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Posted: 8/2/2016 1:21:09 PM EST
Been contemplating posting one of these threads for a while, but if nothing else, it will serve to document how I did some of these projects in case I ever have to repeat them.

Backstory:

With my change in employment in early 2015, we sold our house north of Raleigh, NC, and in doing so, fulfilled a long list of "wants" with the new place. We had originally talked to a couple of custom builders that would have come in at the top of our price range. We had eyed this house since the beginning because it had a few things we wanted (county taxes, no HOA, >10 acres) but with the closure of our previous house, we sat down with the builder we had selected, went over options and walked him over the site. I was ok with the price, but it was going to be 9-11 months from July of 2015, and we decided to pull the trigger on this house instead. We closed in August, about three weeks from the day Im posting this.





Particulars on the house are:

Constructed in 1999 by a custom builder
11.7 acres, large L shaped lot
2900 sq ft house with 400sq ft finished bonus above the garage
Well water, septic sewer, propane gaspack backups for the heatpumps
Approximately 8 acres can be mowed with a zero turn, the remainder requires bushhogging
30x40 steel building, aka "the barn", which could use some TLC
18x36 in ground pool

A couple of other photos of the house and surrounding land.






I have a LONG list of projects.

First things first, over the past year, Ive already knocked out a few things, including:

Garden plot:


It produced 74qts of green beans, 15qts and 45pts of pickles, 20lbs of squash and 30lbs of zucchini this year. Not bad for a first year virgin plot with limited to no preparation, eh?

Aside from that, I cleared a big chunk of undergrowth for where I currently have the trailer and implements parked now, but it requires further work. I also had gutters hung on the barn to hopefully move water away from the foundation when it rains, but that also requires further work.

Internally to the house, I pulled the propane water heater from an upstairs closet, and replaced it with an electric that now resides in the garage. Doing so gave me the abandoned drain pipe that I used to pull cable/ethernet into the closet which is now my IT closet/ammo fort. The unexpected bonus from that job was finding out the eave behind the closet was open since the closet was vented to the eave, so I successfully knocked the one stud out and built a false wall/trap door there. No pictures of it at the moment, but it opened up about 60 sq ft of storage space that we will use for holiday items or whatnot.

So, at this point, my outdoor projects are:

1. Poison oak/poison ivy eradication. I have a thread here, but Ive been burning through some Round Up/Crossbow trying to knock this out. The thickets are overgrown with it.
2. Leveling/graveling/excavating a parking pad behind the barn for RV parking
3. Leveling/graveling a smaller parking pad in the woods for trailer/dolly/implement storage
4. Expansion of the garden plot over the fall/winter
5. Generator inlet to main power panel
6. Deer stand construction/location
7. Various smaller landscaping projects that my wife wants to do (hence being at the bottom of the list )


A couple of other "to do" items include:
1. Security system of the DIY nature
2. Camera system to monitor the premises
3. Spray foam/sealing of the barn. The current insulation is in bad shape and there are lots of condensation issues.
4. Electrical build out / storage build out in the barn, preferably with loft. Once the spray foam is done, Ill tackle that.

Current equipment in hand:
1. New Holland Workmaster 40 with fresh fluids and filters at 260 hours. FEL, box blade, 5ft rotary cutter, and loaded rear tires.
2. Suzuki Eiger 400 4x4 atv with yard cart
3. Husquvarna MZ-61 ZTR, Husky weedeater, backpack blower and 450 Rancher chainsaw

Stuff that I would like to acquire in the near future:
1. Disc harrow. I used a rototiller on the garden this year, but at $800 vs $2500+, Im having a hard time justifying the cost
2. Backup generator
3. 2 row plow

I suppose with the weather cooling off, its time to get started on some more outdoor projects huh?

Link Posted: 8/2/2016 3:32:45 PM EST
Very nice looking place. That will keep you busy for awhile. With the house in good shape it frees you up to do all the hobby items.

Fall is coming, so you might want to start bumping those items up to the top. Deer stand locations should be scouted and built this month, especially if you plan on doing any bow hunting. Deer will notice the stands and change their habits. Fall is also the best time to plant things such as grass, some garden items such as onions and garlic, and berry plants. I'm sure there is more that should be planted, I'm just not aware of them yet. I have a new place of my own that I'm trying to wrangle before fall, it has major house problems plus the land is all over grown. It will be a hard push to get the fall garden in place just because the house problems are the priority. One thing our places have in common is poison ivy, it covers my entire place. One tree has it growing 30 feet high with 3" vines!


