/MOA or mild reticle.
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 1:27:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Was looking at a vortex diamondback for my scope.  Thanks again for the input!
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 5:31:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Vortex makes good stuff


I went with the Primary Arms scope on my trainer because it's first focal plane like my scopes on my target rifles

Primary Arms scope
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 7:55:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I would recommend a Savage Mark II and a fixed power SWFA SS MRad 12x or 16x scope.

Link Posted: 9/10/2014 9:16:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Iggyort] [#8]
I am currently using a CZ 455 Tacticool in .22LR with a 25MOA rail supporting a Millet 4-16 x50mm

I regularly shoot at 100 yards often at 200 yards  and can hit a 14" steel plate at 300 yards.I have learned that wind is not my friend









Link Posted: 9/10/2014 9:47:51 PM EDT
[#9]

Originally Posted By Iggyort:


I am currently using a CZ 455 Tacticool in .22LR with a 25MOA rail supporting a Millet 4-16 x50mm



I regularly shoot at 100 yards often at 200 yards  and can hit a 14" steel plate at 300 yards.I have learned that wind is not my friend





http://youtu.be/sA0xZ2Mkn-E
http://youtu.be/pLDC_y3q3ao



View Quote
Nice, but is around a thousand bucks.

 
Link Posted: 9/10/2014 9:58:07 PM EDT
[#10]
22s at distance are very fun. However, blasting ammo won't cut it. You need some standard velocity stuff like Eley Target.

A rifle, scope, and good ammo aren't cheap. But, you will learn more shooting a 22 at 200 than you will by shooting an AR at 200.
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 3:07:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks everyone for the amazing help so far.  I'm looking at getting a savage MK-22.  Any recommendations on which model?  There seems to be a bunch, G, FV, GL, GY, etc.  Once again you guys have been amazing in helping me out!  Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/11/2014 7:06:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By Xyas:
Thanks everyone for the amazing help so far.  I'm looking at getting a savage MK-22.  Any recommendations on which model?  There seems to be a bunch, G, FV, GL, GY, etc.  Once again you guys have been amazing in helping me out!  Thanks!
View Quote


Here are two recommendations.

1- Get involved with a Smallbore League.  Most Gun Clubs have one and you will have the opportunity learn the basic principles of shooting. They usually have loaner equipment for beginners

2-Go over to Sniper's Hide Web Site Rimfire section .Lots of gun info from guys that shoot precision but do training with rimfire.

Good luck
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 7:44:57 AM EDT
[#13]
I didn't want to spend the money on a new .22 so I just made one of my 10/22s match my bolt gun as close as possible .

When I use it it's mostly at 200yards to get max wind effect. I put a 10x40 Bushnell 3200 Elite tac on it zeroed at 25yards, works great and returns to zero everytime.


I really don't shoot it much, I'd rather just use the real thing. I just am not getting good enough accuracy from the 10/22. My 10" Ruger MKII pistol is much more accurate. Supported I can nail a 10" plate just about everytime at 200yards with bulk GoldenBullets. I have an old Tasco 4x ProClass on it which has a 30mm tube with target turrets so I can dial drop out to 300 yards. I shoot the pistol much more.

I guess my point is if you are going with a .22 make sure you get one that is known to be accurate otherwise the lack of accuracy may get confused with improper wind reading or marksmanship practices .

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 11:16:00 AM EDT
[#14]
My long range trainer is Marlin XT-22.  It has a adjustable trigger like Savage and 22" long barrel.  I shot out to 200 yards with Wolf Match 22LR.  Very happy with the rifle.
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 9:19:52 PM EDT
[#15]
OST
Link Posted: 9/12/2014 10:36:45 PM EDT
[#16]
I've had my CZ 452 out to as far as 400 yards. I can say for a fact that 400 yards is very challenging and wind is no friend.



At 400 yards, you'll need a 25MOA base and wall the elevation your scope has... and maybe still a 6 mil hold.
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 12:00:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Xyas:
Do you all agree that getting into precision shooting with a .22 is a good idea?  Right now I have an AR-15 that I built that shoots .223 but kept seeing recommendations to start precision with a .22.
View Quote

I've had the same idea, but never acted on it (yet). I've heard that .22lr at 100 yrds is similar drop and wind drift to .308 at 300 (or something like that). But I don't know if it is true or not.
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 1:43:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Rimfire shooting is an excellent way to learn about long range shooting. I shot a 200 yard smallbore match this last Saturday and it took 26 3/4 MOA to get to 200 from my 50 yard zero.  By comparison, my .308's take 27 3/4 MOA to get to 1000 from a 100 yard zero.  Personally, I think 200 with the .22 is quite a bit harder than 1000 with the .308, the wind just moves those little bullets so much.  Shooting on NRA targets scaled the same (1 MOA X-ring), I score a heck of a lot better with the .308 at 1k.

