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2/21/2020 11:35:28 PM
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:39:45 AM EST
Ok searching this forum and also the tactical gear forum. In the gear forum Looks like most are geared up for hard core gun battles wich I know better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I am looking for a happy medium.

what I am getting at is how much should the smart prepared have? I was wondering if maybe one rig per specific firearm because I have different shtf weapons depending on the s part. (though this would be a lot of rigs)

I was thinking maybe an external tactical body armor with no pouches on it then have a chest rig that can fit over-it and also on it's own for less of a threat. Or Maybe a plate carrier with pouches on it and a concealable armor under?Then a LBC or some other kind of satchel/holster bag for more discreet situations or a 3 day pack.

I guess I am trying to ask how much web/tactical gear do you all have? I am trying to go with the two of everything approach but some pouches are weapon magazine specific and I don't want my gear room looking like a surplus store (though it already does)

I am guessing each weapon system should have a loadout kit that can hold a fighting load of ammo, food, and water.

my web gear as of now is an eagle skd universal chest rig, DBT 3 day pack, eagle pc with pouches, LBC satchel (internal pals webbing and holster). I also have a large box of old alice/molle belts, pouches, and accessories for force multiplying.

I have been shopping around and if you don't mind DCU or woodland you can get some cheap rigs..but wondering what is really needed.

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:40:07 AM EST
I've got to much to answer your question

I'm confused though you said

my web gear as of now is an eagle skd universal chest rig, DBT 3 day pack, eagle pc with pouches, LBC satchel (internal pals webbing and holster). I also have a large box of old alice/molle belts, pouches, and accessories for force multiplying.

I mean unless your looking for stuff as handouts won't the eagle rig work with any platform? Your talking about this one correct?

Link Posted: 7/20/2008 8:49:21 AM EST
For me it's all about comfort and moveability. I have a TT MAV, set up on the light side. I can load out 12 mags, but like to keep it at 8 AR mags, 3 pistol mags, one knife, 2 large and 2 small utility, and a hydration bladder on the back.

I have a couple of old LBV's and a whole lot of old alice gear that I keep around as extras, it's not fancy but will more then work in a pinch. I don't plan on fighting mortal combat anytime soon, so I like to keep it simple.

I am guessing each weapon system should have a loadout kit that can hold a fighting load of ammo, food, and water. Ammo, med kit and water. Food is kind of over rated in a firefight. Most encounters will be over with before you can even boil up coffee. If they are not your fucked anyway, and food will be of little concern to you.

YMMV

BT
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 9:29:46 AM EST
2 sets ups for my primary and 1 set up for my secondary.
primary has a "mobile" setup aka- for urban tight areas and a setup geared for 2-4 days of "patrol" use so to speak...

only difference is one has extra food,shelter and ammo..while the one is more weapons only w/some h20 and minimal food( cliff bars)
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 10:27:27 AM EST
Are you planning to bug in and run patrols, or are you planning to bug out with your weapons and gear?

For my Bug Out plans I have a TT 2 piece with 2 x 2 mag single, a pistol holster, 1 x 2 mag pistol mag pouch. I've got the load set with only 2 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, 1 pistol. This will be stowed with my Rifle unless things have gone very very badly in the world.

This set-up counterbalances my pack pretty well, can fit under most clothes, and realistically will get me away from most problems. Extra mags are in the Ruck. If I need more than 90 rds .223 and 40ish rds of pistol ammo before I can drop ruck and reload, i'm in deep deep trouble.

The ShootOut in LA that changed weapon standards for police in 1997 had the 2 badguys firing 1200 rds of ammo (including the 100 to kick off the bank robbery), so 600 rds each. They were fired at with an estimated 600 rounds off ammunition! That's with a nearly hour long gunfight. It lasted that long because of weapon restrictions for the police and body armor for th bad guys.

If you had come to any of the AR15 neighborhoods post SHTF with that set-up I feel strongly the round count would have been MUCH lower.

Again, if i'm planning to carry 360 rds of .223 (12 mags on chest) I'm looking for something more than I am likely to survive.

I would rather hit cover quickly and lay low than shuffle along with 500 rds of ammo strapped to my chest and legs. I think this level of loadout works with fire teams because of the ability to cover and supress fire. I don't have a fire team to watch my 6.