The front of you place looks like a place I came across here. It looked about the same size as yours from the front but the listing has it at 6,766 sqft!!!! So if you want ideas of what you can add, here you go. http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/KY/2131128213_zpid/24_rid/38.143198,-85.073361,38.079852,-85.150094_rect/13_zm/ The interior of this house is amazing; however, all the antiques in the house are actually modern reproductions according to a friend of mine who has forgotten more about antiques than I will ever learn in my life time. If only had the $2 million the property will probably sell for.






What you can't see from the front is the 3,000 sqft addition directly behind it.






Link Posted: 8/4/2016 3:00:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Very nice looking place. That will keep you busy for awhile. With the house in good shape it frees you up to do all the hobby items.


View Quote

Thanks!

The house was well cared for on the inside, but there are a few things we would like to do/change. Everyone paints to suit their taste, but major items are kitchen and master bath remodels. Those are on the "5 year agenda".

This weekend, however, will be spent fixing the gravel drive. Over the past week, weve had roughly 9 inches of rain that have dug a foot deep trench at the end of the driveway and washed gravel about halfway across the road. Time to break out the tractor and box scrape.
Link Posted: 8/5/2016 12:53:49 AM EST
Very nice place Cucamels! Congrats! Your taste is very similar to mine both in look size and scope. I built mine in 98 on what was originally 5.5 acres of swampy ground but we made lemonade out of lemons and put about a 3/4 acre stocked pond in the low spot to take the water and used the fill from it to build lifted pads for the house and a 120'x40' guest house/horse barn/shop. And I love it. Since then I bought 6.5 more acres next door that we grow hay on for the horses and during the warmer months (April-Oct) my Mom comes up from Pinehurst NC and lives with us. She's a big help because not only does she help with the horses but she is a big time gardener and maintains a big garden here. and this year she is growing some fantastic pickling cucumbers for me. But it isn't just her. My neighbor (who I went to school with) is doing the same thing (she runs a small organic vegetable farm) and I am completely running out of canning jars! It is a terrible problem to have!

The veggies are on fire around here right now and the hay is too. Which is great, but boy this place can be a handful! Better get ready for all the things you want to do!
Link Posted: 8/5/2016 7:45:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:10:07 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
Mother nature forced my hand on driveway repairs tonight. 6" of rain in just shy of 2 hours.

This is tame. Up the road, of course about 25ft from where the state maintenance ends and it becomes private road, the asphalt is washed away. Talked to the neighbor tonight while I was out on the ATV, we are going to take the tractors up there tomorrow and dig down to place a drainage pipe, then backfill it and wait for the LOA to have it repaved this week.











Link Posted: 8/6/2016 1:19:57 AM EST
Very nice looking property. Tagging for updates.
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 3:09:47 AM EST
Beautiful home!
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 9:20:25 AM EST
Gorgeous place!
Link Posted: 8/6/2016 7:20:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:26:40 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
Thanks guys, appreciate the complements. Here's how I spent today.
Before:














After:






Took quite a few hours to get it scraped level and fill in where it had washed. Some of the spots only have a gravel bed that's 4ish inches deep, so a load of gravel this fall has been added to the "to-do" list.


The bigger concern right now is a culvert up the road from us. I'll try to grab a picture tomorrow, but it sank about 2 feet overnight. Separate from the other section of road that washed out, that issue has been resolved and is waiting for asphalt currently. This is a drainage culvert and is threatening to take the road with it if it collapses.


Off to pop a few rounds off in the backyard!
Link Posted: 8/13/2016 6:02:29 PM EST
Subscribed!

Great looking place OP!
Link Posted: 8/14/2016 7:03:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:29:32 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
So, how about an update?


Friday night, we had a community meeting of all the homeowners in the LOA. Land Owners Association, which is unincorporated, meaning we can't force people to pay their dues. To date, that's not really been an issue.


The good news is, I'm now the president.


The bad news is, my first order of business is to save the road from collapse. Photos below.


4 separate quotes, all of which are $400-$500 to get an excavator into the creek and see what's there. 3 of the 4 said to dig out around the pipe, backfill with riff raff, then top with dirt. The fourth guy wanted almost $8k, at which point we kinda tuned him out.
























