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Posted: 11/15/2012 8:25:29 AM EST
I am thinking about just having 2 calibers for home defense, carry, long term survival.

I am debating the above combinations and want some outside oppinions. I do have other guns.

So what do you guys think? My location will be Iowa. I understand quantity but also understand stopping power so have at it guys... .45 handgun and 12 gauge shotty or 9mm handgun and AR?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:35:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 8:36:59 AM EST by BlkTracker]
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
I am thinking about just having 2 calibers for home defense, carry, long term survival.



The old mainstay........AR, shotgun and handgun.



Why are you placing limitations on yourself with just two calibers?

Screw it.......use them all.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:41:46 AM EST
I have a .45 and AR... Now that will cause you even more of a conundrum.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:47:02 AM EST
Wouldn't give up the AR, but for survival, you can get a lot more food with a shotgun.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:49:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 8:50:39 AM EST by EXPY37]
If your a 'countryboy' youz suppozed to no the anser and be splainin tings to uz.




Link Posted: 11/15/2012 8:55:45 AM EST
Like I said I have all the above. Just wanted opinions on round count vs 1 shot one kill type of thing. What would you go to if you had to use it ? Burglary, shtf, animal attack, just whatever. Would you go with the guns that have 20-30rd capacities or with bigger caliber less capacity?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 9:00:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
Like I said I have all the above. Just wanted opinions on round count vs 1 shot one kill type of thing. What would you go to if you had to use it ? Burglary, shtf, animal attack, just whatever. Would you go with the guns that have 20-30rd capacities or with bigger caliber less capacity?


The correct answer is:

AR
9mm
No beans.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 9:08:13 AM EST
I'm a practical shooting game player... I shoot the 9mm and AR a lot more than any other calibers...I am much more familiar with them....the platforms (G34 and 16" mid with ACOG) are pretty highly refined... they are my choice...
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 9:23:26 AM EST
Add .308 and perhaps .300 Blackout <think quiet> ...... argument starts now.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 9:30:52 AM EST
The right tool for the right job. I personally see nothing wrong with having a few extras in there...
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:16:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 10:25:54 AM EST by cml2501]
Standardization is a MUST.
I've never seen anyone make a logical point to the contrary.

I have all kinds of guns and calibers because its fun, but I only stock up on 5.56 which is my personal defense and primary hunting caliber. (Got thousands rounds - all identical ammo, this is also the only ammo I practice with)

I can see the usefulness of a good 12ga for food acquisition; I’m in IL so lots of geese and duck.
I may stock more 12ga game loads

As for handguns I don’t stock much ammo – a handgun is just a backup weapon.
I keep a good deal of .45 around for practice, but I’d only grab a few mags if SHTF. I rather have more 5.56. I also carry a little backup .380 pistol but I’d consider that “disposable” post-shtf. I only would take the gun + the one loaded mag if I had to move.

I have no real opinion on .45 or 9mm; both good IMO, just pick whatever you're best with. I'm better with my .45 so I take that.

.22LR is another good ammo consideration since its so light and cheap; useful for SD and small game. But whatever you choose to do, standardize.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:34:46 AM EST
Id take 12 gauge and 9mm for home defense but thats just me
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:38:35 AM EST
Thanks cml2501 that's more of what I was looking for. I agree the rifle is your go to gun and that the AR for sure could fill multiple jobs. I like the bigger caliber for killing "whatever" before it kills me. The shotgun requires less maintenance but carrying a lot of rounds could be tough and you can only shoot a handful basically.

Which caliber handgun is more commonly used fighting over seas?

I'm set on .22 so that's all good. This whole discussion is more or less if you we're forced to bug out.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 10:57:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 10:59:08 AM EST by cml2501]
I agree, every scenario needs the element of being mobile.

My setup foot-mobile setup is simple:
8mags, 240rds, 5.56; 3 10rd mags for my 1911 and one 6rd mag in my .380.
I recently switched from my Glock 19, 9mm – they are both good guns, I just shoot better with my .45

My jeep-mobile setup is the same but with a lot more quantity of 5.56 and a bit more .45

I’ve seriously considered adding 12ga game loads, but it seems like too much stuff. I think I’ll keep .22, .308 and 12ga at my cabin (BOL), and not include it in a mobile setup.