Don't confuse the 3 gun match loadouts, and Red Dawn fantasy loadouts with what is more realistic. Do some googles for the mondern solider loadouts and pay close attention to the fact that resupply is assumed every 24-48 hrs, a vehicle is assumed in most modern cases, and they dump most of that when they enter a fight.

I'm not a seasoned gun fighter, never shot anyone, but I have worn my gear for a few several hours at a time in 100 degree humid weather. I'm drained very quickly, it promotes reduction.

Also, never forget, a 30.00 pouch for a mag is what 100lbs of rice?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:22:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By acman145acp:
I've got to much to answer your question

I'm confused though you said

my web gear as of now is an eagle skd universal chest rig, DBT 3 day pack, eagle pc with pouches, LBC satchel (internal pals webbing and holster). I also have a large box of old alice/molle belts, pouches, and accessories for force multiplying.

I mean unless your looking for stuff as handouts won't the eagle rig work with any platform? Your talking about this one correct?



Yea I have that rig. works well with most except the mp5 mags though I can fit the K model in my satchel.

thanks everyone for the great feedback. yea I think I never Carried more than 8 mags in the Marines for standard loadouts so I can't see caring more than that. I plan on bugging in but you never know. I'm trying to figure if I should ditch the plate carrier now and use that for a cheaper LBV and some other preps.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:57:03 PM EST
I separated my pistol and pistol mags onto a belt. That way I am drop my chest rig and still have a fighting firearm with me. I keep my three extra pistol mags on this belt.

My chest rig has room for 12 mags, but I only keep 8 in there total. That is plenty unless the zombies attack!

I have a high speed gear warlord chest rig that is very comfortable.


My pack only contains 2 extra AR mags and no other reloads. No damn way I am going to shoot it out with some dumb ass when I am just trying to get somewhere safe. I may not even fire at all if I have a quick egress. I feel very comfortable with this load out.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:43:23 AM EST
I go really light these days.

I used to think different firearms and different gear setups were the direction to head but these days I lean more towards one setup that I know and can use for classes and everything else.

Some of my handgun stuff is mag holders for winter ccw when heavier clothing lets me carry mags in holders on the outside of the belt instead of something iwb.

If I need more then a backpack gets used.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 3:20:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By Torin:
Are you planning to bug in and run patrols, or are you planning to bug out with your weapons and gear?

For my Bug Out plans I have a TT 2 piece with 2 x 2 mag single, a pistol holster, 1 x 2 mag pistol mag pouch. I've got the load set with only 2 AR mags, 2 pistol mags, 1 pistol. This will be stowed with my Rifle unless things have gone very very badly in the world.

This set-up counterbalances my pack pretty well, can fit under most clothes, and realistically will get me away from most problems. Extra mags are in the Ruck. If I need more than 90 rds .223 and 40ish rds of pistol ammo before I can drop ruck and reload, i'm in deep deep trouble.

The ShootOut in LA that changed weapon standards for police in 1997 had the 2 badguys firing 1200 rds of ammo (including the 100 to kick off the bank robbery), so 600 rds each. They were fired at with an estimated 600 rounds off ammunition! That's with a nearly hour long gunfight. It lasted that long because of weapon restrictions for the police and body armor for th bad guys.

If you had come to any of the AR15 neighborhoods post SHTF with that set-up I feel strongly the round count would have been MUCH lower.

Again, if i'm planning to carry 360 rds of .223 (12 mags on chest) I'm looking for something more than I am likely to survive.

I would rather hit cover quickly and lay low than shuffle along with 500 rds of ammo strapped to my chest and legs. I think this level of loadout works with fire teams because of the ability to cover and supress fire. I don't have a fire team to watch my 6.

Don't confuse the 3 gun match loadouts, and Red Dawn fantasy loadouts with what is more realistic. Do some googles for the mondern solider loadouts and pay close attention to the fact that resupply is assumed every 24-48 hrs, a vehicle is assumed in most modern cases, and they dump most of that when they enter a fight.