Couple of pics from the other night. Watched a storm line march across the lake in a solid sheet of rain with a rainbow behind.



Link Posted: 8/15/2016 6:59:57 PM EST
Riprap

You may want to bury riff raff but it's not legal












Link Posted: 8/15/2016 8:42:36 PM EST
Touche.
Link Posted: 8/16/2016 11:33:37 AM EST
Nice looking place. Tagged for updates.
Link Posted: 8/17/2016 7:45:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By _Matt_:
Riprap

You may want to bury riff raff but it's not legal

View Quote

Don't call and ask for a tri axle load of "the biggest rip rap they have" either. They will show up with a tri axle with a single piece of rip rap in the back, and the truck will be at capacity
Link Posted: 8/17/2016 9:24:33 AM EST
Nice setup OP. If you don't mind, what county and what are you doing for Internet?

Sudboy
Link Posted: 8/17/2016 10:55:46 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sudboy:
Nice setup OP. If you don't mind, what county and what are you doing for Internet?

Sudboy
View Quote
Forsyth.

We have TWC out here, and CenturyLink. We use TWC because for $35/mo, it does everything I need and I own the modem.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 7:41:06 PM EST
Been quiet lately, other than the grass growing like wildfire.

I sprayed the 2017 garden plot with round up tonight, and Ill bush hog it this weekend and plow it within the next week or two. The plan is to disc in some mulch and fertilizer a few times over the winter. We did a 40x50 this year, but next year is going to be a 200x50 with more of a focus on staples that we eat a lot of.
Link Posted: 8/23/2016 9:01:04 PM EST
Have you planned your garden yet and figured out what you should plant in the fall? Bulbs (onion, garlic...) and berries do best planted in the fall is what I hear.
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 7:39:27 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Been quiet lately, other than the grass growing like wildfire.

I sprayed the 2017 garden plot with round up tonight, and Ill bush hog it this weekend and plow it within the next week or two. The plan is to disc in some mulch and fertilizer a few times over the winter. We did a 40x50 this year, but next year is going to be a 200x50 with more of a focus on staples that we eat a lot of.
View Quote


Right now I'm mowing our yard every 4 days and it's not often enough. Looking forward to a new ZTR next year!
Link Posted: 8/24/2016 5:47:25 PM EST
No fall garden for us.

Today doesn't seem to end. Got a call about the culvert posted above. Inner pipe is basically rusted out. No clue where all the water is coming from. I'm going to do a thorough inspection Saturday with some assistance, but it's not looking good.
Link Posted: 8/26/2016 8:17:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:31:54 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]



Went and fetched the bush hog today after noticing it looking like it was beating the grass to death in the spring. My dad was happy to lend an extra set of hands, but the blades are in poor shape. We sharpened them as much as we could, but I'll be on a hunt for a set of blades for spring.
Link Posted: 8/26/2016 11:40:10 PM EST
Great thread! Nice spread op!
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 5:07:44 PM EST
Nice place!

Your thread and Pavelow's makes for some cool reading.

Get an orchard started!
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 5:47:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
No fall garden for us.

Today doesn't seem to end. Got a call about the culvert posted above. Inner pipe is basically rusted out. No clue where all the water is coming from. I'm going to do a thorough inspection Saturday with some assistance, but it's not looking good.
View Quote


Sounds like it time to replace the culvert.
Link Posted: 8/27/2016 5:48:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/cucamelsmd15/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160826_132839979.jpg

Went and fetched the bush hog today after noticing it looking like it was beating the grass to death in the spring. My dad was happy to lend an extra set of hands, but the blades are in poor shape. We sharpened them as much as we could, but I'll be on a hunt for a set of blades for spring.

View Quote


Nice tractor! Sharpening blades on a bush hog is a about a once a decade thing
Link Posted: 8/28/2016 7:19:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:33:04 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:



Sounds like it time to replace the culvert.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:

Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
No fall garden for us.

Today doesn't seem to end. Got a call about the culvert posted above. Inner pipe is basically rusted out. No clue where all the water is coming from. I'm going to do a thorough inspection Saturday with some assistance, but it's not looking good.


Sounds like it time to replace the culvert.

Thats the direction we are leaning. At least, replacing as much of the pipe as we can. I got brave and crawled about 6 ft into the pipe to see what was up, and I think if we support the pipe with rip rap, then fill on top with 2-3ft of rip rap with gravel thrown in to basically lock the pieces in place and then backfill with dirt, thatll be a permanent solution.