Armed services mainly use 9mm (the M9, Berretta 92, which is in my opinion one of the worst pistols around). Marines are buying 1911s in .45.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:01:19 AM EST
9MM and 5.56MM are my votes.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:17:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 11:17:51 AM EST by cml2501]
I think I’ve considered every load out around, but I typically just come back to more 5.56 ammo.
A good AR is very low maintenance and so versatile. I have the pistols just for backup.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:34:50 AM EST
I agree. And my plans are much like yours. I'm trying to do everything on a low budget as I'm trying to make our life better prep more of everything and at the same time have nice things.

I am trying to train my SO on the platforms and prepping and she is fully on board for everything.

I had to sell a bunch of guns to fix some financial things so I'm looking for new ones. Shotgun I'm not worried about but I need to buy an AR again and a good handgun which I will want for CC and home defense and always as back up.

My dad has a Taurus 24-7 OSS tactical 45 that I really like but at the same time I also really like the m&p line.

For AR I'm not quite sure... I want a good rifle but can't go in debt over it either. M&P line any good? Also thinking rock river etc.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:37:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By ske714:
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
Like I said I have all the above. Just wanted opinions on round count vs 1 shot one kill type of thing. What would you go to if you had to use it ? Burglary, shtf, animal attack, just whatever. Would you go with the guns that have 20-30rd capacities or with bigger caliber less capacity?


The correct answer is:

AR
9mm
No beans.


Chilli has beans.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:43:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 11:49:08 AM EST by cml2501]
I’ve been there with the financial trouble. Totally understand.

As far as ARs go I’ve owned many; some run like champs, others are princesses, the only way you know for sure is to shoot it a lot over the years.

2 Guys on my team have Rock Rivers; this model seems really quite good for only $1,000
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=463
We use EOTech optics and optional magnifiers. (We all standardize on AA batteries for all gear too).

Price isn't everything. My dad's got some old no-name from the '80s that shoots great. I've purchaced high-end modern ones that we picky and easy to jam.

Link Posted: 11/15/2012 11:46:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By ShotTherapy_JR:
Originally Posted By ske714:
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
Like I said I have all the above. Just wanted opinions on round count vs 1 shot one kill type of thing. What would you go to if you had to use it ? Burglary, shtf, animal attack, just whatever. Would you go with the guns that have 20-30rd capacities or with bigger caliber less capacity?


The correct answer is:

AR
9mm
No beans.


Chilli has beans.


HA!

OP, M&P > Taurus. I have a 25 year old PT99 that I will never part with. In the last two years, I bought a 709 Slim, and a 669 .357. Both spent as much time being repaired as they spent in my safe. They are the only guns I've ever sold. This has been a public service announcement.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:01:08 PM EST
FAIL...

need a .22 in the mix if you are serious about long term.

A 5.56 AR, 9mm (glock or Ber 92) & .22lr are the trio...
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:03:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 12:06:16 PM EST by ske714]
Originally Posted By cml2501:
I’ve been there with the financial trouble. Totally understand.

As far as ARs go I’ve owned many; some run like champs, others are princesses, the only way you know for sure is to shoot it a lot over the years.

2 Guys on my team have Rock Rivers; this model seems really quite good for only $1,000
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=463
We use EOTech optics and optional magnifiers. (We all standardize on AA batteries for all gear too).


I have two RRA rifles. One, I bought complete for $1K as advertised. The other, I bought separate upper and lower from PK Firearms. I bought the second one as a bugout / HD rifle, and it has a couple of advantages. The RRA freefloat tubes are fairly heavy, and don't make much sense unless you're trying to build a tack driver. I bought the lightweight Wilson barrel with 1/7 twist so that I could shoot anything. PK Firearms will let you substitute anything on what they have listed. For example, I upgraded to a Young chrome BCG, and added a Hogue grip to the lower. Get the RRA two stage trigger. I just ordered the lower last Wednesday, and it was a my dealer on Friday.