I'm not a seasoned gun fighter, never shot anyone, but I have worn my gear for a few several hours at a time in 100 degree humid weather. I'm drained very quickly, it promotes reduction.

Also, never forget, a 30.00 pouch for a mag is what 100lbs of rice?


The voice of reason. Well said
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 7:41:33 AM EST
I teach a class here at work about "loading in lines". Like a previous poster said, I have my knife, pistol, 2 pistol mags, and a multi-tool on a belt that is basically attached to me. Basic survival and navigation is in pockets, also attached to me. The rest of the gear goes on in subsequent lines, and can be tailored to reduce weight if the gear isn't needed.

I toted 10 magazines overseas, and never went through them all in one event. But I toted them on the off-chance that I sure as hell didn't want to run out. For a BugIn, having fewer on me but available nearby would be just fine. For a BugOut, having fewer on me but more at the destination would be something I'd be comfortable with too.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 9:40:49 AM EST
I own zero web/tactical load-bearing gear, but my idea of "preps" are a bit different from many here. I have considered some kind of better rig to hold mags (full and empty), but that's more for fun than anything I would consider a necessity.

Pick your gear and train based on what you anticipate doing. If you're planning on being prepared for an expended firefight, gear for that. If you're planning for more "natural disaster" related situations, gear for that. If you plan for more of a hybrid approach (with a "tactical" component more like E&E, where engagement is kept to a minimum and avoided if possible), gear for that. There are proponents of all of these philosophies here and a wealth of information available. Capitalize on your strengths, compensate for your weaknesses. Test yourself and your gear, then re-evaluate.
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 10:32:20 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2008 10:33:31 AM EST by KBL]
Sounds like a reasonable consensus...different rigs for different situations.

There's different times of the year/temperatures and different rigs for each. Then there's short duration needs vs. longer duration needs. I change around a couple of times a year, but I usually have one light/short sustainment rig, and one bulkier/longer sustainment rig set up all the time. Then I always have one rig that is set-up just for carrying a shotgun and a pistol with limited sustainment supplies. I've always thought that the latter might be the most useful, though, given my current surroundings.

And despite having the gear to do so, my idea of survival is to avoid hard core gun battles however and wherever I can....
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 11:34:50 AM EST

Originally Posted By TAP:
I toted 10 magazines overseas, and never went through them all in one event. But I toted them on the off-chance that I sure as hell didn't want to run out. For a BugIn, having fewer on me but available nearby would be just fine. For a BugOut, having fewer on me but more at the destination would be something I'd be comfortable with too.


This is a very important statement! I imagine TAP you were actually doing the opposite of what we should be doing in most cases SHTF... you were running TOWARDS the gunfire! :) Thank you for sharing!
Link Posted: 7/21/2008 2:55:22 PM EST

Originally Posted By dayphotog:
...wondering what is really needed.


I'm not very tacticool; I use one of these bags from CTD. It can hold up to a dozen AR magazines but I limit mine to eight. Two of the pouches hold clear plastic fishing lure boxes, one with a basic AR cleaning/lube kit and the other some survival items (SAK, pocket sharpener, fire starting supplies, a pair of boot laces, some very basic FA items). One of the reviewers of this item at CTD has a good idea. Replace the plastic that connects strap to pouch with a couple of small carabiners. This makes for an obviously stronger connection but also allows you to snap one onto a belt loop to steady the pouch as you move around. I haven't done it yet with mine but plan to soon.

Link Posted: 7/21/2008 5:25:49 PM EST
This is good reading. I too am looking to purchase some web gear for mags, radios, and the pistol. I had looked at some 5.11 gear at a local police supply that uses the molle loops. I couldn't decide what to get with doing some research. My son and I (plus GF's) will be bugging in unless an asteroid is targeting our place as ground zero. I was thinking two double AR mag pouches with a radio pouch and maybe a pistol holster. My need is for two sets of each. I don't expect to bug out because there is no family member in a location better than mine. So am I wrong in thinking 120 rounds is okay per person? Our outside trips would be limited to getting water at an underground spring at the back of my fish pond. The walk is about 250 yards with plenty of cover from any surviving neighbors.

RS
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:38:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By justbill:

Originally Posted By dayphotog:
...wondering what is really needed.


