I'm looking at either the Yaesu FT-817ND or the Yaesu FT-857D for a portable, go-box, HF/VHF/UHF rig.

The FT-817ND is a self-contained radio with an internal battery pack but it limits to 5W.  The nice thing though is that it could be powered externally by a far smaller battery or a powerpole battery box if using an amp.  Theoretically, I could pack everything in a 30-cal ammo box but is 5W good enough?

The FT-857D is 100W which solves my power concerns but it also means that I'd need an external power supply such as a powerpole battery box.  Not a big deal if I'm close to a vehicle but definetely not something that I'd take backpack camping.  Is the 100W worth the loss of mobility compared to the FT-817ND?

Although I've mounted everything and the battery isn't there, this is what I have. Yeasu FT-857D with a LY-100 tuner and a Samlex 1223 PS. To the right is a Yeasu FT-1900. I'd go with the 857 just for the fact that you have 100 watts if you need it and it's not that much bigger than the 817. I run mine into a G5RV at the house and mini G5RV portable and I've talked all over the world. For DC power I have a 12v deep cycle AGM 32ah battery in a separate waterproof box with a charger added. I can also add a 40 watt solar panel if no AC is available for charging.  

If you want a small pack radio, learn CW and get a KX3.  You will do well with this setup in the long run.  Remember if you are doing QRP don't always say that you are operating QRP.  Some people will go out of their way to not respond to you if they have to try to hear you.  QRP is a game which can be a challenge.

If your go-box is more oriented toward making contacts especially in an emergency then a radio with at least 100 watts and a good antenna will make things easier on you.

A FT-857D with a digital setup plus a FT-8800R is what's in my go-box.

Thats a nice setup for a field day or drive-in campsite but I'm looking for something more compact.  I want something that I can take backpack camping, put in a canoe for a canoe trip or for field day use.  I know that the more I ask (1) radio to do, the more trade-offs there are.  Based off of internet weights, the FT-817ND, an autotuner, antenna wire and case would weigh about 5lbs.  Add a 12v bike battery for extended operation and the weight goes to 15lbs.  For a packable HF rig, that isn't bad.  For field work where weight/packability isn't an issue, I can switch to a deep cycle and run the radio and an amp (if needed).

I guess my bigger question is whether or not 5W on HF will be effective?  I haven't played with HF yet as my home location has plenty of VHF/UHF repeaters.  With an end fed hanging from a tree limb, can I reliably work HF with 5W.  The KX3 is basically the same thing for $400 more.  Add the amp, tuner, etc. and I'm looking at $2000+ for the KX3 vs. about $1000 for the FT-817ND.  Backpacking, the difference is weigh is negligible with a 5W difference in power.

If you aren't committed to CW or digital modes, 5W can be very frustrating especially doing any kind of phone work.  As far as I'm concerned, there are two options:

1.  Get the FT-857D that is flexible enough to do DC to daylight and only consumes 500mA on receive and have the option to work QRO when needed.  This will also allow you to work VHF and UHF at decently high frequencies and even satellites if you're so inclined and the HF reception improves a lot if you put in the optional filters.
2.  Get the KX-3 and an amp like the HF packer amp (or an RMItaly that is driven at 1/4 of its quoted max so it doesn't generate QRM from IMD) and have a 150mA current draw on receive only with a better HF receiver.  No VHF unless you buy a separate radio or the 2m module.

NO!  It's not.  

While QRP can be fun, if the chips are down you may want every bit of 100 w to make a contact.  You can
always turn a 100 w rig down to 5 watts, but if the other operator can't pull your signal out of the noise floor
it's not doing you any good.

Camping, backpacking, other fun uses for QRP, but not in a real emergency situation.

I wouldn't go with anything less than 20W out, minimum. I love my 817, but it's not the radio I count on.

This is the answer I was looking for. Given this, could and for how long would an FT-857D operate using a 12v DC gel cell or small motorcycle battery?  I know this is reduced compared to a auto deep cycle but still thinking portability.

I've worked digital 30 meters on a quiet night at 5 watts or less, but thats about it.  Probably CW would get out, but phone, not so well.