CZ 452 is a nice entry-level rimfire rifle. I think they phased it out when the 455 came out, but you can still find them on the used market.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 1:50:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Savage makes a good rim fire.  I've got a Savage Fv-SR in a Boyd stock and a 3-9 Leupold mil/mil scope.  Great fun out to 200yrds.
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#20]
I highly recommend the Savage MkII FV-SR. Can be had for around $230 and mine shoots consistent sub MOA and sometimes .5MOA groups at 100 yds. with Federal Ultra Match.

Stocks are crappy though so grab a cheek riser or go for a Boyd's stock.

USE GOOD MATCH AMMO. It is the weak link on .22s. Try different stuff, see what works best and use that. Clean squeaky before trying a new ammo because of the different wax lubes used on match ammo.

Good Luck and Have Fun.

Link Posted: 10/28/2014 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#21]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 23pistol23:



I highly recommend the Savage MkII FV-SR. Can be had for around $230 and mine shoots consistent sub MOA and sometimes .5MOA groups at 100 yds. with Federal Ultra Match.





Stocks are crappy though so grab a cheek riser or go for a Boyd's stock.





USE GOOD MATCH AMMO. It is the weak link on .22s. Try different stuff, see what works best and use that. Clean squeaky before trying a new ammo because of the different wax lubes used on match ammo.





Good Luck and Have Fun.





View Quote



Never used .22 match ammo before.  I've read several brands being mentioned.  Wolf, Eley and the Federal.  Any other options out there us newbs might want to be aware of?





(I currently only have a bunch of bulk pack stuff for general plinking, etc... and about half as much CCI of various flavors, but no match stuff.  And a couple boxes of sub-sonics I haven't tried yet.)




 
 
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 5:22:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAFFE:

Never used .22 match ammo before.  I've read several brands being mentioned.  Wolf, Eley and the Federal.  Any other options out there us newbs might want to be aware of?

(I currently only have a bunch of bulk pack stuff for general plinking, etc... and about half as much CCI of various flavors, but no match stuff.  And a couple boxes of sub-sonics I haven't tried yet.)
   
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAFFE:
Originally Posted By 23pistol23:
I highly recommend the Savage MkII FV-SR. Can be had for around $230 and mine shoots consistent sub MOA and sometimes .5MOA groups at 100 yds. with Federal Ultra Match.

Stocks are crappy though so grab a cheek riser or go for a Boyd's stock.

USE GOOD MATCH AMMO. It is the weak link on .22s. Try different stuff, see what works best and use that. Clean squeaky before trying a new ammo because of the different wax lubes used on match ammo.

Good Luck and Have Fun.


Never used .22 match ammo before.  I've read several brands being mentioned.  Wolf, Eley and the Federal.  Any other options out there us newbs might want to be aware of?

(I currently only have a bunch of bulk pack stuff for general plinking, etc... and about half as much CCI of various flavors, but no match stuff.  And a couple boxes of sub-sonics I haven't tried yet.)
   


I'm partially new to this too and still in the testing phase. SK, Eley, Remington Club Xtra, Wolf MT, Lapua. Try it all to see what it likes. Mine likes the Fed Ultra Match best so far, but I haven't tried the Lapua Midas + yet that Slug-O gave me.

Even round nose stuff that comes in 50 ct boxes is usually better than bulk hollowpoints. CCI Blazer and Fed Auto Match 325, was grouping about 2" at 100 yds. Compared to about 3.5" with bulk Win M22 ammo.
Link Posted: 10/28/2014 5:43:13 PM EDT
[#23]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 23pistol23:
I'm partially new to this too and still in the testing phase. SK, Eley, Remington Club Xtra, Wolf MT, Lapua. Try it all to see what it likes. Mine likes the Fed Ultra Match best so far, but I haven't tried the Lapua Midas + yet that Slug-O gave me.