I met with a few guys who live close, and after talking about the culvert, the discussion turned to the road and what it would take to get the state to take it over. The honest answer is, I dont know. We are going to talk to the DOT Area Engineer and see. My guess is they would take over the "main" private road, but the southern/northern ends they probably wont, because its only driveway width there. We will see.




Now if youll excuse me, theres cows that need watching and beer that needs drinking.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 7:54:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:34:07 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]



Groundhog #3 this year.

It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is my job to arrange the meeting.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 8:03:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/cucamelsmd15/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160829_183144765_HDR.jpg



Groundhog #3 this year.


It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is my job to arrange the meeting.


View Quote


Nice! They can be destructive little bastards. I'm up to 3 raccoons this year. They are destroying the bird feeders and suet cakes.
Link Posted: 8/29/2016 9:06:19 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2016 5:01:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:


http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj240/cucamelsmd15/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160829_183144765_HDR.jpg



Groundhog #3 this year.


It is God's job to judge the terrorists, it is my job to arrange the meeting.


View Quote
Nice, get some!
Link Posted: 9/8/2016 7:56:08 PM EST
Got wind of a 250gal diesel tank for the low low price of free today. Electric pump with filter...

Why is this a bad idea for me?

I go through, on average, 50-75 gal of diesel a year. With increasing the garden size, that may go up.

Should I?
Link Posted: 9/8/2016 8:49:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Got wind of a 250gal diesel tank for the low low price of free today. Electric pump with filter...

Why is this a bad idea for me?


I go through, on average, 50-75 gal of diesel a year. With increasing the garden size, that may go up.


Should I?
View Quote


Absolutely. Be aware most fuel companies will not fill it if it is located indoors. Be sure to add a good additive to prevent bacteria growth for long term storage.
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 5:16:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/12/2017 6:39:40 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
So, with the spray foam of the barn pending at the end of this month, preparations for that have begun in earnest. Unfortunately the barn, while having good bones, hasnt been that well maintained and has a few issues that need resolved.








This was after a fair bit of reorginization/tossing of crap.


And with all the toys in:








Now for the issues:

Insulation is obviously coming down with the spray foam happening. But, I found multiple rats nest in it today, plus multiple nest in boxes and my damn toolbox.


The main issue is this:






The siding isnt sealed to the pad, and that needs to be rectified prior to spray foam. My initial thought is to buy a few rolls of this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Amerimax-6-in-x-50-ft-Aluminum-Roll-Flashing/3032677


Fold it in half to make an L shape, a line of liquid nails on the concrete and then self tappers from the outside to hold it. A piece of gorilla tape over the top or the like to keep the spray foam from blowing through.

Or something like this:

http://www.lowes.com/pd/Peel-Seal-Instant-Waterproof-Repairs-6-in-x-25-ft-Aluminum-Roll-Flashing/1018733?cm_mmc=SM_FB+-_-LumberAndBuildingMaterials-_-SpecialtyMetals-_-1018733%3APeel_&_Seal&CAWELAID=320011480005823699&kpid=1018733&CAGPSPN=%7Bifpla%3Apla%7D%7Bifdyn%3Adyn%7D


Basically just needs something for the spray foam to hit and not blow through, and to keep bugs/rodents out. Thoughts?


Theres another issue that needs to be dealt with. I fixed part of this when I added the gutters, so this is finishing the job more or less.

This is the side of the barn facing west. As you can see, the hillside washes right into it.








Theres about an inch of pad above the dirt in this photo, so every decent rain, it washes into the barn.






This is the side facing east. Its been washed out as well and the pad is unsupported.







My initial thought is to do a three sided french drain and drain it to the east side, then backfill the east side with gravel up to the bottom of the siding. Set the drain about 6-8" deep and cover it with gravel and call it a day.




Last issue is the floor.










I think once the foam is done and its not getting wet, Ill look at renting a scrubber for a weekend. Its concrete, so I could do the epoxy treatment after that, but at that point, Im looking at late fall/early winter in NC, so the drying time becomes longer. Logistically, Id have to store stuff in the attached garage, which isnt a huge deal.
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 8:52:36 PM EST
I would just pressure wash and scrub and then deal with stains as they come (and they will!) As welding and paint and equipment and other projects come, who wants to worry about scuffing it up or burning it?
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 9:03:13 PM EST
So, one of the issues right now is that it's so smooth, when it's wet, it is like glass. I sported a black bruise on my hip for a month after this winters snow storm to prove it. There are other times though where I've slipped but just haven't fallen. So either way, that definitely has to be dealt with.
Link Posted: 9/11/2016 10:40:49 PM EST
Well in that case I amend my statement as certainly some sort of surface treatment is needed. Ouch! Glad it wasn't worse.
Link Posted: 9/12/2016 7:33:57 PM EST
Separate from the barn issue, and with winter coming, its time that I start to revisit this issue.