Something that I'm thinking about is 20 watt youkit. Specifically the TJ5A. http://www.youkits.com/#TJ5A_HF_20W_SSB_CW_Transceiver_Kit_and
If I end up with this one its going to be a camping play toy HF. (at least until I can prove it otherwise)
My go box will have a 100 watt HF radio.

If you get a plain 20m dipole you won't need a tuner as long as you operate on 20m only. Find a 9ah battery and turn the lights off the 857 less draw on the battery while listening.  The 857 draws 4A/5W 5A/10W 14A/50W and 21A/100W if I remember correctly.

I run a 857D on two, 7AH batteries in parallel, and get about two to three hours with heavy (50%) transmit.  I get about seven hours with low (5%) transmit.  I'm talking about 100 watts on SSB.  The meter shows .7A in standby and up to 18A when transmitting. WATCH OUT for low voltage during transmit.  The volt meter on the 857 will show 12.3 volts while listening and instantly drop to 11.8 when the mic is keyed.  Be sure to use batteries that supply the needed current.  

At the end of that time the batteries are pretty low at about 11.8 volts, dropping to 11.3v during transmit, and the radio starts griping.  I RARELY let it go that far because I don't want to risk anything in the radio.  If you run lower power, you'll get longer run times.  The whole thing weighs in at 22 pounds.  I wish I had a magic bullet, but running a 100 watt radio for very long requires a lot of battery power.

I have been thinking about getting 19.2V (or similar) powertools' lithium batteries and add a voltage regulator to 13V.  

Those batteries are designed for deep cycles and high amp draws, isn't it?   And they are usually relatively light for the power they store.

Would this provide for longer and better juice supply than those gel batteries?

Hard to beat an 857 for a do it all portable rig that is easy to carry and puts out acceptable power.  If you are going car to picnic table there are better options but lugging a 7200 and 2m rig up a mountain isn't exactly a pleasurable experience.

I've been thinking about a Youkits radio. I also want a KX3 but the youkits just make so much sense.

Having been turned on to the 857D by Gypat, I can say it is a very impressive little rig--very impressive.

Of course for a go box in a bag (backpack) you could also look at the PRC 320 thread--they can do what needs to be done, just not as easily.

Lipo batteries I get an hour per pair of 2500Ah at 100W SSB.

They are very light, but they do take a while to charge.

Perfect for SOTA.

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That Youkits looks clean and simple and a great first HF radio that can easily be shifted to portable use when you get a base station. I'm interested, too.

Is 5w enough? If you're using it for emergency use, probably not. If you're using it for fun, it's plenty. If you run CW, 5w is usually plenty. If you run SSB, 5w is doable, but a lot harder.

I've run QRP exclusively for the past few years, and have a had a lot of fun with it.


It's interesting to note that most covert radio communications during WW2 were conducted using 5-10 watt CW radios. Not saying that they wouldn't rather have had 100w, but it got the job done, and caused major damage to the enemy.


At this point in life my radio hobby is for fun and learning about what can and can't be done with low power. I'm not passing formal NTS messages or involved in MARS or anything like that. I enjoy to hike and operate portable so the FT-817 works really well for my applications. I used to have the KX3, but I missed having full HF-UHF coverage, and the more backpack friendly form factor of the FT-817, so I sold the KX3 and went back to the 817. If I'm hiking at 10,000ft, and decide to throw an antenna up in a pine tree in the 30 minutes between rain showers I don't want to worry about water getting behind the huge faceplate, or spend time screwing around with 100 different filter settings. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to have 100 different filter settings, but I didn't use them enough to justify it. I also chose the FT-817 over the 857 because it's smaller and lighter and uses a lot less juice. If I was operating from vehicle supported campsites or wherever, I would happily use the 857. But as soon as I have to hump that thing anywhere I'll take the FT-817 any day of the week. I've logged enough hours carrying PRC-150's and 25 pounds of extra batteries to realize that I would rather use that weight capacity elsewhere.

I'd be running phone so this is one of my concerns.

