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Posted: 10/14/2016 5:33:24 PM EDT
OK, I'm a long time prepper ( because the media destroyed my survivalists title) anyway.. I recently moved state to state from a house with quite a bit of storage to a 850SQ ft townhouse... we will be here for at least a year before we can get another house...
I had to down size my water and food storage greatly when we moved. I gave away all my canned goods to friends, and water and short term food to the local food bank.
so realistically... I plan to bug in as long as I can, but long term is not feasible here... I have more ammo and firearms than me and my wife can carry... I have about 20 cases of current MRE's, and short term spring water in bottles(about 10 cases) I have multiple lifestraw's in our packs... what I'm worried about is how much ammo can I carry??? 870, Rifle, two pistols( 9 and a 40)... how much can my wife carry? rifle, pistol.... how much food can I carry? how much food can she carry?
I'm going to be a wreck till we find a house far enough out that we both like. oh yeh I moved from a non-free state to a very free state... so that is half the battle for me.
I'm searching to join a local network, but most people as friendly as they are are pretty tight lipped around here..so it will be a while.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 5:37:28 PM EDT
Temperature controlled storage works for me. A 10X10 is pretty cheap and it will hold a sh*t ton of stuff stacked in there right. Serves as a good cache on top of that. I have two of 'em on the strategic GOOD route.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 5:38:25 PM EDT
Shotgun ammo is heavy. Unless you need the shotgun for bird hunting, an AR is a better choice
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 5:43:17 PM EDT
Start working on your cardio
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 5:44:04 PM EDT
Chill out.

Most shtf scenarios are personal, and of the health or financial type.

Have it get your permit to carry, and it's sounds like you are just fine until you find a forever home.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 6:17:40 PM EDT
You're doing better than 95% of people out there.
I would be tempted to buy an enclosed trailer and store it in a storage building that you can have 24 hour access to.
I have a bugout 20' enclosed trailer that if I leave position one allows me to relocate the important stuff.
My brother has a "camping" 12' enclosed trailer in his garage that he plans to just hookup to and head my way if SHTF.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 6:19:03 PM EDT
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 6:21:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By therealdonjohnson:
Start working on your cardio
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we need a like button here... I constantly preach this to my family and friends... even most fights only last a matter of minutes, because that's about as long as most can go..
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 6:35:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:


we need a like button here... I constantly preach this to my family and friends... even most fights only last a matter of minutes, because that's about as long as most can go..
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
Originally Posted By therealdonjohnson:
Start working on your cardio


we need a like button here... I constantly preach this to my family and friends... even most fights only last a matter of minutes, because that's about as long as most can go..


It's rule number one.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 6:42:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
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That's why I suggested the pre loaded BOT i have far more than I need and can think of many scenarios where I will be selling or bartering with the extra.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 7:48:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2016 7:52:31 PM EDT by motown_steve]
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
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I would say that it depends on your situation and the likelihood of each scenario.

If you're expecting some kind of collapse of Western Civilization/Walking Dead scenario where you have to get out of dodge fast and never expect to return, I would say that is far less likely than one where you have to board up the windows and doors for a while and wait for a situation to simmer down.

I would NEVER consider downsizing my ammo supply. There is an election coming up and one of the drums that the leading democrat candidate has been banging is eliminating or limiting bulk ammo purchases. I consider this to be an infinitely more likely scenario than having to run for my life with only what I can carry and never look back. If the Democrats get their way and they limit ammo availability then do you want to still be able to shoot years from now? Are you going to be kicking yourself in a year because you only have 500 rounds of ammo on hand and they just limited purchase quantities to 50 rounds per sale? The absolute LAST thing I would do is downsize my ammo supply.

Worst case scenario, IF you ever do have to run from the collapse of Western Civilization or a horde of some sort, then yes, take what you can carry and leave the rest. Sometimes you have to cut and run, but that is less likely than other scenarios I think.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 8:03:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2016 8:06:41 PM EDT by buck19delta]
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Originally Posted By mkj:
Shotgun ammo is heavy. Unless you need the shotgun for bird hunting, an AR is a better choice
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this... shotgun is the worst thing there is for ammo bulkiness, and lowest shots per lb of ammo.. I have several.. just saying its the last gun id try to walk across America with, hauling my own ammo.