Background:
•HVAC is original to the house, going on 17 years old now. Two of the units are in good shape. One requires some annual maintenance (usually a pound or two of R22 to keep it going for the year).
•Upstairs HVAC (which requires maintenance) is about 1/2 ton undersized based on my back of the napkin math and evidenced by its all day operation when the temperature gets hot
•Current backup sources for the heat pumps with the exception of the bonus room (separate system) are propane gas packs
•Our location does not (and will not) have natural gas service despite being 3.5 miles from the local power plant as the crow flies (more on that in a second)
•Vented gas log insert on propane

My initial thoughts are as follows:

Updating the HVAC to current heat pumps will net me better performance into lower temperatures. Our current switch point to propane is set at 25*F. During the winter storm last year, we consumed about 1/3 of a 330 gal tank over the course of a few days due to outside temps. I found out the switch point when I was roused from bed by a very chilly 3 year old when the upstairs unit never switched. Needless to say with the upstairs at 52*, I fixed that issue post haste. On our current installed 200A service, my panel is absolutely full. In fact, Im actively looking to convert some breakers to double stack to install a backfeed breaker for a generator inlet. Either way, I dont have an option of electric backups on the current 200 amp service.

Basically as I see it, I can do geothermal or keep the propane backups. Updating to newer heat pumps means the propane SHOULD run less, and I can keep it for a generator and gas grill. That said, its expensive comparatively speaking. At $2.00/gal delivered, and compared to our electric rate of 9.5c/kwh, an all electric setup would be cheaper long term. One of my cost savings measures earlier this year was to move the water heater to electric which ate up the last to slots in the breaker box.

Going back to the natural gas question, the local utility has publicly stated that other than the power plant (who, coincidentally just acquired the local NG company), they dont intend to pipe it anywhere else because the population density simply isnt high enough.

Long term, I think updating the HVAC to the highest SEER units available with the best low temperature performance heat pumps will net me the lowest overall bills. The bonus to keeping the propane backups is that in the event of weather related disaster in the winter, and knowing we are WAY down the list in terms of priority, I can at least have heat in the house with a generator to turn the fans.

Do your worst ARF and poke holes in the plan.
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 6:10:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Separate from the barn issue, and with winter coming, its time that I start to revisit this issue.

Background:
•HVAC is original to the house, going on 17 years old now. Two of the units are in good shape. One requires some annual maintenance (usually a pound or two of R22 to keep it going for the year).
•Upstairs HVAC (which requires maintenance) is about 1/2 ton undersized based on my back of the napkin math and evidenced by its all day operation when the temperature gets hot
•Current backup sources for the heat pumps with the exception of the bonus room (separate system) are propane gas packs

•Our location does not (and will not) have natural gas service despite being 3.5 miles from the local power plant as the crow flies (more on that in a second)

•Vented gas log insert on propane



My initial thoughts are as follows:


Updating the HVAC to current heat pumps will net me better performance into lower temperatures. Our current switch point to propane is set at 25*F. During the winter storm last year, we consumed about 1/3 of a 330 gal tank over the course of a few days due to outside temps. I found out the switch point when I was roused from bed by a very chilly 3 year old when the upstairs unit never switched. Needless to say with the upstairs at 52*, I fixed that issue post haste. On our current installed 200A service, my panel is absolutely full. In fact, Im actively looking to convert some breakers to double stack to install a backfeed breaker for a generator inlet. Either way, I dont have an option of electric backups on the current 200 amp service.


Basically as I see it, I can do geothermal or keep the propane backups. Updating to newer heat pumps means the propane SHOULD run less, and I can keep it for a generator and gas grill. That said, its expensive comparatively speaking. At $2.00/gal delivered, and compared to our electric rate of 9.5c/kwh, an all electric setup would be cheaper long term. One of my cost savings measures earlier this year was to move the water heater to electric which ate up the last to slots in the breaker box.