Even round nose stuff that comes in 50 ct boxes is usually better than bulk hollowpoints. CCI Blazer and Fed Auto Match 325, was grouping about 2" at 100 yds. Compared to about 3.5" with bulk Win M22 ammo.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 23pistol23:



Originally Posted By JAFFE:


Originally Posted By 23pistol23:

I highly recommend the Savage MkII FV-SR. Can be had for around $230 and mine shoots consistent sub MOA and sometimes .5MOA groups at 100 yds. with Federal Ultra Match.



Stocks are crappy though so grab a cheek riser or go for a Boyd's stock.



USE GOOD MATCH AMMO. It is the weak link on .22s. Try different stuff, see what works best and use that. Clean squeaky before trying a new ammo because of the different wax lubes used on match ammo.



Good Luck and Have Fun.





Never used .22 match ammo before.  I've read several brands being mentioned.  Wolf, Eley and the Federal.  Any other options out there us newbs might want to be aware of?



(I currently only have a bunch of bulk pack stuff for general plinking, etc... and about half as much CCI of various flavors, but no match stuff.  And a couple boxes of sub-sonics I haven't tried yet.)

   




I'm partially new to this too and still in the testing phase. SK, Eley, Remington Club Xtra, Wolf MT, Lapua. Try it all to see what it likes. Mine likes the Fed Ultra Match best so far, but I haven't tried the Lapua Midas + yet that Slug-O gave me.



Even round nose stuff that comes in 50 ct boxes is usually better than bulk hollowpoints. CCI Blazer and Fed Auto Match 325, was grouping about 2" at 100 yds. Compared to about 3.5" with bulk Win M22 ammo.



Thanks!  I'll have to look around - most places where I've bought .22 over the years just carry the bulk packs, or flavors of CCI.



 
Link Posted: 10/30/2014 1:31:31 PM EDT
[#24]
CCI Standard Velocity and CCI Green Tag are some better grouping but budget friendly choices.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/22/2014 11:50:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AFSC2W171Z] [#25]
Xyas, I also agree with the concept/practice of using either the .22lr or 17HMR for precision rifle
training.  Here is an article by an champion shooter who agrees also:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/featured/champs-secret-weapon-rimfire-f-tr-trainer/

I understand that you have limited start-up resources but if at all possible do spend
a bit more and buy the Savage Mark II TR.  Eventually you can add some upgrades
as finances allow, these would be:

Better Bottom Metal: http://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3602

Better Pic Rail: http://www.diproductsinc.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=923476&CAT=3602

Skim Coat Acraglas Bedding: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-bedding-adhesives/acraglas-gel--prod1038.aspx?psize=96  Get help before you try this by yourself!

Extra magazines.

Adjustable Cheek Rest: http://www.bradleycheekrest.com/Bradley-Adjustable_c11.htm;jsessionid=BDB449DAC2E35A44AA1EDC2E7550E7E3.m1plqscsfapp03

Buy as wide a selection of different ammo brands and evaluate each for the best accuracy, then stick
with those that shoot the best even if there are cheaper available.

I have done all of this to my MK II TRR and M93 17HMR and found them all to be worth the effort and little money.

Ted
Link Posted: 12/10/2014 1:47:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Shooting accurate .22's is really good practice AND a lot of fun.  

I'd recommend a bolt action, I don't have much experience with the Savages and CZ's but I do spend a lot of time shooting an Anschutz 1907 single shot.  

Wind makes 50-100 yard shooting with a .22 very interesting (frustrating) and a great learning experience.  Just a little breeze will start moving your groups around, and it's an excellent way to learn how to read wind conditions and mirage.  A scope (or spotting scope) that is clear enough to see mirage helps a lot.  I shot with a cheap Barska spotting scope for my first few years of smallbore and realized that I really needed to see more than vague bullet holes.  I picked up a Konus 20-60x80mm this summer at Camp Perry and it works out very well.  Under $200 as well, so you don't have to spend a ton of money to be able to see.

When you test ammo, try everything under 1100 FPS muzzle velocity that you can afford to test.  

If you do end up getting a .22 like the Savage everyone seems to like, I'd recommend at least trying the following- CCI standard velocity, RWS Target Rifle, RWS Rifle Match, Eley Target, Eley Club, and also the Wolf/SK ammo.  All under $10 a box of 50 which is cheap in the precision .22 genre.  I shoot Eley Target and as I don't have a camera to back up my claims I'll just say it works well in my rifle.