mre's are great for some things.. they suck at others. long term food storage, the winner is dried stuff... or dehydrated stuff... it costs more, but lasts almost forever.. you might want to look into that, its much less sensitive to temp changes as well IMHO... its also very tasty.. you could easily rotate it thru your kitchen 20-30 years from now.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 8:11:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
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you don't have to take ammo anywhere.... store your ammo in ammo cans, and put it someplace hard to find.. like the crawlspace under your house. you can even vac seal ammo, etc to make it tougher and less likely to get moisture, etc... think of it as a savings account.... hide it, or bury it... it wont go bad, and you will likely be able to come back and get it later...survival is not always about firefights, or short term. what if something lasts years?? decades? ammo is valuable... it literally might become extremely hard to find / afford. that's a really good feeling having stuff stashed... even if your house burns down, you have some stuff hidden.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:03:51 PM EDT
ammo and seeds
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:35:08 PM EDT
I'm planing to bugging in as well. And on premise storage is tight.1100sq feet
Have a storage unit for the over lap. Also a staging area if the
house would be lost for some reason!
Your probably doing the same as me.
(The wife does not want any in our main living area)
But where ever I can I buy or build shelves!!!
That Townhouse should have a garage. Cupboards with doors!!!
Is my suggestion! Unless you have a very dry basement!
Is there any place you could put a cache away from the TH? Family? Old friends?
Keep us posted! Good luck!!!


PITA45
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:38:39 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By katrina24:
ammo and seeds
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What is the world are seeds going to get you?
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:39:45 PM EDT
Downsize your ammo supply by not buying any to replace what you shoot during the next panic.
Link Posted: 10/14/2016 9:49:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2016 9:50:23 PM EDT by machinegunseabee]
Caches OP along your most likely routes of exfiltration.

Plan your routes now with METT-TC

Mission

Enemy

Terrain & Weather - Use KOCOA - Key Terrain Observation and Fields of Fire, Cover and Concealment, Obstacles, Avenues of Approach to help you plan for choke points, etc.

Troops

Time Available

Civilian Considerations

Even if you don't think you would ever need it don't put your eggs in one basket. Example could be as simple as your house burning to the ground or a check point where they will inspect your vehicle.

Caches don't have to be overly complex and can be as simple as a storage unit away from your house or a container buried in your backyard under a plant or fence post.

I think if you are worried about having enough of X to last you need to look into establishing some Caches to sustain yourself and others.

The Ranger handbook is a good place to start for planning.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 1:58:20 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
What is the world are seeds going to get you?
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Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
ammo and seeds
What is the world are seeds going to get you?



Seriously? Future food source?
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 6:42:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2016 6:44:23 AM EDT by Dr_Dickie]
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Originally Posted By rarms:



Seriously? Future food source?
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Originally Posted By rarms:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
ammo and seeds
What is the world are seeds going to get you?



Seriously? Future food source?
He said that he is going to be moving into a new house in a year. I would pick my next house so that I could put in a decent garden.
I have practically no backyard, but I have packed it with a garden. And the Seminole pumpkins I grew won my wife over to the idea (I made some killer pumpkin bread that she is in love with).
My view on prepping is not so much for a short term (that is pretty easily covered), but slowly trying to move to a more sustainable lifestyle.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 7:36:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By rarms:



Seriously? Future food source?
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Originally Posted By rarms:
Originally Posted By Rat_Patrol:
Originally Posted By katrina24:
ammo and seeds
What is the world are seeds going to get you?



Seriously? Future food source?


I am pretty sure he means that seeds alone are just about useless. Unless your already gardening now your chances of being successful in and emergency situation is about zero.

Its one thing to grow a few tomato's or a few cucumbers, but big gardening is not easy. It takes a lot of time, knowledge and pre-planning. Unless you have spent years sustenance gardening, doing so when its actually needed is never going to happen.

I spent several years trying to have a successful big garden, something that would give us enough to can and put something back. Yea well I gave up last year. Its way to much work vs reward. When I garden now its small scale. I have spent the last few years doing the chicken thing instead of gardening. Its much more rewarding IMHO, when combined with a small scale garden.

---

OP: take a deep breath and lay things out logically. Most likely first least likely last.

The only way I would go get rid of any ammo is through target practice and training.

The Shotgun comments are correct. Anything on foot should never involve a shotgun. Those are for home, hunting, or vehicle transport.

Heck if I had to bug out on foot I would have to seriously consider even bringing a center fire rifle. A good handgun, and if I felt the need for some type of long gun it would be a 22LR.

-Personal ammo or gun decisions aside you seem to be at a in a good place. Find your home first, worry about the other stuff second.

---

I have the home I want, and I have even been eyeballing my ammo stash in the past year or so and thinking, damn, what would I ever do if I had to move that on foot.