QRP does have interest with me.  It's challenging yet it's also a personal challenge.

The thread title might be somewhat misleading as I'm less looking for a true go-box than I am looking for a "take anywhere" HF rig.  If I were to setup a true go-box where I could put something on wheels, then I'd definitely run an 857D as I could simply wheel a car battery around.  However, that is something that I will not do if I'm having to pack everything in on a camping trip.

The YouKit is an interesting option and is the cheapest.  However, it also appears to me as a hobby kit to tinker with.

FWIW, while QRP SSB is harder, it's by no means not worth trying. Looking back over my logbook from the last 5 years, I have worked all states, and 30+ DX entities (Europe, Asia, South America, etc.)  using nothing more than 5 watts on SSB - and I don't spend a whole lot of time trying either. in the last 3 years I have spent on average <1 hour a week operating. When operating low power SSB, I can't always hit every station I hear, but I can usually hit the majority of them. Granted, I'm not a ragchewer and 5 watts usually sucks for roundtable conversations, but for making simple contacts, or passing short messages it works well. Just my $0.02.

Nudge.

Nudgety nudge.
Odd filter choices IMHO.

If you're not in a hurry and/or cash is tight, don't forget to check out hamfests or ask around the local club.



This last recent hamfest, I went looking for a cheap portable HF rig and walked out with a Yaesu FT-857 with the DSP board for $300.  The deals are out there, you just have to be patient.  Get there EARLY, like before the doors are supposed to open early.



Or you could be like Gyrpat and steal some poor old widow's KX3 for $5, or whatever the hell his story was

popov: "What about the ROUS's?"

stimpy: "Radios of unusual score?  I don't think they exist." /stimpy gets knocked flat by ancient 11 tube transceiver/

Easy there. I paid 50, hard earned, green dollaz. Why pay more? The radio was not even ass-sembled.
BTW, I still prefer to use my FT-857d over the KX-3. And...You megahurtz my feelingz. It's Gyprat (the Gypsum Rat), not Gyrpat.

You gave me hope...though mostly false...but still hope.

Yeah, sorry.  Was super tired and couldn't spell.  I'm suprised I got other words spelled correctly

 

Updated pics of my Fo Box.  Yaesu FT-857 and FT-1900. LT-100 tuner, Samlex 1223 PS, LDG SWR Meter. Coax, manuals, and antennas under the radios. I have everything needed to hook up to a car battery as well. I've talked to 66 countries in the 7 weeks I've had my General upgrade.  

Painting your Fo Box "Arfcom ORANGE" color will improve your radio's sensitivity and increase  battery capacity. I read this somewhere but have not tried it yet.

Get some end-fedz and you can ditch the tuner.

It comes as a no-soldering kit or preassembled.

The TJ5A also has some interesting options that, unfortunately, must be purchased bundled with the radio.



There's a Picassa slideshow that shows the bolt on box both on and off the radio.

I considered that one then opted for the KX3, I believe the KX3 gives me more for my money.

How does the Yaesu 857 compare to the Icom 706MkIIg?  Just preference or are there advantages/disadvantages?

The Icom 703 draws has the auto-tuner embedded but it's very low power and I agree that for an emergency we would like something "beefier".  

Prc104...

Agreed on all points...

The KX3 is a better radio in all respects except the one we're primarily discussing here.

Don't get me wrong, I'm lusting after a KX3 myself.  But its max power output (sans amp) is 10-12 watts.  The TJ5A is 20 watts out.

Go with a 100w radio for your go box. You can always dial down the power on it but the QRP rig can't dial up. External battery is a non-issue. A relatively small 10-12ah battery can go in the box with bigger/heavier stuff stored separately.

TJ5A doesn't have any sort of speech compression which means ALOT... So 3db more power 10 vs 20, but 10W with speech compression can sound like 20.... Speech compression makes a huge difference for SSB with an 817...

Also, everyone forgets, on INTERNAL batteries, the KX3 is a 5W radio... You need an external pack to get the 10-12W. Which adds bulk and weight.

Good info, thanks.