I'm not very tacticool; I use one of these bags from CTD. It can hold up to a dozen AR magazines but I limit mine to eight. Two of the pouches hold clear plastic fishing lure boxes, one with a basic AR cleaning/lube kit and the other some survival items (SAK, pocket sharpener, fire starting supplies, a pair of boot laces, some very basic FA items). One of the reviewers of this item at CTD has a good idea. Replace the plastic that connects strap to pouch with a couple of small carabiners. This makes for an obviously stronger connection but also allows you to snap one onto a belt loop to steady the pouch as you move around. I haven't done it yet with mine but plan to soon.

www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/lgprod/ZAA-024.jpg


That's a good idea about the carabiner. I have this mag pouch that I got from LA Police Gear. It also has a D-ring in each corner for either tie-downs or to hang stuff on. It'll hold 9 AR mags but I agree about using one pouch for survival gear.

It isn't fancy but is well made and is less obtrusive and less "mil-spec" than a vest. I think flying under the radar of authorities is probably the smartest thing when the SHTF.


http://www.lapolicegear.com/t2camapo.html


It looks like they just went up about $5 in price. I wonder if it was demand or just the rising cost of supplies.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 3:55:41 PM EST
If you don't mind woodland camo, someone just posted this in the Equipment Exchange.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=90&t=565595

The price is right.
Link Posted: 7/22/2008 7:53:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By radioshooter:
This is good reading. I too am looking to purchase some web gear for mags, radios, and the pistol. I had looked at some 5.11 gear at a local police supply that uses the molle loops. I couldn't decide what to get with doing some research. My son and I (plus GF's) will be bugging in unless an asteroid is targeting our place as ground zero. I was thinking two double AR mag pouches with a radio pouch and maybe a pistol holster. My need is for two sets of each. I don't expect to bug out because there is no family member in a location better than mine. So am I wrong in thinking 120 rounds is okay per person? Our outside trips would be limited to getting water at an underground spring at the back of my fish pond. The walk is about 250 yards with plenty of cover from any surviving neighbors.

RS


Established cover, a radio to call in help, a max of 250 yds with cover. This is about as set as you can get. If things get bad enough that you need more than that to fetch water, I wouldn't leave the house for water without a sniper on the roof and spending at least 3 hours watching the treeline for snipers.

It's an expensive experiment, but load up with 4 AR mags +1 in the rifle, and the pistol mags. Then set a timer, place 3 targets at 3 different ranges in a 45 degree arch in front of you (15 yds/30yds/50yds). Place a pair of shots center mass on target 1, then 2, then 3, then 1, then 2, when you run out reload. When you run out of rifle ammo transition to the pistol and repeat. Score yourself afterwards # of hits in the sweet spot of the center mass, and your overall time. My bet is you will be tired of shooting before it's done, and before the first mag is over your back-up could show up to help.

With all of that said, that's what I have on my chest rig, and I don't think it's too heavy or cumbersome for longterm wear, and if i'm lucky will last me a lifetime.
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 1:40:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By Torin:

Originally Posted By radioshooter:
This is good reading. I too am looking to purchase some web gear for mags, radios, and the pistol. I had looked at some 5.11 gear at a local police supply that uses the molle loops. I couldn't decide what to get with doing some research. My son and I (plus GF's) will be bugging in unless an asteroid is targeting our place as ground zero. I was thinking two double AR mag pouches with a radio pouch and maybe a pistol holster. My need is for two sets of each. I don't expect to bug out because there is no family member in a location better than mine. So am I wrong in thinking 120 rounds is okay per person? Our outside trips would be limited to getting water at an underground spring at the back of my fish pond. The walk is about 250 yards with plenty of cover from any surviving neighbors.

RS


Established cover, a radio to call in help, a max of 250 yds with cover. This is about as set as you can get. If things get bad enough that you need more than that to fetch water, I wouldn't leave the house for water without a sniper on the roof and spending at least 3 hours watching the treeline for snipers.