So, when I plink away I don't worry about going through my ammo anymore. I haven't even though about buying more, and don't plan to any time soon. I don't shoot enough to justify having an ammo can fort, so a few keep me happy. Of course its going to take me several years of plinking to get to that level (hunting ammo not included.)

But keep it realistic: most likely first, least likely last.

Job loss, illness, weather event... Sure I think economic collapse is possible, and will occur in some way at some point, but the chances of firing more then even a few dozen rounds state side in such an event is probably not realistic. If any one thinks it is you need to turn off mad max. Looking at what has happened through human history and around the globe is a good gauge IMHO.

OF course there is the unknown so a few ammo cans keep me happy... Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:00:22 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By STX45:
Temperature controlled storage works for me. A 10X10 is pretty cheap and it will hold a sh*t ton of stuff stacked in there right. Serves as a good cache on top of that. I have two of 'em on the strategic GOOD route.
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Wow, no way I could afford that and still sleep at night.

Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:05:52 PM EDT
If you'd plan to bug out, might be time to make something to bugout too. Close relatives or very good friends might be willing to keep a stash for you. I know it's a LOT to suggest buying property in a better place, so I won't, but it would be ideal.

For guns and ammo...
(if leaving on foot)
I'd say look at the military, and try not to carry more ammo than the basic combat load. One primary (rifle/carbine type) with 7 magazines, and a sidearm with 2 spare magazines at the most.

As far as your wife goes... a lightweight pistol-config AR, maybe half the ammo, a smaller sidearm and less ammo for it.

I would have all 5.56 and 9mm. You can use another caliber, like 40sw, but not 45acp. No shotgun or shotgun ammo, etc. Just no mixing calibers or mag types.

If you can carry more after that much on the guns, ammo, and gear; then I'd consider adding some of the remaining mags+ammo.

I'm there with you on too much stuff for the family and I to carry, even if we were doubled. It's bug-in and defend if practical, or ditch and try to take it back.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:07:05 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
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Sell the .40 and guns, doesn't do anything better than 9mm.

Shoot the shotgun ammo to get proficient or better then just keep a few hundred rounds for long term SHTF

A couple K of any round is more than enough for SHTF. I have more for financial reasons to shoot into the future at todays prices not that I think I'll ever shoot anywhere near that after the baloon goes up. Realistically less that a hundred rounds of anything and the trouble will have passed or I'll be dead.

Down size platforms to 5.56, 9mm and 12ga and maybe a .22 and you'll have way more than you'll ever need for SHTF. Spare parts to keep them running.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:10:55 PM EDT
A story I've heard... American troops were surrounded by the British in the Revolutionary War. The British told them they'd be allowed to escape if they left all their weapons and supplies behind.

The Americans did, and surrendered the guns and ammo that were so scarce for the war effort.

They had to beg, borrow, and steal; but they rearmed and fought again later. We know how the rest of the story goes.


So.... this kind of applies, though I'm not saying someone wouldn't shoot you in the back with a gun that had just been yours. It might seem crazy to us to dump your prized bugout AR, but it could be necessary.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:17:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2016 8:17:32 PM EDT by CavScout8]
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Originally Posted By Recusance:

Sell the .40 and guns, doesn't do anything better than 9mm.

Shoot the shotgun ammo to get proficient or better then just keep a few hundred rounds for long term SHTF

A couple K of any round is more than enough for SHTF. I have more for financial reasons to shoot into the future at todays prices not that I think I'll ever shoot anywhere near that after the baloon goes up. Realistically less that a hundred rounds of anything and the trouble will have passed or I'll be dead.

Down size platforms to 5.56, 9mm and 12ga and maybe a .22 and you'll have way more than you'll ever need for SHTF. Spare parts to keep them running.
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Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input

Sell the .40 and guns, doesn't do anything better than 9mm.

Shoot the shotgun ammo to get proficient or better then just keep a few hundred rounds for long term SHTF

A couple K of any round is more than enough for SHTF. I have more for financial reasons to shoot into the future at todays prices not that I think I'll ever shoot anywhere near that after the baloon goes up. Realistically less that a hundred rounds of anything and the trouble will have passed or I'll be dead.

Down size platforms to 5.56, 9mm and 12ga and maybe a .22 and you'll have way more than you'll ever need for SHTF. Spare parts to keep them running.


I'd go to 9mm just for the weight/size savings, commonality, capacity, etc; but what 40sw does better than 9mm is damage what it hits. The numbers are better. Otherwise we'd all be using 380auto or smaller instead of 9mm...