ETA: I agree about the .22. If I could only carry one rife, I would have a hard time deciding between an AR, and my 10-22 with five or ten times as much ammo.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:06:33 PM EST
Yeah I have pretty much came to that conclusion over Taurus quality. I am pretty much set on purchasing the M&P handgun. I think it will be hard to conceal carry in the summer though but would much rather carry that then my Ruger LCP. I really like my dads stag arms with flip sights. Is the m&p sport Gtg or waste of money?
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:11:01 PM EST
I agree with .22 have more then a couple and that will be a for sure. Like I said this is more of trying to decide on the better caliber handgun for killing whatever. .22 gtg shotgun gtg AR need to buy one handgun need to buy.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:11:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
Yeah I have pretty much came to that conclusion over Taurus quality. I am pretty much set on purchasing the M&P handgun. I think it will be hard to conceal carry in the summer though but would much rather carry that then my Ruger LCP. I really like my dads stag arms with flip sights. Is the m&p sport Gtg or waste of money?


Conceal This
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:14:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/15/2012 12:15:05 PM EST by cml2501]
As far as killing whatever with a handgun have you looked into 44MAG?
That’s what I take backpacking, camping, and hiking.
It’s overkill for most things but can punch through most cover and can kill a bear. It also doubles your range over a 9mm or .45.

I had a Taurus which sucked; switched to the newish ultra-lite S&W.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 12:49:59 PM EST
While I hate the idea of limiting myself, I do understand that in a bugout situation you can't bring every caliber you own with you.

For me it would probably be 22LR, 9mm, and 5.56 if I had to choose. Even though I shoot a bit better with my full-size USP45s, I have far more handguns to choose from in 9mm than I do in either 45acp or 40s&w. 5.56 is ubiquitous and a no-brainer for me, since I have standardized on it for my 200 meter defensive carbines.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:05:09 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:16:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
I want a good rifle but can't go in debt over it either. M&P line any good? Also thinking rock river etc.


I'd rate the M&Ps with chrome lined barrels over RRA any day of the week.


Because of the chrome lined barrel? Because, although some don't, the RRA's discussed have Wilson chrome lined barrels.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:23:29 PM EST
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
Yeah I have pretty much came to that conclusion over Taurus quality. I am pretty much set on purchasing the M&P handgun. I think it will be hard to conceal carry in the summer though but would much rather carry that then my Ruger LCP. I really like my dads stag arms with flip sights. Is the m&p sport Gtg or waste of money?


As far as entry level ARs go, the sport is slightly better than the rest. Full floating barrel, better trigger and (IIRC) mil spec. It's gotten good reviews, as well. I believe nut-n-fancy did a youtube review of it.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:26:47 PM EST
Do yourself a favor and drop the "One shot/knockdown/hand-cannon" vs "Many shots/weaker/faster" thing. A shotgun or rifle will cause significant damage to whomever or whatever they hit, regardless of 5.56 or 12ga or .308 or whatever. A pistol caliber won't, doesn't matter if it is 9mm or .45acp, they all suck at causing damage, so pick the one that you can afford to shoot/train with and can shoot well. Likewise picking a caliber that gives you the most in the gun of your choosing would be best. Glocks/Berettas/M&Ps all hold 15+ rounds of 9mm in a full-sized handgun, those same guns hold 12 rounds or less in .45acp.

A good combo would be,
Intermediate rifle cartridge (5.56, 5.45, 7.62) stocked extremely well
Handgun cartridge (9mm, .40S&W, .45acp) stocked decently well
Shotgun (12ga only) stocked well
.22lr handgun and/or pack rifle stocked best of all.

No need to break it down to Shotgun vs Rifle. Both have their uses. But given the choice, on foot, Intermediate cartridge all the way.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:34:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 1:36:53 PM EST
At least 3...


Link Posted: 11/15/2012 2:52:38 PM EST
Thanks for all the advice guys. You have some great points and some things I need to think about. .22 is taken care of. It's a lot to think about. If there isn't much difference I will go with 9mm. So it looks like 9mm and new AR here soon. I know I can do most everything with 5.56. I guess if .308 was cheaper that's what I would do for more destruction ha ha.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 3:03:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
FAIL...

need a .22 in the mix if you are serious about long term.