It's an expensive experiment, but load up with 4 AR mags +1 in the rifle, and the pistol mags. Then set a timer, place 3 targets at 3 different ranges in a 45 degree arch in front of you (15 yds/30yds/50yds). Place a pair of shots center mass on target 1, then 2, then 3, then 1, then 2, when you run out reload. When you run out of rifle ammo transition to the pistol and repeat. Score yourself afterwards # of hits in the sweet spot of the center mass, and your overall time. My bet is you will be tired of shooting before it's done, and before the first mag is over your back-up could show up to help.

With all of that said, that's what I have on my chest rig, and I don't think it's too heavy or cumbersome for longterm wear, and if i'm lucky will last me a lifetime.




have someone else set those targets out while you load up and go get water.
Oh time yourself before hand no shooting....... then time yourself after.
cant shoot- do it with airsoft or by eyes, have the person that set the targets call you dead if you take to long or dont see/pass a target.

it'll wake up you big time, even with out cammo'd targets!!!!!!!

fwiw
my non feild set up is only 4 30 rnd mags + 1 in the rifle and sidearm with 3 mags.
just a basic TT mesh flc style vest, holds BOK, bladder,mags,gloves and radio. thats it.
YMMV
Link Posted: 7/23/2008 2:41:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/26/2008 12:41:26 AM EST
OP
Your question is going to be answered differently by each person. If you haven't lugged around a lot of gear laid over a heavy set of body armor, I would advise doing so before you make it part of your preps. You're going to get hot very quickly moving around with a full set of plates in an IBA type body armor, plus your ruck and the rest of your gear.
For what its worth, I work around a system comprised of an LBE type arrangement, drop leg holster on one side, drop leg first aid and extra ammo on the opposite leg, and a medium ALICE-sized pack thats put out by Camelbak. For me, thats more than adequate for anything short of fighting a war and allows me freedom of movement.
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 11:21:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/3/2008 11:23:02 AM EST by dayphotog]

Originally Posted By tc556guy:
OP
Your question is going to be answered differently by each person. If you haven't lugged around a lot of gear laid over a heavy set of body armor, I would advise doing so before you make it part of your preps. You're going to get hot very quickly moving around with a full set of plates in an IBA type body armor, plus your ruck and the rest of your gear.
For what its worth, I work around a system comprised of an LBE type arrangement, drop leg holster on one side, drop leg first aid and extra ammo on the opposite leg, and a medium ALICE-sized pack thats put out by Camelbak. For me, thats more than adequate for anything short of fighting a war and allows me freedom of movement.



yea been there done that before (former 0311) (PT is my high priority on preps)


and I like the idea of keeping a good amount on the belt like you said though.

I was thinking also on having extra because if it's a true SHTF it would be hard to make/acquire and if I would have to "hand out" guns for force multiplying I would want to give them some kind of way to carry the ammo.

right now I am just keeping my eagle skd rig which I can wear with or without tactical armor. A old FLC carrier for hot weather "recon" type stuff with no armor (but with butt pack, and more pouches for extra supplies) my tactical discreet satchel for more common SHTF (it can hold pistol, mags, food, ect)

for force multiplying I am going to use my battle packed ammo as the bandoleers can have that white string removed and they can then hold magazines too.


thanks to everyone for some great feedback. It all helped a lot
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 2:01:41 PM EST
Is the FLC a decent rig to start with to figure out which direction I need to go? For starters I need something on the range to get a feel for it. I have a heavy armor set for callouts on our entry team but I know I won't move fast or far with that. I'm also looking for something but uncertain what to start with.
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 6:47:13 PM EST
I have posted this before, but I really like this setup for light/fast/concealable/pack friendly. TT min mav. Sold here in the EE by Rainier Gear. They can be configure a bunch of different ways. They kick ass and reasonably priced.
-Green.
Link Posted: 8/3/2008 7:12:42 PM EST
A while ago I won a chest rig at another forum, a SpecOps Brand M.O.U.T. Rig.

Linky

I don't have enough experience to say that it's the greatest thing out there, but for my intended use, it's seems like a solid setup.

It's setup for 8 USGI AR mags, but using PMAGS, I can get 6 in and still latch it. 4 seems to work better still.

Either way, I figure for the most likely types of SHTF, 4 mags in a chest rig, and one in the gun is a pretty solid setup. I also have a couple of surplus 3-mag pouches that I could run as well, if need be.
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