A 12ga shotgun... because you have to have 'one of each' of the 'main three'. Probably the most overrated guns. Not saying they don't have a place, but that place is mainly just dropping birds. Hard to justify the weight and bulk if bugging out.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:34:10 PM EDT
How much you can carry, how far you can carry it, and how fast you can carry it varies tremendously from person to person, over a single person's lifespan, and in relation to injuries, weather, terrain, lighting conditions.

You are always an ankle twist away from from living in Crap Town.

Stay reasonably fit, sock away what you can, and realize that once you are satisfactorily "prepped" your kids will throw it all out after you die.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 8:37:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:


I'd go to 9mm just for the weight/size savings, commonality, capacity, etc; but what 40sw does better than 9mm is damage what it hits. The numbers are better. Otherwise we'd all be using 380auto or smaller instead of 9mm...

A 12ga shotgun... because you have to have 'one of each' of the 'main three'. Probably the most overrated guns. Not saying they don't have a place, but that place is mainly just dropping birds. Hard to justify the weight and bulk if bugging out.
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Originally Posted By CavScout8:
Originally Posted By Recusance:
Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input

Sell the .40 and guns, doesn't do anything better than 9mm.

Shoot the shotgun ammo to get proficient or better then just keep a few hundred rounds for long term SHTF

A couple K of any round is more than enough for SHTF. I have more for financial reasons to shoot into the future at todays prices not that I think I'll ever shoot anywhere near that after the baloon goes up. Realistically less that a hundred rounds of anything and the trouble will have passed or I'll be dead.

Down size platforms to 5.56, 9mm and 12ga and maybe a .22 and you'll have way more than you'll ever need for SHTF. Spare parts to keep them running.


I'd go to 9mm just for the weight/size savings, commonality, capacity, etc; but what 40sw does better than 9mm is damage what it hits. The numbers are better. Otherwise we'd all be using 380auto or smaller instead of 9mm...

A 12ga shotgun... because you have to have 'one of each' of the 'main three'. Probably the most overrated guns. Not saying they don't have a place, but that place is mainly just dropping birds. Hard to justify the weight and bulk if bugging out.

I'm not a caliber slave. 9mm will do anything you can need a handgun for. The 9,.40, .45 caliber wars are for retards.

Shotgun for homestead defense makes sense.

Rifle trump them all for killing power and ammo capacity.

One gun won't do it all, but handguns are for contact distance to 10 yards, if you can get 15 yards away, moving (running) is better than any larger caliber in surviving a gun fight. That's why caliber at these distances doesn't really matter. and yes, I am comfortable carrying a .380 for handgun duty because I know how to employ it correctly.

Shotguns help with hitting those moving targets, but have low ammo capacity.

Rifles allow you to be very far away and hit moving and stationary targets. especially if your adversary does not have a rifle.

I would never tell you you're wrong, a .40 is a fine caliber. So is .45.....so is 10mm and .44mag and .22lr. All will do the job if you use your head first and don't rely on the gun as a talisman that will get you out of trouble.

Everyone should carry what they like and trust. But no one will ever convince me that one handgun caliber is "better" than another. I'veseen way to many stats and instances where a .45 to the head of the bad guy and he walked into the hospital (Blew his jaw off and exited near his right ear) and a 9mm to the chest dropped a 250lb man in his tracks DRT.
Link Posted: 10/16/2016 10:15:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By gunwolf:
what I'm kinda getting at is I look at my closet and see way more ammo than I could ever carry.. do I leave all that behind for the next guy? or do I start to realistically downsize now and use the funds for something more substantial? do you really think me and the wife need 10K of a certain round? unless your superman I don't think anyone could shoot it out that long... I'm not in a panick or anything ..just trying to seriously rethink my current situation. thanks for the input
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A large ammo stash is a hedge against inflation. Not everything should be looked at through the lense of the bug out. I have ten times the ammo I could carry bugging out on foot. That ammo is so I can continue to shoot and practice for the day when I must fire a few rounds in defense.
Link Posted: 10/25/2016 2:45:00 AM EDT
I have always had a hard time understanding where it is that people plan on bugging out to. Where are you going to go if things are so bad that you have to leave your home? IMO, if things are that bad everyone in your state or country will be affected. If something really bad happened, we would loose 1/3 of the people in weeks from hunger and no health care. Another 1/3 in 2-3 months from hunger and disease. Most regular people only have a week of food stored. Hell, half of America is unarmed or under stocked in ammo. I know lots of guys that have guns and 30 rounds or less for each caliber. We all know these people. They are the ones who think that they will just go to your house if things go bad. It like the old saying, "I don't have to out run the bear, I just have out run you". I would stock enough to out last most people and then add enough to make sure you can survive if things don't go as planned for a season if needed.
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