Going back to the natural gas question, the local utility has publicly stated that other than the power plant (who, coincidentally just acquired the local NG company), they dont intend to pipe it anywhere else because the population density simply isnt high enough.


Long term, I think updating the HVAC to the highest SEER units available with the best low temperature performance heat pumps will net me the lowest overall bills. The bonus to keeping the propane backups is that in the event of weather related disaster in the winter, and knowing we are WAY down the list in terms of priority, I can at least have heat in the house with a generator to turn the fans.


Do your worst ARF and poke holes in the plan.
View Quote


How are you calculating that electric will be cheaper long term? Based on those numbers and an assumed 95% efficient propane furnace I am showing propane is $0.50 per 100,000 BTU cheaper.

I would go with new higher SEER AC units and a higher efficiency heat pump with propane backups:
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 8:30:06 AM EST
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 8:41:30 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.
View Quote


Looking at the LP market, the US should maintain low-cost LP for a while. We've got lots and lots inside the borders, and it's not really cost-effective to ship across oceans yet.

Your local utility isn't delivering NG because there's no profit in it for them due to the low cost per CF. I'd go with LP and remain optimistic that NG will become available in the future, but bear in mind that the break point the utility has may not be what you want.


Electric heat doesn't do anyone any good if you lose power, and have to run on genset. I have a similar dilemma at my home, but my alternative is to heat with wood and just run the wood furnace fan while on generator.
Link Posted: 9/13/2016 12:33:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.
View Quote


I would hedge on maintaining cheap LP longer than cheap electric. Generator should run a backup propane unit but it will take a big one to run resistance heating elements.
Link Posted: 9/14/2016 7:28:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/14/2016 7:29:25 PM EST by cucamelsmd15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:



I would hedge on maintaining cheap LP longer than cheap electric. Generator should run a backup propane unit but it will take a big one to run resistance heating elements.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.



I would hedge on maintaining cheap LP longer than cheap electric. Generator should run a backup propane unit but it will take a big one to run resistance heating elements.

Yeah, thats pretty much where Im at. Fans only draw a couple of amps. Propane draws nothing. Heating the house for a couple of amps? Sure.

Ive pretty much decided on something like an 8kw genset. I can run pretty much any of the lights (mostly LED/CFL that have minimal draw), but the big items are the fridge/freezer and deep freezer. HVAC fans after that. It would take a minimum of 15kw for me to run the well pump, and 8kw seems to be the breakpoint of "affordable" vs "outrageous" in terms of cost.

Edit: Oh, the one point I glossed over throughout all of this... our gas logs are vented. Which means a GIANT chunk of those btus go right out the vent. Im seriously considering switching it out for a ventless insert.
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 6:05:01 AM EST
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:

Yeah, thats pretty much where Im at. Fans only draw a couple of amps. Propane draws nothing. Heating the house for a couple of amps? Sure.


Ive pretty much decided on something like an 8kw genset. I can run pretty much any of the lights (mostly LED/CFL that have minimal draw), but the big items are the fridge/freezer and deep freezer. HVAC fans after that. It would take a minimum of 15kw for me to run the well pump, and 8kw seems to be the breakpoint of "affordable" vs "outrageous" in terms of cost.


Edit: Oh, the one point I glossed over throughout all of this... our gas logs are vented. Which means a GIANT chunk of those btus go right out the vent. Im seriously considering switching it out for a ventless insert.
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.



I would hedge on maintaining cheap LP longer than cheap electric. Generator should run a backup propane unit but it will take a big one to run resistance heating elements.

Yeah, thats pretty much where Im at. Fans only draw a couple of amps. Propane draws nothing. Heating the house for a couple of amps? Sure.


Ive pretty much decided on something like an 8kw genset. I can run pretty much any of the lights (mostly LED/CFL that have minimal draw), but the big items are the fridge/freezer and deep freezer. HVAC fans after that. It would take a minimum of 15kw for me to run the well pump, and 8kw seems to be the breakpoint of "affordable" vs "outrageous" in terms of cost.


Edit: Oh, the one point I glossed over throughout all of this... our gas logs are vented. Which means a GIANT chunk of those btus go right out the vent. Im seriously considering switching it out for a ventless insert.