Anyway hope some of that rambling helps convince you to buy a rifle and start playing with it.  Just don't expect your investment will remain under $300.  
Link Posted: 12/10/2014 3:01:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer] [#27]
There is no argument that rimfire shooting can be good training and can cost a lot less than shooting centerfire.  The ammo costs less, the rifles cost less, and barrel life is 10X longer in a rimfire (pennies per shot rather than a quarter per shot).


What you are training for should dictate the training rifle you buy.  What are you training to do?  What are you training for?


The shape of the stock, the trigger and the sights are important factors in rimfire training.  Look at the variety of rifle shapes/types in the picture thread.  My rimfire looks almost exactly like my centerfire - stock, trigger, sights, sling, etc.  

You are faced with a conundrum - training with cheap rifles and cheap ammo may not get you where you want to go.  Accurate rifles with good triggers, good sights and good ammo cost more.  If you have an inaccurate rifle and/or bad ammo, you may never know if the off-call shot was you or the rifle.  Learning to call your shots is a key part of shooter training.



P.S. - I would not start at 200 yards with your new rifle.  Start shorter until you learn more and figure out your and its inherent accuracy.  Even 100 yards can be really challenging if there is any sort of wind - it can blow you right off the target.  Do you have access to a 50 foot or 75 foot indoor range?  If so, that's the place to start - minimal wind effects.
Link Posted: 12/14/2014 9:48:06 PM EDT
[#28]
don't discount the ability of older rifles, unless you have to have a new made gun,

surf around for a Remington 513/521/540 type, or a Winchester 75,
older target Mossbergs are good to go as well,

unless worn completely out (doubtful) they will shot as good if not better than the modern guns,
mounting a modern scope can be challenging for some, (not all are grooved)
however they should all have provisions for Irons (Winchester and Remington usually have Redfield type mounts for irons)
Link Posted: 12/28/2014 4:53:30 AM EDT
[#29]
Hello, I am also looking to get into long range shooting. Does the barrel length difference between the Savage MKII FV and the FV-SR make a difference in velocity/accuracy at 200 yards? I'm trying to make up my mind on which one to pull the trigger on so to speak.

Also I am looking at a BSA Tactical Mil-Mil Rifle Scope 30mm Tube 4-14x 44mm scope, does this seem like overkill for a 22? I found it for $180 on ebay.
Link Posted: 12/28/2014 10:07:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer] [#30]
I seem to recall 22LR velocity peaks at about 16" to 18", hence, the plethora of short-barreled 10-22's you see.  I don't recall any dramatic changes up or down due to barrel length*, as long as it was 16" or more.  I'm sure there's a length where you start to lose a lot but I bet it's a very short barrel.  Ammunition type may affect where it peaks.  

Anything longer than that and you have everything the cartridge can deliver.  Really long barrels are used to extend the sight radius, add mass and adjust the balance point of the rifle.



* I think this was in a Precision Shooting Magazine article.  They started with a relatively long barrel. They chronographed some ammo.  Then, they cut the barrel shorter and remeasured velocity.  They repeated this until the barrel was quite short (but probably not shorter than 16" due to NFA compliance).  Does anyone have this article or remember more clearly than I?
Link Posted: 12/29/2014 10:07:16 AM EDT
[#31]
Yeh I don't think length past 16" is gonna gain or lose you much more accuracy if any. As proven my 16" FVSR is an accurate little bastard. Basically you are paying for the barrel, because the stocks are cheap and crappy.

I have never wished that it had a longer barrel to try to gain accuracy. It is the most accurate gun I have at 100yds. If not for a flinch on one of my groups it would be in the rimfire 100yd 1MOA. I think there are only about 3-4 people on that list. Not trying to brag, just showing some of the accuracy you can expect from the 16" barrel. It shot .454 CTC as the best group so far.

As far as the scope, I say go for it. When funds allow it I will probably go with a 4-14x44 PA mil/mil.
Link Posted: 1/1/2015 12:21:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rlc:
don't discount the ability of older rifles, unless you have to have a new made gun,

surf around for a Remington 513/521/540 type, or a Winchester 75,
older target Mossbergs are good to go as well,

unless worn completely out (doubtful) they will shot as good if not better than the modern guns,
mounting a modern scope can be challenging for some, (not all are grooved)
however they should all have provisions for Irons (Winchester and Remington usually have Redfield type mounts for irons)
View Quote


Like this Remington 541S Custom Sporter w/ Leupold 2-7x.  This is as accurate as you can get in a lightweight sporter action, stock and barrel profile.  Factory trigger has no creep or overtravel and is set for exactly 16 ounces.

No, it is not for sale.


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