A 5.56 AR, 9mm (glock or Ber 92) & .22lr are the trio...


yep, gotta have a .22 if long term. A suppressed 10/22 is about the perfect survival gun. Couple mags, tons of ammo. You need something more potent for serious problems, but the .22 will do everything if need be. .22 ammo will be currency post apocalypse.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 3:14:23 PM EST
Yeah that's exactly how I feel. I'm not worried about food. I'm worried about the bad guy. If shtf I guarantee MOST of the population will get nasty. That's who I'm prepping for. I am prepped for growing food and hunting for food and storing food and for any other shtf major or minor. Now I'm concerned about defense. Bug in no problem. Bug out - still figuring out...
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:13:43 PM EST
I like both 9 and 45 so I am no help there...

20G & 556 is my choice and if I had to pick one of those two and never look back it would probably be the 556.

Now if I am headed out on foot never to return give me a few bricks of 22lr, a 10/22 and handgun of my choice and I will be happy.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:30:18 PM EST
.45, 5.56 and 12 guage would cover everything from defense to taking game.
If you can only have two then I would take .45LC in a lever action rifle and a revolver and a 12ga.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 4:45:24 PM EST
Ponder defaulting to the .mil cartridges for your "base" weapons. There're some good reasons to own weapon systems in 9mm, 5.56 and .308. 12ga and .22LR are also a good idea.
Link Posted: 11/15/2012 7:15:51 PM EST
I would go 5.56, 9mm and 12 ga. Those are the basic 3. I substituted 7.62x39 for 5.56 for cost effectiveness and I am equally comfortable with each platform but rifle, pistol and shotgun are the main 3.
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 1:39:22 AM EST
.22
5.56
.308
9mm
12G
Link Posted: 11/16/2012 4:32:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 4:33:59 AM EST by cml2501]
Originally Posted By Amontgomery:
Do yourself a favor and drop the "One shot/knockdown/hand-cannon" vs "Many shots/weaker/faster" thing. A shotgun or rifle will cause significant damage to whomever or whatever they hit, regardless of 5.56 or 12ga or .308 or whatever. A pistol caliber won't, doesn't matter if it is 9mm or .45acp, they all suck at causing damage, so pick the one that you can afford to shoot/train with and can shoot well. Likewise picking a caliber that gives you the most in the gun of your choosing would be best. Glocks/Berettas/M&Ps all hold 15+ rounds of 9mm in a full-sized handgun, those same guns hold 12 rounds or less in .45acp.

A good combo would be,
Intermediate rifle cartridge (5.56, 5.45, 7.62) stocked extremely well
Handgun cartridge (9mm, .40S&W, .45acp) stocked decently well
Shotgun (12ga only) stocked well
.22lr handgun and/or pack rifle stocked best of all.

No need to break it down to Shotgun vs Rifle. Both have their uses. But given the choice, on foot, Intermediate cartridge all the way.


I agree with this guy.
With the following side notes :

1. If mobile I would never take a shotgun. Its only really useful for hunting flying birds.
Yes, its VERY effective with buckshot at short range; but if your mobile, your AR will do the job just fine. You’re better off with more AR ammo or more food and water when you take weight into consideration.

2. I don’t really consider pistol ammo capacity to be an issue, its just a backup gun or ultra-short range gun. If capacity is an issue for you, you may want to look at the FN FNP-45 which holds 15 rounds; or the FN Five-Seven which holds 20rds of 5.7mm (the ammo can be hard to find). I’ve got these and the Glock and ended up going back to the 1911 with a 10rd slightly extended mag. I’m just better with it.

3. I question the .22 for the same reason I question the shotgun. Sure its a great gun, sure the ammo is cheap and light, but its just not effective enough if mobile. Again I'd take more 5.56


Link Posted: 11/16/2012 6:41:05 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/16/2012 6:41:31 AM EST by basp2005]
I use two pistol calibers, 9mm, .45 auto, two rifle, 7.62x39, 5.56, and 12g, and .22lr as my primary calibers. 308 soon. It's good to have options.
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 11:12:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
I agree with .22 have more then a couple and that will be a for sure. Like I said this is more of trying to decide on the better caliber handgun for killing whatever. .22 gtg shotgun gtg AR need to buy one handgun need to buy.


No handgun is good at killing anything.

Link Posted: 11/17/2012 1:41:37 PM EST
9mm, 5.56, and .22lr (gotta have one of those).
Link Posted: 11/17/2012 3:46:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By BlkTracker:
Originally Posted By Countryboycarter87:
I am thinking about just having 2 calibers for home defense, carry, long term survival.