The government liquidation site has some pretty good deals on larger surplus gensets if you wanted to go that route. I'm hoping to put at least a 15kw backup genset on our house with an automatic transfer switch eventually.
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 3:53:35 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:

The government liquidation site has some pretty good deals on larger surplus gensets if you wanted to go that route. I'm hoping to put at least a 15kw backup genset on our house with an automatic transfer switch eventually.
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I've seen those on state and federal level sites. I always assumed they were ran until something started going wrong with them as they all look old and in rough shape. Do you know if they actually have life left in them?
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 3:57:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:

I've seen those on state and federal level sites. I always assumed they were ran until something started going wrong with them as they all look old and in rough shape. Do you know if they actually have life left in them?
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Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:

The government liquidation site has some pretty good deals on larger surplus gensets if you wanted to go that route. I'm hoping to put at least a 15kw backup genset on our house with an automatic transfer switch eventually.

I've seen those on state and federal level sites. I always assumed they were ran until something started going wrong with them as they all look old and in rough shape. Do you know if they actually have life left in them?


Depends on the unit. Some are ragged out and need rebuilt, some just went through a rebuild and are as good as new. Some are practically new anyway.
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 4:03:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:



Depends on the unit. Some are ragged out and need rebuilt, some just went through a rebuild and are as good as new. Some are practically new anyway.
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Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:
Originally Posted By SWIRE:
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:

The government liquidation site has some pretty good deals on larger surplus gensets if you wanted to go that route. I'm hoping to put at least a 15kw backup genset on our house with an automatic transfer switch eventually.

I've seen those on state and federal level sites. I always assumed they were ran until something started going wrong with them as they all look old and in rough shape. Do you know if they actually have life left in them?



Depends on the unit. Some are ragged out and need rebuilt, some just went through a rebuild and are as good as new. Some are practically new anyway.


I recently discussed this with a coworker who, while active duty USMC, was in charge of the gensets for his base in Iraq. He said they're pretty indestructible, and any monkey can work on them. Usually they're run for an hour a month unless they're needed.
Link Posted: 9/15/2016 5:21:52 PM EST
I believe the Fed is still offering a 30% tax credit through the end of this year for geothermal- ground and water... Some states offer additional incentives.
Link Posted: 9/21/2016 8:38:43 PM EST
Gas/diesel tank made it home tonight.

Will update later, but I'm thinking it might get used for storing gas instead of diesel.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 6:04:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Gas/diesel tank made it home tonight.

Will update later, but I'm thinking it might get used for storing gas instead of diesel.
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The obvious solution is to get one tank for each . You can get quite a bit of evaporation loss storing gas in an above ground tank.
Link Posted: 9/23/2016 10:08:28 AM EST
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Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:

Yeah, thats pretty much where Im at. Fans only draw a couple of amps. Propane draws nothing. Heating the house for a couple of amps? Sure.


Ive pretty much decided on something like an 8kw genset. I can run pretty much any of the lights (mostly LED/CFL that have minimal draw), but the big items are the fridge/freezer and deep freezer. HVAC fans after that. It would take a minimum of 15kw for me to run the well pump, and 8kw seems to be the breakpoint of "affordable" vs "outrageous" in terms of cost.


Edit: Oh, the one point I glossed over throughout all of this... our gas logs are vented. Which means a GIANT chunk of those btus go right out the vent. Im seriously considering switching it out for a ventless insert.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
Originally Posted By Pavelow16478:
Originally Posted By cucamelsmd15:
You're right. My fault in the comparison was not taking a direct btu to btu comparison. I was still factoring in the HSPF when looking at the electric.

Reworking the numbers, $2.68/gal of propane is the break even point.



I would hedge on maintaining cheap LP longer than cheap electric. Generator should run a backup propane unit but it will take a big one to run resistance heating elements.

Yeah, thats pretty much where Im at. Fans only draw a couple of amps. Propane draws nothing. Heating the house for a couple of amps? Sure.


Ive pretty much decided on something like an 8kw genset. I can run pretty much any of the lights (mostly LED/CFL that have minimal draw), but the big items are the fridge/freezer and deep freezer. HVAC fans after that. It would take a minimum of 15kw for me to run the well pump, and 8kw seems to be the breakpoint of "affordable" vs "outrageous" in terms of cost.


Edit: Oh, the one point I glossed over throughout all of this... our gas logs are vented. Which means a GIANT chunk of those btus go right out the vent. Im seriously considering switching it out for a ventless insert.


15kw to run a well pump? Something's not right there. How deep a well and what HP is the pump?
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