The old mainstay........AR, shotgun and handgun.



Why are you placing limitations on yourself with just two calibers?

Screw it.......use them all.

This and a .22 everyone neds a .22

Link Posted: 11/17/2012 3:57:11 PM EST
AR and glock 17, both with 22lr conversions!
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 8:14:57 AM EST
Honestly, with the best defense projectiles available, the gap between the main three or four self defense pistol cartridges has shrunk to such a degree that it makes less and less sense to argue about it. Pick one and go with it.

You'll absolutely want .22 in your stash, just too useful and quiet.

Will .556 take all the large game in your area with premium hunting ammo? If yes, then go with it.

12 ga is a no brainer. Remember that if you go with simply a cylinder bore HD shotgun it will be nearly useless for hunting. I'd much rather have a 22" interchangeable choke shotty that is pressed into HD service than to try to feed myself with a mossberg defender that won't take anything past 20 yards or so. Don't forget to stock up on high power, quality hunting ammo not just slugs and buck. just my thoughts.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 10:49:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 10:50:21 AM EST by NotIssued]
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
Honestly, with the best defense projectiles available, the gap between the main three or four self defense pistol cartridges has shrunk to such a degree that it makes less and less sense to argue about it. Pick one and go with it.

You'll absolutely want .22 in your stash, just too useful and quiet.

Will .556 take all the large game in your area with premium hunting ammo? If yes, then go with it.

12 ga is a no brainer. Remember that if you go with simply a cylinder bore HD shotgun it will be nearly useless for hunting. I'd much rather have a 22" interchangeable choke shotty that is pressed into HD service than to try to feed myself with a mossberg defender that won't take anything past 20 yards or so. Don't forget to stock up on high power, quality hunting ammo not just slugs and buck. just my thoughts.


while I agree with you for the most part, I'd argue the shotgun. I had decent results with an 870. 18" barrel, no choke, and rifled slugs. Able to Get 2-3" groups at 50m. The range I frequented didn't have farther at the time, and I ultimately sold it since I'm not a hunter. So at least short distances, the slugs are accurate enough. Having said that, I'd still take an AR over shottie if having to plan for long-term carry/survival/travel/defense.

But if talking about shot only loads, yes, the pattern quickly opened up.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 11:04:57 AM EST
If mobile, a 9mm and a 5.56 AR with a 22lr bolt / magazine conversion.

gives you a 22 for much less weight and pack space than either a dedicated upper or 3rd firearm.

If stationary, at a minimum add a shotgun to the above.
Link Posted: 11/18/2012 2:01:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/18/2012 2:06:08 PM EST by jcoffman55]
Originally Posted By NotIssued:
Originally Posted By jcoffman55:
Honestly, with the best defense projectiles available, the gap between the main three or four self defense pistol cartridges has shrunk to such a degree that it makes less and less sense to argue about it. Pick one and go with it.

You'll absolutely want .22 in your stash, just too useful and quiet.

Will .556 take all the large game in your area with premium hunting ammo? If yes, then go with it.

12 ga is a no brainer. Remember that if you go with simply a cylinder bore HD shotgun it will be nearly useless for hunting. I'd much rather have a 22" interchangeable choke shotty that is pressed into HD service than to try to feed myself with a mossberg defender that won't take anything past 20 yards or so. Don't forget to stock up on high power, quality hunting ammo not just slugs and buck. just my thoughts.


while I agree with you for the most part, I'd argue the shotgun. I had decent results with an 870. 18" barrel, no choke, and rifled slugs. Able to Get 2-3" groups at 50m. The range I frequented didn't have farther at the time, and I ultimately sold it since I'm not a hunter. So at least short distances, the slugs are accurate enough. Having said that, I'd still take an AR over shottie if having to plan for long-term carry/survival/travel/defense.



But if talking about shot only loads, yes, the pattern quickly opened up.


That was what I meant, yes you absolutely can get very good results with slugs from your typical HD shotty. I meant shot loads for small game or birds. It'd suck to have to watch geese fly over all day while all you had was 00 buck and an 18" barrel if you were starving. I guess you'd get a few but you'd waste a lot of ammo lol. Thanks for pointing that out though.
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